Apartment Rentals - Avoidance of Problems

[Admin]

A few years back I encountered a VERY serious problem with a rented apartment in Kyiv. As a result, I developed a series of questions that I use to screen prospective apartments ever since.

Here is a list of the questions - and some amplifying notes:

* Who owns the apartments you rent?

Often an agent will misrepresent ownership of the apartment. In the event of a dispute of any sort, it is critical that you know the legal owner of the apartment and how to contact them. There are ways to confirm apartment ownership in Kyiv - and probably elsewhere.

* What, exactly, is the agent's relationship with them? Formal or not?

If on an informal basis, and there does not exist a written agreement between owner and agent, then the person renting the apartment (that would be YOU) are taking serious risks in renting that apartment.

* Are all the apartments officially registered with ZHEK (Zhitlovo Ekspluatatsionaya Kontora)?

Many apartment owners do not wish to register with ZHEK because it alerts the taxing authorities that they are probably receiving taxable income for the property. HOWEVER - if the apartment is NOT registered with ZHEK and a dispute erupts - guess what? They can claim that you were never authorized to stay there and they have ALL the legal leverage.

Apartments which ARE registered with ZHEK signal a MUCH more secure arrangement for the renter.

* What is your policy regarding payment? Credit card OK? Partial payment OK?

My STRONG suggestion is to NEVER make full payment up-front. ALWAYS pay for a few days in the beginning, and then offer to pay for more once you have determined that all is suitable. Of course, this may meet with resistance and even refusal from the apartment owner/agent. If so, I suggest moving on, as they may KNOW something is amiss and are unwilling to relent on this point because they know that ONCE THEY HAVE THE MONEY, THEY HAVE *ALL* THE LEVERAGE!

* What is your policy regarding customer satisfaction?

Usually non-existant - so ask and maybe they will develop one.

* What is your policy regarding advance reservations?

Advance planning is one of the frailties of FSU countries and residents. They will want to hold out for a better deal till the last minute. This is situational, but you should try to get them to accept advance reservations - in writing.

* How many days in advance will you hold a specific apartment?

Same comment as above.

* What, exactly, happens if a customer decides after a few days that the apartment is unsuitable?

Get them to commit this to a written agreement, if possible.

* If something breaks in the apartment - through no fault of the tenant (just normal wear and tear) - how is this problem handled?

Once again - written agreement, if possible.

* Do you provide written receipts?

Most will do this - reluctantly.

* Do you provide any form of written agreement?

You REALLY need to get the agreement in written form - and in both Russian and English. Do not settle for anything less. Make sure the agent/owner signs BOTH - and make sure the actual owner and their contact information, is in the agreement.

* Is the payment in US Dollars or other currency?

In Ukraine, it is actually illegal for them to transact in USD - though it is common. Not a big deal - BUT - if a dispute arises and they have accepted USDollars, THEY can be in big trouble. Notably, the transaction in USD is NOT a liability for the US citizen - only for the owner/agent as it is THEY who are violating the laws.

* How can you assure me that no-one else has a key for entry into the apartment?

VERY, VERY important! You need written certification of WHO has entry keys - and the circumstances under which they may enter the apartment while you are renting it.

The US Consular Corps in Kyiv will advise that the single largest problem they face is landlord/tenant disputes. Some, like the one that I faced, result in US Embassy security forces becoming engaged.

Do NOT take these matter lightly. I continue to rent apartments rather than the exorbitantly-priced hotels - but I am much more careful about the source of the apartments and insuring written agreements in all cases.

I hope this helps.

- Dan

[RacerX]

There's some good advice here, Dan, but honestly, having rented flats throughout the FSU for the past decade, I would say  that most would have not met your requirements.  Last year, a guy we used in Petersburg would have scored a 100, but prior to that it was simply a matter of blind trust.

In general, my rule is to find an agency or what appears to be a creditable web company (one that is promoting stuff other than rentals) to handle the task.  Also, if you browse around the RW websites you can get suggestions for agencies/people who will give you a fair shake.
 
That being said, we are renting a place in Minsk this month that has only met a few of the specifications so I think I will give the guy a piece of my mind and see what happens. 

btw, what's the Russian word for "igloo?"

[andrewfi]

Dan, I have not rented an apartment in Ukraine, but I recognise the 'symptoms'. Frankly, I doubt that there are many agencies that would/could meet all your requirements. For that matter neither could an hotel.

I can see the reasoning behind the points that you make, but the reality is that if one were to try to cover all those points, before renting, then one would simply not rent and most owners would not be in the market at the prices they currently charge.

From my perspective, as one who rents out apartments for short term visitors, I for example, would not provide you with information about the owner of the apartment - whether the apartment was mine or not! It is none of your business and no concern of the owner. But, to have an agreement in writing between the manager/agent and the renter is fair and sensible.

If you have a list of people who have keys to your apartment, what good does that do? Absolutely none whatsoever. If you are dealing with an honest agency then there is no problem anyway and if dishonest then whatever you are told counts for nothing.

Registering with local bureaucratic agencies - a nice idea, but if you want to rent a place at a price that is competitive with other apartments and even hotels, then forget it, at least in Russia, probably Ukraine but fortunately not so much in Estonia. But even here, most apartments will not be 'registered' even from the largest and most respected agencies, let alone the guy who has his own home and a 'spare' which is the most typical case. The reason is simple, the costs to the provider of the apartment go up by something like 50%, in taxes alone. Do you want to pay that money?

Not paying cash in advance for the rental? Hmmm, not with me buster! If you want to rent an apartment from a decent firm they will insist on payment up front, or registration and authorisation on your credit card. Many decent agencies and owners will insist upon a security deposit. At the moment, in my apartments I do not ask for a deposit. If you are renting for long periods, for example a month or more then nobody will insist upon more than a months rent + plus deposit.

Sadly, customers, in general, are less likely to be honest than the business man who has to make a living from the same business for many years. If I have your credit card number and authority to make a charge, then I may well be willing to charge on a weekly basis. If you do not feel you can trust the agent/owner, then don't - go to an hotel and pay/authorise in advance there! The usual practice in this part of the world is either to pay a reservation deposit in advance, or pay the whole rental fee upon handing over the keys at the apartment - that is what I do. I may move to a reservation and deposit system in a few months time, depending upon my experience of the trutworthiness of the clients that stay at my homes.

So, how can one take reasonable steps to ensure security?

1) Do not pay too little.

2) If renting through the internet, rent only from agencies, or individuals who have a decent (if not perfect) website. People who bother about this stuff tend to bother about other stuff as well!

3) How efficient are they before you arrive? Are calls and emails answered relatively promptly, allowing for time differences and that people here do get VERY busy.

4) Are you treated as an asset or a liability? If the latter, then avoid.

5) If the place is a shithole then walk away, do not accept alternatives.

6) This is harder to deal with but is worth noting. Rent only places that are rented out as a business. It is common for people to rent out their own homes. If somebody is moving out as you are moving in, this is a bad sign. With few exceptions, I would no longer rent such a place ----  OTOH, here, in Tallinn, my apartment may become available in the summer months and I am one of the good guys! In such, quite rare, circumstances  the client is the winner... Large screen tv, music system, networked computer systems, videos, music and books out the wazzoo as well as a kitchen full of all the stuff that a food lover and cook might want. But avoid like the plague the liittle hovels that are rented out by granny Ira as she goes to stay for a few days with her friend in the suburbs!

Most of the issues that concern Dan arise from cost and position in the market. People are willing to rent out their apartments because they can make a profit at the price that clients are willing to pay. If the costs rise so that, for example, all possible taxes are paid, then the profit goes away and the apartment will not be rented out to foreign tourists. If an owner/agent decides to price at a level that allows all the concerns of the most risk averse guest to feel comfortable, then his money is better invested in an hotel, or apartment hotel where much higher prices will be charged.

The bottom line is that renting an apartment is a somewhat less risk free option than an hotel, in all circumstances that I can think of. The advantages far outweigh, for many, the disadvantages and cost is only one of the benefits. But if you want to avoid risk as far as possible, stay in a good quality hotel. But most of all, if you are unhappy with the apartment you are shown, or the circumstances in which you are shown it, do not hesitate to walk away. Your first impressions will usually be proven correct!

 

[Admin]

Andrew,

Sorry. While I concur that your arguments have some merit, I will persist in my urging people to refuse to rent from people who fail to follow some simple practices designed to legitimize their business offerings and protect the legitimate interests of their customers.

To be fair, I maintain a list of apartments which I have rented in the past and I personally know the owners. In those few instances, I will relent on several of the points made in my initial post.

However, if I am EVER faced with renting from an unknown, I will simply walk away if I fail to receive suitable answers to the questions raised in my initial post.

The MOST important are:

Legal owner's name and contact details. Yes, most agents will refuse to provide that, as exposing it can result in the renter going directly to the owner and bypassing the agent. Why is it so important to the renter? Simple. If a dispute of any sort arises, the militsia is going to ask who the owner is, and they will want to speak with the legal owner. The renter is in an indefensible position if they are unable to provide the name of the owner - especially so if the apartment is not formally registered with ZHEK. In Kyiv, I know how to find the legal owner from the address - but in other cities, it is more difficult, hence, I insist on disclosure of this information.

ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY **DO NOT** pay for the entire rental up-front. Now having said that, it *is* somewhat situational in that if my entire stay is less than a week, I can probably put up with anything for 7 days or less. But normally my stay is several weeks or more - and I simply will NOT take the risk of staying in an apartment in which the water doesn't work, or the entry door is broken, or any of a zillion other possibilities that may make the place virtually uninhabitable and is not immediately exposed upon inspection. A legitimate owner/agent will have confidence that the apartment is fine in all ways, and will accept that a new renter will desire - AND NEED - a few days to insure that all is well. Pay for a few days to be sure all is fine - and then pay for more as you feel is appropriate. I make NO EXCEPTIONS to this particular rule, as I have experienced, first-hand and on MANY occasions, owners and agents who knowingly misrepresent the condition of their apartments and its infrastructure.

Written agreement to include identification of key holders, and the circumstances in which they are allowed to enter the premises while you are renting it. In cases of disputes, Ukraine authorities will expect to see the terms of the rental in writing. Most apartments have pretty sophisticated locks and keys. Keys themselves are expensive to produce and there are usually only a few of them. The fact that someone other than you, has a key to the abode where you are residing and where you are storing, at least temporarily, your property - means you are taking a risk if you have no agreement or knowledge about the terms under which someone may enter the property. Simple as that. Most sensible persons would NOT fail to tie this issue down when renting a property in London or New York. Why would they fail to tie this down when renting a property in Kyiv or in Ekaterinburg?

Andrew - in many ways I promote and advise that guys traveling to Ukraine give the same consideration to renting a private apartment they would if renting in the US. In fact, if you review the advice offered in the 'Ten Commandments' about seeking women from the FSU, I advise to treat it the same as seeking a partner from the US. All too often, men abandon the common sense they have learned and practiced simply because they are traveling to a different part of the world. Principles of finding a life-partner - and principles of renting a private apartment - the same principles should be applied whether in the US or in the FSU.

As always, this is merely my opinion. Readers are encouraged to adopt or reject any or all of it as they see fit.

- Dan

[andrewfi]

Dan ~ this is real simple. What hotel could meet the demands that you say you place on an apartment rental? Then you go on to say that you do in fact not apply all these demands...

In an ideal world we would all have everything we want. You have given us an ideal world wish list, but in reality, they are not all going to apply. The suggestions I have made are applicable in the real world and if they are not, I would strenuously reccomend that you apply them at an hotel and see what happens! Bottom line, if you follow my guidelines, you are most unlikely to have problems. If you do not check that the water works before the agent/landlord leaves with the money, you are a mug. If you did not check, during the summer, what happens about water, in Russia and Ukraine, you are a mug - I never rented an apartment from a reputable agent who did not have a policy to deal with this. In Estonia it is not an issue, we do things differently here anyway! If you are renting through an agency, it might be possible to ask about the agreement between owner and manager and for me this would not be an issue, but I certainly would not involve the owner in any part of this, they pay for us NOT to bother them! Going beheind my back is not an issue, it would only ever happen once.

Of course as the owner, renting through an agency that I also run, the management agreement is all you might see, of course, in Russian, or in my case Estonian.

When a new renter comes to one of my places, we go round and check all this stuff, as well as making sure there are spare toilet rolls and showing the renter where the coffee and tea are. I don't want a call asking me how to turn on the hot water tap, or asking where the iron and ironing board are stashed!

An honest landlord/owner/agent will be most unlikely to allow an unknown person to rent a place without paying for it, he has a responsibility to the owner. A dishonest one will not mind, he is already making such a proft from the owner that it does not matter.

But this is not about my places...

If you rent a place, be sensible, do as I suggest and you will be unlikely to go wrong. Do as Dan suggests, to the letter, and you are going to need an hotel. If you do as Dan suggests he actually does then you are about where I suggest you should be and you will be OK.

[Admin]

Andrew,

My sense is that we could go back-and-forth on this interminably, and to no productive outcome.

I'll close my part by offering two simple comments.

1) I have, indeed, found quite a number of apartments that fully comply with the list I posted. It is primarily a matter of stating the expectation up-front. And while I allowed that I do not make ALL these demands on people with whom I have an established relationship, I do fully expect apartment owners or their agents who are unknown to me to comply - and they usually will.

2) Olya and I have an apartment in Kremenchug which we occasionally rent. We expect people will make the same demands as outlined in my initial post, and we offer the same to people who rent from us.

As much as I may think I know someone with whom I have communicated across the internet, or even by telephone, I have been reminded all too often of how little I really know that person when a monetary transaction is involved.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

- Dan

[eurosun]

If usefull, in Kharkov, apartments prices are about $25 / $35 a day. That are the best prices I was able to get there during the last year.

Regards.