Meeting with a Pro-Dater. My Story.

[Miss FSU]

So a girl becomes a Pro-Dater. In your eyes she gives the guy his fairytale, his fantasy. The guy discovers what she is doing so decides to warn others of her. Its a simple case if you want to play with fire by all means do, but expect to get burnt, and that goes for both the Guy and the Pro-Dater. The guy gets burnt, he loses money. The Pro-Dater gets burnt, she has her details all over the internet.

Dear Handycam72, your thread is nothing but revange, don't mention your carefullness about others.I've read your report on a romancescam, you were contacting her university, trying to cover your case to everyone. why? You wanted to warn tha professors that they could be scamed by her? Of course not. You are just trying to show her your power, to create some problems for her. Although I wouldnt act like this, I can understand your point.

But the problem is, that pro-daters won't care about being posted, if it damage their carriear it will be to little damage, even less  to the whole prodating industry as it is more often operated by the agencies not by girls.
But your posts can create some problems for her if she decides to work in some international company or study abroad, or even some troubles inside Ukraine. If those are he real datas of course.

 I doubt about this but lets assume you reached your aim, she is kicked out from the univercity, she can't find any job becouse every single company googles the names of their aplicants. So what's the alternative?Being prodater of course, she has nothing to loose now, as there is a very little % of the WM who actually read this forum.

So, what's the point again?

[groovlstk]

Dear Handycam72, your thread is nothing but revange, don't mention your carefullness about others.I've read your report on a romancescam, you were contacting her university, trying to cover your case to everyone. why? You wanted to warn tha professors that they could be scamed by her? Of course not. You are just trying to show her your power, to create some problems for her. Although I wouldnt act like this, I can understand your point.

If this is true, it's yet another reason why scam reports have no business here. Too many men wear a cloak of hypocrisy and insist they're trying to help innocents from being taken yet their unspoken primary motivation is petty revenge.

[Timothy]

I disagree. There is much more scam in FSU than alot of people here like to admit. If we are do away with scam discussions then let's also get rid of all the blacklist sites. Then the scammers and their agencies will have even more free reign over the unsuspecting individual.

[groovlstk]

I disagree. There is much more scam in FSU than alot of people here like to admit. If we are do away with scam discussions then let's also get rid of all the blacklist sites. Then the scammers and their agencies will have even more free reign over the unsuspecting individual.

There are entire websites devoted to scam reports, and they are riddled with enough sadsacks, losers, and guys with vendettas as to be practically useless. Evaluating the claims of men like handycam and maurice (who's thread has been deleted, thankfully) are nearly impossible - who is going to speak for the accused?

I would prefer that they peed in their own hottubs and not ours.

[KenC]

Groov,
I am going to disagree with you and reverse my earlier post here that theads like this are not useful. Let me explain.  While I think that the complaints here by Handicam were juvenile and only an idiot would not see the writing on the wall much much earlier than her did, I believe the lessen to be learned here is not to be a "Handicam."  If a newbie can see and understand the traps ones own mind can lay before him, he might be able to avoid them.
KenC

[Sculpto]

black list sites are useless are often a scam themselves.  I forget which one but there is even one that you have to pay to join and view the profiles of scammers.. yeah right I would do that!   

It is really easy to feel shafted and try and blame the girl.  After reading handicams story several times he realyl has no one to blame but himself.  Striking out against the girl is really immature, something one might expect from a middle school girl.. not a grown man.  If there is a lesson to be learned from this thread, that would be the lesson.. dont act like a child when trying to date and marry women.  The pro dating scam was obvious enough from the start so in this case there wasn't much a newbie could learn.

The main source of this problem are the corrupt agencies and the now mythological power of FSUWs.  Men who are clearly way out of their league, who have little or no international travel experience, practically zero street smarts, but who are lonely as hell buy into the myth that Russian girls are compliant and desperate for a husband and a way out of their misery.  As long as these myths continue stupid inexperienced western men are going to keep getting sucked into situations and those that profit from those situations will keep on laughing and keep on setting new traps. 

It is pretty clear to me that the word "ethical" has little or no meaning to many people in the FSU.  I am sorry if that is an insult to some of our members, and most likely they are the exceptions, but, if there is a single cultural difference that must be understood that would be it.  The western and fsu understanding of ethics are just different, in a radical way, and again I apologize if this is offensive, but, it is the people of the FSU that really need to get their act together on this single issue, from an individual level, to a commercial level and finally at a political level before the rest of the world will see the FSU as viable trading partners, political partners and reliable friends.  Just because there is technology, good education and massive military might does not make a country civilized.  It is in fact the existence of a vibrant and dynamic civil society that promotes ethical behavior from its own society, on all levels, that create the basis of civilization.  Right now what exists in much of the FSU remains a lawless and uncivil society.  I hope things change for the better real soon.  The people deserve a chance to live happy and productive lives.  And yes, this is relative to the topic at hand because a civil society does not breed a culture of scammers. 

[facetrock]

  If I was 36 and was conned by an 18 year old girl..... I think I might just keep that to myself. It would be one of lifes most embarassing moments you want to forget but never can.

[Miss FSU]

I disagree. There is much more scam in FSU than alot of people here like to admit. If we are do away with scam discussions then let's also get rid of all the blacklist sites. Then the scammers and their agencies will have even more free reign over the unsuspecting individual.

Sounds rediculous

There are plenty of nigerian emails in my mailbox, should i post all of them to help others to avoid scams?
Or should I just be smarter and not to send them money? I didn't send money to anyone, so there is no need in any vendetta compains from my side. You and Handicam lost some money so you wanna make for that now. If you both were not desparate loosers, you would see situation from more objective angle and wouldnt hope to date anyone out of your league. I am sorry but you'd better join that romancescam site and save other men from being scamed, I think you'll suceed better in that fiels as I can see for sure that you won't meet any woman anywhere in FSU or developed countries, there is some chance to try Thailand. Girls there are more desparate and ready to date loosers

[Sculpto]

Sounds rediculous

There are plenty of nigerian emails in my mailbox, should i post all of them to help others to avoid scams?
Or should I just be smarter and not to send them money? I didn't send money to anyone, so there is no need in any vendetta compains from my side. You and Handicam lost some money so you wanna make for that now. If you both were not desparate loosers, you would see situation from more objective angle and wouldnt hope to date anyone out of your league. I am sorry but you'd better join that romancescam site and save other men from being scamed, I think you'll suceed better in that fiels as I can see for sure that you won't meet any woman anywhere in FSU or developed countries, there is some chance to try Thailand. Girls there are more desparate and ready to date loosers

HAHAHHAHAHA!!!!  But don't bust on Thailand!  Girls there are smarter than a lot of guys think and are well educated in the art of making western guys PAY.  I say Somali girls are the ones for the truly desperate.. hey.. don't knock it.. Somali girls are HOT and very THIN! 

[Timothy]

Miss FSU:

Did I hit a nerve? Hmmm.
You really think I am out of her league and I am a loser also?? Wow.Strong words , I am really hurt. 
 I guess you know me in real life too.   

The point is that it really bothers you when a true scammer is posted. As Fiction spoke, perhaps the FSU countries such as Ukraine will one day be civilized enough not to drown the WM with overwhelming scam letters. There is such a thing as morals and ethics.

[Miss FSU]

from an individual level, to a commercial level and finally at a political level before the rest of the world will see the FSU as viable trading partners, political partners and reliable friends.  

I think you should put it the other way around, start with political level and end with individual. I know too many people whose individual quolities have changed a lot after changing the political system. The logo of the FSU now is Being honest=being stupid, while it was totally different during USSR time.

Miss FSU:

Did I hit a nerve? Hmmm.
You really think I am out of her league and I am a loser also?? Wow.Strong words , I am really hurt.  
 I guess you know me in real life too.  

The point is that it really bothers you when a true scammer is posted. As Fiction spoke, perhaps the FSU countries such as Ukraine will one day be civilized enough not to drown the WM with overwhelming scam letters. There is such a thing as morals and ethics.

Timothy, my point is that normal man corresponds, meets and ,marrys FSU woman quite quickly without help of any forums and scam lists.They simply don't have time for this and they have normal self-esteem for not to buy all that scammers tricks. The fact that you are into this crap makes you a looser automatically, I am sorry but I know what I am talking about.You are typical "customer", now guys from this forum advice you some another "honest" agency, so they will also have a chance to milk you. If you continue searching in FSU you'll face scams only, so instead of losing time and money search somewhere else. That is my professional advice to you.

[groovlstk]

As Fiction spoke, perhaps the FSU countries such as Ukraine will one day be civilized enough not to drown the WM with overwhelming scam letters. There is such a thing as morals and ethics.

So why are you and Fiction looking for wives - of all things WIVES - in such a horrible, corrupt place? Conceivably you'd want a mate to share your morals and ethics, at least approximately, so why are you guys looking in a country you can't hide your contempt for?

 

I'm asking a serious question and not being facetious, BTW.

[KenC]

2012,
Good post up thread IMO.  I do think that you over state the influence of bad agencies (as usual)   Not that I doubt that there ARE bad agencies, just that there are bad girls in good agencies and vice verse.  The determining factor is the integrity of the woman, not the agency.  As for fsu being corrupt or uncivilized, one can also make the point that desperate people are capable of desperate acts.  Chumps like Handicam and Ken1958 are there for the fleecing, so it is a "crime" of opportunity.  The pro daters are there because of the naive western men walking around with hard ons.  "Clever" fsuw without integrity are there to take advantage of the "easy pickings."
KenC

[tim 360]

2012,
Good post up thread IMO.  I do think that you over state the influence of bad agencies (as usual)   Not that I doubt that there ARE bad agencies, just that there are bad girls in good agencies and vice verse.  The determining factor is the integrity of the woman, not the agency.  As for fsu being corrupt or uncivilized, one can also make the point that desperate people are capable of desperate acts.  Chumps like Handicam and Ken1958 are there for the fleecing, so it is a "crime" of opportunity.  The pro daters are there because of the naive western men walking around with hard ons.  "Clever" fsuw without integrity are there to take advantage of the "easy pickings."
KenC

Makes perfect sense.  If there weren't so many niave and needy guys there would not be any scammers. 

[I/O]

I think you should put it the other way around, start with political level and end with individual.

Are you Russian or something of that ilk? Some things will never change.

I know too many people whose individual quolities have changed a lot after changing the political system. The logo of the FSU now is Being honest=being stupid, while it was totally different during USSR time.

Scratching my head and wondering what, how or who changed the political system? Politics? Politicians? Chickens? Eggs?

[Sculpto]

So why are you and Fiction looking for wives - of all things WIVES - in such a horrible, corrupt place? Conceivably you'd want a mate to share your morals and ethics, at least approximately, so why are you guys looking in a country you can't hide your contempt for?

 

I'm asking a serious question and not being facetious, BTW.

Groov.. you already know the answer from me.. its a needle haystack thing at this point.  And, regardless of contempt for the system and for some % of the population the people I interacted with in my trips were good to me.  But then again, I am street wise enough to avoid the bad element.  The streets of San Francisco are certainly good training ground.

[Sculpto]

while it was totally different during USSR time.

Are you sure about that?  I think there are some people around here who would disagree, and, I know many Russian immigrants who came to the USA at the end of the Soviet period who would absolutely disagree.

[Sculpto]

2012,
Good post up thread IMO.  I do think that you over state the influence of bad agencies (as usual)   Not that I doubt that there ARE bad agencies, just that there are bad girls in good agencies and vice verse.  The determining factor is the integrity of the woman, not the agency.  As for fsu being corrupt or uncivilized, one can also make the point that desperate people are capable of desperate acts.  Chumps like Handicam and Ken1958 are there for the fleecing, so it is a "crime" of opportunity.  The pro daters are there because of the naive western men walking around with hard ons.  "Clever" fsuw without integrity are there to take advantage of the "easy pickings."
KenC

Thanks Ken.  I admit I exagerate a bit when it comes to agencies, but, I do not think the exageration is that great.  Think about how effective their propaganda is on men.  I have gone to the effort of reading the Russian language versions of many of the sites that the ladies see.  The propaganda is no less persuasive and in some ways may be even more so depending on where the lady is from and if anyone near her has married a foreign man.  I can't help thinking about the "ukrainian telegraph" that existed just a few years ago and how pervasive and influential it appeared to be in regards to rumor and myth.  I think the newness of the internet in society at large has a stronger psychological impact in that society than it does in ours where we have had a longer time to understand the BS factor involved in the marketing, plus, we have been subjected to sophisticated marketing via TV for a considerably longer time.  Marketers in the FSU are able to use the lessons learned in the west on a far more naive population and I am pretty sure the impact of the marketing is unfortunately more believable.  I think it is also worth considering the ingrained response to "authority" that seems to exist in the psychology of many FSU people.  Web sites that look polished and official give the impression of authority and that reinforces the propaganda message. 

Example:  I recently had a conversation with a FSUW about STDs. The lady was 100% convinced she could get VD from the toilet seat because her malinformed doctor told her so.  No matter what I said to the lady she could not be convinced otherwise.  She heard it from an "authority" and would not even consider any evidence to the contrary. 

In regards to pro-daters.. I think this category of female is far more complex than what we are able to understand.  As Miss FSU stated early in this thread, with the true pro-dater a victim would not even be aware he had been "had".  Stories like handicam's come off to me more like a vast difference in expectations than a deliberate plot to scam.  Why?  Frankly the reward is too small for it to be profitable enough to be a real business plan.  So.. what follows is a what if scenario...

What if... a girl has exceedingly romantic notions of how she wishes a romance to be.  What if a girl dreams of being swept off her feet by a knight in shining armor who arrives on a white horse (jet plane) rescues her from her lofty prison (stalin house) showers her with gold and jewels (goes to expensive place to eat that she couldn't otherwise afford) and takes her away to a magic fairy tale land of prosperity (the west) to live happily ever after. 

In the above scenario, if a man fell into some immature girls fantasy, and the man was inexperienced in the ways of women and had not familiarized himself with Russian fairy tales, he could easily feel himself the victim of an organized pro dating scam, but, could actually be completely mistaken and had simply proven himself not to be the night in shining armor the young and immature lady dreamed about since she was a little girl.  Here is but one of many of the type of fairy tales that I understand are very common.  Always there is a prince that comes to save the long suffering girl.  Disney has nothing on the Russians for sure!  http://www.artrusse.ca/FairyTales/vassilisa.htm   BTW.. I was advised by an RW to read Russian fairy tales to have a better understanding of the mentality of RWs and their expectations and would pass that advice to every man in the searching phase. 

[Sculpto]

Scratching my head and wondering what, how or who changed the political system? Politics? Politicians? Chickens? Eggs?

I think she means the change from the USSR to the Capitlomafiofascists of today.  What she fails to understand is it is exactly the training of the USSR system that has enabled to corruption of today to exist.  What we see today absolutely existed under the Soviet system, but, was completely hidden from view because of the total control of the media and the fear of neighborly informants.  But, one thing i know from my time in Mexico during the PRI in the 80s and 90s, which was a system modeled on the Soviet one though far less efficient in rooting out "evildoers" is that when people are faced with an authoritarian and controlling system they will find all kinds of subtle ways to subvert and take advantage of that system to their own benefit.  thus, as I said in another post, the USSR was the perfect training ground for the scammers and mafiosos of today.  To make a change to an egalitarian and transparent society requires the evolution of a viable civil society without restriction nor subject to powerful propaganda forces.  As long as Putin and company remain in control of the media it is unlikely if not impossible for that type of civil society to develop.  That may be the single factor I find most frustrating in trying to understand and navigate the current FSU mentality.  Cheap booze goes a long way to stop people from organizing and communicating and forcing civil change.  It is a situation not so much unlike the presence of highly addictive substances in the worst parts of America.  As long as crack cocaine and crank keep the masses addicted and the organizers occupied in illicit profits making those marginalized people will never stand up and demand their rights.  Different fish.. same ocean. 

[Boethius]

The logo of the FSU now is Being honest=being stupid, while it was totally different during USSR time.

No, during Soviet times being honest was viewed as being stupid.  Everything was about the material, and serving the party.  It was a society turned upside down.

I agree much of the FSU is extremely corrupt, on all levels, and morally bankrupt.  There aren't police in my country selling women into prostitution, or shaking down citizens.  Our prime minister didn't buy a huge supply of surgical masks, then create a fake H1N1 scare, and suggest everyone wear a surgical mask, making a cool half billion dollar personal profit in the whole fiasco.  However, you can still meet good and honest people.  

I've thought about this a lot, and you find the same archetypes in every society.  

I think there are more people in the West who are more moral, but I don't think it is because we are any better.  I think it is because the systems and organs that keep society operating and civil are not wholly corrupted, so there are consequences if you get caught in bad behaviour.  If we had the level of corruption that existed in the USSR, or in the countries of the FSU, we'd have similar immorality and the same attitudes.

[Gator]

HAHAHHAHAHA!!!!  But don't bust on Thailand!  Girls there are smarter than a lot of guys think and are well educated in the art of making western guys PAY.  I say Somali girls are the ones for the truly desperate.. hey.. don't knock it.. Somali girls are HOT and very THIN! 

I went to next door Ethipoia in the 1970s.  Beautiful, thin women, not just because they had nothing to eat.  Not tall, however.  Maybe Somalia women are taller.

http://www.heartofasiaonline.com/view_profile.php?flag=1&member_id=86670&link=browse&mode=3&type=WSM&age_range=&country_id=&region=&search_seeker=WS&search_seekee=M&search_age_from=25&search_age_to=41&search_country=97&search_region=&set_start=0&pagenum=15

http://www.heartofasiaonline.com/view_profile.php?flag=1&member_id=12679&link=browse&mode=3&type=WSM&age_range=&country_id=&region=&search_seeker=WS&search_seekee=M&search_age_from=25&search_age_to=41&search_country=97&search_region=&set_start=0&pagenum=60

http://www.heartofasiaonline.com/view_profile.php?flag=1&member_id=8049&link=browse&mode=3&type=WSM&age_range=&country_id=&region=&search_seeker=WS&search_seekee=M&search_age_from=25&search_age_to=41&search_country=97&search_region=&set_start=0&pagenum=0

[Sculpto]

there is a rather large Ethiopian community in the Bay Area.. the women are beautiful

[SANDRO43]

In October, 1935 Mussolini launched the invasion of Abissinia (Ethiopia), the only piece of still-available African real estate - also conveniently located between our Eritrean and Somalian colonies, all three to become subsequently the Vice Realm of Africa Orientale Italiana (Eastern Italian Africa).

In April of the same year, the song Faccetta nera (Little Black Face) was released, quickly becoming the favourite Fascist marching song and often aired on the radio on the propaganda urgings of MinCulPop - the acronym for the Ministero della Cultura Popolare that also lent itself to a wry interpretation (M'inculo il popolo: I sodomise the population ).

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKAKcDQBYuU[/youtube]

Italian lyrics with English translation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faccetta_Nera.

[mies]

I'm 36, I was aware of the age gap in the beginning, but in our correspondence that soon vanished. Also my parents have 16 year age gap and they been together 50 years next year, so not done them any harm

i am not getting it. 36yo man let this happen? when there are so many good, attractive, reasonably young females in any country, including in Ukraine who'd be interested in meeting him - he has to go after a pro-dater??? what a waste...
 

[mies]

I also do not believe in professors at the age of 30

wrong. professor - is a position, not a scientific degree.

In USA - 22+5=27 - the age when somebody can easily be a professor.

In USSR - technically professor can be a person with кандидатская or докторская. Few would have the latter by the age of 30, but some - the talented ones, do. As for the former - it's normal to get this degree by 25-26 if going to PhD program after getting Master's degree.