IP Tracing

[Sculpto]

I think you are right. I found few links in connection with Russian scam and Plano TX like this one http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:AxoG6PIelqMJ:www.romancescam.com/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D6%26t%3D20504+72.36.146.2&cd=3&hl=ru&ct=clnk

Both letters are sent from yahoo via the bat

Do I understand correctly that yahoo.com doesn't allow free services via smtp? So I am curious how they do that.

someone is paying for yahoo so they can have pop.. like I said.. i think there is a usa connection

[RussianWind]

if it points to the University of Yoshkar-Ola you can be 99% sure.

I remember couple of years ago they caught a big group of male students playing scam games in Yoshkar-Ola after one German grew thin for 26.000 euros. I thought they would get quiet. But easy money are easy money.

[JR]

Beware the BAT!

Here is an example of what the BAT looks like in an email header. This is forum a scammer about scammers. I found this person to be a scammer by using tineye to find her photos on the net then tracked them to several anti-scam sites. She (he) was pretty clever and used fairly personalized letters for about the first five then stopped responding to my questions. This got me to wondering and wondering lead to checking....


X-Originating-IP: [68.142.201.252]
Authentication-Results: mta569.mail.mud.yahoo.com from=yahoo.com; domainkeys=pass (ok); from=yahoo.com; dkim=neutral (no sig)
Received: from 68.142.201.252 (HELO omp413.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.201.252) by mta569.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:07:05 -0700
Received: (qmail 16231 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Sep 2009 18:07:04 -0000
Received: (qmail 28490 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2009 18:07:04 -0000
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Date:From:X-Mailer:Reply-To:X-Priority:Message-ID:To:Subject:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=aTNWG4tygwcS+4B/E+bumeem7Pqx/syNINBaH3NHJrHFDrbVr01d1iZetR5HQGbGOru9coFwRkYZePECxsH5Q4kfNyUI1NpK2G8kuvqRRGgb4twk/lecco9T37LKmXW6JokVwDl4r5nRNe33yP0MXiG8uCTu1L0wbRM0HpEWTIE= ;
Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.4?) (annokvane@99.41.244.142 with plain) by smtp117.plus.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 2009 18:05:28 -0000
X-Yahoo-SMTP: _6wL8dGswBA6ytvPMpF4ruAzhh6zCA--
X-YMail-OSG: vDWFzvwVM1n5kSSeEzA8V6wDSx0GME9TE6kQ58GVB2DFb57BosLB9_TQeKxY8q9lFuVhmsnghR yuC4kbRKl1yaaUmAoidf3lBjCcV4DjN4zKXcPIX1zYVIxC2ip7y98VWuzJLr0oEnShykoXhn7X uWCKpLE_6t2dh.jrewCsoMkemGD3h0Ia.yXv87GR1TOQLwLI5mksPxrhoYvd_rncw0ZvZnab14 Il0S0X6fo.o49kOdjs.wq.fHsEPA2yMKw6pDQfs19L8n8LB30-
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:07:12 +0400
From: This sender is DomainKeys verified
"annokvane@yahoo.com" <annokvane@yahoo.com>

View contact details
X-Mailer: X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0.1.33) Professional

Reply-To: "annokvane@yahoo.com" <annokvane@yahoo.com>
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)

[JR]

 I personally use it for 15+ years.

AH-HA!!!! I knew it! You're a SCAMMER ! ! ! !

[RussianWind]

Oh gosh! Finally

JollyRats, dear, wasn't it easier to use this way of checking http://www.google.com/search?hl=ru&rlz=1T4GGLJ_ruRU176RU176&q=annokvane@yahoo.com&lr= 

[XMan]

My gut reaction after this enormous waste of time and effort is that personals sites are pointless, unless you have unlimited time, energy, and dollars to weed through and find the diamond amongst the innumerable stones.  

Assuming there is a decent agency, go with that.  
At least you have SOME clue as to who you are dealing with (especially if you have some known-good references).

Thanks to all for your assistance.
Much appreciated.

[RussianWind]

My gut reaction after this enormous waste of time and effort is that personals sites are pointless, unless you have unlimited time, energy, and dollars to weed through and find the diamond amongst the innumerable stones.  

I find it soooo wrong, the situation I mean. I personally know quite a number (6 or 7 only in my city) of nice pretty girls, who are also so tired from the internet dating because of too many cheaters. We actually met through the internet, landing at the same forum and now meet in reality  Real girls exist, trust me!

[XMan]

"Real girls exist, trust me!"

I almost believe you.
:-)

[RussianWind]

"Real girls exist, trust me!"

I almost believe you.
:-)

Print it out and hang on the wall 

You smiled, it's a good sign 

[Daveman]

NO, please don't set The Bat as a red flag.

As Shadow correctly said "it is a program used in the FSU as more legal replacement for a pirated Microsoft Outlook". The Bat was written by Belorussian guys, costs only about $20 and widespread here. It is just a email client, much better than all Outlooks together. I personally use it for 15+ years.

The bat will almost always be used by smaller agencies where the ladies come or call in to read/write letters.  Many single women use it from their home computers as well (as you indicate)... however, it is also used by scammers, and generally with a story about using an internet cafe (and why would one set up an account and download personal email to a public access point?).

So it's merely an indicator to look a little deeper, that's all. BUT, if she says "internet cafe", and you see The Bat in the header, it's almost assuredly a scammer.  I like the little program myself (since I began my work at home job aka 'Code Name - Natasha Ukralamuchka').  It's pretty powerful, which is why the scammers like it.

[RussianWind]

if she says "internet cafe", and you see The Bat in the header, it's almost assuredly a scammer. 

This is a good point Daveman.
I would also set a yahoo email as an indicator.

[JR]

Oh gosh! Finally

JollyRats, dear, wasn't it easier to use this way of checking http://www.google.com/search?hl=ru&rlz=1T4GGLJ_ruRU176RU176&q=annokvane@yahoo.com&lr= 

Windy Girly, my love, who do you think made that post?

[Sculpto]

This is a good point Daveman.
I would also set a yahoo email as an indicator.

My fiance uses yahoo and she is no scammer.  All her friends use it too.. she was the first. 

The bottom line is if you are in direct correspondence you have to verify everything.  Check for her on vkontakte, mamba, and try to get her on a web cam and talk on the phone at the same time.  However, one thing scam gangs do not do is have long intimate chats.  So, do that.  If they have excuses like no phone, no internet, etc.. bad sign.  Every day more people have high speed internet access, so, the internet cafe thing is more and more BS. 

However, I disagree with xman about free sites.  Mamba is excellent.  If you can't find a serious lady there either your profile sucks, you are ugly as dog doo, or you are still living in fantasy world about age gaps. 

I wish we really had a list of truly trustworthy agencies, but i don't think they exist personally. 

[Shadow]

My gut reaction after this enormous waste of time and effort is that personals sites are pointless, unless you have unlimited time, energy, and dollars to weed through and find the diamond amongst the innumerable stones.  

Assuming there is a decent agency, go with that.  
At least you have SOME clue as to who you are dealing with (especially if you have some known-good references).

Thanks to all for your assistance.
Much appreciated.

On dating sites there is less chances of writing the interpreter, but also less chances of chasing fantasies. If you managed to contact two scammers, you may be going for the wrong kind of pictures.

As for the BAT... why peopl are so afraid of them

[RussianWind]

Windy Girly, my love, who do you think made that post?

Jolly Dancing with Rats, how many scalps do you have already? 

[XMan]

"On dating sites there is less chances of writing the interpreter, but also less chances of chasing fantasies. If you managed to contact two scammers, you may be going for the wrong kind of pictures."

In this case, I just responded to being contacted on russianpersonals.ru.  Seemed average to slightly above. 

I'm sure Mamba, russianpersonals, and others are viable, and may absolutely be preferred by others.  But I don't know that I want to spend time investigating and testing every contact to make sure the person is who they say they are.  Even if they turn out to actually be where they are supposed to be (from a location perspective), you still need phone calls, web cams, etc., etc.  I don't know how you ever know if the person is real, unmarried, etc.   

I come back to one gets what one pays for.  If one can find a reliable agency that provides reasonably priced services, I still think one can have an equal or better chance of success when compared to the free sites.  But again, to each his own.  I'm looking at bad experiences and wasting my time with free sites.  Doesn't make sense to me to continue on that path.  What anyone else does is entirely up to them, and for those who are successful (regardless of methodology), I only hope I can achieve the same somehow.

[JR]

Jolly Dancing with Rats, how many scalps do you have already? 

"Why....whatever do you mean?" Jolly says in his best innocent voice

[Jooky]

In this case, I just responded to being contacted on russianpersonals.ru.

Do you mean that these ladies contacted you first? If so, that's the best way to draw scammers on any dating site, even match.com. It's not always the case of course, but you're better off contacting women.

There's no reason to investigate every contact you make. I've met many women through mamba.ru, investigated none, encountered zero scammers and received just a few spam mails.

Regardless of how you meet a woman, don't you plan on phone calls, chats and web cam (if possible) anyways? How else do you get to know these women and choose who you want to meet? You can't have someone else do the picking for you.

I come back to one gets what one pays for.

It really doesn't. The most expensive agencies are the biggest scams out there. Even with reasonable and reputable agencies you can't be sure that a girl isn't a scammer, a gold digger, just looking for a green card, married or with a boyfriend and just playing around.

If a woman wants to scam or take advantage of a foreigner, it makes sense that she goes where she'll find the best targets, an agency.

I've found the least amount of scams on normal Russian dating sites (the site you used seems to be an international dating site, so that would attract more scammers, of course) and they cost nothing to use. As you say, to each his own, but regardless of the method you need to be prepared to make a serious effort (or get very lucky) if you want to find the right woman for in the FSU. Good luck!

[Misha]

There's no reason to investigate every contact you make. I've met many women through mamba.ru, investigated none, encountered zero scammers and received just a few spam mails.

This pretty much sums up my experience.

[myrddin]

On one search I wrote several hundred profiles (on a mamba.ru portal), by the time we got to phone communication and meetings there was very little concern about scams.  Never checked an email header.

[Sculpto]

hey when you find an agency that isn't a scam.. let us know will ya because I haven't seen one yet.

On the other hand.. why not talk to someone like Alex or Mila who are proven reliable professionals who can offer you a much more personalized service?

And I agree with Shadow.  I think you are going for the glamour shots and instead of finding sweethearts you are finding scams.  The few scam profiles on mamba are so obvious they are easy to avoid.  Personaly, I don't know why you are having such a hard time.  Its easy on Mamba.  Unless you are gross and have completely unrealistic expectations.  Or maybe you are just attracting the negative because you are so worried about it?  I had a mamba profile for the better part of 3 years and did not have one single encounter with a scammer.  Just a lot of nice ladies with different kinds of expectations and one very nasty hooker/girl who wanted a sponsor and wasn't honest about it, who I traded insults with for months.  And also, just a note of observation.. finding someone IS HARD WORK!  You are not going shopping for a wife and if you are lazy now it will bite you later for sure.

"On dating sites there is less chances of writing the interpreter, but also less chances of chasing fantasies. If you managed to contact two scammers, you may be going for the wrong kind of pictures."

In this case, I just responded to being contacted on russianpersonals.ru.  Seemed average to slightly above. 

I'm sure Mamba, russianpersonals, and others are viable, and may absolutely be preferred by others.  But I don't know that I want to spend time investigating and testing every contact to make sure the person is who they say they are.  Even if they turn out to actually be where they are supposed to be (from a location perspective), you still need phone calls, web cams, etc., etc.  I don't know how you ever know if the person is real, unmarried, etc.   

I come back to one gets what one pays for.  If one can find a reliable agency that provides reasonably priced services, I still think one can have an equal or better chance of success when compared to the free sites.  But again, to each his own.  I'm looking at bad experiences and wasting my time with free sites.  Doesn't make sense to me to continue on that path.  What anyone else does is entirely up to them, and for those who are successful (regardless of methodology), I only hope I can achieve the same somehow.

[groovlstk]

But I don't know that I want to spend time investigating and testing every contact to make sure the person is who they say they are.  Even if they turn out to actually be where they are supposed to be (from a location perspective), you still need phone calls, web cams, etc., etc.  I don't know how you ever know if the person is real, unmarried, etc. 

I wonder sometimes if the scammer warnings here are actually making things more difficult rather than helping guys who are searching. Seems to me a lot of guys are assuming scammer first, then employing a bunch of tools/techniques to verify the information the girl writes, and only proceding if they get confirmation that all is well. This is a loop of self-defeat. 

[SANDRO43]

I wonder sometimes if the scammer warnings here are actually making things more difficult rather than helping guys who are searching. Seems to me a lot of guys are assuming scammer first, then employing a bunch of tools/techniques to verify the information the girl writes, and only proceding if they get confirmation that all is well. This is a loop of self-defeat. 

It's the well-known juridical principle of GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE .

[Misha]

And also, just a note of observation.. finding someone IS HARD WORK! 

Yup. Why does it seem to me that some men here would put more time and effort into finding the right car than they would on finding the right person they want to spend the rest of their life with 

[XMan]

Not my intent to argue here.  But I will clarify and address a couple of things.

I'm not going for glamour shots.
I do, however, prefer taller women (usually 5'7" or higher, due to my own height), and that imposes some limitations.

It's been 3+ years of effort, 6 trips, so I've been fairly proactive.  
If time and money were unlimited, I'd be there now.
Had a couple of write-one-visit-one (with backup) scenarios that didn't pan out, and some shotgun approach scenarios that did not work out.  Sic vita est.

Judging oneself is never easy.  I think I can rule out "gross," thank you.  
I can run 5km in 22 minutes and do 75 pushups. I'm pretty much in top physical condition.  Looks, I don't know, average or slightly better.  I don't scope out a lot of men and compare.  

As I said, to each his own.  
To me, free sites are a waste of time.  
I just have a different viewpoint.
And I may not have been using them proactively enough (certainly not contacting hundreds of profiles, more like several dozen).

I did work with a small agency that I thought was very good.  Unfortunately, the primary didn't work out, and the 2 backups didn't for varying reasons.  They don't (currently) have additional women I am interested in.  But, they were honest, and they even recommended a woman already living here in the USA, which nets them no $$$, so proves my point about honesty and willingness to help.  Was it expensive to use them?  Yes, I think it was.  Did I get value?  That's the key.  Yes, I did.  

Again, to each his own.  
My sincere admiration to anyone who has been successful, regardless of the approach that worked for them.
Cheers.