Entitlement Attitude

[RussianWind]

If it's a welfare check, I would rather work; it's a self-esteem thing.

I agree. I wouldn't accept welfare either. But Misha's example is good, they make profit from their property, why not.

[Blues Fairy]

I agree. I wouldn't accept welfare either. But Misha's example is good, they make profit from their property, why not.

But then your original question is not relevant to the theme of this discussion.  We are talking of entitlements, i.e. money or other perks received for nothing.  Property dividends do not qualify as an entitlement. 

[RussianWind]

But then your original question is not relevant to the theme of this discussion.  We are talking of entitlements, i.e. money or other perks received for nothing.  Property dividends do not qualify as an entitlement. 

So that's why I asked the OP to provide some examples. I don't think he ment welfares either. Does he mean gifts to women? I doubt American women would act different 

[Mars]

Mars, when I read your posts earlier, I thought you were joking. Now I just understand that you are absolutely serious and you are having strong Russophobia.

No, you do not understand at all.  I have not Russophobia, whether considered in weak or strong form.

What I am, compared to many others who post here, is honest about what FSUW and men are like.  I do not sugar coat them as others do.

Why do I go to FSU to meet women?  The same reason as Willie Sutton gave.

Also, I think this thread could be a little more clear if posters realize there is somewhat of a dichotomy and focus on the one part of this that I think VWRW intended.

From her OP:  "People with the entitlement attitude typically take for granted what others do for them, and as a result, they often are perceived as ungrateful takers.  I do think there are many people who would dislike to live with an ungrateful taker. Accordingly, many men (maybe even the majority of them) might come to the conclusion that FSU women are not good life partners after living with them for a while. Sadly. Sad"

The two parts of the dichotomy are:

What you expect from (1) your dealings with your government and your employer and (2) from your dealings with private persons.

It would be useful for this thread to focus on number 2, I believe.

[RussianWind]

Just recalled an appropriate story. A friend of mine from France separated recently with his Frech girlfriend and I asked what happened. He said he realised she was more in his money than in him. One of examples he gave me - they planned to go to Turkey for vacations. He was ok to pay for her, he was ok to pay for her daughter but he strained himself when he was asked to pay for a daughter's boyfriend, a 20 y.o. guy who was already working himself 

[Gator]

Just recalled an appropriate story. A friend of mine from France separated recently with his Frech girlfriend and I asked what happened. He said he realised she was more in his money than in him. One of examples he gave me - they planned to go to Turkey for vacations. He was ok to pay for her, he was ok to pay for her daughter but he strained himself when he was asked to pay for a daughter's boyfriend, a 20 y.o. guy who was already working himself 

Or he was more into HIS money than into HER!?

These all-inclusive Turkey trips are inexpensive.  He already needed two rooms, one for the daughter.  The incremental cost of adding the boyfriend was maybe $500 or less.  That would represent a lot of money to a young French lad, yet it should be mere peanuts to a French man.  Example of "greedy." 

If he wants to be the patriarch of the family, invite the lad.  If he just wants a casual relationship with sex, find a new girlfriend. 

BTW, France is an example of an entitlement state with its social culture of employment guarantees, long vacations, etc.

[Gator]

The two parts of the dichotomy are:

What you expect from (1) your dealings with your government and your employer and (2) from your dealings with private persons.

It would be useful for this thread to focus on number 2, I believe.

I am confused.  First, this is not a dichotomy as the two are not contradictory.  Second, an employer is a private party. 

[Mars]

OK Gator, just correct the words I used.  You know what I am getting at.

[RussianWind]

Or he was more into HIS money than into HER!?

I do not know Gator but I personally find the situation strange.
They are colleagues, probably get the same sallary but he is responsible for all expenses and even for a guy who has own income 

As far as I understand it was just one example.

[Gator]

I do not know Gator but I personally find the situation strange.
They are colleagues, probably get the same sallary but he is responsible for all expenses and even for a guy who has own income 

It does make it strange that the two earn the same salary.  I would see this being totally expected by a RW whose salary was much smaller than the French man's, and the young boyfriend perhaps earning even less.

Europe has always been ahead of America with the concept than men and women pay their own way.  We have a expression for it, "going Dutch."

In this case, perhaps this woman has always asked men to pay and stays with the men who do.  Other women would never ask.  Anyway, it seems she pushed the man past his breaking point.  If she is pretty and clever, she will find another.     

As far as I understand it was just one example.

That is a limitation of these discussions.  Each of us is different, and we can not generalize.  Not even about RW being stubborn because I once met a non-stubborn RW.     [BF, Just kidding]

We can convey our individual experiences, yet we must not think they are perfect because our sample size is small or biased.  for example, all my friends voted for McCain, yet Obama is my president.   

[Misha]

I do not know Gator but I personally find the situation strange.

So do I. Sorry, the young man in question would certainly have parents or relatives or somebody. To be asked to pay for his trip would indicate to me that he was being used as a cash cow. I wouldn't have paid for it either.

[groovlstk]

So do I. Sorry, the young man in question would certainly have parents or relatives or somebody. To be asked to pay for his trip would indicate to me that he was being used as a cash cow. I wouldn't have paid for it either.

Based on the story's face value, I'd do the same. This smacks of a pro dater inviting all her friends to dinner on her foolish suitor's dime.

[BillyB]

Or he was more into HIS money than into HER!?

These all-inclusive Turkey trips are inexpensive.  He already needed two rooms, one for the daughter.  The incremental cost of adding the boyfriend was maybe $500 or less.  That would represent a lot of money to a young French lad, yet it should be mere peanuts to a French man.  Example of "greedy." 

If he wants to be the patriarch of the family, invite the lad.  If he just wants a casual relationship with sex, find a new girlfriend. 

I can't agree with that unless we have more info. I have seen mothers doing all they can to get their daughter a boyfriend and keeping him. Maybe the daughter is ugly or has a bad attitude and that's why she has a hard time holding on to men.

Some of these mother's will drain their family's resourses to keep the daughter's boyfriend happy. Spoiling him is not preparing him for a life of responsibilty and marriage with the daughter. If I had a daughter, I would ask her boyfriend to take out the trash before inviting him on an all expense paid vacation. He needs to prove to me he will pull a load within the family first before I pull him anywhere.

[vwrw]

to the OP:

I do not understand your theory. What communistic ideas in the past have to do with todays living?

First of all, the part of my post you quoted is neither my theory nor a theory at all. That is the researchers’ conclusion which was made based on the results of a study.  The study was conducted by Mueller and Clarke. Its title is “Political-Economic Content and Sensitivity  to Equity: Difference Between The US and the Transition Economics of Central and Eastern Europe”, Academy of Managerial Journal  (June 1998)

I did not read the report, just the conclusion which was cited in my textbook. Therefore, I cannot guarantee that the study’s method and its questions were reliable or valid, respectively. Since I am lacking free time and we do not have to make a “Death-or-Life” decision here and according to ethical rules, academic textbooks must be based on reliable sources, I assumed the study is reliable. 

[vwrw]

vwrw, I don't think we have to study twins to conclude that dependence on the government results in higher sense of entitlement and the Russians, who have a particular attachment to their nanny state, will most likely, on average, exhibit less self-reliant and more entitled attitude to various aspects of life. 

However, I don't see how this sense of entitlement will play into the relationships. 

From my point of view, examples of entitlement attitude hurting a relationship would be an individual demanding from her or his partner to provide a certain level of life style(desired outcome) while s/he contributes little (input) to attaining the necessary  fanatical standing. Or, when a person demands romantic events in his/her relationship, but s/he does little to create the events.  In other words, when a person wants something from his/her life (and that is good), but s/he does not want to make the appropriate efforts to achieve what s/he wants (because that is difficult) and s/he expects others to provide him/her with what s/he *has right to*, I think such behavior is a manifestation of entitlement attitude and it can hurt a relationship, if not submerge the relationship in hell.

[vwrw]

The two parts of the dichotomy are:

What you expect from (1) your dealings with your government and your employer and (2) from your dealings with private persons.

It would be useful for this thread to focus on number 2, I believe.

Mars, you are right when telling that this thread was intended to discuss  whether the entitlement attitude of FSU people is only identifiable in dealing with the government and employers or the attitude expands on to personal relationships too. 

I believe  people strive to have consistency among their attitudes. That is why I am inclined to think that people  who have a “ they or you - must - make -my desire -come -true” mindset  would apply this statement toward their government, their employer and eventually to their partners. 
 

[Blues Fairy]

examples of entitlement attitude hurting a relationship would be an individual demanding from her or his partner to provide a certain level of life style

You mistook me; I did not mean to say I didn't know how the entitlement attitude in relationships may manifest itself.  I meant to say I was unsure that being accustomed to dependency on the government would automatically translate into a tendency to take things for granted in a relationship. 

[Vaughn]

If I had a daughter, I would ask her boyfriend to take out the trash before inviting him on an all expense paid vacation. He needs to prove to me he will pull a load within the family first before I pull him anywhere.

THANK YOU, BillyB !! There's a particular young man courting my daughter who definitely
harbors the "entitlement" attitude - your thought here has rekindled my own approach to a dilemma.

My wife, bless her soul, lives and breathes by the old adage, "Ain't No Free Lunch."

[RussianWind]

First of all, the part of my post you quoted is neither my theory nor a theory at all. That is the researchers’ conclusion which was made based on the results of a study.  The study was conducted by Mueller and Clarke. Its title is “Political-Economic Content and Sensitivity  to Equity: Difference Between The US and the Transition Economics of Central and Eastern Europe”, Academy of Managerial Journal  (June 1998)

It was written almost TWELVE years ago, everything is completely different now.
Second - they are taking the Transition period, it was a complete mess that time. People had to find the way how to survive. 1998 - a year of the default in Russia. Workers of big plants had to wait for months to recieve their wages or they could take goods. I remember workers of one plant were offered to take pipes instead of money! High level of unemployment. Many applyed for a welfare. I would take this book only with a historical approach.

[Seeker]

From your experiences, do you believe FSU women have the entitlement attitude?

People with the entitlement attitude typically take for granted what others do for them, and as a result, they often are perceived as ungrateful takers.  I do think there are many people who would dislike to live with an ungrateful taker. Accordingly, many men (maybe even the majority of them) might come to the conclusion that FSU women are not good life partners after living with them for a while. Sadly.

It is not a man/woman thing.  Or a FSU/Western (or Eastern or Northern or Southern thing)  My experience (as a lurker, human, reading thing   ) has been that people are the same everywhere.  Maybe each area might be growing through its own current experience, that I can see as being a difference.  But people are the same everywhere.  Motivations, dreams, goals, and ideals are formed from a mix of different sources of course.  But as people, we all want the same things.  And entitled people exist everywhere, whether they deserve to feel it or not.

[tfcrew]

 
My wife works at Kroger.
She sees all these people [many fat asses]
with gold necklaces and diamond rings on every finger and they are  buying cases of cokes and bags of potato chips with food stamps.
This was unheard of in the Soviet.

found this....

http://www.worldbank.org/html/prddr/trans/mar95/pgs1-4.htm

[Blues Fairy]

It was written almost TWELVE years ago, everything is completely different now.

Oh yeah?  People suddenly learned en masse to save for their retirement, pay all their medical bills themselves, pay for school for the kids (not the bribes but full-blown tuition), leave their parents' home at 18 and never count on their help? 

[Seeker]

Learning is a slow process.  It is ironic in some ways.  Some areas (countries) have little history, but after a few hundreds of years they are considered established and old.  And they became a nation.  Other areas have an ancient history, but because their country is new (in a sense) they are perceived as having no history or culture.  It has always confused me.  How can we exclude ourselves from a world we are all a part of, just based on where we were born?

Some things we learned because we had to, and some things we now have to learn because we are growing and learning just like everyone else.  It is a bigger world now than the one we were born into.

I guess my question is why are we seeing things as divided by culture and politics, and less as being caused by the differences we all treasure about ourselves?  The things that make us all different.  We are individuals and we are proud of or personal individuality.  And we should be.

I will quote here....

"Oh yeah?  People suddenly learned en masse to save for their retirement, pay all their medical bills themselves, pay for school for the kids (not the bribes but full-blown tuition), leave their parents' home at 18 and never count on their help?"

Sounds like my life, and it sucked.  And I had a few hundred years of a so called solid society to fall back on.    I do not ridicule this society, I just realize it is subject to the same pains of growth as any other.  And we all are growing, the only option in this world is to stagnate and die.  And no ideal is perfect.

Russian Wind (and Blues Fairy) ... Just so you know, "we" (cultural we) have not gotten it right either.  Any of us.

[RussianWind]

Oh yeah?  People suddenly learned en masse to save for their retirement, pay all their medical bills themselves, pay for school for the kids (not the bribes but full-blown tuition), leave their parents' home at 18 and never count on their help? 

Pension and medical systems have nothing to do with unemployed welfare.
Pension funds are formed from your own salary, you just get it not at once but later when you become older. This is in any country. Medical insurance has similar foundation. People get what they earned before, not for free. Many use private medical centers not covered with insurance. Some who can afford it use private schools. Yound people try to earn money themself and yes, if they can do it, they leave parents' homes. It was twelve years ago and twenty years ago, no difference. 

[Blues Fairy]

Pension funds are formed from your own salary, you just get it not at once but later when you become older. This is in any country. Medical insurance has similar foundation.

Charming