Entitlement Attitude

[vwrw]

Today, while I was reading theories of motivation, I learned that according to a study, the legacy of communism that people in Eastern Europe  have to live with is the rampant entitlement attitude. That is, FSU people expect outcomes to be greater than their inputs. From your experiences, do you believe FSU women have the entitlement attitude?

People with the entitlement attitude typically take for granted what others do for them, and as a result, they often are perceived as ungrateful takers.  I do think there are many people who would dislike to live with an ungrateful taker. Accordingly, many men (maybe even the majority of them) might come to the conclusion that FSU women are not good life partners after living with them for a while. Sadly.

[Mars]

Yes, I agree 100% that FSU women (and men) have the entitlement attitude.

Dozens of examples.  Simplest has been reported here many times.  A WM can buy a hundred dinners for a hundred different FSU men and women; and would receive no more than a dozen or so thank you's.

They view that the WM has the money, while they don't.
They feel that with their superior intelligence, education and work effort, they should really have as much money as the WM.
Thus, when WM buys them something, it is just to right a wrong, thus no thanks needed.

Also, it is common that the average FSU person travels to vacation sites much more frequently than USA people.  Many USA people have never even travelled outside their home state; not to even mention to places like Turkey, Egypt, etc.

Ordinary USA folks pay taxes, some of which is sent as Aid to FSU places like Ukraine, etc.  These USA folks cannot afford to take vacation trips to other countries.  Yet ordinary folks in Ukraine, etc., do take vacation trips.  And they frequently get 4 weeks of vacation time or more whereas many USA working stiffs get zero, 1 week or 2 weeks.

I have mentioned this to FSU people who were on such trips.  They merely sneer and say: "Then don't work so much and pay so much taxes."  While they are also thinking: But please keep the aid money flowing in.

[BillyB]

From your experiences, do you believe FSU women have the entitlement attitude?

Yes, many RW do. Luckily not all. My ex fiancee is a humble woman and when her life is said and done, she will have given more than she has took. Her beauty, class, elegance and grace did not suffer one bit due to her humility. If I had to put a price on the value of her character, it would be a million dollars. I think I'm lucky to be communicating with another woman like that now.  

Although I have something bad to say about FSU people, I will say some of the best people I've met in the States are from the FSU. Two of my most trusted employees are Ukrainian. They are from an older generation who's been discriminated against in the FSU based on their religion.

Another poster posted elsewhere that he wondered if RW wanting generosity meant they want it from the man's heart or wealth. Close your eyes now Global. Most RW want generosity from the man's wealth....at least many of the ones I've talked to on dating sites and on dates. Many are bold and tell me they are young and beautiful and will find the man who will give them what they want. They make it no secret of their desires. They also say it's their way of testing if a man is serious about them. Two women can ask me for money on the internet. One a true scammer and one who wants financial support to prove to her I'm serious and only then she'll be truly focused and devoted to me yet I still can't tell which is which. Why take chances, go find a good woman like my ex fiancee or just resort to having fun like a single man.

[BC]

Seems to me, entitlement issues are a 'tit for tat' thing.

[BillyB]

Seems to me, entitlement issues are a 'tit for tat' thing.

In a way it is but I predict, at least with most men in this forum, all they want is a good woman, happy family and they are willing to work hard and give what it takes to achieve that. Not everyone of those men are going to be millionaires but what they desire isn't out of this World either. They wear their heart on their sleeve and are vunerable to women with insincere or selfish intentions. Good women aren't going to milk those men dry to wear the latest fashions but take care of her man's finances sometimes better than the man himself.

[Dave13]

Different attitudes are based on the person, not your nationality!

[Blues Fairy]

Yes, I agree 100% that FSU women (and men) have the entitlement attitude.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI[/youtube] :evil:

[GQBlues]

LOL, Blues...After I read the OP I was actually thinking of the very same video before I ventured down to your post. LOL! Let me usher in instead.

Well, obviously the entitlement attitudes for California students will need to take a backseat to illegals, pork and earmarks on his Highness' Stim Bill as the state university Regents decided to up the tuition next semester another whopping 35%. This, on top of drop classes/subjects, furloughs, etc...

For the topic, based on VWRW's definition, personally NO. When I do things for my wife, she may not be as emotional as most AWs I know do but that's likely more a case of personal personality than national identity.

[vwrw]

Different attitudes are based on the person, not your nationality!

After an examination of twins and adopted children, scientists concluded that attitudes, which to some extent are beliefs in particular set of assumptions, are formed to a large degree under influence of environment.  Nationality is a part of the environment in terms of culture, traditions and language. As such, nationality influences the attitude of its people.  Religion is, as attitudes are, a belief in particular set of assumptions and is one example illustrating nationality influence.

[Dave13]

 For every study on human nature you can find another study which has the exact opposite view.

[Blues Fairy]

After an examination of twins and adopted children, scientists concluded that attitudes, which to some extent are beliefs in particular set of assumptions, are formed to a large degree under influence of environment.

vwrw, I don't think we have to study twins to conclude that dependence on the government results in higher sense of entitlement and the Russians, who have a particular attachment to their nanny state, will most likely, on average, exhibit less self-reliant and more entitled attitude to various aspects of life. 

However, I don't see how this sense of entitlement will play into the relationships.  Being used to depend on the government for your retirement does not necessarily mean you will expect your significant other to pay for all your other needs.  I imagine that depends more on how you were raised, e.g. whether your parents pampered you or raised you as a work horse. 

[Gator]

My wife plans to work.  She seeks opportunities, not gifts.

[RussianWind]

Mars, when I read your posts earlier, I thought you were joking. Now I just understand that you are absolutely serious and you are having strong Russophobia. Are you sure you need a FSU partner? I imagine her life with you will become a nightmare.

To others: if we are such awful bastards, why you are so stubborn in looking to our direction; where is your logic? 

Men are men and under the same conditions will act the same way. Recall the hurricane Katrina, I was shoked with the number of marauding cases. And we thought that in the US only civilized citizen lived  Remove butter from American shops and tomorrow it will appear in black market with double price. Mechanisms are the same. Replace American women with Ukrainians and you will be amazed how quickly they change! 

to the OP:

Today, while I was reading theories of motivation, I learned that according to a study, the legacy of communism that people in Eastern Europe  have to live with is the rampant entitlement attitude. That is, FSU people expect outcomes to be greater than their inputs. From your experiences, do you believe FSU women have the entitlement attitude?

I do not understand your theory. What communistic ideas in the past have to do with todays living?

People with the entitlement attitude typically take for granted what others do for them, and as a result, they often are perceived as ungrateful takers.

I believe you have some fine examples to extend your thought. What do those others do for Russians?

[I/O]

  Popcorn anyone?

[Mir]

And we thought that in the US only civilized citizen lived

You must be joking

America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.
(Oscar Wilde
Irish dramatist, novelist, & poet

[Turboguy]

My wife asked my opinion about this question before posting the poll.  My first thought was no, they don't.   With my wife I see someone who will work harder than anyone I have ever seen for something she wants which is hardly an entitlement attitude but then I thought more about it.

In America I see the entitlement attitude with many or most of the welfare people.  I have often felt they grow up in a welfare family and do feel the world owes them everything they want.  I have a feeling for many their children will grow up in this culture and live their life mostly the same.

I can see some similarity in a welfare family and someone who grew up in a communistic state and even those who were born after the fall of the USSR would grow up in a family that adopted a welfare or entitlement attitude.   Just as not every child in a welfare family will grow up to spend his life on welfare I am sure there would be exceptions in someone who grew up under communism.   I would consider my wife an exception or at least not having an entitlement attitude but I could also see a possibility that some of what we see as serial dating could really be an entitlement attitude. 

[boaterguy]

I voted yes. The reason is this. I believe the majority of FSUW who persue a foreign husband have this attitude. My wife had a bit of it in the beginning but has since disappeared.

Now! If you talk about overall populations I would say the majority of people in the USA have a worse entitlement attitude than the FSU. I don't want to start a political debate,but! For the 1st time in the history of the USA the majority of the people voted in a government with socialist attitudes(IE the entitlement crowd). I am appalled at most of the youth today(even my own kids) entitlement attitude. The welfare crowd speaks for itself!

[Chicagoguy]

Maybe in Communist times there was more entitlement attitudes but the people I know in Russia now work very hard for their money. And a few have made a good deal of it.

These Turkey and Egypt vacations so many take are really pretty good deals. Not real expensive. At least the ones I have seen. And as for Americans not traveling ? It seems I can bump into Americans everywhere on this planet.

None of the women I dated acted like they were entitled. Quite the opposite really. Always saying "It is too expensive". And my Russian wife is the same. Saying
"we don't need that". "You can but that if you want it but I will never use it".

[RussianWind]

I want to change the poll question. If you can get the same money and not to work, will you continue working or will you do what you enjoy instead? Stand up those who are going to work

C'mon, Turkey and Egypt vacations are not expensive at all. Better service and less expensive then in local resorts. You have higher flight prices, here they use charters.

[boaterguy]

I want to change the poll question. If you can get the same money and not to work, will you continue working or will you do what you enjoy instead? Stand up those who are going to work

C'mon, Turkey and Egypt vacations are not expensive at all. Better service and less expensive then in local resorts. You have higher flight prices, here they use charters.

This part of my life should tell you a little about my attitude. I've learned alot of business sense through the hard knocks of life. When I was in my 20's I was screwed out of an expensive piece of equipment. It's a long story but I lost around 30K on it.(I had rebuilt it from the ground up) I went to the government legal aid department for help. I was offered food stamps! I just rolled my eyes and walked out!

[Turboguy]

I want to change the poll question. If you can get the same money and not to work, will you continue working or will you do what you enjoy instead? Stand up those who are going to work

I think with most of the unemployment programs here most people can get almost the same money and not work.  Most don't hunt for a job very hard until their unemployment is about to run out. 

Personally I would work.   I would probably work if I made less money working than not. 

[Blues Fairy]

I want to change the poll question. If you can get the same money and not to work, will you continue working or will you do what you enjoy instead? Stand up those who are going to work

Depends on which form this money comes in.  If it's dividends from a successful investment portfolio, I would not work and spend more time managing the portfolio.  If it's a welfare check, I would rather work; it's a self-esteem thing.

[Handycam72]

I will say from a British viewpoint that the Entitlement Attitude is alot bigger here, especially from the welfare point. The word Entitlement is used alot, "I am only getting what I am entitled to" is a common phrase here.

Also I would add that Eastern European workers are considered to be the hardest workers, and are very proud people. They would rather take on a low paid job than receive any government handout, jobs that native British will think is below them. Just spend time in any Hotel in London or any other major city here in Britain and I am sure you will find most of the staff are Eastern European or have a look around the building site for the Olympics, again alot of Eastern Europeans, yet you have British people complaining that they are stealing the jobs they feel they are entitled too. Often using "they are cheap labour" as a reason why they are not working and the Eastern Europeans are. Well I believe its called market forces, the market will pay what it sees as the market value. If you price yourself out of the market then that is your own fault.

Our benefits system (Welfare) is in total chaos due to the amount of dependents, people who have the "Its only what I'm entitled too" attitude. Of course there are people from FSU and other countries who are queueing up to get into Britain just to get on the state handouts. Just have a look at the port in Calais, France, and the channel tunnel. I feel the Entitlement Attitude is more common in the West than FSU.

[Gator]

I want to change the poll question. If you can get the same money and not to work, will you continue working or will you do what you enjoy instead? Stand up those who are going to work

I have an interesting story that contains your answer.

In the early 1980s my company hosted a one year visit by a ranking official from China.  The US Dept. of Commerce sponsored the program and we only had to promise him a job while in the US.  Because I had UN experience, my partners asked me to be his mentor.  He even stayed in my home with my family.

Although this Chinese official was a supervisor of 200 engineers in Peking, he was so innocent in the ways of the West.  For example, I picked him up at the train station and the ride in my car was his first ever in an automobile.  

His English was subpar yet we had some interesting discussions about the cultural revolution, etc.  Regarding worker's attitudes, he commented how he had more workers than work, and most of his employees could complete their work in a short amount of time each day.   The salaries were minimal (ranged from $2-3 per week or per month, I forget) and much of life's necessities such as housing and food was guaranteed, so money was not an incentive regardless of how much an employee worked.  

To get to your question, Russian Wind, what did the Chinese employees do with their surplus time?  About half slept at their desk (or stretched out the little work over the day).  The other half looked for more work or thought of ways to accomplish more (become more efficient, expand the office's mission, etc.) even though doing this had no monetary rewards.  BTW, no one stayed late after work.

My favorite type of employee was someone who did his/her job well and looked around for more to do.  However, my experience is that less than half of Americans work this way.   This minority of American workers, unlike their industrious Chinese comrades, will even stay late and work extra hours without pay.   Yes, they grow up to be Turboguy.
 
So who feels more entitled: American or Chinese workers?  In this example, it would be the Americans on average and not the Communist Chinese, although a few Americans would work even harder than the Chinese.  What explains it?  I don't know.

I would appreciate a few observations by those RW who were working during the Communist era (or what your parents say).

[Misha]

I want to change the poll question. If you can get the same money and not to work, will you continue working or will you do what you enjoy instead? C'mon, Turkey and Egypt vacations are not expensive at all. Better service and less expensive then in local resorts. You have higher flight prices, here they use charters.

Isn't that what many Muscovites do? They rent their apartments and then go live off of their rental income in places such as Egypt.