Divorce

[Son of Clyde]

AJ, sorry about the sad news. I wish you the very best.
This may not apply to AJ but I find some FSU women seem to be living in a United States that existed in the mid 1960's. We called it "keeping up with the Joneses." Americans were very competitive as far as wanting to have the most manicured lawn on the block, the nicest car, the fanciest clothes. I see some of this behavior amoung a few of the FSU women who are in the US. Is this typical behavior? Maybe this sudden materialism is an overcompensation for the ladies that did not have nearly as many material things in their country. Sorry to change the subject, but I think quite a few marriages fail as a result of this. American marriages too. If you marry for love the nicer things in life may follow.

[tfcrew]

I read about the '90%..10%'
 & That reminded me of what I have heard before when someone would say marriage is a 50/50 thing.

How wrong that is.
It is 100% each way or there will be problems

[SMS60]

Why all the sadness? You made the decision about wanting a divorce and recieved what you asked for. You are free of the ball and chain....Rejoice!!!
Party tonight!!!!.................. You are a free man..............Bring on the pizza,beer and women.


One thing that bothers me is when couples do the break-up game and someone states "we are still in love" Cough,cough........ No, your not in love............. your mind is foggy at the moment. Im sure you dont wish harm or negative things to happen to each other.....you want the best for them................... but your not in love. I think people say this to make themselves feel less guilty..........my opinion.

Comment on the 90/10 issue................... I doubt if any marriage is a 100%. I would say most are 75/25. The way a man gets thru the 25% is like a boulder in a stream. He is the rock and his relationship flows around him ever so gently. He wont move unless it is something big and strong coming down the stream.

[Son of Clyde]

I think it is better all around if the couple can part on good terms.
This is not always the case.
Funny how someone can go from being called honey to being called that lying piece of crap in only a few short months.
This is what makes the breakup so bitter.

[Jumper]

sm600

your presume to actully know how people feel
people you dont know, ,dont know their backgrounds ,
dont know the good times thevye had,
 or the struggles theyve been thru.

perhaps you should change your screen name to nostradomas?

why on earth would peoples feelings bother you?


I dont consider my wife a ball and chain,
We enjoy spending time together.
Why would i celebrate the death of a relationship?
we do still love each other, thats bizarre you cant imagine that.

So should i cancel my plans this evening to spend time with and consoul my son, at the loss of having a mother each day in his life,and loss of an important person for him daily..hes' pretty tore up.
but instead to drop him at a sitters and go out partying?
because i'm "free"?
sorry if reality instrudes inyoyue "opinion"

not everyone fits in some box of thinking you have on relationships.

you have either never been thru anything likes this,
never had a familiy ,or are from some other planet.

people do truly love each other, yet seperate.
it is tale retold in a thousand  ballads, novals,poema and theatre.
why? because its a well known and common human condition that many can relate to.

yet yo udontbelieve it exisyts.

they are only feeling guilt ,not love

interesting.
we will have to agree, to disaggree ,on this view of relationships.

[Zmejka]

How is that expression? I was sitting on my fingers for the whole time while reading this thread. But i can wait no longer - and under the threat of picturing myself as a "monster" or - better say - a witnesses of a car accident who finds pleasure in questioning a poor prey - i will tell my opinion about the situation.
First - i find it indeed devastating when relationship falls apart. And i'm very-very sorry for you, AJ, that you have to go through this. Only time will heal your wounds and only time will show if this decision was right or not. But i find some things happened in this thread strange and i would like to say some words about that.
Yes i should have been limited in my life experience for sure because i don't know how two when they break up but still "cry the whole night on the shoulder of each other", can spend days and nights with each other and what else AJ was describing? I'm sorry for being such an ancient thing. May be i'll never understand that, again want to apologize for that. As for me it sounds more like some masochism that people allow in their life to happen, but if it's ok for them - it's not my business, there's a saying "every man goes astray in his own crazy way" (is it the right use of the saying i found in the dictionary?)
Then i made some quotes i'm totally agree with. First is

It was you who started this Thread AJ and unfortunately you have to face what you started. You could have chosen to keep your life private. Who would have known otherwise? You put yourself, "on the autopsy table."
Questions and advice are to be expected. We all seek answers and guidance from the experienced. I don't believe that anyone has shown you any disrespect at all. I only see compassion and sympathy

And i also believe AJ was too sensitive to open this thread. I didn't (sorry again for that) see in his FIRST post that he wanted only to share the situation and NO advices. Usually - i assume usually as i read forums and post myself - people share the situation WITH some questions they would like to get answers from others. It doesn't matter if they decide to listen to those others or not, usually they post with initial feeling of seeking for some approve or feedback from somebody else. That was automatically assumed by some other RW (and not only them) who posted before me, that's why they suggested their point of view with their best intentions to help. That's what was said here

The only reason why I started to say something,was I am really and truly sorry about you-a wonderful beautiful couple-and thougth that you might to make a mistake of your life(people do it very often cos of emotions you know)

We didn't assume the author was stupid, we didn't assume he was blind and so on. We just wanted to help. And sorry - we didn't understand in time that AJ didn't want anybody's help or point of view. Of course it's out fault that we didn't see it in his post while some other, surely smarter than us, immediately saw it. May be that gave them the right to attack our position and call us "witnesses", nosey and what else? and in general - "who gives a damn what..." It doesn't matter it was rude and groundless, it's the price we should pay for not understanding from the very first post. That's also due to my short memory - the author's posts are usually long and while i'm reading it in the middle i'm loosing the pieces of facts i've tried to gather from the beginning. Sorry for that too.

I think you definitely should have  kept it in private unless you could openly say what is wrong.
Because you just confused a lot of people by your thoughts and your reasons

But again - sorry for that confusion that we per accident brought to this thread. As i understood we should have walked - how is it? - on the eggs shell from the beginning with the purpose not to bother the author's sensitive soul with our stupid questions. Again we already got a clap for doing that from the wisest and valuablest forum members. Of course we'll never repeat our act of stupitidy again because of course we're less wise and valuable forum members than those who allowed those claps in our faces.

sorry for interfering actually , I do not understand a lot of things in American way of thinking, a lot of people in Russia always say things straight and I think there are huge misunderstandings between Russians and Americans in terms of how you express yourself

Yes, this is the way how we express ourselves - i think it's different. Should i say... To my mind AJ is too idealist and wants everything to be perfect, that's explanable that after years of trying to solve these issues that was him who suggested separation. He also said he was compromising and did anything possible to do. Possible - in his set of mind. Of course not everyone is lucky to broaden one's set of mind to look at things broader. That means complete change of character that is very difficult, and i also can't do that. So he's right in his decision and i think he won't regret it with time. With such people even 1% bad out of 99% of good can break the back of the camel - did i use that expression right? And with any other woman such 1% can happen because the whole life and married life is about compromising and there's no ideal partner with 100% compatibility. The thing is only that future is really changable and we can never guess with our theoretical view what it will be. May be it's better and easier to avoid pain of a real break-up when there's no hope by replacing it with a break-up when feelings are still strong and at least that fact gives less pain? Fearing for the future that can never happen? That resembles me of a fairy tale by the brothers Grimms "Clever Elsie", just a fragment of that:

"When they were sitting at dinner and had eaten, the mother said, Elsie, go into the cellar and fetch some beer. [...] Then she placed the can before her, and turned the tap, and while the beer was running she would not let her eyes be idle, but looked up at the wall, and after much peering here and there, saw a pick-axe exactly above her, which the masons had accidentally left there.

Then clever Elsie began to weep, and said, if I get Hans, and we have a child, and he grows big, and we send him into the cellar here to draw beer, then the pick-axe will fall on his head and kill him. Then she sat and wept and screamed with all the strength of her body, over the misfortune which lay before her".


I'm done, once more i'd like to bring my apologizes for anything i could said wrong and that could offend the author in his pure intentions. And yes, i'm still very-very sorry for the outcome that AJ has faced. At the same time I feel down that reading this forum for almost 4 years still didn't get me to that point of understanding that other people here already reached. But i'll keep trying, there's always hope for such people like me.

[KenC]

Zmejka,
AJ has been posting to forums from a time prior to RWD.  Maybe 7 or 8 years.  He has come to be thought of as a friend to many of us.  He has shared much about his and his wife's life with us all.  He was generous with the information offered and advice given to many others.

What you and a few others do not seem to understand that any personal information offered here is voluntary and almost on a need to know basis.  There is or should be IMO an imaginary line drawn in a members mind what it is he or she is willing to share publicly and what is to be kept personal and not shared.

Going through a divorce is extremely personal.  AJ has chosen to share some of the very basic reasons.  As much as he himself is comfortable in making public.  We as members (and friends) NEED to respect his privacy.  AJ is not asking us for advice.  He is just letting many people that he has known for some years that he and Tanya have come to the decision to separate.  We do not NEED to understand.  We do not NEED to know all the gory details.  We NEED to be supportive of a friend going through a terribly emotional and sad experience.  If AJ does ever want our input, he will ask for it.  For now, let him make his own decision on how much he wants to share.

The funny thing about all this is that I have always been told that when women vent their heartaches, complaints or moods, it is us men that do not understand that they are not asking us to "fix" anything.  They just want to get it off their minds.  Maybe it is a sort of role reversal with a few of you RW.  You can't fix it for AJ and Tanya and he isn't asking for you to do so.  Listen, if you want, consol if you want, but don't pry any more than AJ is willing to offer.

I hope this helps you in understanding better.
KenC

[Doll]

AJ is not asking us for advice

Nobody gave him any- not a single person (but for bringing in beer))).
 

[KenC]

Nobody gave him any- not a single person (but for bringing in beer))).
 

OK Doll, you got me!  Read the rest too.
KenC

[Doll]

OK Doll, you got me!  Read the rest too.
KenC

I did.

[Vaughn]

There is another aspect that seems to have bothered a few here - the "amicable" split. When two
people who've shared life and love for a number of years in the most mature and deepest sense, it
is quite common for a parting of ways to be accompanied by shows of affection and reminiscence.
Outsiders can easily mistake them to reveal hope or possibility - but to the two involved, there lies
an understanding, borne of respect and mutual thankfulness for the good years shared. It is one of
the first steps toward a functional, although sad, closure.

Not all divorces begin with tea kettles flying across a loud kitchen.

[tfcrew]

I think it is better all around if the couple can part on good terms.
This is not always the case.
 

Hardly ever the case.
Distance..infidelity.. symptoms not causes.

Now for those who disagree with the 100% analogy ... Perhaps I should amend the statement and suggest that a successful marriage
is like building a house...if you have a good foundation..the rest can be fixed. Argue that point and you show me that you are really not serious.

Karl

[Turboguy]

Sometimes they start out on good terms but seem to go downhill fast when it comes time to divy things up.

[dukemaxwell]

Kenc, I like what you said! right on!

[Photo Guy]

I don't know Zhena, but this post seems to ring true. Reality can be quite different from a preconceived notion, based on a dogmatic theory of how things will be.

Ok,may I say this...
Of course,knowing the reason doesnt change anything,but....As for the Doll,it seems to me that there is NO rea; reason to divorce. Sorry,but we,RW,are straight and often saying what we thinking even if it sounds like not our business...
So.AJ,if you REALLY wanted the kids...if you re sincere about that...I dont see any problem at all. What child rearing aspect differences you re talking about?! Your Tanya is only a theoretic because she never had her own kids! She absolutely cant know how she will raise her future child. I am telling this to you absolutely exactly. I have a stepson also and I dont like many things about how americans raise the children....but we never ever discussed what will we do,when we ll have our own child. Simply because all children are different,thats first. A second,you can imagine how yu ll do this and that,and a reality will be absolutely different,and you will feel different also. We dont have any problem raising our child now. Sometimes we have a little disagreement,but its nothing. The parents rare agree on 100%.
I can tell you more,if you want to listen. I think THIS reason cant be the reason. From what you described,it sounds just masohistic action for you both,sorry....

[Turboguy]

PhotoGuy,  Nice to see you back.  Hope you stick around and that things are going well for you. 

[groovlstk]

One of the reasons why I continue to read RWD is shared experience. I can talk about things with folks here that none of my friends or family have a frame of reference for, it really was a Godsend for me to find this site.

Where else could AJ find a group of people who know how difficult it is to romance a girl 5000 miles from his home, to take her away from her family, friends, and culture and help her build a new life despite the homesickness, culture shock, and language barrier?

And to go through all that and, despite their best intentions, watch it fall apart?

Give the guy a break, show some understanding, stop speculating about the specific problems he and his wife encountered, and quit sucking his blood.

[SMS60]

Maybe the moderators can lock the thread.

There is nothing to be gained or learned. Except arguing on how to respond to the story.

I think Aj would be better off writing a letter every other day and addressing it to an undeliverable address......for theraputical reasons.

[KenC]

SMS60,
If you do not like the thread, don't read it.  AJ started it and can leave it open for as long as he wants.  He can choose to post and share or not.  I for one, will ALWAYS give him an open ear.
KenC

[Jumper]

Nobody gave him any- not a single person (but for bringing in beer))).
 

no advise,,just random speculation and insinuation right?
it's ok Doll
its what happens on most any forum..

funny example:

Zmejka's mind i'm a perfectionist.
and from fragments of posts on this thread,  i could see how someone could come to that thought?

but it just illustrates  how poor a vehicle reading a few posts can be to making a good assement of someone, or their life..

Granted its all anyone has to go on in a forum?
so it is ,what it is.

but if Zmejka knew us as a couple,, she would die laughing at the polar opposite her internet assesment is to *real life* .
(my wifes the perfectionist,to the 100th degree  
and would easily admit it!!. She'd diffinantly laugh and tell you i'm the easy going one in the relationship for sure! )

SMS60- this thread does seem to bother you in general.
not sure why.
Nothing bad has happened in this thread?
and I did post i at the start there was little to be learned.
People naturally looked for answers,,
i gave what i could,
some accepted them ,
some completely understood them,.
others couldnt.
A few posted some theories,, mostly inaccurate,,but that's understandable as well from limited information?
i pointed out the theories given, where not our reality.

I took a few comments to heart,, admitted that I shouldnt have,
and later made light of it.

Threads that have nothing left to offer, generally just stop on their own.They typically arent closed unless there is some flaming or inappropriate posts.

The threads not precious to me,, but i do find it odd you'd suggest closing it.
 its easy to not open or read one that isnt of interest? *shrugs*
unless you pay Dans band width bill?   :usdeyes:

writing a letter to some undelieverable address might be theraputic? I don't think it would be for me..

The difference is that here, i'm sharing my thoughts with some members i've known for almost 10 years,
so it seems a little more meangful..?
you see, they know our story thru the years, over several different forums,
and we have all often traded or shared advise or just excerpts from our lives.
Some of them know  "us" in person, so they completely understand.

[OlgaH]

... that a successful marriage is like building a house...if you have a good foundation..the rest can be fixed.
Karl

That is a good point.

Even when little termites start to make their way through foundation it is easy to rid of them at the beginning if the householders pay their attention and don't let the situation take its course.

[Jumper]

 I want to thank those who have posted both advise,speculation, sympathy,or simple understanding.
It's a forum, and that's what it's for.

 I felt i should keep this somewhat updated..for those that know us.

I know that many won't possibly understand.
That's ok.
I'm not comfortable in elaborating far enough to enlighten everyone,and so our situation won't make sense to many.
and that's expected.
Those who have expereinced similar ,will completely understand.
others won't be able to.

for those thinking our situation is strange,
you would be surprised at the number of messages i have of other couples that have been in the exact same scenerio before..


We did self file (i did,but we had agreed to and had went over all details) we already both signed a waiver of final hearing,
which means it is simply a processing time frame and a granting of a dissolution of the marriage in 60 to 90 days.
  Since i've last posted,we still are in touch pretty much daily,,either in person or on the phone.She still stays in touch with my boy daily..
We still miss each other ,so invariably, end up spending  time together, which we enjoy.Its very easy to fall back together if just for a day or weekend.A "clean break" doesn't seem possible for us, nor do either of us actually want that, so it isn't realistic,
even if we both realize it might long term be best.
It may not make sense, but for *us* ,still sharing time , and some laughs, lessons the blow.It isnt as sad or painful this way,,
and we are both adjusting to living apart ,yet still having feelings for each other.
We are still both confused of course at times, and each day feels different,but both feel it is both the correct choice for us, and
the correct way *for us* to exit our relstionship.we understand it may appear strange to many ,for us to do so.
I still feel the same for her ,,but now when we part , it isn't as dark or painful, she feels the same way.
 
 I've seen so many horrific endings to WM/RW marriages.
This is not one of them.
i'm not sure,but maybe that would be of some small comfort to those who fear getting involved.
As even if ultimately you do not go thru entire life together, it doesn't mean it will end in some ugly way.

 i'm not trying to paint some rosy picture, its been brutal emotionally.
It is getting better for us both,
and no matter how strange it seems,,being there for each other thru this,  has certainly helped us both.
I can't explain it any better.

[KenC]

It takes a lot of time, AJ.  Keep your chin up as much as possible.
KenC

[Markus]

AJ,

Sorry to read about what you're going through.

Mark

[Son of Clyde]

It is very sad to see guys who have been on the boards for 5+ years are now having to deal with an ugly divorce. I am seeing too many familiar names who are now posting as single guys. If you look at the divorce rate among Americans why should it be any different if one person is Russian? That complicates the picture. I think a problem earlier on is expectations. The Russian woman has no idea what life will be like once she arrives. In some relationships the woman is totally devastated if she finds her husband is an average American. I have heard of one guy who is working on his third Russian wife. His first Russian wife was so homesick she left while he was at work and took all of her belongings. These relations are never easy even in the best situations.