Dynamics of VM vs VO

[Bored1]

Actually, just the opposite is true IMO.

As this is able to be quanitfy as to success of % of marriage met from dating site and number of registered mans and womans would the number confirm this?  I ask from a scientific viewpoint as I have no knowledge.

I also do not understand why a man would come here to date if not for a long term view of marriage.  If the ultimate goal is marriage and not pen friend then surely the success of agency and the intentions of those on it whether they use it from start to finish of a marriage process or simply for intial introduction will be confirmed by marriage numbers of all those registered there wanting to marry.

Why would a WM join agency if he just wanted to come to Russia and sleep with womans.  It is not necessary as they can simply come without agency and can be lucky.

If the agency is used for introduction with a view to more than just being lucky with a RW as far as sexual encounter is concerned then the mans does not see an agency as a dating site but as a marriage site untimately whether he use it for a long or short term?

If this is ultimately so then the number of marriage as a % of WM and RW member of a agency would be an indicator as to how many member are truely interested in marriage.  

If most as you say are there with genuine intention of marriage then from 50,000 RW and 50,000 WM there must be someone for a reasonable % among such number or the whole premise of such a site is not to facilitate marriage but for business reason.

I think you have as much luck of finding your RW on a trip to Russia without any form of correspondence before you come and without any help of agency in a busy nightclub.  I do not see a better chance of success or failure from this.  

It has been written buy mans here that they have written for month and month to RW to come here and decide within a matter of minutes that the RW is not what they thought or the RW does not like them.  Why not just come here on holiday as at least the first few minute of seeing somebody both will know if there is any attraction or not without having waste time writing or expense of agency?

For business reason it is good to have many RW who are very pretty who will meet any mans and will come and drink coffee and eat with them with no intention of marriage or do you think the agency really want to accomplish this?

I ask again what % of those selected by each other actually do get as far as marriage which have come from a agency as I think there must be a large number of member who are not interested in marriage or there would be a high % of success whether the marriage last or not?

If there is not why not if all are happy to see every mans which passes through until they find a suitable mans?  I do not know how many agency there is or how many WU and RW member there is but if there is 10 agency with 50,000 WM and 50,000 RW each for example what is the success rate of even getting to marriage when all the number are combined?

I think the % will be low maybe only several hundred from a possible 500,000 WM and 500,000 RW but I am sure that the statistic of RW marrying foreign mans can be found and may prove me quite wrong.

If the number is low it would add to my question as to why WM seek to marry RW so much and not womans from other country.  It still does seem quite strange as we have already stated RW will not produce children on demand and we do not all cook well or want to spend our time cleaning a house.  Domostroy is a very old book.    If it is because we are pretty then does that not reduce the soulmate arguement put forard by so many as a soulmate has little to do with physical looks but emotional and shared attitude.

In this regard I do not think Russia or Ukraine are the only country where a WM can find a woman even if ugly who would have the same outlook on life.  

[kievstar]

Hi Dan, I think I/O above captures some good points on the past being out dated on the present.  


10 years ago few quality men were visiting.  5 (maybe 3 depending on agency) years ago few quality men visiting.  This is from workers in the marriage agency.  Now a lot more quality men are visiting.  Why - it is easier now.  Easy to to get a visa (Ukraine does not require one), many places to stay are advertised on the internet, information about how to meet a RW all over the place, most people know a man who married a foreign woman now, tons of information on Internet, and tens of thousands of people have had successful marriages and women in FSU know that. Hardest part before was getting over.  Poor quality men had their choice. If they got on a plane it was easy.  But we all now what happens eventually - divorce.  Were seeing numerous divorces lately. The older guys who had children will not get a divorce more than likely.  So they got to trade up in most cases and stay away from divorce.

I think the challenge for men 5 to 20 years ago was how?  Very easy to find out how today - now it is about going often and making sure your both right for each other. Most guys in this process never write letters, never hang out on the internet, or sit on their seats to long.  They visit often and spend enough time with the right one.  Very few men hanging out on RWD are successful.  

I found this entire process easy.  I also found my wife adapting to USA easy.  Why - tons of information out there.  The veterans on this board are better on talking marriage life. I listen to them personally.  The guys actually on the ground in past three years know more about the scene (not all but some of them do).  That being said some things do not change and hearing an old war story is always fun.  But for the newbies times were different 5 years ago.  Also, I have yet to see a happy marriage after 10 years.  

Would be nice for a guy with a 10 plus years marriage and children to talk about there life.  I am sure they exist.  Guys who are on second RW do not count.

[KenC]

Olga,
You bring up a very good point regarding illusions.  The mind can play some very funny tricks on you.  From my experience in dating AW via the Net, I knew that any prolonged communication prior to actually meeting could set expectations much higher than reality.  Maybe it is my over active imagination or positive attitude, but I had more than once met women that were nothing as I had imagined in our Net or phone conversations.  I had learned that a short period of communication with a quick follow up meeting was the best way to keep everything very realistic.  I do know that Lena and my correspondence took a big turn toward seriousness after we verified our mutual interest face to face.  Maybe our personalities were such that we took a more cautious approach until we met.  Meaning no commitment beforehand.
KenC

[OlgaH]

Olga,
 Maybe our personalities were such that we took a more cautious approach until we met.  Meaning no commitment beforehand.
KenC

and our commitment and concentration on each other was also our cautious approach 

[Jooky]

Bored1, in 2008 the US gave out 1304 K (marriage or fiancee) visas to Russians and 1058 to Ukrainians.

It's hard to say how many of those visas were given to agency brides, but I think you're right, out of the 20-50 thousand women listed on agency sites, I'd guess only several hundred from Russia and several hundred from Ukraine actually end up married to an American.

If the number is low it would add to my question as to why WM seek to marry RW so much and not womans from other country.

Actually more Americans find spouses from Asia (19,752 total K visas in 2008) and South and Central America (around 10,000 total K visas in 2008).

To answer why do so many men seek Russian brides? Because it's highly and well advertised, and the main reason is seeking beauty and youth.

[OlgaH]

Olga,
You bring up a very good point regarding illusions.  The mind can play some very funny tricks on you.  

Yeah, even during several meetings face to face... and then o-o-ops even one and at first sight it would seem not so significant thing can turn everything inside out showing a true color.

[KenC]

and our commitment and concentration on each other was also our cautious approach 

Olga,
I do not understand how giving your mutual commitment and concentration to each other could be considered a cautious approach.  Would it not be more of a risk to give your heart to someone before you met in person than after?

I know everything worked out great for the two of you, but I am speaking logically here.  If there really is any logic to finding love.
KenC

[Ade]

Bored1, in 2008 the US gave out 1304 K (marriage or fiancee) visas to Russians and 1058 to Ukrainians.

It's hard to say how many of those visas were given to agency brides, but I think you're right, out of the 20-50 thousand women listed on agency sites, I'd guess only several hundred from Russia and several hundred from Ukraine actually end up married to an American.

But of course, most don't want to marry an American anyway...

[OlgaH]

Olga,
I do not understand how giving your mutual commitment and concentration to each other could be considered a cautious approach.
KenC

"mutual commitment" I mean when we removed our profiles. We had more time to pay our attention to each other and analyze.

[Vaughn]

But of course, most don't want to marry an American anyway...

All joking aside, that's the truth laid bare.

[KenC]

Olga dear,
You failed to answer the question. 

Would it not be more of a risk to give your heart to someone before you met in person than after?
KenC

[Misha]

As I say before if a WM is so intent on finding RW then our social chat sites are much better for such a thing and are completely free to join from start.

I agree. Met my wife via a free Russian dating site (singles.ru part of the mamba network). Never encountered any of the women described in these forums (scammers, prodaters, etc...). Just normal women. Sure there was the odd prostitute and woman looking for a sponsor, but they were easy to spot as they specified what they wanted in their profiles.

[Ade]

All joking aside, that's the truth laid bare.

Yes it is. I think I've posted before that polls on RW sites showed that, if I remember correctly, less than 20% were interested in meeting an American man. You guys are certainly betting against the odds in all ways.

[OlgaH]

 If there really is any logic to finding love.
KenC

Actually yes when you use your brain, life experience and know exactly what you are looking for.

[Vaughn]

....polls on RW sites showed that, if I remember correctly, less than 20% were interested in meeting an American man.

I was thinking in more universal terms - which might knock the number down to < 0.2 %

Some of my wife's friends regarded the news as preposterous, when in fact - in light of all the
ups & downs, they were justified in seeing "us" as a red flag in itself. We're happy to prove them
wrong - but we never had that as a goal in mind.

 

[Misha]

Yes it is. I think I've posted before that polls on RW sites showed that, if I remember correctly, less than 20% were interested in meeting an American man. You guys are certainly betting against the odds in all ways.

That is why it is a numbers game. If you send out thousands of short messages, even if less than 20% are interested in meeting a foreigner, that will still leave you with hundreds of women potentially interested in meeting a foreigner.

[shakespear]

Which attitude? To say things openly as they are? I consider it's a plus.

We have a saying in the USA; "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Your "smugness" comes through in every post you make.  While you might consider it a "plus", trust me when I say most potential suitors won't.  Such an attitude can be a real turn off for both Russian and western men.   

[OlgaH]

Olga dear,
You failed to answer the question. 

Would it not be more of a risk to give your heart to someone before you met in person than after?
KenC

I don't think I failed   It just depends on a person.  

Whole our life is a risk starting from our conception And there is no any guarantee that a person who you met face to face before "commitment" and after spent  months and ever years face to face before commitment will be the same person after commitment  

[Ade]

We have a saying in the USA; "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Your "smugness" comes through in every post you make.  While you might consider it a "plus", trust me when I say most potential suitors won't.  Such an attitude can be a real turn off for both Russian and western men.   

Seems to me it would only be insecure men that would have problems with women like her.

FWIW.

 

[Misha]

I was thinking in more universal terms - which might knock the number down to < 0.2 %

Depends on the man. A younger, somewhat attractive foreigner, who knows some Russian will have a much higher success rate 

[Misha]

We have a saying in the USA; "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Your "smugness" comes through in every post you make.

Shakespear, if anything, I see your tone as smug, while RussianWind comes across to me as refreshingly honest and open. Perhaps, you should heed your own advice.

[Vaughn]

Shakespear, if anything, I see your tone as smug, while Bored1 comes across to me as refreshingly honest and open. Perhaps, you should heed your own advice.

He was answering RussianWind, not Bored1. Regardless, some folks want to be right even if it
means abandoning any sense of courtesy. 'Tain't for the thin skinned.

[Misha]

He was answering RussianWind, not Bored1. Regardless, some folks want to be right even if it
means abandoning any sense of courtesy. 'Tain't for the thin skinned.

My mistake. I corrected it in my post. Still, I see the smugness in the accuser, not the accused in this case.

[shakespear]

Seems to me it would only be insecure men that would have problems with women like her.

FWIW.

 

Congratulations Jaded - SEVEN forum members now have you on "ignore"

[groovlstk]

Congratulations Jaded - SEVEN forum members now have you on "ignore"

If you look at the posters who are most ignored, there's usually a strong distinction between those who are rude and offensive and those who speak plainly rather than blow smoke up people's butts. I would put both SJ and RW in the latter category.