western men of above average income??

[Sculpto]

I have been to your beautiful place. San Francisco is NOT cheap city, please do not tell this story!!

My childhood friends and myself did not dream to live with pensioner in old house in village, Sorry.   brave girl

I am biting my tongue.  Its bleeding a little.

I implore newbies to pay attention to this lovely   lady's comment.  

I was diggin fer gold
Then I got old
thought I'd be bold
find a gal to hold
but in the end
her cooch smellt of mold
and her heart was cold
thats when I told
I can't be consoled
and sent her away.

[Sculpto]

uppity

You are being way too nice.

[Sculpto]

The median household income in 2008 for San Francisco is $ 62,614 (source Calf. Department of Finance) and your right its not a cheap place to live! Reality is a hard road!

Compare that to the cost of housing.  People work to live here because it is an awesome place to live, great weather, amazing views, diverse and interesting culture...  80% of the residents are renters.  With very few exceptions I do not know ANY couples in the Bay Area where both partners do not work.  The odd exceptions I do know of are all immigrants from Mexico where the man is too damn macho to allow his wife to work, so, she stays home and cooks and cleans.. meanwhile they live in conditions most Americans would find totally unacceptable, yet, for them it is an upgrade from how they lived in Mexico.  BTW.. I know lots of very wealthy people.. in almost every case where there is a marriage.. both husband and wife work.

Anyway.. Brave Girl.. I present to you a shovel.. now go dig some gold.

[Sculpto]

right to be cautious and selective Brave Girl.

her profile says she is married.

Of course with contemporary AWs, they actually have earning power these days. Do you and your cohorts do, Brave Girl?

She is beautiful.. what else does she need? 

[JR]

her profile says she is married.

She is beautiful.. what else does she need? 

Eric, how do you know she's beautiful? Care to elaborate? You're in San Fran, she's been...maybe your paths have crossed?

[Jumper]

brave girl-
thank you, it is a very good question to explore!!!


and It makes one wonder if many of the  RW living in an average situation..is not just hoping, but *expecting*
for prince charming in the white  bugati to mistake the soviet block apartment complex, for the palace in Monaco, and pull up there..!!
 because afterall, she's pretty, knows a little french, italian ,or english, and must have cinderalla's glass slipper!??  


anyway the  assumptions actually illustrates well  the other point i was making in the referenced thread?
That many in FSU really do not truly understand the average income or lifestyle of a western citizen.
You assume *noone* can have a house and family on 49,999 income per year.
Yet, the average USA family income is less than that (and per capita the USA does not lag much in world family salaries?)
This *average family * ,represents in general a family with children and home.
so the MAJORITY of the people in this western  country, have a decent life (not one of a FSU village)
with  home and children on this income.
and certainly in the FSU... an *average* FSU family would do ok on this income.
 
now wether FSU women are relocating to live in an average situation?  is i suppose up to debate ?  LOL!!!


but it really isnt too debatable that most western men that can afford to actually be involved in this endeavor,
make at least average or over the average western  salary  and do not live in trailor parks.
We know many many AW/RW couples,, all are above average. Most are well above it.

Obviuosly location of city, for example Moscow or New York,
sqew salary ranges and living cost far from either countries "average"

The idea that the average westen family life,  in the *average* 50,000 to 70,000 range?(family)
is somehow beneath consideration for a similarly average FSU citizen ,is also full of strange assumption.
but perhaps a normal one?

This is the very basis for an awful lot of misconceptions and failures on both sides in this endeavor?

An average FSU citizen has a decent life, (many westerners assume wrongly that they don't)
 and won't be overly impressed with the same "average" life in the west!
(although most after experiencing reality of both worlds would see the benefit of the latter)
There are misconceptions on both sides for sure?




 Like others here, I make a good salary,and living, but would suspect based on numbers alone and misconceptions of salary vs debt.. and true cost of living.. many FSU women ,without living my families very decent life,
would write me off as a poor provider from such a *low* earnings number ,

although very very few American women would.

that's kind of amusing isn't it?

not amusing is that this issue completely ignores the partnership  part of the marriage equation.. =/

If a women in any country is single, but wishes to be married,.
obviously there is noone she has met that fits her critria yet??
 in personality, looks , ability to provide for  a family?

These are hers alone, and can range from realistic, to fantasy.
(a very small percentage of people in any country live very far above its average median income)
Hey, It's not hard to fathom that if deciding to relocate around the globe from thier home country,
an FSU woman might want to do so for something of real financial substance!!  
or marry a russian  ogilarch.. or new russian.. ? of course why not? that would be nice?
  
but the reality is , in her own country she hasnt met such,,
and would likely, like the average person , marry the man of average income,of someone she *cared* for and loved.

it shouldn't be hard to also imagine that the western men involved,
then might also hold some glimmer of misguided hope,
 that  the RW he is going to see,  may marry him as well for those reasons, the meaningful ones,
not just the *much better* or *only slightly better* lifestyle he  may provide.

its an ages old issue?
but one that these situations often puts a large spotlight on??






 

  

[elliott]

$49,999 - Sorry, but man cannot buy house and support family with this money.

:ohbrother:  Oh, for pete's sake, get a clue.

It is impossible!!

:ohbrother:  Oh, good grief.

My childhood friends and myself did not dream to live with pensioner in old house in village.

:ohbrother:  Oh, for crying out loud. 

I'm sure you dream of the Grace Kelly/Princess Di life.  Get in line.  It starts here on earth.  Come on down.

[Ade]

Explain why smart Russian Woman come to foreign country and pay for mans previous debts??   brave girl  

Because when you get married, his life becomes yours and yours his. You work together for a common goal; if you ever divorce you are entitled to a fair proportion of the assets you worked for together. If debt is something you are adverse to then the west is not a place for you as 99% of people have it, and for good reason too. Debt is not always or even usually a bad thing, at least not in a modern industrialized country.

Listen to what the others say about income. As a number it's meaningless and misleading by itself. I earned upwards of "quite a lot" last year but I live in one of the most highly taxed countries with a very high cost of living. If I lived 2 hours away in Sweden, earning the same, I would be much more well off financially than I am.

Having said that, you can live in poverty and be very happy especially if you are with someone you love. I know, as that's the kind of environment I grew up in. Money is incidental and for most people it will not and cannot buy you happiness, all it does is buy you things.

[remiel6]

Well I had a nice long post planned out, but SJ mentioned everything I was going to say only better and shorter too 

May I suggest look for a good man first, a man you like to be with and can love. Then look into other things. without the man it doesn't matter one iota how much money he makes.

[Ade]

Well I had a nice long post planned out, but SJ mentioned everything I was going to say only better and shorter too 

May I suggest look for a good man first, a man you like to be with and can love. Then look into other things. without the man it doesn't matter one iota how much money he makes.

If she's married like her profile says then maybe she's just found out about her husbands debt and is appalled by it. Or maybe she wants to spend all her earnings on shoes and handbags while he pays the house and car loans? Why should she, after all, it's his debt, right?

[Boethius]

I find this thread highly amusing.  Kudos to you, brave girl, for posting your thoughts.

Love is wonderful, SJ, but when you have kids to feed and clothe, and enroll in various sports (I just spent upwards of $2000 for ski equipment), and provide cell plans for them, and buy games for them at $60 a pop, etc., well, money is very, very, necessary.  I would have a difficult time living on $50,000 a year, and granted, I don't have to watch my pennies, but we're not extravagant, either.  I think that most couples with children would be watching their cash flow very seriously, and would do without a lot, at $50,000 a year.

brave girl, income is only one factor.  As SJ mentioned, taxation is another.  So is the area in which you live.  Whether your man has built up a great deal of equity in his home is another.  How much does he still owe on his home?  What is its fair market value?  What is his asset base?  Is he willing to spend that money?  Is his job stable?  Is he self employed?  Is he young/middle aged/old?  If young, is he ambitious?

On the other side are your expectations.  Do you like going out a lot, or are you a homebody?  Do you like expensive clothes, or are you happy to make do with less?  Are you ambitious?  Do you plan on working?  Do you want to have children?  Will you be happy with a man who is out earning a lot of money but is not home much because he is earning all that money?

I don't think brave girl's questions are out of line.  

[BillyB]

May I suggest look for a good man first, a man you like to be with and can love.  

It's not the man in the fight, it's the fight in the man that counts. A good man, rich in soul will take care of his wife and family the best he can even in bad times. He will do what it takes to find a job and would work jobs that would normally be humiliating to most people to keep his family fed.

If a rich man poor in soul becomes financially ruined, he will become a true loser in life. He will try to survive only for himself.

Find a man with a good heart and soul first. Maybe he's rich or maybe he lives a modest life but he will do his best for you and the family always with the resources he's got.

With everybody beating up on Brave Girl, will she come back for more of the same? Will she change her name to "Afraid Girl'? Will she disappear forever or will she battle back? Will she redeem herself and claim she sees the light? Stay tuned.......

[BC]

Looks like any RW with an iphone and credit card can maybe find out quite a bit about their AM 'beau'..

http://www.macworld.com/article/143926/2009/11/peoplefinders.html

AM can only guess about scammers, but RW can get the 'beef'.

[Ade]

I find this thread highly amusing.  Kudos to you, brave girl, for posting your thoughts.

Love is wonderful, SJ, but when you have kids to feed and clothe, and enroll in various sports (I just spent upwards of $2000 for ski equipment), and provide cell plans for them, and buy games for them at $60 a pop, etc., well, money is very, very, necessary.  I would have a difficult time living on $50,000 a year, and granted, I don't have to watch my pennies, but we're not extravagant, either.  I think that most couples with children would be watching their cash flow very seriously, and would do without a lot, at $50,000 a year.

One thing that I was incredibly naive about when I was growing up and dreaming of earning "big bucks" was how little difference money would actually make to how happy I was. The vast majority of problems in my life and the lives of others around me had and have very little to do with money.

I'll also say that no matter how much you earn (ignoring the obvious super rich), you almost always live up to your means, so there is always something you want but can't quite afford without saving for it.

Tailoring your lifestyle to your income is something everyone has to do and just because you can't afford the $500,000 Home Theatre, or the $100,000 BMW, or the latest Salomon ski equipment like those next door doesn't have to mean that your life is any less rich, fulfilling and happy.

You mention cell phones, expensive ski equipment and $60 games and say that money is necessary to buy them and that's right, it is. But are those things absolutely necessary for your families happiness? FWIW, I can assure you that I know many, many families that don't spend money on those things and are happy. Go figure.

I will admit though that it makes a difference whether you can afford the basic necessities in life comfortably; that is, food, clothing, heat and shelter. Once those are taken care of, I really do not think we with our 6 figures are any happier than someone earning in the low 5. Of course that point is moot as I doubt if anyone with such little money could do the international dating thing anyway.

[remiel6]

I might add that even if you have the money I do not think catering to your child's every whim and demand is doing him any favors in life. Yes children want things, but what do they really learn about life if their parents buy them everything they want all the time.
my concern is that such a woman not looking for a man to love at all. She's looking for someone to buy her a lifestyle. Whats wrong with that? Well I for one will absolutely guarantee a divorce and misery for the man she says "Oh, I love you your the one for me." Which in the case of a woman like this only means "oh you can buy me things." It sounds to me like a spoiled child at Christmas time imploring their parents that if they really loved them they would spend 9000 dollars on that cute monkey at the pet store that looks like the monkey in the cartoons they used to watch.
but again my opinions on such things are usually far from normal, but if most people enter a marriage with a view like this I am suddenly not shocked at the high divorce rates. Here's an idea if you want a 100,000 dollar BMW get a job when you get over here that helps to get one. Help your family out. Work together, what a strange concept that is.   

[brave girl]

No mention about finding someone to love...

Interesting how men with shallow pockets speak about BIG LOVE when topic is about finances??     brave girl

[GQBlues]

Seriously, beyond the cliches, who's afraid of having deeper pockets? It won't buy you happiness but it really isn't meant to. What it can do is provide a comfortable, stable living environment. For many, stability, satisfaction and comfort are prime ingredients in a happy life.

C'mon, what would you choose? A very happy married life living in a beautiful home facing the Malibu shores, or living a very happy life living in a modest home on the streets of skidrow?

I haven't yet met a person who dreamed of being poor.

[BC]

I haven't yet met a person who dreamed of being poor.

Ask some of the kids of rich folk.. you'd probably be surprised.

Of course wealth and a good balance in family life would be great, but it is often not the case.

[Jooky]

Brave Girl is unaware of how far $50 grand a year can stretch in most of the US, but how the heck did you guys leap from her comment of a man buying a home and supporting a family (sounds traditional to me) to talk of BMWs, $500,000 entertainment systems and $9,000 monkey toys?

It's comical to read about finding 'true love' and 'soulmates' from guys who seem to find it only with young hot babes from a different culture. The fat mama's back home aren't capable of 'love'? Maybe American Women don't have souls?

[BillyB]

Interesting how men with shallow pockets speak about BIG LOVE when topic is about finances??     brave girl

Interesting that all it takes for this to happen is for one woman in one post, speaking of BIG pockets to keep her and her friends happy while failing to mention love. What makes you happy was not part of the topic you created until you spoke of it. You changed the subject so other people did too.)))

Happy=money for some. Happy=love for others. Most people want both but at the end of your life, which really matters most? Can you answer that question Brave Girl or ignore the question like many RW would do when the answer isn't going to be pleastant for us to hear?

Jooky, we all got relatives that are fat and we love them dearly but men and women shouldn't be asked to romantically get involved with someone they aren't attracted to. We aren't talking about making friends. We are looking for lovers and we DO have to get turned on by their appearance. Unfortunately with some men and women we will lay in bed with anything if the price is right.

[Turboguy]

C'mon, what would you choose?

A very happy married life living in a beautiful home facing the Malibu shores,

or living a very happy life living in a modest home on the streets of skidrow?

I haven't yet met a person who dreamed of being poor.

What is the difference.  A very happy life is a very happy life and if I were very happy what more could I want?

A more interesting question might be, what would you prefer.   A moderatly happy life living in a a beautiful home facing the Malibu shores, drving a boxter and all the material things you could want or

A very happy life, living in an average home no on the Malubu shores driving a Malabu instead.    Frankly, I would take the later.

I can't say I ever dreamed of being poor but I never dreamed or cared about being rich either.

I have known lots of very rich, very unhappy people and lots of very poor very happy people.   Yes, I have known the reverse as well.  

Another interesting question might be:  What would you prefer.  Living a life with one of the most beautiful well built intelligent RW who had no feelings for you and only cared about the lifestyle you provided but did take care of you physically or an attractive slender woman who loved you to death and would stand by you through thick and thin?  

[Ade]

Brave Girl is unaware of how far $50 grand a year can stretch in most of the US, but how the heck did you guys leap from her comment of a man buying a home and supporting a family (sounds traditional to me) to talk of BMWs, $500,000 entertainment systems and $9,000 monkey toys?

Ever heard of exaggeration for emphasis?

Seriously, beyond the cliches, who's afraid of having deeper pockets? It won't buy you happiness but it really isn't meant to. What it can do is provide a comfortable, stable living environment. For many, stability, satisfaction and comfort are prime ingredients in a happy life.

C'mon, what would you choose? A very happy married life living in a beautiful home facing the Malibu shores, or living a very happy life living in a modest home on the streets of skidrow?

Of course, luxury and large disposable incomes are nice additions to a happy family life but they, in and of themselves, will not make a happy family. It's the implication by some like "Brave Girl" that they will that I find silly in the extreme particularly when she ridicules the people earning less than $50K.

I haven't yet met a person who dreamed of being poor.

Few do I guess, but then again those that dream of "being rich" would be better dreaming of being happy instead; and yes, they aren't mutually exclusive but a lot strive so hard trying to attain for the former that they totally miss the boat on the latter.

[Jooky]

Ever heard of exaggeration for emphasis?

Sure, but what's the point? The girl simply mentioned a husband who could buy a home and support a family. She hardly posted anything at all and you guys are fabricating this portrait of a gold digger out of thin air. At least it's entertaining.

Billy, I agree about appearances, and that makes my point. You're looking for love, but also someone who is physically attractive.

So what's wrong or more shallow about a woman looking for love, but also someone who can financially support her and a family? We all know that when most Russian women step into an agency they're looking for a better life, not just love. Russian bridal agency basics 101.

[groovlstk]

It's comical to read about finding 'true love' and 'soulmates' from guys who seem to find it only with young hot babes from a different culture. The fat mama's back home aren't capable of 'love'? Maybe American Women don't have souls?

I have to agree w/Jooky, I find it a little odd that men conveniently forget about their own superficial desires and transform into swooning John Keats whenever a RW like bravegirl brings up the dreaded money question. Only a few admit it but it's clear to me that men look to Russia and Ukraine because they can find a younger, more beautiful, more slim mate than they can in their own locale. Now comparitively, how superficial is that?

I also think most men know and accept the idea that they are going to be evaluated on their ability to provide during courtship, but then get touchy when someone like bravegirl tries to understand it in concrete terms, with specific $$ thresholds. As long as a woman states her desire in vague terms, most are OK with it, but specific $$ amounts results in widespread and comical panty-bunching 

[Turboguy]

It makes me wonder if it is really that critical to a RW to have a great lifestyle why the "looking for" parts of the profiles list things like age and height but don't list financial expectations.    I never answered an lisiting that said the woman was looking for a man 30-35 and would not have answered one that said a woman only wanted a man making $ 500,000 a year.   Personally I don't think most RW are looking for a rich man.   I had no problems with women turning me down because I wasn't rich.  I do think they value finacial security which is far different from being rich.   That can be a steady job, a house, a few bucks ahead and little debt.