I'm new here

[djgothman]

I just wanted to say Hi to everyone and introduce myself.

I'm Mark. I stumbled upon a FSU dating service 2 years ago where I met a girl living in Kherson, Ukraine, who I'm finally going to meet. We've known each other almost 2 years, exchanged countless emails and chatted all this time and although it probably seems crazy to most people, I really think this girl might be the one. I never got very much encouragement from my peers or my family... most people think its all just a scam. I hope maybe there are others here that can help ease my uncertainty… the last thing I’d want is to find further discouragement for my decision to visit a country where I don’t speak the language and only know 1 person that I’ve only chatted with online for 2 years... and yes I’ve seen her live on camera – she’s real LOL. 

I worry about my trip. I try to estimate how much things will cost… wonder how I’m going to get around. I’ve done massive studying about the Ukraine and Russia but probably not as much essential information as its history and culture. I’ve been doing a lot of online research as I think possible… I’m even going to try and learn some phrases and the alphabet at least. I guess I’m really nervous about the whole thing.

Then, of course is the whole compatibility aspect. Will the relationship really work out? Is my girlfriend over there really being honest with me? She recently made herself clear that she has doubts I will visit, and yes… I’ve had to postpone plans more than once in 2 years… 4 times actually now... always due to financial problems i probably should have made clear to her. Her last letter ended in a sort of soft ultimatum that I better follow through with my plans to visit in December. I suppose in the true context of the letter, I perceived she has similar doubts to MY authenticity… like it is ME that is the dating scam. Of course I reassured her otherwise. In a strange way though, that comforted me. I don’t know, maybe because it somehow filled me with a sense of believability LOL.

I'm goth. It's the subculture I'm a part of but it's more of a course of philosophy for me as I've never felt truly a part of the mainstream. Alina is also a goth and that was a unique and lucky thing to find. We have so much in common in the way we see the world. I know many other female goths here in america but never has a relationship with ANY american woman worked out for me... goth or not. Alina appears to understand me well and I believe we will get along well. We have even talked about me DJ'ing for a show at the local goth event where she lives.

Lol… I’ve done a lot of rambling… I’m sorry.

Anyways thanks for listening… hope nobody flames my first post… it IS kinda goofy. 
Mark – DJ Gothman
http://www.myspace.com/djgothman

[Shadow]

No flames here, but you better visit her this time.
Not many women will wait two yers for their knight to arrive on their stallion, or turtle.

As for information about prices, the same amount daily you use in the US will keep you alive without problems in Ukraine. Most basic things are cheaper, as long as you manage to stay out of the expensive tourist traps.

As for doing a local show, I am sure many will be willing to see you perform. It might not bring in millions (or even hundreds) but you never know. 

[djgothman]

hello shadow. thank you for your reply
I'm definitely going in December... made up my mind on that. Alina is a special girl and after her letter I totally apologized to her and fully explained my situation why i needed to postpone travel plans. I hope she believes in me still.

The goth event is just for fun. I would never expect to make money for dj'ing. I have a ton of music to introduce into the scene and it always brings me happiness in others having fun.

I'm actually more of an outsider... more of a silent philosopher/scientist than a social butterfly or cassanova lover. Its something that scares me actually. I hope Alina will be able to understand me when i speak about something deep. I hope she will be patient with me. Goth people are generally outcasts... overly talented in some aspects, tragically deficient in other's.

[Ravens9273]

DJ

Nothing to fear. I spent 26 months talking to my wife before going over (not recommending 26 months of communication). To be honest I highly disagree with the whole aspect of visiting within 3 months of contact. I do not believe a real relationship will come out of a foot race with other Men as to who can get to the lady first.
Majority of the married members here had longer corespondance before going for first visit.
This lady has chatted with you for two years and has waited for you for two years. This is one of the best signs she is into you and she is the real deal. Considering your financial situation and that she knows this I do not see her as trying to use youl.
After 2 years you have developed a bond with this Woman. That bond will make your trip 100 times better had you visited her right away. That time has given you a much better advantage to succeed with her because she is not s stranger to you.
However at the moment she is concerned if you are real. She has proven who she is since she has waited so long for you. Now is the time you need to get over there ASAP. This is not an easy journey to take but the best part is you know you have a real aldy waiting on the other side for you.
At this moment I would bet your trip will be a success. She will watch out for you and help you get around so do not worry. Just go and enjoy yourself. You will have a blast and I am sure we would all be reading a successful trip report.
But it is your time to go. Have no fear. A 2 year wait says alot about the Woman you are communicating with. Now go get her.

Best of Luck.

[Ravens9273]

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[Ravens9273]

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Have no idea why my post showed three times. This is reason for error.

[Rina_G]

I agree with Shadow - not many women can wait so long - just one advice - come to her as soon as possible

[Faux Pas]

Welcome to RWD Mark!

Good opening description but, you left a few things out. How did you initially meet? How old are you both? I assume you are both close in age because you both seem to be into the Goth scene. That is something there is no way I could even begin to understand. Apparently you are both very young?

You probably have your cart well before the horse here in thinking she might be "the one". The only "the one" she is at this point is "the one" lady you are going to visit. Personal meetings many times do not come off as the person you know from long distance correspondence. You'll be putting much unnecessary pressure on the meeting and future relationship if you fully expect she is the person you've formulated in your mind as opposed to the person she actually is. Give her room and take some room for yourself. Leave all the possibilities open, even the one that she may not be "the one" or she may not even be into you.

Don't sweat the trip. After the expense it really is no big deal. A question does come to mind though, if it took you 2 years to afford this trip, when do you see yourself returning?

[djgothman]

Wow... quite a few responses already. It looks like i found the right messageboard to join. It's refreshing to find encouragement in my quest to be with Alina. Too many people would tell me it's just a dream that I chase. They weren't even gentle with their comments. Some even called me stupid and naive. I could go on for hours. I chose long ago that it is really only up to me to believe, nevertheless, the negativity I'm bombarded with always causes me to wonder.

Here is another problem I am having. I know Alina is busy in her last year of college. I know she works and takes care of her family in addition. During this past summer she mentioned she was out of town working at a decent job she found. The trouble is that she doesn't visit the agency as often to chat... maybe 3 times a month. This is the time when we really need to talk as December approaches. I don't want to seem impatient with her. I just hope she has not given up faith in my arrival. Perhaps she has met a new man? Perhaps she is avoiding me? Perhaps I'm over reacting as I usually do. It's tough to continue on admittedly blind faith.

I've recently become eligible to exchange personal information. Although I already know many personal things about her... lol even the street she lives on... I've never been able to have free and unmoderated contact with her. She has yet to visit the agency to authorize contact info exchange. I wonder if the agency has even informed her as they've claimed. I'm terrified to consider the implications of it all being a hoax. I've spent the last 2 years believing in the system... believing in her.

Can she really be so busy? Is she having troubles being able to visit the agency? I wonder about how the agency works. Are the computers limited and thus not always available to her to chat with me? Being from America, I'm used to always being online with high speed bandwith. I actually have 8 computers all networked and online all the time. Its hard to conceive of anything less as far as internet access than what I'm accustomed to. I plan to buy her one of those netbook computers. While it's a gift primarily, its more a necessary tool for our continued communication after I return to the USA. She's made it clear that she doesn't want me to spend so much money, but I don't think the $150.USD is a lot for what the gift offers the both of us. She's not very adept at computers and seems to have even less understanding of the internet.

I have so many questions like this... questions that could potentially burst my bubble of faith. I'm afraid to ask the questions I need to ask. It's more important to be informed than blindly proceed however it's frightening. Until now, I have never found a forum to offer me encouragement like here. I want to feel free to ask the tough questions. Im looking forward to hearing responses. Thank you all so far!

Oh, and I'm sorry I babble and ramble on so much. LOL

[Faux Pas]

Mmmmmkay.

If someone had told me 4 years ago that I would go to Russia and find a woman I wanted to marry, I would not only have called them crazy but, completely insane.

So you met this girl through an agency. Which agency? This part of your story is not exactly encouraging and may or may not be fraught with various "red flags" for caution.

This girl is a college student and you've communicated for 2 years strictly through an agency does not bode well. If she had the desire and you had the nads, you would would be communicating regularly without the agency. This smells a bit. No, she can't be THAT busy to only manage 3 communications a month. Has it been this way since the beginning? How much money have you spent at the agency to qualify for her contact info?

Hold any thoughts on a gifted laptop for the moment. Granted, her internet access is nothing compared to you and what you are use to but, unless she is imprisoned in some obscure village, she has some access to internet, as limited as it may be. Most FSU women in cities or involved with an agency has some access.

[Misha]

Too many people would tell me it's just a dream that I chase.

I've never been able to have free and unmoderated contact with her. She has yet to visit the agency to authorize contact info exchange. I wonder if the agency has even informed her as they've claimed. I'm terrified to consider the implications of it all being a hoax. I've spent the last 2 years believing in the system... believing in her.

Let me get this straight. You have been chatting with her via an agency for two years now, and you still have to get an e-mail address or phone number? Sorry, IMHO, the agency is leading you on. Here is my advice: forget her and go to a free Russian dating site (singles.ru for example) or at the very least a credible agency where you will be able to chat with women directly, without an agency. If you find someone who likes you, they will gladly give you an e-mail address, chat with you on Skype or other IM, and within a few weeks will give you a phone number where you can call them.

[docetae]

No good news.... You should not use system where you can not get direct contact. 100% of them are scam. It does not mean that your girl is not genuine, but probably, this is long time you have answers from Boris the employee of the month...and 2 years without phone or webcam ? You have built a dream. Be careful about the fall...

Do you pay to send her messages ? what is the name of the agency ?

[djgothman]

OK... well i figured there would be some positive responses and some negative... so maybe I'll back the train up and elaborate on my situation.

June of 2007 I began my search looking for dating sites... not all foreign women either. After sever denials of service of match.com and E-Harmony, and other hassels of typical internet dating, I stumbled upon Russianlovematch.com. Like all other dating services, I painstakenly filled out all the forms. I met a few women from the dozens of emails. After reading through hundreds of messages, one begins to recognize form letters and searches for the letters that are for certain specifically written. Along came a letter from Alina Vinokurova, a goth living in Kherson. She mentioned specific music and bands she liked... not a thing that someone outside the goth scene would know. At the time, I was already interested in another girl and was chatting with her. I soon realized Alina was a far better match for me. I've learned that the true stereotypes of the goth scene are the same all over the world. It trancends all other cultures and in fact is its own culture of the ones not accepted or comfortable in the mainstream. We started as friends... chatting and exchanging e-mails about music and our scenes. I know I was always chatting with the girl from the pictures because she is on live video. and I have tested her by asking her (subtly), to show me her black nail polish or give me a kiss or show me your dress, boots, hair... you get the idea... and she would comply on camera live. She uses a translator to chat as her English is not so good. Despite this, we have shared a life together for the past 2 years. We've talked about everything from our dreams and goals to the newest Funker Vogt album that a song reminds her of me. She was even there to console me when my mother had a heart attack and I had to take care of her through her reahibilitation. I was also there for her when her grandmother had a stroke this last June. She was a wreck... she also lost her puppy like the week before. She works to support her family. She goes to school, and she looks toward the future. She's a bright girl... and she's thoughtful on a level that has made me cry numerous times.

No I dont have her email address. I don't think Alina knows anything in the slightest about the scope of the internet or what it really is even. She's used the word photoshop in the context of her glamorshot pictures make her prettier than she is. Indeed, watching her on camera is less stunning than her profile pics... but she is for real and I feel this in my heart for I've seen it in her eyes and I've read it in her words. People tell me that I'm being too optomistic... naive... even just downright stupid. Maybe I am... probably I am.

Is the dating agency a scam? well, what is a scam? by definition, it would mean a service that does not deliver on what it claims. Russian Love Match has not failed me yet... not even on some issues I had with billing. It's simply a company trying to make a living providing a service that accepts no responsibility for the outcome. Maybe they overcharge maybe they dont. Have you seen the prices to join every single other dating service on the planet? Everybody has to live and make an income. I've done searches to ascertain the agencie's credibility and like everything, there are opposing OPINIONS.

How do we trust ANYONE in a world based on a monetary system anyway? I personally believe that Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes winners are all part of Ed McMahon's family. No I haven't ever been able to contact Alina outside her agency. It's not for lack of trying either. I've done the "sneak a message" into emails texts and even revised the .jpg files properties to include my contact info. LOL... I tried so hard to explain to her how to view it... I don't think she has much of a clue how to use a computer much less to manipulate files. She's actually asked me to teach her. I even sent her a package with photos and CD's, $20.USD for mailing, a disposable camera and stuff. I told her where it would be mailed and the approximate day she should go to the post office. She never got the package though and it came back to me. I never had her mailing address and I only knew she lived on Kylika St., and her last name.

So ok... that's my story. It's not all pretty. As for forgetting her and moving on... no way... nothing is stopping me from meeting with her now and after 2 years. She has been patient and now she is demanding I follow through with my plans... my promise. She deserves no less. Is she real? Well, I've already mentioned I see her on camera... I've even made slideshow albums from screenshotstaken  in quick procession. I put a slideshow widget on all 8 of my computers so I can always see her... and feel closer to her. Maybe she is in a bad agency but is true to me? That may be true also but what do I do about that? I deal with it and go through the system I need to so I CAN exchange contact info. Yes I could have fulfilled the requirements a year or more ago but I didn't. I've gone through hardship the last year that I'm finally free of. Now I DO have the money to travel... and I have the time... something that can be the most difficult thing to have.

I hope someone out there has something positive to say. I know I should be aware of scams... it's never bad advice even when you're in line at Starbuck's buying a latee. I can't say whether I'm going to be as active on here in leiu of some of the overly negative comments and opinions. I need to stay positive and believe in my heart. All I've had in my world for the last 2 years is that tightly wound string of hope. Without hope there is no future.

p.s. her t-shirt says Paradise Lost... a goth band

[Ravens9273]

DJ,

There is an Alina Vinokurova from Kherson on Facebook.

[Misha]

No I dont have her email address. I don't think Alina knows anything in the slightest about the scope of the internet or what it really is even.

I really, really, really doubt that a young woman in Russia, Ukraine or anywhere else in the world would not know what the internet is and what it does. Even if this were true, she certainly knows about the telephone. Have you asked her for a phone number? Have you asked as to whether you can talk on the phone?

[docetae]

sorry to tell you this, but all you describe is typical of agency scam.
even if she is with an agency, the first thing she would have done within very short time (1 month) is to give you her phone and ask you for your cell phone to exchange sms.

[Ravens9273]

sorry to tell you this, but all you describe is typical of agency scam.
even if she is with an agency, the first thing she would have done within very short time (1 month) is to give you her phone and ask you for your cell phone to exchange sms.

The problem is the service he used.
HRB does not allow contact info of any kind to be exchanged until a client has spent X amount of Dollars.
He just stated earlier he finally qualified to ask her for her information since he has finally spent the X amount of dollars over the past 2 years.

However this is without a doubt BS on HRB's part.
In their terms they explain this is done to make sure the Men are serious and the ladies properly know the Men who they give their information to. However it is funny how once a Man qualifies he can write a new lady that day and ask her for her information. Kinda blows that excuse out the window.

[docetae]

The problem is the service he used.
HRB does not allow contact info of any kind to be exchanged until a client has spent X amount of Dollars.
He just stated earlier he finally qualified to ask her for her information since he has finally spent the X amount of dollars over the past 2 years.

However this is without a doubt BS on HRB's part.
In their terms they explain this is done to make sure the Men are serious and the ladies properly know the Men who they give their information to. However it is funny how once a Man qualifies he can write a new lady that day and ask her for her information. Kinda blows that excuse out the window.

This is not too qualify to the man is serious. This is to get maximum of money from him. if the lady has genuine interest, she will manage to ask his phone number to exchange sms directly...
A woman who will go trough an agency to do this during two years has probably some money back from HRB.
So the best is has to do is to put everything on rewind and start from scratch on good basis. He will see the difference very quickly ...

[LAman]

DJ........what do you think you have spent for past 2 years communicating with Alina?  What with letters translated and now chatting( very expensive) with a girl that is like a 'puppet' for agency, since she does what they say with no real understanding of what may/may not be happening. I would not be surprised if girl was getting a commission, I have seen this. It is truely a minefield.


Someone mentioned earlier about taking time before meeting a girl( many letters). I am of the opinion that it should be do early in a relationship, usually within a 3 month period. I use the 80/20 rule.....20%  of relationship formed through letters/video and 80% formed after you meet. There is something that happens(chemistry/attraction) when you first lay eyes on each other.....what is it they say, physically meeting is like a million words!!!! How can you really know a person without meeting them? Actions, truely speak louder than words!!! 

[groovlstk]

Gothman,

You're at a point where you need to choose whether you want to take the red pill or the blue pill.

RWD is not a place where guys will blow sunshine up your butt - like most of us here, you probably have friends who are all-too-willing to do that to protect your feelings. This can be an invaluable source to you but at the same time it can also force you to confront some truths you may not be able to swallow.
 

[Faux Pas]

It's looking like Gothman didn't find the affirmation he was seeking and moved on 

[Shadow]

Lets hope that in December he will find what he is looking for.
I hope that either way he will tell us how it worked out.

[djgothman]

no... I'm still here and reading posts.

Please allow me to share my feelings.

I've place 2 years of "sweat equity" into this relationship with Alina... not to mention money and hopes and dreams. My FUTURE is based on my trip to Ukraine. Perhaps it is foolish for me to place so much faith in alina, but it's done. Everybody tells me it's a scam... and I DO mean everybody. It's not like like I can shrug it off and start looking again with no sense of grief and mourning.

My whole life has been a series of greif, guilt, saddness and disappointment. I suffer from long bouts of depression... something common to Goths. I'm at the end of what I can take... I've been through unspeakable tragedies and traumas my whole life. I've never known happiness.

Alina has given me that hope for a better future... to feel love once again... a sense of purpose and direction. She's inspired me... comforted me. She's given me the ability to see beyond the now and look to the future... a future where we will be together. You all here tell me it's a hoax and she is an illusion. Well, perhaps my whole life IS meaningless and I have no future. Perhaps I should overdose on that red pill and just end it all right now.

Yes, I was looking for support and encouragement. I didnt find it here... Ive never found it... never felt it, and now I have doubts whether ANYTHING is real. It seems to me that all hope is lost. I'm alone... I'll always be alone because fate has chosen to curse me with a life of darkness. I've gone back to sleeping 16 hours a day... no reason to wake... no purpose to live.

I wait with an open window on my computer to Alina's profile waiting for her to be in chat, but according to you, she's just scamming me. That's not the sense I get while chatting with her, but love is blind I suppose.

So now I don't know what to do. Dreams are crushed, hopes are gone... my future is dismal. Maybe I should just end everything like I knew I should have 10 years ago.

[Misha]

Perhaps it is foolish for me to place so much faith in alina, but it's done.

You can't change the past, but it is not too late to change your current actions.

It's not like like I can shrug it off and start looking again with no sense of grief and mourning.

And, they are likely right. My advice: find someone who will give you her e-mail, who will give you her phone number, who will communicate with you without agency interference. Trust me, if you do this, you will get over Alina pretty quickly  :evil:

My whole life has been a series of greif, guilt, saddness and disappointment. I suffer from long bouts of depression... something common to Goths.

Have you sought out professional help to address the depression? Deal with the depression, don't let being Goth (or anything else) be an excuse.

I've been through unspeakable tragedies and traumas my whole life. I've never known happiness.

We all have. It's called life. Still, get help to deal with the depression.

That's not the sense I get while chatting with her, but love is blind I suppose.

That is why unscrupulous agencies can make a lot of money. They give men false hope, and they are good at it.

So now I don't know what to do. Dreams are crushed, hopes are gone... my future is dismal. Maybe I should just end everything like I knew I should have 10 years ago.

Suicide is never the solution. Get help. Talk to psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor, minister, anybody. You have to address the underlying depression and avoid doing something stupid.

[BC]

djgothman,

Wanna chat?

Click on the chat link at the top of the page.

Think this link might work too.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/chat/flashchat.php