Did you meet your partner WMVM or WOVO?

[JohnDearGreen]

However, as far as the Women are concerned, I don't believe that there are many who would accept that they were number 10, number 5, or even number 2 on someones List.  

If the quality of the person is high enough, there will be many men/women willing to throw their hat into the ring and compete for their attention.  Likewise, there will be many who feel their chance of success is not high enough, or they don't have enough time,  to enter such competitions.

And, if you set your goals low enough, you will reach your goal, but is it really a "success"?

What happens when the man/woman prefers someone several "levels" of popularity or appearance  "above" themself?
a) For the woman, her best chance is to reduce the competition, make herself look better than she really is, and insist on a VO from men who can only afford to make a small number of trips.
b) For the man, his best chance is to find a location with reduced competition.  Even then he may have to visit many, many, many to succeed (VMMM).
By definition, there is "zero" chance of a successful meeting between woman "a" and man "b".
They are both looking for something different and better.

What happens when the man/woman prefers to deal with someone at their own "level" of popularity or appearance?    A reasonable chance of success using any method.

What turns a man into a VM?  Type a women.
What turns a woman into a VO?  Type b men.

[GregfromGa]

Beat the dead horse again.   I can not vote because you need to add the column WNVM (write none visit many) or WAVM (write a bunch visit many) - ie. give a general announcement that you are comming and start your search real time!   After you meet many you can actually see if chemistry is there or not, whittle down, write letters and then meet the right girl for you to start dating.   Simple, it works and I highly recommend it.    The proof is right here in the pudding, though I will admit different strokes for different folks and there is no one way to fit all.   My advice, do something which gets you meeting gals in real time as opposed to the fantasy land of virtual world.

This might just be the most perfect answer to this very old and worn out debate. The women here will say that WOVO is the only way while most logical thinking and experienced men who have been around the block a time or two will say something else. I just cant tell you at the times that I've met some poor bastard who went to see one girl and it not workout within the first 15 minutes of their meeting if in fact a meeting ever happened in the first place. Most guys will be too ashamed to ever admit this. There is no exact science but for some guy to listen to RW/UW and guys who got very lucky with the WOVO approach is absolutely insane.

[Misha]

There is no exact science but for some guy to listen to RW/UW and guys who got very lucky with the WOVO approach is absolutely insane.

So, all the men who were married after a WOVO were simply very lucky  :noidea: So, if a WMVM gets married, it is because they pursued things with logic and sanely, while the WOVO folk simply lucked out as they should have failed 

[UTRO]

Gylden - short answer is NO.    Before this board was infiltrated with Johnny come lately fools and women there were a lot of good old American men searching for their better half overseas in the FSU, notably Russia and Ukraine.   We gave the best advice we could to each other based on real experience.    This board came from American guys getting pissed off with another board, who were in part bored and tired of the limitations of another board.    Similarly, this board has splintered with a good amount on another board.    Guys like me who have made 22 individual trips to Russia from the USA and two individual trips to Ukraine have a lot of experience that discerning individuals could use to aid  them in their search.   Sure there are a few lucky men who despite doing what ordinarily does not work for most men end up accomplishing their goal of long term marriage to a woman from Russia or Ukraine.    There are some who can only find a woman who would marry them in Russia or Ukraine and feel they are so lucky - usually short term until they are taken to the cleaners that is.   Dan is a good guy with incredible experience from the old PL board who set up this board to compete the RWG board which imploded due to a number of reasons one of which probably was an owner not married to a FSU woman who was a computer geek looking to cash out - which he ultimately did.   Dan's heart is in the right place though Dan is inclusive to a fault.   Times change though die hards like me looking to give back to the community do occasionally check in.   WOVO works for some but my opinion will not change having tried many different methods until I got things right for me that WOVO is like a broken clock right twice per day.

 

Bruce are you okay? Is there something wrong? Well, I don't know whether the "Johnny come lately'' and "fool" reference were for guys like me? I'm not sure, I guess two years on this forum makes me so, as do my 8 trips to Russia? I'm sorry I'm not a 'good old American' either. BTW, neither is Glyden.
Lately someone was making reference that RWD was a GOB site. Most, like I disagreed including Dan, but now with such comments coming from you I have to wonder?
Congratulations on your 22 trips..... how many were made before you ultimately met your wife?
You are right that times do change, the old guard does fall and is replaced with new.
FYI, not all is a waste..... when I was a 'newbie', RWD did help me with the unknown. Indeed, I like you, have since "given back to the community".

[CanadaMan]

  Indeed, I like you, have since "given back to the community".

Perhaps this line would read better if the comma was moved ahead just a touch?

Indeed I, like you, have since "given back to the community".

[UTRO]

Perhaps this line would read better if the comma was moved ahead just a touch?

Indeed I, like you, have since "given back to the community".

lol Rick!! No really, I do like him!

[XMan]

There are so many variables that I don't think it's possible to say that WOVO is better or not based upon a poll from a sample that is too small to provide any real conclusions.  We need at least 1,500 whack-jobs like us that would travel to meet a woman in a foreign country who usually speaks little if any of our native tongue, comes from a different culture, and has a very different world view, in hopes that we can build a long-term, happy, successful relationship.  Tell me that is not the definition of crazy right there, regardless of whether it's WOVO, WMVM, WMVO, NEMO, TONTO, or something else. 

I have done WOVO, WMVO, and WMVM.  Did my best to learn from my mistakes on each. 
I used free, and what I would call limited service, and also high-end service sites/agencies. 
Some women (and I would imagine men) present themselves differently than they really are. 
Some agencies are more trustworthy than others. 
Some interpreters are good, some not so good.

Amongst the many posts someone mentioned the personality of the man doing the search. 
What if the man in question is more comfortable focusing on one woman?  He's a careful planner.  He spends a tremendous amount of time up front eliminating alternatives and feels he has found "in advance" the best possible match?  What if the man prefers limited planning and wants to take action and meet women with little communication in advance?  Or what if he falls somewhere between the two extremes? 

If I had met "the one" on a WOVO, of course it would be best.
If I had met "the one" on a WMVM, then I would be thankful I was wise enough to have a backup plan. 

I'm planning a visit one scenario right now, after I was CERTAIN I would not do that again.  I still don't feel comfortable not having a good backup plan, but I think this is an opportunity that is worth the risk.  And for me, I still think it's risky regardless how good the communication has been, or the type (written, verbal, video, smoke signals, telepathy, whatever).  Sic vita est.

[Gylden]

Hi Yo Silver Xman!!

I will add that a back up plan doesn't necessarily have to be another woman.

Can be just to relax and enjoy the travel, some people actually do it for a vacation!!

 

[RussianWind]

I will add that a back up plan doesn't necessarily have to be another woman.

Yes. It can be the same woman all the time. One of the dates may work after all 

[Bruce]

No offense Utrobina - Canada and USA men were here from the start.   Rvrwnd was and I hope on occassion still is a super contributor with more colorful true tales told (written) like a  storyteller with the gift of gab.   The "European" perspective tends to obscure, though again there are plenty of Brits and others who know what they are talking about.   Bottom line is that we are talking foreigners looking to not only hook up but to find their better half (Generally American men (North Americans - that includes Canada you know) and Russian women.   Other men in the know have chimed in with reality ie. women want the WOVO and men generally know that getting your but on a plane and meeting women after slim to no correspondence in a target rich area generally with a reputable agency or personnel until the guy makes the transition (if he likes) to striking out on his own is the way to go.    What agencies and people are trustable to help guys meet many Russian women seriously looking for their better half with a Western man from America or at least willing to consider one?     This is tough because numbers of Westerners are low, disreputable agencies are high and things can change very quickly in the FSU.    If I was starting from scratch these days I do not believe I would even be looking in the FSU for my better half, but if I did I would read and contact the guys who were successful and learn what they did looking for a pattern.    See photos of the wives and families, look for similar age, wants and needs.   Look for similar character traits in women as well as other requirements you have for the women, physical as well as mental.   Do you just want any girl to marry you - if so, go for a WOVO, especially if looks do not matter to you.   If you want to learn the culture, see the country, take your time, meet quality women until you find the chemistry you desire with the characteristics and character traits you want.   The most important thing for any guy is to remember that they have to be ultimately happy - and they could be with patience, trying a bunch of aproaches (locations) and a little bit of luck.

[UTRO]

No offense Utrobina - Canada and USA men were here from the start.   Rvrwnd was and I hope on occassion still is a super contributor with more colorful true tales told (written) like a  storyteller with the gift of gab.   The "European" perspective tends to obscure, though again there are plenty of Brits and others who know what they are talking about.   Bottom line is that we are talking foreigners looking to not only hook up but to find their better half (Generally American men (North Americans - that includes Canada you know) and Russian women.   Other men in the know have chimed in with reality ie. women want the WOVO and men generally know that getting your but on a plane and meeting women after slim to no correspondence in a target rich area generally with a reputable agency or personnel until the guy makes the transition (if he likes) to striking out on his own is the way to go.   

No offense taken Bruce. I better understand what you are saying now. Getting out there on your own, whether VO or VM is the key.
Honestly after 8 trips to the Motherland, which I love visiting, my Bank Account is overjoyed that Svetlana is coming home

SNovum Godum!

[UTRO]

Hi Yo Silver Xman!!
I will add that a back up plan doesn't necessarily have to be another woman.

O...k...a...y... Gylden....... now ya got me worried partner.....  ???

[Vaughn]

Rather than panic when "Miss Right" turns out to be "Lady Disaster", enjoy a back up plan like this...



More men might consider there are far more things to do in the FSU than chase skirts, though
I concede that seems to be the #1 activity. 

[Misha]

More men might consider there are far more things to do in the FSU than chase skirts, though
I concede that seems to be the #1 activity. 

  I agree.

[greg2654]

Rather than panic when "Miss Right" turns out to be "Lady Disaster", enjoy a back up plan like this...

Now your talking,
When Ira couldn't get out of work for 2 days I went to a dive shop near the Fili Metro sta. in Moscow and these guys rented me a complete dive outfit (all first rate Mares equip.)and drove me to a lake just outside Moscow for some great diving. They even BBQ'd a couple of chickens; and these boys would party at the drop of a hat !

[Gylden]

   Utrobina,

You are maybe too young to remember, Xman said "whether it's WOVO, WMVM, WMVO, NEMO, TONTO, or something else." maybe I am mistaken about his meaning, but I thought he was throwing in a little humor with the "tonto" thing. (The Lone Ranger) and I was just joining in.   LOL
Didn't want to trip the allarm. (I think you have to be in your 50's to remember)
 

[Aloe]

Aloe:  You were competing with other ladies for the opportunity to be the one he emailed and selected.
Obviously ladies would prefer to be the only one selected.  That is a no-brainer.  If you turn the question around and ask it differently, your answer might be different.  What if you ask this question:  Would you prefer to be turned down by a man on the basis of a few emails and a fuzzy five minute web cam session?  Or would you prefer he come and meet you in person, along with several other ladies, before making the decision not to choose you?

I never wrote emails. Ok, maybe a couple in the VERY beginning. Always instant chat/voice chat, its just so much more convenient. And yes, id prefer him to stop talking before meeting if hes not interested, before i go and spend 200 bucks on my hair/make up Im just not going to compete with other women for his attention. Its different when you are just talking over skype, its not a competition at all, its just talking. But when hes here dating 5 women at once, that IS a competition, the one i would never partake in. He is supposed to be sweeping me off my feet; not the other way around I just wont have it if hes dating other women, then its his choice, im not going to be one of manymanymanymanymany.

[Aloe]

I guess the problem here is how we all view it. When he comes over to meet me i see it as a date, so i will not see anyone who plans to date many women at once. You all see it as "just a meeting" apparently. But i think when 2 people meet and try to get to know each other with purpose of finding out whether you are compatible as partners its a DATE

[UTRO]

  Utrobina,

You are maybe too young to remember, Xman said "whether it's WOVO, WMVM, WMVO, NEMO, TONTO, or something else." maybe I am mistaken about his meaning, but I thought he was throwing in a little humor with the "tonto" thing. (The Lone Ranger) and I was just joining in.   LOL
Didn't want to trip the allarm. (I think you have to be in your 50's to remember)
 

LOL! 47 in May I remember black and white well!

[Aloe]

Since my wife did not think my point was clear in my last post let me try to explain a bit more.  

First off I was not implying that any man who comes for a WOVO is more likely to be undesirable.  My point was more that if you had a really fantastic prospect who wanted to come visit you with no obligations except to see if you might have the potential to be the right people for each other.   He is not asking you for a test drive of your body, or to make any committments other than to spend a little time seeing if there is compatability and potential.   He is asking for no more than to take you to a few nice dinners and to get to know each other.

To me considering a request like that to be a horrible thing and insulting is foolish.  The more choices we have the less likely we are to make mistakes.   Is it that smart to be making tentative life committments to strangers we have never met.  Look at what happened to the guy in the other thread who though he found the one and when he visited found out she was shacking up with some older dude.

I would not meet the first guy if he said that he is coming to visit several women. I would not meet the other guy at all, no matter what he says. If the 2nd guy was knock-out handsome, then id think about meeting him
Edit: Actually no, 2nd guy was married 3 times, that is a disqualifier along with other things, but that is the biggest one. So no meeting the 2nd guy no matter what

[Aloe]

Assume you are go to the city dance tomorrow night.  Across the room you see a man, and he appears to be the man of your dreams.   Would you prefer he looks at you for 3 seconds, then turns his head and ignores you the rest of the evening.  OR would you prefer he comes over, talks to you for 5 minutes, then one or the other decides to end it.   OR would you prefer he comes over, talks to you for 5 minutes,  then you go out to the dance floor and slow dance to the c/w song they are playing.....Holding you I held everything.  For a moment wasn't I the king.  But if I'd only known how the king would fall.  Hey who's to say, you know I might have changed it all.  And now I'm glad I didn't know.  The way it all would end, the way it all would go.  Our lives are better left to chance, I could have missed the pain.  But I'd of had to miss the dance.  Yes, my life is better left to chance.
I could have missed the pain,  but I'd of had to miss the dance.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3674595221543443747#

I prefer when he looks 2 seconds and turns away, because i do not wanna be a "ok well, ill settle down for her looks, cuz she got great personality", i want to be absolutely 100% attractive to the man im with, and not just someone he settled down for cuz of my personality. Personality is important, but its also important for me to be very attractive to the man im with, otherwise he will be looking at other women before you know it, even tho he might not go cheating, deep down he will be unsatisfied, i think.

[Aloe]

In a fantasy world, if the dream man across the room was a super handsome super rich super loyal and super honest and all else super all around guy, then sure, id take any kind of slightest chance to compete for him and be happy if he was attracted to me even if i wasnt his type. But in reality nobody is THAT super and there is always a lot of great guys somewhere around who will come into your life sooner or later, so if not this one, maybe the next one. Besides you have to know someone really well to know about his super inner qualities that would spark the desire to compete for him. When its just a random stranger, you dont know him, so why even bother competing with 10 other women ? They can have him

[JohnDearGreen]

In a fantasy world, if the dream man across the room was a super handsome super rich super loyal and super honest and all else super all around guy, then sure, id take any kind of slightest chance to compete for him and be happy if he was attracted to me even if i wasnt his type.

Maybe that is your dream man.  Why did you include "super rich" in your description of dream man?

I never wrote emails. Ok, maybe a couple in the VERY beginning. Always instant chat/voice chat, its just so much more convenient. And yes, id prefer him to stop talking before meeting if hes not interested, before i go and spend 200 bucks on my hair/make up :

I wouldn't want to see you in person, or in pictures, in your $200 hairdo.  I would prefer to see the real you.

But when hes here dating 5 women at once, that IS a competition, the one i would never partake in. He is supposed to be sweeping me off my feet; not the other way around

I thought it was a 2-way street.  Guess I missed a sign somewhere.

But in reality nobody is THAT super and there is always a lot of great guys somewhere around who will come into your life sooner or later

You don't consider your current guy to be "super"?  Well, yes, there are many, many, others for you to move on to.

Its different when you are just talking over skype, its not a competition at all, its just talking.

I did a VO once to Warsaw with a lady from Ukraine.  She was very attractive, but had gained 25 pounds since her pictures were taken.  No mention of that in her emails.  I don't think a dozen web cam sessions would have gotten her to reveal that either.  I suppose I could have asked to web cam her passport to check her age and address, and web cam her scales to check her weight, but I assume some honesty on the part of the lady.    Unfortunately, honesty, good character, morals, can be the difficult qualities to find and identify, even after meeting someone for a week.

[Gylden]

There are so many variables to this whole endeavor that it is over simplifying it to say it all boils down to VO or VM as some determiming factor. As KenC said and I agree 100% the objective for all of us is to get to the VO. (the woman we want to marry)
I think we all differ a little in this "screening process" and as personalities and abilities differ so do the methods.
Anyone can lie to the other (both the man and the woman) and the lie can be about something that is not easily be discovered, such as weight.
In my case, my wife had not advertised herself as a potential bride. I was looking for a wife and came across her in a chat. To make a long story short, we met in what would be called a VO in Warsaw (seems to be popular).

[JohnDearGreen]

I never wrote emails. Ok, maybe a couple in the VERY beginning. Always instant chat/voice chat, its just so much more convenient. And yes, id prefer him to stop talking before meeting if hes not interested, before i go and spend 200 bucks on my hair/make up Im just not going to compete with other women for his attention. Its different when you are just talking over skype, its not a competition at all, its just talking. But when hes here dating 5 women at once, that IS a competition, the one i would never partake in. He is supposed to be sweeping me off my feet; not the other way around I just wont have it if hes dating other women, then its his choice, im not going to be one of manymanymanymanymany.

Aloe, your opinions seem to have changed much now that you are married.  Now you are harping on never considering anything but a serious VO.  But here is one of your posts from a few months ago:

there is NO way that 10% of men are serious on EM, i was an active member for 3 years, its more like 1% of men are serious; at some point id agree to meet ANY guy who i remotely liked, because as experience showed, most of them werent gonna come over in any case, out of dozens who said they would come over, only 3 made it, and all 3 of them within 3 weeks of the first contact;
Sure they all sound serious, but in reality so few are