cultural difference question

[mies]

Yes, that is the point, I can (not that I will) go buy my family what ever is needed (house,car,whatever). The main reason I have not bought/built a house before now, is a possible job change in two years.

 As for her questions...I agree that she should be asking something (it became more complicated because of her friends). I want to answer honestly but also to only provide a short answer.

 I will go with Gator on this one (well I'll try).

several of my american friends had bought houses in the areas where they moved to live for 3-5 years. They knew for sure that they will move again after this 3-5y period of time. By buying the house they saved on rent. Then they sold their houses and bought other real estate in the new locations. I do not think that expected relocation is the major reason why you don't buy a house.

I have not completely understood - do you own or rent your apartment?

[mies]

Yikes! My take on that conversation is that she is a material girl.

in the end - life is life, and even the most romantic people have to eat, have healthchecks and healthcare, have children, and stay warm and protected from weather conditions. Women who is not checking whether her basic needs will be met after relocation is not a non-material girl - she is just dumb and short-sighted.

[groovlstk]

several of my american friends had bought houses in the areas where they moved to live for 3-5 years. They knew for sure that they will move again after this 3-5y period of time. By buying the house they saved on rent.

That's part of the problem that caused the housing bubble and it's subsequent collapse  People bought homes beyond their means "knowing" that in a few years they could re-sell it for a profit and trade up.

Here's my own example: when my wife arrived, we were renting a nice studio apt. for $1000 per month. We moved a few blocks away to a 1BR home and our mortgage is around $2400 per month, and that doesn't include insurance or the $200 monthly condo fee. We love our home but if I were still single I'd have stayed in the studio and invested the 20% I used for a downpayment. Everyone's financial situation is different and for many people it makes more sense to rent, even if they have enough savings to put a downpayment on a house.

[remiel6]

Again I agree with Groov on this point. Right now my decision to not buy a house several years ago is looking rather genius. At the time I was told I was being foolish throwing my money away on rent when I could own a home. I even went house shopping where I got approved for mortages I could not pay. In the end I chose not to buy to keep my options open. I wasn't sure where the future would take me. Right now all those "friends" are upside down in thier mortages in homes they cannot sell. They are getting hit big time with losses. Had I made that investment not only would I be upside down in a mortage right now, but I would have been unable to go to the law school that I am currently in and its rather nice scholarship. So the extra tuition would have sapped me for almost 60k in addition to the lost money on the home. The point was to be careful about how you judge the choices people make, as a wise choise on monday could be a bad choice two days later.
IMO, there is a difference between making sure you are taken care of and scouting men for the latest models and lifestyles, but if the original poster is happy with things, then who am I to complain.

[Sculpto]

Same here.. I got approved for a 700,000 mortgage for a little fixer upper in SF in a marginal area.  It was the cheapest house I could find 3 years ago when I thought, I better buy now because if it keeps going like this... but i balked because I knew I could not afford a 5k a month mortgage.  Seems smart now.. that same house just sold for about 450,000.. still not worth it.. 800 square feet, no garage, tiny yard.. crummy neighbors..

[mies]

That's part of the problem that caused the housing bubble and it's subsequent collapse   People bought homes beyond their means "knowing" that in a few years they could re-sell it for a profit and trade up.

Here's my own example: when my wife arrived, we were renting a nice studio apt. for $1000 per month. We moved a few blocks away to a 1BR home and our mortgage is around $2400 per month, and that doesn't include insurance or the $200 monthly condo fee. We love our home but if I were still single I'd have stayed in the studio and invested the 20% I used for a downpayment. Everyone's financial situation is different and for many people it makes more sense to rent, even if they have enough savings to put a downpayment on a house.

why do you assume that my friends are part of the problem of real estate bubble?
First of all - I never said they bought house on mortgage. Second - even if some of them did (which is not a case, but this is irrelevant for our present discussion) - why do you assume they bought houses beyond their means? Or that they bought the house when it was on the peak of the price?
Quite many people are buying houses on mortgage not beyond their means. If a man does not own some property - in case he loses job and his (russian) wife does not work - they both will have no place to live at - no matter was it a rented apartment, or a house bought on mortgage.
In case of friends of some russian woman - we do not even know if they are paying for mortgage. Maybe their house was inherited, or maybe it is already fully payed for.
 

[boaterguy]

in the end - life is life, and even the most romantic people have to eat, have healthchecks and healthcare, have children, and stay warm and protected from weather conditions. Women who is not checking whether her basic needs will be met after relocation is not a non-material girl - she is just dumb and short-sighted.

Mies, I agree a woman should be sure a man can provide for her if she moves abroad. My wife vetted me about 1/2 way through our K1 process.

The way this lady is talking sounds to me like she is trying to be sure she will be able to keep up with the Jones'. If Bidgeg is not into doing this...IE buying designer clothes,driving at the very least a Beamer,and living in an upscale neighborhood, he needs to have a serious heart to heart with his lady about what she expects him to be able to provide.

While discussing this with my wife I explained things very well to her IMO. In my line of work(which she works with me) we meet people all the time that could scratch out a check without thinking and buy me out lock,stock, and barrell. They have their spoiled,only wear designer clothes type of wives. I told my wife even if I can afford that type of lifestyle(which I suppose I can) I refuse to waste the money(which it is to me). I believe in value....not paying 10 times what something is worth just because of a name. The biggest battle I had with my wife was making her be patient about her desire to improve her wardrobe before she came to the US. She needed nicer business type clothes to work with me. Once she arrived she realized I was telling her the truth about the huge differences in price(and selection) between the US and Russia.

[groovlstk]

why do you assume that my friends are part of the problem of real estate bubble?
First of all - I never said they bought house on mortgage. Second - even if some of them did (which is not a case, but this is irrelevant for our present discussion) - why do you assume they bought houses beyond their means? Or that they bought the house when it was on the peak of the price?
Quite many people are buying houses on mortgage not beyond their means. If a man does not own some property - in case he loses job and his (russian) wife does not work - they both will have no place to live at - no matter was it a rented apartment, or a house bought on mortgage.
In case of friends of some russian woman - we do not even know if they are paying for mortgage. Maybe their house was inherited, or maybe it is already fully payed for.
 

My apologies, Meis. I didn't mean to insult your friends.

As far as the OP is concerned, if his rent is reasonable, he will not "save" money by putting that rental payment towards a mortgage. And if he has enough cash to buy a home outright, it may still be a poor financial move to park all that cash. He has his work cut out for him explaining this, as I did when explaining this to my wife's parents, but it's not impossible

[mies]

he needs to have a serious heart to heart with his lady about what she expects him to be able to provide.

... and what he will be able to provide, and the realities in USA - not only the way he wants to present those realities. There will be always people who are wealthier, younger, hotter. There is no need to tell "no - they aren't really rich, young, nor hot - it's just a cultural difference". Because if woman comes to USA - she will quite soon figure out what is the reality - unless she is brainwashed by hubby daily.

bottom line - i agree with you too. This is what i advised the OP as well - to have a serious heart-to-heart with this lady. Or even better - don't bother to waste his time justifying something to a woman who wants a richer man. This is her right and she seems to be quite open and honest about it.

[mies]

The biggest battle I had with my wife was making her be patient about her desire to improve her wardrobe before she came to the US. She needed nicer business type clothes to work with me. Once she arrived she realized I was telling her the truth about the huge differences in price(and selection) between the US and Russia.

i am not sure. Are you talking about tailor-made cloths? Mine are done in Ukraine pretty well. Perfect fit. i think in Ukraine/Russia it's possible to find quite cheap labor, fabric is high quality wool, or blends (wool/linen/silk etc) but also reasonable price - you can buy wool of any quality and price range in Ukraine/Russia.

[DKMM]

I know a American/Russian couple and the man rents a crappy apartment downtown and one old car.  But he supports her in every way and they love each other.  she gets a little jealous at times but sees they are trying to get out to a house within a few years.  She's studying like mad to get something that will let her get a halfway decent job.  they seem happy for now (married less than a year).

I know another couple that are well off (also newlyweds but she is from Ukraine).  They also live in a nice studio condo but they are underwater on the mortgage and she's freaking out now that she'll never get a house.  But the guy makes enough and they will make it too.

My point is, it sounds like she wants to live in a home and wants to know if you are willing to get a mortgage and buy a home for her and your future family.  Its not unreasonable, and I doubt very much she will be satisfied if you tell her you plan to rent an apartment for the long term future.  Women want to live in a house when they move to America unless you are talking NYC. 

[boaterguy]

i am not sure. Are you talking about tailor-made cloths? Mine are done in Ukraine pretty well. Perfect fit. i think in Ukraine/Russia it's possible to find quite cheap labor, fabric is high quality wool, or blends (wool/linen/silk etc) but also reasonable price - you can buy wool of any quality and price range in Ukraine/Russia.

No,not tailormade! I agree these would be cheaper in Ukraine.

An example...I bought my wife a nice pants suit outfit(slacks,blouse and jacket) in Kiev for her birthday. We found the exact same outfit here for right at 1/2 what I paid in Kiev. Keep in mind this was 6 years ago and I don't know how this economy has effect prices!

[boaterguy]

I know a American/Russian couple and the man rents a crappy apartment downtown and one old car.  But he supports her in every way and they love each other.  she gets a little jealous at times but sees they are trying to get out to a house within a few years.  She's studying like mad to get something that will let her get a halfway decent job.  they seem happy for now (married less than a year).

I know another couple that are well off (also newlyweds but she is from Ukraine).  They also live in a nice studio condo but they are underwater on the mortgage and she's freaking out now that she'll never get a house.  But the guy makes enough and they will make it too.

My point is, it sounds like she wants to live in a home and wants to know if you are willing to get a mortgage and buy a home for her and your future family.  Its not unreasonable, and I doubt very much she will be satisfied if you tell her you plan to rent an apartment for the long term future.  Women want to live in a house when they move to America unless you are talking NYC. 

A house is also a solid asset in some lady's eyes that they know they can sink their claws into!

[ECOCKS]

My wife is continually surprised at the quality, selection, value and styling of clothing here versus in Ukraine. This is average, normal clothing we're talking about, not wedding dresses, haute couture or men's suits. The only problem I had over there was the styling on the men's suits. Even with an American suit of mine the tailor still didn't quite get it right and the general attitude when I said I wanted it this way was unpleasant. So, my wife agrees it is better to shop[ over here for the vast majority of things I want.

The one exception for men's stuff I found was it's a great place to get a formal tux. I am kicking myself and plan on getting one maybe two next time I go back. If I had one I could undoubtedly get a job as a headwaiter as long as I wore it to the interview. I may even get a coat with tails, sooner or later my sons will start getting married off.

[Blues Fairy]

If a man does not own some property - in case he loses job and his (russian) wife does not work - they both will have no place to live at - no matter was it a rented apartment, or a house bought on mortgage.

To say nothing of the property taxes that hit as soon as you buy a house. 
In short, if the guy loses his job and the wife does not work, they're screwed no matter whether they own or rent.  :evil:

[SANDRO43]

I may even get a coat with tails

You should brush up on your dancing routines, then :

[ECOCKS]

Yeah, well I was still thinking more about marrying off these kids and the occasional Embassy Ball...

[mies]

No,not tailormade! I agree these would be cheaper in Ukraine.

An example...I bought my wife a nice pants suit outfit(slacks,blouse and jacket) in Kiev for her birthday. We found the exact same outfit here for right at 1/2 what I paid in Kiev. Keep in mind this was 6 years ago and I don't know how this economy has effect prices!

that would be a little digression from OP's discussion - but wanted to elaborate on this topic. If buying ready-made, especially designer clothes - buying in USA on sale season is a sure deal. Most of my many jeans are really nice, and i paid full price of hundred $ only for one pair. For the rest - i paid in the range 4-20$ for each. Not bad ) In Ukraine every pair of jeans of same brand and model would be at least $150.
in case with business suits - situation is different. It's quite hard to find in US sales on female wool business suits, of good quality, of normal sizes (my normal sizes I mean anything below sz 8, or even sz 12).  In Ukraine with fabric I can have tailor-made suit for $50. In USA - i will never find a suit for that price, of my size, of same quality. I would not even find a synthetic blend suit for this money - forget nice soft wool suit. So in case of suits - it's cheaper to get perfectly fit a tailor-made suit in Ukraine/Russia than to buy a ready-made suit in USA.  

[mies]

To say nothing of the property taxes that hit as soon as you buy a house. 
In short, if the guy loses his job and the wife does not work, they're screwed no matter whether they own or rent.  :evil:

my bad )) unforgivable forgetfulness

[docetae]

" I can (not that I will)"
 That came out wrong...I am generous...she can see that. I am trying to put her mind at ease because I can tell that she does not understand it, but she does not push me on it either. I do not think she is a gold-digger, or even wants to "keep up with the Jones". She is just being a woman.

No. She is extremely material. My wife is a woman too (suprise!) and is shocked by reading her behavior. She is not looking for a husband but for a package.
My advise: Run !

[mies]

No. She is extremely material. My wife is a woman too (suprise!) and is shocked by reading her behavior. She is not looking for a husband but for a package.
My advise: Run !

1) by not saying material things does not mean not being material. It's not the difference between being romantic and material. It's the difference between being open vs. having an agenda.
2) how interesting - man who thinks about money (how to save them) is romantic, and woman who thinks about money (how to be provided, and well - yes - how to spend them) - is material. So in the end - romantic is a person who saves money, and material is a person who spends money. Did i get that right?
 :evil:

i guess this is the conceptual cultural difference. Or as we say in Russia "love was invented so as some people can avoid spending money".

For me being romantic means not counting every cent spent on a spouse or spent together. Because in the end - money is not what matters. Money are ashes. Apparently for some people - being romantic means using love as excuse for economizing on a spouse 

[bigdeg]

 Thank everyone for the responses,
Not on here a whole lot lately, but have talked with Malina a few times since I posted. She has not ask about my financial situation, but I could tell that she was thinking about it. I used Gators recommendation as far as saying I was glad I did not buy a house in the last few years due to the economy.
 Most of the missunderstanding was solved by her cousin. I did have to explain the difference her with the stability of our banks (or I use a credit union), and how I was holding my there till this economy turned around.
 So everything is great!

[GQBlues]

Bigdeg-

That's great, man.

But based on what you wrote to head off your topic, technically you twisted the truth a bit and lied out of convenience, am I correct? So now everything's good to go and she should lay down all her fears...

Unless the real estate bubble hits us again in the very near future (where the frenzy got us deliriously crazy and lenders were approving credit even for illegal aliens), lenders are MORE than diligent in approving borrowers these days. If you never operated on credit before, which is one of the major components they religiously use right now (credit history/fico scores, etc..) then I am assuming you have wads of cash to plunk down at least 25% of the price of the home you may someday buy if she took your word for it, correct?

Good luck!

[viking]

I have owned several homes in my life. Yeah, you can write off the mortgage, and taxes and maybe some other stuff. But when you start to add in all the "extras"...the lawn equipment or getting a gardner to do it for you, all the household repairs, things that wear out that require a professional to do ( a new roof for example), it can be more expensive than just renting a smaller place and let the landlord/owner take care of things. For me, I am done with owning a home. A nice 2 bedroom flat with decent sized rooms is all I need or want. Oh yeah, a small BBQ in the yard.

[bigdeg]

 To GQBLUES,
 No I did not lie to her. I sold my last house about 5 years ago. I thought about buying another one but 3 reasons stopped me...
1) I relocated back to my home state, and got a job where I travel the state (so while I was single, renting made the most sense).
2) The housing explosion (UI fist started thinking about it when a friend got a no-documentation loan (Something was fishy). Now is not the time too get a loan.
3) I want to save cash in the bank to build a house (well my money is in silver actually).

Just another tidbit...The housing bubble started the current financial crisis, Correct? That bubble was for residential loans, Correct? I believe the next crisis is going to rest on business and commercial loans. 

P.S. Oh, and I am saving nicely, since I don't keep up with the Jones's (I will just buy there stuff for cash when they need it).