Where to find the 'best' woman

[vwrw]

You are intelligent and could make this a productive exercise.  However, your opening post in this thread did not suggest profound thinking.

Gator, I agree with your evaluation of Mars.

[Turboguy]

There are Muslim women in the FSU.  Perhaps he can find a short, fat, big assed, Muslim RW who likes  knifes and who loves to cook cat for dinner and have a bit of all cultures rolled into one.   Diversity is popular these days. 

[Faux Pas]

I do not feel entitled that anyone must give me anything.

Who said anything about giving anything to anybody? Can one not earn and be entitled? HiTech do you not feel you deserve the best woman, the best life ect.?

You do not see this  statement  as a result of people feeling entitled?
HiTech

Entitlement isn't necessarily a negative connotation. I don't see where entitlement and my statement of which you refer to be related. Blaming others or others faults for one's own failures to entitlement, I do not see the connection.

[Jumper]

I agree with you, AJ it is easy to perceive that there are more thin and good-looking women there among FSU women. Statistics also supports this perception. However, while I think that overall FSUW and AW are similar, they are not exactly the same. I admire mentality of few Russia women (who are like Mies or BF), but with exclusion of the few FSU women, I favor AW, and I find them very likable. 

What does the abbreviation VMRW stay for? Is it very mean RW?   

LOL!!
no Very Married,since the Very Watching has been out of date for some time


and yes I would agree that nothing wrong with AW at all..
 i never limited my search to RW *only*,
For myself ,having lived in europe long term, it  really was expanding the dating pool a bit.

I would have to say ,that certainly while living in most any of the european cities i have,
there did seem to be more single availible women, statistically that doesnt make sense though.
So i cant explain that,and it perhaps was only *perception* shaped by the fact i do find
someone from another culture initially more interesting.
(maybe traveling my life has seeded that as well)

[vwrw]

I would have to say ,that certainly while living in most any of the european cities i have,
there did seem to be more single availible women, statistically that doesnt make sense though.
So i cant explain that,and it perhaps was only *perception* shaped by the fact i do find
someone from another culture initially more interesting.

At first, I was going to object by saying that if a magical power converted  all the single over-weighted AW into thin women, this magic would increase the pool of women available for dating. But then, I thought that the magical power would simultaneously convert  all the single over-weighted AM into thin men who would take away many women out of the pool.
So, you are probably right when saying that ordinary people can be perceived as interesting or extraordinary by someone who is from another culture, and this perception illusively expands the pool of interesting available people. Your suggestion can also explain my favoritism toward AW.

[Misha]

I would have to say ,that certainly while living in most any of the european cities i have,
there did seem to be more single availible women, statistically that doesnt make sense though.

Why? Men and women can have different migration patterns. In Russia, men are more likely to find jobs in some cities, or may stay in villages to help parents, while women will prefer to live in other cities and may have an easier time moving to a city.

[HiTech]

HiTech do you not feel you deserve the best woman, the best life ect.?

No I do not feel I deserve the best woman,the best life, nor the best of anything.

I do feel very lucky and great-full I found her.

HiTech

[Jumper]

Why? Men and women can have different migration patterns. In Russia, men are more likely to find jobs in some cities, or may stay in villages to help parents, while women will prefer to live in other cities and may have an easier time moving to a city.

Misha,,
 maybe so,,but i was refering to most any european city (my perception)
nothing so much to do with the FSU.  (though i noted it there also)
Cities like Lisbon, Vienna, or most any german city, just seem to have more available single women , than a comparable  population  US city. but i do think it may just be personal perception.
Its like an australian friend of mine here, just his accent *might* skew his perception? as it draws interest from women that would otherwise likely not speak with him "first"?


I would say that some US cities seem to have more available single women as well, so it isnt that big of anomaly.
Statistically though, it would be a very small percent different?  so it is likely more  a perception than  reality.?


VWRW-
to be brutally honest,, yes much of the US population (men and women)
even in their twenties and 30's are carrying 10 to 20 pounds extra.
Thin has been the standard of beauty and fitness for awhile.(although through the centuries it has changed)
As shallow as it is, I doubt this whole "RW business" would have grown so fast , or become  nearly as big,
if that wasn't the case.
 
Sure the other dynamics of economy ,, and ,.lonely hearts able to dream of simply writing and quickly finding a wife,
 would still certainly have drawn  the moths to the flame!!
but i'm not convinced the numbers of moths would have been as large..
if the flame at home was not so overshadowed by the agency depiction of just how bright the flame was to the east ?
 and the initial reports of the moths that flew there  confirming it..  



FSU= one big bug zapper!  
 


(i'm joking of course,, but it is a funny thought?)

[Rina_G]

The 'Entitlement' topic has got me wondering.
Particularly after reading Ludmila's post which indicates the FSUW entitlement attitude is a deeply ingrained cultural fact.
For those men whom this attitude grates on; what are the alternatives?

1. Chose from among fat AW.
2. Chose from among short Filipino women.
3. Chose from among big a$$ed SA women with hot tempers and possibly knives.
4. Chose from among Asian women who likely have even stranger cultural traits.
5. Chose from among Muslim women who are going deep undercover until time comes.
6. Suck it up and stay with the FSUW.

 :ROFL:Mars!
many thanks
+100!
Pretty depressing.

[JR]

There is this perception of ALL Americans being fat because there are so many that are. But in fact with our population base about twice that of Russia's and six times that of Ukraine's it is easy to find thin, attractive, educated, cultured women to date right here.

See a few fat women (or men) and soon you are picking them out of the crowd. The same happens when you get a new car. Before the new car you never noticed that particular model, after you see them everywhere!

I have always said and will continue to state that the reason we men go there is that the younger, prettier women in the FSU are willing to date and marry older, less attractive men then their American counterparts.

Mars, the common demoninator in all your failures (and successes) is you. If something isn't working look inward, make no excuses or justifications and make necessary changes.

Depressed? Go to a comedy show. Hit a few homeruns here on the home field. Do something that scares the shit out of you and pat yourself on the back for puching thru it.

[Mars]

Mars, the common denominator in all your failures (and successes) is you. If something isn't working look inward, make no excuses or justifications and make necessary changes.

Depressed? Go to a comedy show. Hit a few homeruns here on the home field. Do something that scares the *snip* out of you and pat yourself on the back for puching thru it.

JR, here is my original post at the top of this thread:

" The 'Entitlement' topic has got me wondering.  Particularly after reading Ludmila's post which indicates the FSUW entitlement attitude is a deeply ingrained cultural fact.
For those men whom this attitude grates on; what are the alternatives?

1. Chose from among fat AW.
2. Chose from among short Filipino women.
3. Chose from among big a$$ed SA women with hot tempers and possibly knives.
4. Chose from among Asian women who likely have even stranger cultural traits.
5. Chose from among Muslim women who are going deep undercover until time comes.
6. Suck it up and stay with the FSUW.

Pretty depressing."

Now, I see nothing there that mentions anything about my failures or successes.

The entitlement attitude is the thing that depresses me; and it would depress me beforehand (if I were just now reading about it as a complete newbie would be), even if I had never been to FSU to experience it.

Before the discussion thread started by VWRW, I had hoped that the entitlement attitude of FSUW was something that could be avoided if one were just to find the right woman.

However, after reading the excellent background post by Ludmila, I came to realize that the entitlement attitude was very deeply ingrained.  Although there were many attempts to poo poo the entitlement attitude by women posters here and the 'male apologists' I didn't see anything posted that could refute the truth of what Ludmila had said.

And I am not blaming Ludmila for her post.  In fact I think it would be great if both women and men here stopped fluffing over the obvious drawbacks of both FSUW and WM and started telling more of the truth.   I am not talking about drawbacks in terms of more backbiting and putting down on a man or woman or trying to force someone off the boards for posting unpopular thoughts.

But more logic and postings based on cultural traits that are well understood and accepted by independent and objective observers, as opposed to ideas promoted by people about themselves or those who are willing to overlook the obvious (and even deny) about those they are trying to woo.

[Mars]

There is this perception of ALL Americans being fat because there are so many that are. But in fact with our population base about twice that of Russia's and six times that of Ukraine's it is easy to find thin, attractive, educated, cultured women to date right here.

I do not believe in the ALL that you state.

However, I strenuously disagree with your ' it is easy to find thin, attractive, educated, cultured women to date right here.'  It is simply not true.

Yes, there exist 'thin, attractive, educated, cultured women right here.

But, 'to date'  not true at all.

Reason: 

1) Most of these such women are quite happily married and their men are not about to let them go.

2) For those who are not married; since men overwhelmingly desire thin women, each of these very few (proportionately) women have their pick from hundreds of men.

Further, there is virtually no way that these women could not take on a very haughty attitude.  It defies everything we know about human nature to even think that they would not.

So under no stretch of the imagination are such women 'easy to date.'
And most likely, the man would not enjoy such a date anyway.

Sure, sure I know that  many men here will brag that they regularly can or do date such women.  And I also have a bridge for sale.

[Mars]

I have always said and will continue to state that the reason we men go there is that the younger, prettier women in the FSU are willing to date and marry older, less attractive men then their American counterparts.

Yes, I completely agree, especially if you add the word 'slender.'
They don't even have to be younger for me and, in fact, I do not seek inappropriately aged women.

[XMan]

I do not believe in the ALL that you state.

However, I strenuously disagree with your ' it is easy to find thin, attractive, educated, cultured women to date right here.'  It is simply not true.

Yes, there exist 'thin, attractive, educated, cultured women right here.

But, 'to date'  not true at all.

Reason:  

1) Most of these such women are quite happily married and their men are not about to let them go.

2) For those who are not married; since men overwhelmingly desire thin women, each of these very few (proportionately) women have their pick from hundreds of men.

Further, there is virtually no way that these women could not take on a very haughty attitude.  It defies everything we know about human nature to even think that they would not.

So under no stretch of the imagination are such women 'easy to date.'
And most likely, the man would not enjoy such a date anyway.

Sure, sure I know that  many men here will brag that they regularly can or do date such women.  And I also have a bridge for sale.

Mars wrote exactly what I was thinking, but he beat me to the punch.  

I dated one woman in particular that had exactly the "haughty attitude" Mars described, which became quite evident by the 3rd (and thankfully final) date.  She was a two-dimensional caricature that would have been funny in a situation comedy, but painfully not so in real life.  To use a movie reference, think about the woman that Tom Hanks dumped in order to pursue Meg Ryan in "You've Got Mail."  A nice parallel.  

I have met several women in the past year that I found to be intelligent, attractive (but not remotely beautiful by a universally accepted definition of beauty), and interesting.  Of course each of them was married, and with good reason.  

For those who regularly find attractive (and I emphasize NOT beauty queens, not sex goddesses, just attractive), intelligent, interesting AW's to date, then save yourself the tremendous efforts of finding something similar in the FSU, and go buy a ring.  Right Now.  If I could find it here, then hell yes, I would say let the other poor bastards spend huge amounts of time, effort, and cash searching somewhere in the FSU.  But trying to find it here is like trying to catch a bullet in the dark with a pair of pliers.  There is a better chance of AIG stock going to $200 per share, or the U.S. going back on the gold standard, or fusion generators solving the worlds energy demands and ending global warming.  You get the picture.

As a sidebar, but definitely related to this thread, I took a break for a while.  I figured it was just pointless.  I was in treadmill mode, picking up speed and going nowhere.  

But, I found one woman I am writing seriously, and here is why.  

She is attractive.  
She has the equivalent of a Masters degree.
She works long hours in a medical lab, but also works a second job that she actually enjoys because it is creative and it helps her support her daughter.  
She is not desperate to leave the Ukraine.  She would like to find the right man.  And she said she could never be intimate with a man that she was not in love with.  I like a woman who is honest up front.  
She writes letters about serious topics as well as everyday events.  
It may go absolutely nowhere.  I am not a WOVO man any more.  I want a backup plan (but have none at the moment).  
But we'll see.  
I cannot find a woman like that in the U.S. with a search warrant and a team of professional investigators.  
For those who can, my hat is off to you.  

[JR]

Mars, I don't know what pond you're fishing in but the one I date in theres plenty of slender, intelligent, educated and cultured women to choose from. Before you try to sell me your bridge come to my back yard and I'll prove it to you. PM me and we'll make the arrangements. I'll introduce you to more than you can handle.

I did not say that "all" AW are fat. I said that there is a perception that they all are. If slender is one of your primary requirements don't bring an FSUW here, they'll put on weight. Been there, done that.

I lived with the entitlement attitude for many, many years. From what I have lived, it is an absolute reality. But that does not mean that every FSUW has that attitude. Just as it does not mean that every cultured, educated, slender AM is married.

[Jumper]

m

[Misha]

Mars, I don't know what pond you're fishing in but the one I date in theres plenty of slender, intelligent, educated and cultured women to choose from.

Just came back from a Broadway show in New York. Can vouch that there are a great many slim and very attractive young women in New York, and they are not all Russian 

[JR]

m

AJ, what the hell did you do to your post?

America, Agerntina, Japan, Iran, Russia, France.....all the same. Good N Bad everywhere. Fat, short, tall, skinny, ignorant, intelligent...they can all be found everywhere you go. What you don't find in Western countries are plenty of 21 to 25 yo women advertising themselves for marriage to men twice their age and up.

Do FSU women put more effort into staying attractive longer? I'd say yes to that. But bring them to America and you might find that they will adopt some of our ways, like starting to wear sweatpants to the grocery store.

My central point is that men go to the FSU because they can attract a woman half their age and a lot prettier then they can in their own back yard not because they can't get a date here. That is just their excuse.

[Mars]

Typical discussion here:

Person 1:  It is almost impossible to find a 1970s Mercedes Sedan with no rust, a gas engine and with original blue paint.  Can anyone give advice or some leads here?

Person 2:  It is not true that such an auto is hard to find.  Just today I saw a 1970s red Mercedes and last week I saw a brown one.

Person 3:  OP is just a whiner and doesn't know where to look because my neighbor has a rusted 1970s Mercedes that he will sell cheap.

Person 4:  OP must be very lazy because he can get a gas powered Mercedes and change the engine to a diesel one.

Person 5:  OP is not only a whiner and lazy but he should know that the appropriate choice is actually a Ford.  Everyone should drive only Fords.

Person 6:  OP is so inflexible that he will never find an auto.  He should just continue living with his parents and drive their two speed powerglide.

Person 7: Actually there are tons of those specific cars you are looking for right in my hometown.  But, nevertheless, I am going to travel across the country to get mine in another town.

Person 1:  Person 2, can you show me in my OP where I asked about red and brown vehicles?

Person 2: Yes, of course.  It is all there.  Actually buses go almost everywhere in my town.

Person 1:  Person 3, I specifically stated that I didn't want a rusted car.

Person 3:  You can find that cheese you are looking for in Boston if you just look carefully.  And fresh bread is available in Houston.

Person 1:  Person 4, I have no skills nor desire to try to swap engines.

Person 4:  You really shouldn't be looking at cars at all if you are not willing to learn how to swap engines.  You are not up to owning a car.

Person 1:  Person 5, I think everyone has right to chose what they want.  I want Mercedes, not a Ford.

Person 5:  Well  you are seriously wrong about Fords because my uncle has driven only Buicks all his life and never has had a problem.

Person 8:  The fault is your country.  When you are smart like me and my countrymen, you will vote socialist and then 1970s Mercedes Sedans with no rust, a gas engine and with original blue paint will be much easier to find.

Person 9: Agree with number 8 and if you would learn German, your Mercedes will be much happier.

Person 10:  Actually the fault is right there if you would just look in the mirror.  What you see in the mirror is the reason for the paucity of 1970s Mercedes Sedans with no rust, a gas engine and with original blue paint

Person 11: You should stop looking for the car you want because you are frustrated.  Only when you get over your frustration in not finding this car will you be ready to find this car.

Person 12:  You are all stupid greedy WM and this discussion shows you know nothing about cars.  You don't understand the soul of cars and you think you can choose your car just because you have a driver's license.  In fact you can only be chosen by your car; but, of course, you just don't get it.

[HiTech]

I'm with Mars.

JollyRats, I am very curious, if you have no trouble dating slim all you want in a woman AW , why are you looking over seas?

HiTech

[SANDRO43]

Person 8. Why bother with a used Mercedes when you can get a super-hot new model ? I can recommend an honest FSU dealer .

Mercedes McLaren Mini SLR Concept Car (unofficial mock up)

Of course, if you're an old driver, you might find it a bit difficult to handle. Maintenance is rather high, too, but it may give you the ride of your lifetime .

[JR]

I'm with Mars.

JollyRats, I am very curious, if you have no trouble dating slim all you want in a woman AW , why are you looking over seas?

HiTech

Mars, you just stated the obvious, everyone has their own unique point of view which will produce a different take on any given set of circumstances. How boring would it be if we all simply fell into agreement with your original statement?

HiTech: Slim is not my only requirement. In America I typically date late thirties to early forties. In the FSU I will typically attract mid twenties to early thirties. The world is a big place, why limit your search?

[Jumper]

Mars, you just stated the obvious, everyone has their own unique point of view which will produce a different take on any given set of circumstances. How boring would it be if we all simply fell into agreement with your original statement?

HiTech: Slim is not my only requirement. In America I typically date late thirties to early forties. In the FSU I will typically attract mid twenties to early thirties. The world is a big place, why limit your search?

JR-
i just decided to delete it..i think i made valid enough points?
but din't really like how it was worded or came across.
(i've dated and been married to some amazing AW,,so i'm not jaded torwards them by any means!   )

as far as your above quote.
i agree with it..

that's what i did before, and may do again?
i don't complain about american women,, i like them just fine
(but yes many don't care about themeselves as well as their european sisters,
 actually when you see attractive women in chicago,,odds are extreemly high they
are of eastern european background)


your earlier posts insinuates *all * WM looking,
are beneath your own stated  ideals?

while *you* happy at home, and are just expanding your dating pool ,
*They* are only looking because the want someone half thier age..
that they  can't find locally.true i n"some" cases,but  I just don't believe this to be the real case of most of tye serious men looking here?
Some are just looking for someone thier own age ,reasonably attractive, family oriented,
without a bunch of baggage ,such as drugs, clubbing,etc.

and it isnt as easy to find as you are putting out there..
(even for women) or there wouldn't be hundreds of dating websites like match, friendfinder etc??? )
and while some places,
especially larger cities like Chicago,DFW, LA or new york seem to have plenty,
its not the case everywhere.. as my post pointed out?
 I think you'd agre wether i was native ukrainian and average salary in either city..
 i could have more availible attractive women in kiev be intereted
in dating than in atlanta..(as the same average salaried amerikanitz) 
so location can be a factor?

i can walk thru chicago and see a lot of attractive women,but  availible and not currently in a relationship is another story.
but yes certainly there are single women!! and i can get a date if i want..duh. its a big city.
but wonder why so many women are on match.com? friendfinder etc?
because they CAN'T find what they are looking for either!!
 and what would that be?
are they as hopeless as the american men?
maybe they should seek further abroad as well..

finding a date isn't that hard,but finding the  right person , isn't easy,,

This may not be your intent, the posts just come across that way.
to be fair ,some of mars comments do come out strange to me as well.
this bridge he was selling,,is odd.
Certainly some of us can and do date attractive AW. sheesh.
They arn't some totally elusive rare species.. !!!
again dating isnt the true problem, finding the right person is.(in any country)

I'm not convinced the answer lies in the FSU,or in any country.

I think it lies within yourself, and also in being open to meeting new people and experiences in life,
 which is one thing travel anywhere will do.



 

[JR]

JR-
i just decided to delete it..i think i made valid enough points?

Well I thougt it was a good post.

your earlier posts insinuates *all * WM looking,
are beneath your own stated  ideals?

Hmm, not sure I get the complete picture of what you're saying here.



while *you* happy at home, and are just expanding your dating pool ,
*They* are only looking because the want someone half thier age..

Actually I include myself in the group of men who are looking for "younger." There is no other reason for me to go there. That is as honest as I can be.

and it isnt as easy to find as you are putting out there..

I disagree, it is as difficult or simple as we make it.

(even for women) or there wouldn't be hundreds of dating websites like match, friendfinder etc??? )

The world is a different place, dating sites work because people are a lot busier than they used to be. It is just a convenient way of meeting someone without the bar scene or aunt Martha setting you up.

and while some places,
especially larger cities like Chicago,DFW, LA or new york seem to have plenty,
its not the case everywhere.. as my post pointed out?

I've been to Springfield, there were plenty of young, attractive ladies to choose from.

 I think you'd agre wether i was native ukrainian and average salary in either city..
 i could have more availible attractive women in kiev be intereted
in dating than in atlanta..(as the same average salaried amerikanitz)  
so location can be a factor?

I partially agree with you here. But it isn't location, it is economy. Give Ukraine the average income of Saudia Arabia and see how many 23 year old smoking hot Ukrainian chicks put a profile on EM saying they'll marry a pot-bellied, balding WM 20 or 30 years older than herself.

i can walk thru chicago and see a lot of attractive women,but  availible and not currently in a relationship is another story.

How do you know they are not available?

finding a date isn't that hard,but finding the  right person , isn't easy,,

Agree completely

I'm not convinced the answer lies in the FSU,or in any country.

Agree completely

I think it lies within yourself, and also in being open to meeting new people and experiences in life,

BINGO!!!

And just so we're clear on all of this: I'm just playing devil's advocate on most of this...

Troll, troll, Troll your boat...gently down the thread

[XMan]

"Typical discussion here:

Person 1:  It is almost impossible to find a 1970s Mercedes Sedan with no rust, a gas engine and with original blue paint.  Can anyone give advice or some leads here?
..................................
Person 12:  You are all stupid greedy WM and this discussion shows you know nothing about cars.  You don't understand the soul of cars and you think you can choose your car just because you have a driver's license.  In fact you can only be chosen by your car; but, of course, you just don't get it."

Mars --- your entire post was funny, and largely accurate.  

I think everyone has their own reasons for searching FSU or elsewhere.  And those reasons are valid, regardless what they might be, to the person who has them.  In the end, that is what matters.  

I don't live in NY or Chicago, so if it's a sheer numbers game, that is problematic.  Slim pickens in my neck of the woods.  The dregs are what is available, and I don't mean based simply upon looks.  Getting a date isn't a problem.  Finding the right woman for a serious relationship is a problem.  

If you look in the same age group (let's used 30-40 as an example), my experience has been that FSU women:
1) take better care of themselves
2) are not feminist extremists
3) are generally better educated

Someone else's mileage may vary.  These are generalizations, which in and of themselves are always risky.   
And like anything else, there are always exceptions.  I'm sure other things could be added to the list. 
But, these reasons are good enough for me.