not sure where to put this, but 3 questions

[KenC]

Didn't plan to come back here, but I need to let it out.

Everything's canceled. Went to meet her. Everything was great until that. I found out that my sweety was having an affair with an older man (freaking bastard is old enough to be her grandfather) and was still having it after serious discussion about future and making me come all the way across the world to discuss about wedding. Being a virgin is not on my list of what I'm looking for a wife, but I see it as being the minimum decency/honesty to stop sleeping with other men when you're seriously trying to marry someone.

I'm badly hurt and feel like a complete idiot not seeing it before it was too late. I'm done with it.

Jepito,
I am truly sorry for your disappointment.  However, you indicated up thread that you were more emotionally invested in this relationship than maybe you should have been.  Any discussion of wedding plans was VERY premature and rather foolish prior to meeting IMO.  Bare in mind that 90% of the western men never even travel to eastern Europe, so your woman might have thought of you as a "long shot" at best.

I know you are hurt and disappointed, but step back from it all and analyze the situation from a more logical and less emotional point of view:
Did she "make" you come visit or was it YOUR decision?
Was it YOU that had serious marriage intentions and she wanted to wait until meeting?
Did you continue to see other women before your trip?
Did she tell you about the other man?
Is this older man connected to her work?
Did she tell you that it would end now?

You see Jepito, I view you as putting the cart waaaay before the horse here.  In any relationship where there has yet to be face to face contact, there is a strong tenedency to fantasize it into something it is not.  You went to meet her with your whole future marriage and life together all planned out in your mind.  It is not a rational or pragmatic way to enter into a real relationship.  (A REAL relationship begins at meeting face to face IMO)  She may very well have taken a much more pragmatic path to your relationship, like many people of the fsu.  That being that your relationship was a dream or a fairy tale until you two actually meet.  Think about it.  
KenC

(Sorry for the repeats folks, I had this post qued up hours ago but it didn't post for some reason)

[Dave13]

Jepito, Sorry for your pain, but until you meet it's just not a real relationship.

[Jumper]

Didn't plan to come back here, but I need to let it out.

Everything's canceled. Went to meet her. Everything was great until that. I found out that my sweety was having an affair with an older man (freaking bastard is old enough to be her grandfather) and was still having it after serious discussion about future and making me come all the way across the world to discuss about wedding. Being a virgin is not on my list of what I'm looking for a wife, but I see it as being the minimum decency/honesty to stop sleeping with other men when you're seriously trying to marry someone.

I'm badly hurt and feel like a complete idiot not seeing it before it was too late. I'm done with it.

In your post you only got more serious in comunication in the last couple of months,
 you even stated your worry that there would be no connection,that you were creating a wrong picture of her ,
and getting carried away !!

AND you mentioned you only had 4 weeks vacation time andpondered if it was enough,
for a woman you had never met..

any poster replying then,
was giving you advice on starting a relationship with her,  not a marriage.
you certainly dint include "serious discussions" about wedding plans on your impending visiti-
or posters here would have advised you quite differently.

you knew you were overly emotionally invested .

honestly, was SHE seriously trying to marry you? but still having an affair?
(and what matters her boy friends age?)

or where you trying to marry her..over a relationship based soley on 2 months comunicatiion ?
it is a big difference.


really sorry it happened, but you wrote its ending yourself...>>>

I've been in contact with a lady from Latvia for at least a year. Until 2-3 months ago, it was business relationship (we weren't looking for relationship). Then we became friends and we're now talking about more serious relationship.

Something that worries me: I've been chatting/talking on phone with her a lot. I'm worried that I might have created a wrong picture of her and when I actually meet her, I get disappointed or find that we don't have any connection. While I try to stay cool about it, I can't help but get maybe too enthusiastic. She's so sweet and nice (and cute), I think I'm getting carried away.  Clue Bat How do you handle this?

An issue I have, I don't have much free time outside work. (4 weeks of vacation a year) You think we can manage it with so little time, or it's not enough?

I quickly looked for airfare to Riga and that's insane, more than twice the price of my last trip to Australia.  Clue Bat Usually, how to you get in Eastern Europe?

[KenC]

I think I'm getting carried away. 

Yes, you did.

[BillyB]

Yes, he should have had a bunch of women lined up to meet him after he'd seen his woman to "discuss the wedding".  

A guy could be a WOVO and not be bitter about it if things go wrong. He could have made connections with other women including the ones walking down the street and come home on a positive note and told us some wonderful news.

When Jepito found out his lady was having her physical needs taken care of by another man, he probably did not have a backup plan and like most WOVO, they go back to the apartment and sit while remaining pissed off. Jepito was pissed getting his hopes up and wasting money to visit a woman in a relationship with another man. I'm sure the lady was also getting material benefits from her lover.

Before I visit any RW, I will ask them if they are currently married of have any kind of relationship with a boyfriend. Got to ask those questions.

[Misha]

A guy could be a WOVO and not be bitter about it if things go wrong.

Yes. Riga is a beautiful city and it is possible to visit and enjoy another country as a simple tourist (for the sake of some, I will specify not as a sex tourist) even if you do not come back engaged. 

[RussianWind]

So much talking about these WOVO and WMVM, so I am already having a tooth pain and really curious now to see some statistics of success in each approach.

Let's count real numbers.

1. SJ you did WOVO
2. Misha WOVO
3. Utrobina WOVO
4. Gator WMVO

Please help me to fill the list.

[Dave13]

Dave WMVM   of course my wife Anna wasn't one of the women I wrote too. Fate loves to play games with us !

[BillyB]

So much talking about these WOVO and WMVM, so I am already having a tooth pain and really curious now to see some statistics of success in each approach.

Let's count real numbers.

1. SJ you did WOVO
2. Misha WOVO
3. Utrobina WOVO
4. Gator WMVO

Please help me to fill the list.

I'm not too sure Gator was a VO. He's used some agencies if I remember correctly. Turboguy is a WMVM. KenC VM. In real life, most people date many before finding one.

[Jepito]

I've beed stupid, I know.  

...

was writting the complete story, but whatever. What's done is done. (I've been stupid, but I'm not that stupid.)

[Misha]

2. Misha WOVO

I did what I would call serial WOVO. I would date one woman and if things did not work out (I wasn't interested, she wasn't interested), then I would date someone else. At no point was I ever dating two women at the same time. And, to reiterate, most of the women that I dated involved nothing more than a quick coffee to see if there was any mutual interest. I was staying with friends in Russia and spending time in Russia because I do like visiting Russia for its culture and people. In other words, my conscience is clear, not matter what some may impugn 

[Jumper]

I've beed stupid, I know.  

...

was writting the complete story, but whatever. What's done is done. (I've been stupid, but I'm not that stupid.)

sorry it happened and i'm sure there is more to the story..

[RussianWind]

I did what I would call serial WOVO.

Doesn't matter. You go on trip to see just one woman, you give her all your time, this is the meaning.

[Misha]

Doesn't matter. You go on trip to see just one woman, you give her all your time, this is the meaning.

Okay, then I only did WOVO. I gave my time to only one woman at any one time. I can now vote

[KenC]

I've beed stupid, I know.  

...

was writting the complete story, but whatever. What's done is done. (I've been stupid, but I'm not that stupid.)

Jepito,
Yes, you made the error of getting too emotionally invested in a "virtual relationship."  But quit beating yourself up.  It does no good.  There are a good many men that fell into the same trap as you.  It is up to you whether you want to share the complete story or not.  Consider that it may be theraputic to tell your tale, or that you might learn from the input of others so as to know how to avoid the same mistakes in the future.
KenC

[I/O]

Please help me to fill the list.

WMSWM (Write Many Sleep With Many)     Stud
WOSWM (Write One Sleep With Many)       Lying Stud
WOSWO (Write One Sleep With One)         Nah, doesn't happen.

[Jepito]

Not much to say actually.

Just the essential:

I just couldn't link together the pieces of the puzzle in time before it blew in my face. I knew that old pervert for a long time (not calling him like that because I'm mad, that's really what he is. Knew that for a long time that despite being old fat and bald, he can't stop mentionning every 5 minutes something about screwing a young cutie. He's the kind of guy to buy used panty to smell them. He can be nice, but still too perverted not to say he has issues). I knew he was trying to hit on her as long as I've known both. Just never even crossed my mind that she would fall for him. I thought that she was smart and had good standard. So when I went to pick her up (were planning to spend holidays together in her hometown then take her with me for a month or two to see how it is and if was fine, wedding) he she had to go to tell bye to him before heading from Riga to her parents place, I didn't expect that it was to give him some sugar for Christmas. So while I'm not a puritan, seeing the girl you're dreaming about blowing the tire of an old pervert isn't exactly something that make you feel good. While we weren't engaged, we commited to do the effort to make it work. At some occasions, both said more than they thought, but always sounded like a joke. Now that I know, the connection between what they both said at some point just linked.

So, I am allowed to be

-Hurt by feeling cheated
-Disappointed in her for falling for a freaking old pervert
-Feel stupid not to see it coming

PS I didn't sleep much recently, so don't take litterally every word I said in last post for.

[Gylden]

Jepito,
Don't worry, try to relax it happens, I am sure and not just with FSUW.
However, because the nature of this type of endeavor I rec comend to not place to much importance on the money, if something doesn't work out, be a little creative, carry on and enjoy your travels.
IMO it is best to begin these types of long distance relationships with plenty of doubts in your mind and let the doubts be removed with the progression of the relationship. vs. letting your imagination fill the gaps with some dreams before any reasonable development has occurred. (this applies for the women as well).
Hang in there and try to get the value of the tuition you have paid!

RW,
I was CMWFDOVO, Contact many, Write a few, Decide on one, Visit one. Never went to FSU until we were married more than 4 years. Third country first contact.

[vwrw]

If a man is confident enough in himself and his judgement and in the woman he will be visiting a WOVO is a fine idea;

Answering the questions - will the woman a man writes be the right one for him or will he be right for her means making predictions. When it comes to predicting even experts are more likely to be confident than right. With a non-expert, confidence is an even less relable indicator of rightness.  Hence, man's confidence in himself or/and his jugement does not signifigantly increase his chance on sucess with the WOVO approach and should be not considered as a fine idea based on that.

[Faux Pas]

Answering the questions - will the woman a man writes be the right one for him or will he be right for her means making predictions. When it comes to predicting even experts are more likely to be confident than right. With a non-expert, confidence is an even less relable indicator of rightness.  Hence, man's confidence in himself or/and his jugement does not signifigantly increase his chance on success with the WOVO approach and should be not considered as a fine idea based on that.

The chances of the first meeting IMO working out are let's face it, 50/50 at best. That's at the very best. However, if each, man and woman doesn't do their respective due diligence the 50% of it working out declines dramatically. Thus, open and honest communication is a vital key. It is imperative IMHO that if either isn't completely honest, meaning doesn't embellish their feelings, positions or station in life and provide recent photos the 50% is decreased to single digits.

My wife and I were WOVO. I wouldn't have done it any other way and neither would she. I do believe there was a large degree of dumb luck involved, we did however both increase and maximize our percentage by honest communication. I truly believe neither of us were surprised by the person we met. This was due large in part to asking many questions through countless hours on the telephone, emails and texts. We've not been married long enough to gauge any degree of success but, thus far it is working out quite nicely. Luck or calculated method I do not really know.

[Gylden]

vwrw,
IMO good judgement can be very usefull and increases the chances WOVO or WMVM.

FauxPas,
I think I would disagree with you about the percentage rates. I think the chances at the first meeting are greatly influenced by the amount of attention one uses in those communications, as you have stated about being honest and not embellishing, current pictures etc. All of these things can greatly increase or decrease ones "chances" IMO.
Just like you, when I met my wife face to face there were no surprises, just confirmations and delight. To this day I am confident that we made good choices, because even though it has only been 5 years, our marriage is getting stronger as time goes on.
In my imagination you are a humble man and I think there must have been more than dumb luck that contributed to your success.

[Ade]

Answering the questions - will the woman a man writes be the right one for him or will he be right for her means making predictions. When it comes to predicting even experts are more likely to be confident than right. With a non-expert, confidence is an even less relable indicator of rightness.  Hence, man's confidence in himself or/and his jugement does not signifigantly increase his chance on sucess with the WOVO approach and should be not considered as a fine idea based on that.

Some people are more capable than others of making educated guesses particularly when we're talking about human relations; some of us are pretty confident in our abilities. Sure it's still a "prediction" but going by the VO/VM poll on another thread, it seems to work just fine for many men.

Here's another guess for you; in general, even though a man may meet many women in a WMVM scenario, his chances of success are still less than a VO trip because of one or more of the following 1) generally the women willing to do this aren't that serious, 2) they generally don't view the man as being that serious, 3) the man doesn't or couldn't spend enough time on narrowing the field to the most compatible candidates.

[Mars]

Jepito:  I found out that my sweety was having an affair with an older man (freaking bastard is old enough to be her grandfather)

. . . . .

I just couldn't link together the pieces of the puzzle in time before it blew in my face. I knew that old pervert for a long time (not calling him like that because I'm mad, that's really what he is. Knew that for a long time that despite being old fat and bald, he can't stop mentioning every 5 minutes something about screwing a young cutie. He's the kind of guy to buy used panty to smell them. He can be nice, but still too perverted not to say he has issues). . . . .

So while I'm not a puritan, seeing the girl you're dreaming about blowing the tire of an old pervert isn't exactly something that make you feel good.

A couple of points:

1) I note again the tendency for everyone (men and women) to somehow try to blame a man for the problems rather than the woman.

True, OP gave blame to the woman, but he would like to pin part of the blame on another man.  Why is this other man a 'freaking bastard' just because he was able to have sex with someone so young?  Why is he a pervert?  If he is a pervert, then what is she?  As far as we know, he was just an innocent bystander and didn't necessarily know anything about the other two.

2) Did you really witness the event in your last sentence quoted above?  How did you happen to witness it?  And why was he a pervert just because some hot gal performed such on him?

3) When does a man transform from a stud to a pervert with respect to receiving the same voluntary service?  Would you, the OP, have been a pervert if you received the same treatment from the gal?

[Mars]

Misha:  I did what I would call serial WOVO. I would date one woman and if things did not work out (I wasn't interested, she wasn't interested), then I would date someone else. At no point was I ever dating two women at the same time. And, to reiterate, most of the women that I dated involved nothing more than a quick coffee to see if there was any mutual interest. I was staying with friends in Russia and spending time in Russia because I do like visiting Russia for its culture and people. In other words, my conscience is clear, not matter what some may impugn

- - - - - - - -

Quote from: RussianWind on Yesterday at 07:06:04 PM
Doesn't matter. You go on trip to see just one woman, you give her all your time, this is the meaning.

- - - - - - - - -

Okay, then I only did WOVO. I gave my time to only one woman at any one time. I can now vote

Come on Misha!!  RussianWind's interpretative statement of what you did is nothing at all like you wrote in your first post.  You did not 'go on trip to see just one woman.'

Your case probably actually doesn't fit any of the well defined letters used here.  You were more like a person living in the country and dating in a normal manner as people do in their home countries.

Note: I am not at all criticising you.  Just that, as I pointed out in another thread, your advice to others can be quite misleading because few if any can be in 'the shoes you were wearing.'

Also,  to nit pic a bit further, aren't you being a little high and mighty with your statement:  "At no point was I ever dating two women at the same time."   Not doubting your word there,

BUT, what would you have done if one of your earlier gals, let's say one that you liked quite a bit but sensed she didn't care for you so you didn't pursue and went on to other gals; now she recontacted you and was quite aggressive in pushing for a second date.  You would have readily gone with her right?

[Turboguy]

I have a feeling that someone who has not traveled before and not met russian women before who is going to meet a RW who has not met other (or many) AM has a signifigantly better chance of success than someone going a WOVO for the 10th time meeting a woman who has been meeting tons of guys with an agency or over a long period with her time on popular sites.