To ethnic AM's

[Bruno]

But like Jesse Jackson said, "If I'm walking down the street and I hear people walking behind me, if I turn to look at them and they are white, I feel relieved"

:D:D

From the US bureau of Justice...

Code: [Select]

From 1976 to 2002

- 86% of white victims were killed by whites

- 94% of black victims were killed by blacks

So Oosik, if you are white, worry when a white people walk behind you...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm

[Oosik]

According to the FBI unform crime report, Black commit 54% of all non-negligent homocides. Note that they are less than 12% of the population.

Your numbers may be true, but they do not show anything relevent.

Blacks are much more likely to be murdered by blacks, but they are also murdered in much higher numbers.

The white #'s include hispanics, including illegals.

If 14% of whites are killed by blacks, and 94% of blacks are killed by blacks, that doesn't disprove my point at all. Overall, even Jesse Jackson recognizes that some races in the US are more dangerous than others.

[Shadow]

Oosik, does this idea of races being more or les criminal include the social circumstances ?

People living in the lower classes of society are more probably to commit crimes. As of what I have seen, there are more blacks in the lower classes than whites. As such they could be relatively more involved in crimes.

I will not go back to fight about muslims and terrorists. Ask jb about my opinions on this.

[Oosik]

I lived in an area with about 95% white, 5% hispanic, and one black family. This is for the whole county. Over 60% lived below the poverty level. Crime was and is very low.

Just picking poverty out of the hat as the root cause doesn't cut it. Being poor doesn't mean being immoral.

On the other hand, I would say that kids growing up without intact families is the #1 predictor of crime. And 70% of blacks do just that. Not having a proper male role model can explain a proclativity to crime.

But the point is, if people are naturally suspicious of folks who look like arabs or blacks, they do so for perfectly normal and healthy reasons, based on current probablilities. I'm sorry if that offends you. But you cannot  argue that the normal profiling that we all do as part of our very natural survival instinct is wrong. Yes, we should try to give all people a chance. But we should not completely reject reality either.

[LatinSwede]

All I know is that I have experienced living in 9 or 10 countries including a predominately Muslim one (Turkey) and have never experienced any problem at all except for a short period in Panama where there were riots.

Riot in Panama?  How did I miss it?  When did this happen?  Sometimes, the leftist cry baby university students throw a tantrum and block the main roads.  It really pisses me off when they do that.  I have to go a really long way to get around them.  They're so worried about their petty issues, they infringe on the right of others right of passage.  Most local Panamanians think they're pendejo's.  Their demonstrations just makes the rest of the populace angry at them.  The only sympathy they get for their cause is the middle finger from Taxero's.

[Bruno]

Since all human beings share one ancestor, it is sufficient to demonstrate that the only "race" is the human race.

[Oosik]

I didn't deny that those numbers are true.

But if you had a scientific mind, you could see how those numbers are meaningless in disproving what I said. They can be true while also my numbers are true. Your numbers constitute a red herring in the argument

[Oosik]

So blacks are about 13% and commit 32% of all rapes, yet your number crunching ability thinks thats safer than the white race? And if the new numbers show that crime rate among blacks has dropped to 48% while their population has gone up to 13%, it still shows that blacks are far more likely to commit murder than whites. You helped make my point.

As far as all of us being one race, redefining common words in the english language to suit your argument is not valid.

The question was are hispanics (now blacks or arabs) finding difficulty. For Hispanics, probably not. For the other two, the answer is a qualified yes, and the explanation is that both groups have a reputation to get over. A reputation that a substantial minority has earned for you. Unfortunately, you cannot always tell the difference between a Muslim Arab and a Christian Arab at a glance. So if you are a Christian Arab, and you are on my flight to Europe this Christmas, you'd better not wander around back and forth to the mens room unless you want a bunch of guys like me eyeballing you. If you go to a cafe, don't leave your backpack sitting there either.

[catzenmouse]

Oosik,

 How does any of this crap have anything to do with FSUW? You've  started off on a great big bigoted tangent which serves no purpose  whatsoever. Give it a rest please.

Ken

[Bruno]

Yes, i know, i am a (|) ... :D:P ... these American xenophobie is created by  the fear of the unknow... A majority of American have never go outside US and have almost no real contact with other culture... but thing can change... several year ago, American have hate Russian, they was the evil... now, American marry Russian woman... be carefull, maybe Russia is busy win some secret war, the vagina war ... Paranoia is the next step after fear

[Oosik]

Sorry catz, it just degenerated from WHAT people have observed to Bruno accusing people of somehow being in the wrong for observing it.

I am just pointing out that there are plenty of observables that would make people feel how they do.

Bruno, if someone is 13% of the population and they commit 49% of all murders, that is not in line with their population. If they committed 13% of all murders, then yes, it would be.

It's called math. You can differ with me on opinion all day long, but making up facts is not allowed.

Also Bruno, you accuse us of not being worldly, but you missed an important point. We never hated Russians, we just had the balls to stand up to the Soviet Union. As far as us going over for their women, well, to the victor goes the spoils. Unfortunately, along side the victors goes some camp followers.

And the xenophone thing is just the knee jerk argument that the "we are the world"ers use whenever they cannot come up with a good argument. I've lived in Europe for 6 years, my mom is a 1st gen immigrant, I've been to plenty of countries and quite frankly I don't think I have ever lived in a state as small as Belgium. For you to travel to 3 other European countries is like me driving across state to visit my mom. That doesn't make you more worldly.

Yes, I have a bad habit. I am Captain Insensitive, the caped crusader, fighting PC stupidity wherever it rears it's ugly head.

[Admin]

But the point is, if people are naturally suspicious of folks who look like arabs or blacks, they do so for perfectly normal and healthy reasons, based on current probablilities. I'm sorry if that offends you. But you cannot  argue that the normal profiling that we all do as part of our very natural survival instinct is wrong. Yes, we should try to give all people a chance. But we should not completely reject reality either.

"Reality"

I confess, I am struggling with that term right now. Just finished the 7th day in trial, and listened to the inane ramblings of; (a) my ex-wife (whom I really do believe has serious mental health problems - I *think* the judge is beginning to agree), and (b) the incompetent and ponderous fantasies of opposing counsel - presented to the judge with all apparent sincerity and conviction.

Of course, no decision today - but tomorrow I'll find out if the judge accepted any part of their "reality."

But seriously - what constitutes your "reality" may be quite different for someone else. In fact, what constitutes your "reality" today, may not at all be your "reality" tomorrow.

A couple of examples.

When my sons were 2 and 5 years old (about 8 or 9 years ago), I decided to seize the opportunity of my working and living in Taipei, to expose them to a radically different culture and living environment. My eldest has red hair, and the 2nd has an incredibly engaging personality.

When we boarded the United 747 in San Francisco bound for Taipei, we were clearly in the minority insofar as the ethnic groups represented on board the aircraft. The Taiwanese all seemed drawn to my children - in part because of their ages and the fact they are cute - and in part because they are so 'different' from the stereotypical Chinese.

At first, my sons shrank from the attention and were shy and uncertain. Over the course of the next few months while we lived in Taipei and engaged with the local people on a daily basis, my boys integrated nicely and became quite comfortable with the local kids and local pasttimes. My eldest would cross the street where we lived to play basketball (as much as a 5-year-old CAN play basketball), with other kids - all Chinese - and after a time, he just thought of them like everyone else - and they him.

By the time they departed Taiwan, they were reasonably well-integrated with people of another race and culture and who looked radically different from themselves.

That was my objective - and it was realized. I wanted them to look upon others without bias. To consider that people from across the globe and from all economic sectors have a few things in common to ALL peoples - and specifically, it is that ALL people in ALL countries in EVERY economic sector want one thing - they want a better life for their children. It is universal.

Sure there are a few zealots who fall outside the bounds of the norm and they find motivations foreign to the vast majority. But those percentages are miniscule in any population.

Soooo . . . . my point is that my children's sense of "reality" changed in those months they lived in Taiwan.

People who have limited life experiences of never having integrated and collaborated with people from other races and ethnicity, suffer (IMO) from not being able to enjoy one of life's miracles - and that is, the diversity of opinion and expression existant in other groups.

When Olya arrived in America, she came from a mid-sized city in Ukraine (Kremenchug). The vast majority of people she had seen and interacted with were of ethnic Russian (and white) background. She had an apparent natural aversion to Asians and to "Grudzinski" and Azerbajani and others from central Asia. She referred to blacks by the VERY normal word in Russian which sounds very close to an old insult in America (the n-word).

When she arrived here, her "reality" changed - and changed swiftly. First, she enrolled in an ESL immersion program in which the vast majority of students were Asian. She quickly grew comfortable with people from Asia and some remain friends of hers now.

Next, she was introduced to my extended family. She met my nieces and nephews who were adopted as infants and are now in their 20's. She met their spouses and children and she quickly came to respect and love them. It didn't take long for her to no longer notice that they are of African-American heritage.

Her "reality" had changed dramatically.

But even more dramatic than all that was when, after a horrible incursion and betrayal by a former friend of mine and business partner - she came to share my faith.

Her "reality" had changed yet again.

I do not mean to prosyletize - but in terms of someone's "reality", it is malleable and changes based on experience.

Arabs and Jews and Asians and Hindus and Europeans and Africans and Martians - the one abiding characteristic that ALL people share is - they wish a better life for their children. And there is room in that for us to ALL find common ground.

It is far more important to look for the similarities we share and that bring us together - than for the differences which push us apart.

Just my philosophic take on things this 'strange' evening.

FWIW

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

Understand your point. Just think we have better things to do and discuss here and it IS what we are all here for now isn't it?

By the way, I have enjoyed your trip report so far and look forward to more of it.

Ken

[BC]

All I know is that I have experienced living in 9 or 10 countries including a predominately Muslim one (Turkey) and have never experienced any problem at all except for a short period in Panama where there were riots.

Riot in Panama?  How did I miss it?  When did this happen?  Sometimes, the leftist cry baby university students throw a tantrum and block the main roads.  It really pisses me off when they do that.  I have to go a really long way to get around them.  They're so worried about their petty issues, they infringe on the right of others right of passage.  Most local Panamanians think they're pendejo's.  Their demonstrations just makes the rest of the populace angry at them.  The only sympathy they get for their cause is the middle finger from Taxero's.
[/quote]
LatinSwede,

This was back in the 60's.. I was just a kid back then

[jb]

I'm an equal-opportunity bigot, I hate everybody who looks different.

[aikorob]

jb,

you remind me of a bumper sticker I saw--

"I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody"

[jb]

I don't think ethnic centered stereotyping are confined to just our shores.

http://www.devilducky.com/media/3076/

Click here to see the Japs have a little fun at the expense of American blacks.

[catzenmouse]

I'm an equal-opportunity bigot, I hate everybody who looks different.

Is that everybody who doesn't look like Kenny Rogers' younger brother Buck?

The two I like are:

I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody

- and -

I hate everybody, and you're next!

Ken

[LatinSwede]

I'm only prejudice against peolpe from New Jersery (inside joke), and the French.  I'm not prejudice against French cooking though.

[Oosik]

Ahh, something we can all agree on, hating the French!!

Maybe I'm too picky, but the girls that speak some french or say the like the french or want to go to paris, I skip their profiles. That's one difference of opinion I cannot deal with.

You know, latinswede, many women do post hispanic as a preference. I think most women (most people really) include hispanic with white, but the most frequent combinations of races that I see is white/hispanic.

[LatinSwede]

I spent a great dea l of my childhood, and my early teens Germany and Holland.  My worst family trip was to Paris France.  After I saw the Eifel tower and monuments, I couldn't wait to leave.  IMO, there much finer places in Europe to see than Paris.  Luckily, my significant other is in agreement on places to see.  I want to show my old neighborhood in Utrecht.  Scandinavia, where my dad's family is from, is awsome even though I have to bring a small fortune just to visit.  They tax the crap out of you up there.