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Author Topic: My trip to Ukraine - Part three  (Read 56653 times)

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Offline Mars

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #200 on: December 11, 2009, 12:59:50 PM »
There is some truth to the varying viewpoints of Boethius, I/O, and KenC upstream.

I think a lot of it depends on the age of the woman being discussed, and the relative ages of the men and women involved.

Myself, I have not experienced problems concerning abrasive feminist AWs.  I guess they and I just somehow have avoided each other with no real plan to do so.  May have something to do with same reason I have not encountered scammers in FSU.  Just weed them out very early without getting involved.

And, I have not experienced the phenomena of success in dating 20-30 year old FSUW coupled with no success of dating similarly aged AW, because I do not seek women in that age group in any country.

As I stated, my main reason for seeking FSUW is to achieve the missing slender variable.  (And for those who chose again to twist my words on this, refer to my complete story on this in another thread.)

Other men clearly state their main reason is to achieve the younger variable.
Others refer to various blue sky variables.

So putting all of this together, yes there certainly are hot looking late teenage, 20s, and 30s women in USA.  However, these women would not (in the vast majority of cases) think of dating men 15-30 years older than themselves.

And, in general, university educated AWs have very bright futures in the professional workplace.  They can earn high salaries, buy their own cars, buy their own houses, etc., without the need for a man to help.  For many years in the 20-30 age bracket, they are not as much into the 'family thing' as are FSUW.  This, perhaps can give off some vibes as 'wanting to be like a man,' which can turn off some men.

Some AWs undoubtedly are deliberately more deeply into the feminist idea and send out vibes (as well as direct words) that tend to diminish their femininity and simultaneously attempt to castrate the unfortunate males that cross their path.

Just which particular AW turns the AM off probably depends a lot on the age they are relative to the man, the size of the city the women are in, and many other variables.  

A good case can be made for either viewpoint as both cases simultaneously exist in the USA
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 01:02:33 PM by Mars »
Mars man looking for Venus woman.

Offline Misha

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #201 on: December 11, 2009, 02:55:31 PM »
So shacking up for a week with someone you state on Day 1 is "not for you" is now called "dating"?

It still does not make it a relationship. Your definition of "shacking up" is clearly different from mine. He had not moved in with her, he still was not in a committed relationship. Sure, he was sleeping over, but that can be done while dating  :evil: As for being with someone when not really into them, some men and women make the mistake of thinking that their first impressions may be wrong and that they will view somebody differently once they know them better.


Offline vwrw

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #202 on: December 11, 2009, 04:18:02 PM »
I do know that my female relatives have at times refused gifts from men they were dating when they thought the gifts were too expensive or too intimate for the stage of the dating.  Don't think it had anything to do with confidence; just that they thought acceptance would send a signal they were more interested or committed than they were ready for at that point.

Maybe you disagree with me because your definitions of the terms confidence, confident differ from mine. :-\
In my definition, confident = sure about the nature of someone or something; confidence= trusting relationship or faith/belief that someone or something will do right thing or will act in proper manner.

Your female relatives have refused the gifts because they were not sure/confident about the underlying implications of the gifts and/or because they suspected that the giver might interpret their gift acceptance in wrong /improper way and that equals that they had no confidence that the giver would do right/proper interpretation. Hence, taking or not taking gifts is often a matter of confidence.
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Offline vwrw

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #203 on: December 11, 2009, 04:24:04 PM »
VWRW thinks it is good that people be themselves (i.e. ask for the coat if that is what is your nature) so that both parties can find out as quickly as possible about each other; and then both parties can make the appropriate decision as to whether or not to continue.  

Exactly, it is what I think.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #204 on: December 11, 2009, 11:21:56 PM »
Boethius thinks it was somewhat nasty to discard the gal after she asked for the coat.

I don't think it was nasty, but rather, callous and thoughtless.  I don't even think the intent was callousness, though that was the result.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline NickB

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #205 on: December 12, 2009, 11:33:51 PM »
Update:

This thread has taken a tack away from my trip report but I'll throw in a little update in case anyone is interested.

I made it back safely!!
Had a wonderful time despite the coat ordeal.
Truth is.. there is something about Helen that keeps me thinking of her.
We made up and have been in contact daily.
Want to mention that she complained one day that her washing machine had quit on her and she was doing clothes by hand. I sent her $600 to get a new one.

Katya and I are still communicating daily and I think she will come to the US for a visit in the spring.

Was it worth it? Yes
Did I learn something? Yes
Will I do it again? Yes (I'll be back in a few months)
Will I see Helen again? Yes unless something happens between now and then.

All in all great fun, great food, great wine, great opera and a wonderful experience.

Offline BillyB

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #206 on: December 13, 2009, 02:39:25 AM »

Truth is.. there is something about Helen that keeps me thinking of her.
We made up and have been in contact daily.

Want to mention that she complained one day that her washing machine had quit on her and she was doing clothes by hand. I sent her $600 to get a new one.

Silent treatment , temper tantrum, cold shoulder treatment,  she won't even look at you, She types a lot of this and that but the decision was made. Time to call a taxi. That chapter is finished.

Remember those words? That's the power of the bush. See how quickly a woman can make you forget all the pain she inflicted on you. Since she speaks zero English, how the hell did she mention the need for a washing machine?

Nick, life doesn't have to be this tough. Don't you have any better options?
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline JR

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #207 on: December 14, 2009, 10:55:36 PM »
Update:

Truth is.. there is something about Helen that keeps me thinking of her.

You want to "conquer her," ie: The Taming of the Shrew!"

We made up and have been in contact daily.

I notice you said contact and not communication....as I recall she speaks no English....

Want to mention that she (Helen) complained one day that her washing machine had quit on her and she was doing clothes by hand. I sent her $600 to get a new one.

Katya and I are still communicating daily and I think she will come to the US for a visit in the spring.

WTF?


You send Helen (the Shrew) $600 (maybe for a washing machine) but Katya is coming for a visit? :whirling:
Always be a first-rate version of yourself, instead of a second-rate version of somebody else :)

Offline Gylden

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #208 on: December 14, 2009, 11:33:51 PM »
this is what happens when you turn a kid lose in a candy store!! :wallbash:

Sorry, just couln't resist!
If I was a shrink I would prescribe some quality mirror time!

Offline stockman

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #209 on: December 26, 2009, 12:41:20 PM »

I have read 9 pages of posts on this topic. I see the largest problem of cultural differences.

To many foreigner watch American Television and get the idea that we are rich.

I had the same problem with my UW until I showed her exactly what it costs to live here. She did not understand the entire concept of mortgage, taxes, insurance, and THE EXTREMELY high costs of maintaining an international long distance relationship. They compare the exchange rate in their country not ours. It is easy to think a man grossing 5K per month has all kinds of money based on UA living expenses.

These relationships I compare to SPEED MARRIAGE. You have a limited amount of resources and time with each other. If they could visit us, it would make more sense. Others have no sense of the value of the US dollar. Things cost less here because some of us REFUSE to pay high prices. Capitalism, economics.

Too many of AM read all the horror stories about scammers. Unfortunately, it stays in our minds on the first visit. So at the first sign of a material request, our first reaction is "Is she only after the $$" For most men here making less than 100K per year, a 700 gift for a blind date is a lot of money especially when you have saved for 4 months to take this trip. In my case  I am self employed and I lose money while I am gone. So the trip in essence costs more like 7500. I think most Will agree, chat & phone calls is not dating. When I met my girl, I stayed in my hotel, we went to normal restaurants. When we consummated our relationship was after I asked for a commitment. We still have cultural issues at times but she is just as stubborn as me so we work it out. But I will say from experience DO NOT GO TO THE MALL unless you plan on buying something. These girls do not window shop like AW. I used this line and it worked. "Honey, as the man it is my responsibility for the financial well being. I like a general I am forced to make decisions on what is good for the entire family. Sometimes that means no to the things we want. It is not always a NO forever but NO for today. Unfortunately you do not have the same view point as I so I do not expect you to understand why I make these decisions until you are setting in  my environment and can see what I do. So you have to trust me. We are a team. We play for the same team. I want you to know I do not like saying now, but if I do say no, it is only because I cant or it will have future repercussions to us." After she digested it that portion really helped out.

I am sure Nick did not dump the girl because she asked him for a coat. There was no "magic" the illusion that we are all looking for. I looked for resiliency. These relationships are tough. Mine is far from perfect but we always find a way to resolve our differences.

Bottom line all women will test you, maybe some not as openly. It is how they react a day or two later that determines character. Just be confident and firm when you say no.

Offline spectris

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #210 on: January 02, 2010, 09:35:34 PM »
Wow, interesting thread for a "Trip Report" thread, but pretty entertainng none the less.  Without going into the sensitivities of USA, FSU, whatever - it has been my experience in life that when ANYONE attaches an actual price tag (it was $700 right?) to ANYTHING they should immediately run (not walk) away.  If someone needs a coat - fine, if somene wants a nice coat - fine, but when someone insists they "need" a $700 coat - they are simply manipulative and attaching a price to whatever he/she thinks is owed to them for whatever.

As for taking advantage of economically disadvanted women in the FSU, any AM can go to backpage.com or to their local strip club and prey on disadvantaged women without the hassles of travel, bad food and poor lodging. 

NickB just needs to move on -there is a 100% chance this woman will ruin him if he gives her the chance.   

Offline KenC

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #211 on: January 02, 2010, 11:06:28 PM »
spectris,
Good point about "need."  Welcome to RWD.
KenC
 
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
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Offline JohnDearGreen

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #212 on: January 03, 2010, 10:41:39 AM »
If someone needs a coat - fine, if somene wants a nice coat - fine, but when someone insists they "need" a $700 coat - they are simply manipulative and attaching a price to whatever he/she thinks is owed to them for whatever. 
She is simply "testing him".
a) how deep is his love?
b) how smart/stupid is he?

If he doesn't care for her at all, he will run the other way and the tourist is out of her hair.

If he immediately gives her the $700 coat, he is either very stupid or very rich or both. 
Her next "tests" would then determine which.

If he loved her and is smart he will come up with a much better response than "duh. maybe. we'll see".
Then she smiles and says "I was just joking to test you. You passed my test with flying colors. Can
you stay another week?".   


Offline NickB

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #213 on: January 29, 2010, 02:29:05 AM »
Update...

Helen and I have been communicating daily via email and Skype.
There were some ups and downs during my last visit but... Things happen. No one is perfect. What a boring life it would be if we were.
I am very attracted to her in more than one way (I know some will say it's sexual but I'm 49.. sex is not the most important thing in my life any more).
She has other qualities that attract me. She is a woman like I've not seen. She is a "woman" and acts like she enjoys being a woman. I enjoy it too. I can be the man and it feels good.

Anyway. I'm about two flights away from Odessa now and can't wait to see her.
We are going to the Seychelles for a week during my 3 week stay in Ukraine.
Should be fun.

Offline groovlstk

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #214 on: January 29, 2010, 06:34:06 AM »
Things happen. No one is perfect. What a boring life it would be if we were.

Typical rationalization of a guy in your situation, but for the full monte you might want to add the usual line about everything in life being risky, etc.

Offline NickB

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #215 on: February 27, 2010, 10:17:41 AM »
I love this forum.
You come here. relate your stories and get criticized for not doing this or that the "accepted" way. So many suspicious characters. "She's a scammer!", "Your being tested!". Discouraging to say the least.

Anyway...
I have been home about two weeks from my last visit.
I spent almost three weeks with Helen.
What did I learn? She's just a normal woman. No scamming, no testing. Just normal.
I had a very good time.

We walked, we talked, we laughed, we danced and we played. We cooked, we lazed around the apartment, we walked in the snow, we threw snow balls, we kissed and we slid down the hill on our butts!
The main thing is I relaxed and so did she. We became very comfortable with each other. It was as if we had known each other for a long time.

I did not feel like a foreigner as much as I did last time.
I even dressed like them. Black shirt, black pants, black shoes and black coat. Face clean shaven and short hair. No more strange looks as we walked the streets.

Helen has turned out to be a wonderful woman. Sweet, kind, warm, funny, affectionate, smart, frugal, loving and very good in a pillow fight. (we have not decided the champion yet.. next visit will be for the championship)

I will be going back on March 17th and I don't feel the need or want to see anyone else. In fact I can't get her out of my mind. Her voice, her mannerisms, her attitude, her kindness. The way we touch. The way we laugh at the same things. The way we communicate without speaking. It's hard to put a finger on exactly what it is but she has filled my head and heart.
Could it be love? We will see.

Offline myrddin

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #216 on: February 27, 2010, 10:29:20 AM »
Congratulations, NickB   :D   Glad it went so well!!
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." - Albert Einstein

Online Faux Pas

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #217 on: February 27, 2010, 02:28:16 PM »
Well the $64,000 question, does Helena have a new $700 coat?

Offline moskvan

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Re: My trip to Ukraine - Part three
« Reply #218 on: March 03, 2010, 07:18:25 AM »
Until request for nice boots??  :(

Silly man with shallow pockets you fail "test" from nice Russian girl!!  :D  brave girl

Silly girl, you fail "test" from nice American man!

Women who ask for a $700 coat, in the USA, Mexico, EU or Russia are GOLDDIGGERS. A woman who wants a man to spend large sums of money on her is a hooker.

Men with common sense do NOT tolerate such behaviour.

Do you know how men accumulate all that money that you want?
They get it by NOT SPENDING IT.

If you only want a man who doesn't care about buying you a $700 coat, then you want a man who earns $100,000 USD or more. The number of men on planet earth who earn that amount of money is very small. Thus you are after his money, thus he is wise to not date you, buy you gifts, or pass your tests.

Sorry!! you have BIG problem!!  >:(

Nice Russian girl spend ONE WEEK living with peasant American man cooking sleeping and you continue to use such words as dating??  >:(  your words are weird!!
This silly man is NOT dating!! dating is having cup of tea at a cafe or something alike. UNDERSTAND??  brave girl

If you believe that a woman needs, deserves and requires financial compensation for spending a week with a man, then you are a golddigger or prostitute.

Women who like a man, and like who he is and his personality and his inner being, do NOT require money to pay for the time she spends with him. If she likes him, then spending time with him is 'payment' enough. If she requires money, then she is a hooker.

It is 2010. Men have the Internet. Women have talked between themselves for thousands of years, now men do also. Each time a women says what you posted above, men notice this, send it to their friends, and men then continue to withdraw from dating, even from dating beautiful Russian or Ukrainian women.

If you want to eliminate all men as potential partners except Russian Mafia and Rich Men who earn $1,000,000 USD per year or more, you are succeeding. Of course there are very few wealthy men to go around, so women will be alone in the years to come as men realise that you want our cars and our money, not ourselves.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 07:28:37 AM by moskvan »

 

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