Getting past the Cut & Paste

[Turboguy]

Well just for the record it happened again.  Just a few seconds ago I got another e-mail from the 21 year old from Brunos former site that seemed to be really into me.  The last few letters have been a little hot.   Somewhere after felling my fingers all over her when she wakes in the morning and before kissing me all over and smellng my skin, she forgot to change the name.     Well, I guess it is better than being in the sack with someone and having them call you the wrong name.

[andrewfi]

Dunno about the dog, but for sure an average IQ is not 90.

[Turboguy]

Come to Beaver Falls for a visit and talk to a lot of people and see if you still feel that way.  Everyone with an IQ higher than 90 moved someplace warmer or better.  Yep, I am still here.

[andrewfi]

TG ~ You may live in a community of idiots, but the average IQ of all people is always 100.

[TigerPaws]

 I am sorry but the vast majority of people are lucky they are able to walk, talk and breathe at the same time.

 Case in point, sports fans who sit in front of the TV then yell scream and shout at the top of their lungs, like the people at the other side of the transmission can hear you.

[Bruce]

http://www.geocities.com/rnseitz/Definition_of_IQ.html

[TigerPaws]

Bruce,

 Thank you for making my point that the vast majority of people are lucky they are able to walk, talk and breathe at the same time.

 

[catzenmouse]

Bruce,

 Thank you for making my point that the vast majority of people are lucky they are able to walk, talk and breathe at the same time.

Luckily for them this prepares them for being elected to the government! :P:D

[Turboguy]

I wonder how they decided that Shakespeare and Newton had a much higher IQ than Einstein did?   Maybe because Einstein failed 3rd grade math but do we have Shakespeares third grade math scores?

[Bruce]

Is it still possible to find a great woman for a guy by old fashioned letter writing?  I believe it is still possible, but harder than years past.  Why?   I just tend to agree with Cassanova's post that the FSU is becomming much more technologically savy then we often realize.  My experience in Russia taught me that people would buy a new computer before they would think about upgrading their car.  Now, that already may be a higher class decision then alot of the girls whose families do not have cars.  However, the point is that technology, especially technology one can view the world with, like the internet via computer is extremely important to the average Russian family.  By inference, I believe the whole FSU is learning about computers, wants more computer technology and with it world knowledge.  Now, people can certainly make a strong impression by old fashioned letter writing.  In the more rural areas / smaller cities and villages I believe letter writing still has a huge place - but it is just a belief.  I've written it once and I'll write again that letter writing never worked for me.  I believe a letter of introduction saying when you will be in a girl's city is enough / perhaps the girl writes you back so you know she may be interested when you get there and that is it.  However, alot of guys found their other half by systematic, persistent letter writing, so I am sure it is a formula which should work with the caveat that it is too the more rural / smaller village regions.

[andrewfi]

:offtopic:IQ is sometimes estimated by examing the development and achievements of a young person to the age of 26. Einstein did not display the traits of a very intelligent person and was headed for a life of mediocrity. He was a very lucky man not to end up up fullfilling his manifest destiny. Shakespeare was a very different kettle of fish, accomplishing a huge amount in his younger years. Newton's early life, I know nothing about.

That said, I was not aware that such estimates and comparisons had been made of the three men. But here is a helpful chart, badly formatted, that estimates all three as very significant intellects:

IQ[/b] Range


Frequency


Cumulative
Frequency


Typical Educability


Employment
Options



Below 30


>1%
>1% below 30
Illiterate
Unemployable. Institutionalized.



30 to 50


>1%?
>1% below 50
1st-Grade to 3rd-Grade
Simple, non-critical household chores.



50 to 60


~1%?
1.5% below 60
3rd-Grade to 6th-grade
Very simple tasks, close supervision.



60 to 74


3.5%?
5% below 74
6th-Grade to 8th-Grade
"Slow, simple, supervised."



74 to 89


20%
25% below 89
8th-Grade to 12th-Grade
Assembler, food service, nurse's aide



89 to 100


25%
50% below 100
8th-Grade to 1-2 years of College.
Clerk, teller, Walmart

100 to 111


50%
1 in 2 above 100
12th-Grade to College Degree
Police officer, machinist, sales

111 to 120


15%
1 in 4 above 111
College to Master's Level
Manager, teacher, accountant

120 to 125


5%
11 in 10above 120
College to Non-Technical Ph. D.'s.
Manager, professor, accountant

125 to 132


3%
1 in 20 above 125
Any Ph. D. at 3rd-Tier Schools
Attorney, editor, executive.

132 to 137


1%
1 in 50 above 132
No limitations.
Eminent professor, editor

137 to 150


0.9%
1 in 100 above 137
No limitations.
Leading math, physics professor

150 to 160


0.1%
1 in 1,100 above 150
No limitations
Lincoln, Copernicus, Jefferson

160 to 174


0.01%
1 in 11,000 above 160
No limitations
Descartes, Einstein[/b], Spinoza

174 to 200


0.0099%
1 in 1,000,000
above 174
No limitations
Shakespeare, Goethe, Newton

[KenC]

I have got to agree with you, Bruce.  Letter writing has worked for some, but there are certainly other ways.  Like the phone.  Of course, for the phone to be of any real use, the RW will have to have at least some basic English skills, which would always would be a requirement of mine.

I would send an email letter to my wife and pour my heart out for a couple of pages and would receive back a couple of sentences in reply.  The truth was that her spoken English was far superior than her writen English skills and she is just a more verbal person in general.  I would think that a phone call is about the best and most practical way to get to know another person short of face to face time.  I guess a video camera on a computer would be even better, but then you are limtied to RW with that available technology which would be rather small.  Most all RW have a phone or access to one.

KenC

[docetae]

IQ testing will only determine a kind of intelligence and will not  address sensibility, creativity, etc. This is just an arbitrary scale  and must be not used as an universal rating....

Doc

[andrewfi]

IQ testing will only determine a kind of intelligence and will not address sensibility, creativity, etc. This is just an arbitrary scale and must be not used as an universal rating....

Doc

true, but, the ordinaries are soooo dim, no matter how personable they may be, or how good at finger painting.

[al-c]

Meanwhile, back on track to this topic, here is the way I approach it:

I have my form letter, as do most of us, that I had professionally translated into Russian.  I send it in Russian, and if the lady's profile shows some English proficiency, I send the English version too.

If she writes to me first and asks a large number of specific questions, I will write specifically to her and answer the questions and ask my own questions, and then attach the form letter as a Word doc, explaining to her that it is my letter of introduction to tell her about myself, instead of pretending that it is my real letter to her.

But if I write to her first (which I rarely do), or if I get nothing from her but some generic BS as her first letter, she then gets my form letter as my first letter to her.  Her second letter (if I get that far) will see a response from me of a specific letter to her.

What do you want to write?  Focus on her, not on you.  If she asks questions about you, then you answer them, but you want to ask things about her and mention what attracted you to her in the first place.  This way you create ideas for her to put in her next letter to you to keep the process going.

There is no script.  I make my move, wait to see what happens, and plan my next move based on what happened.

 

[solomon]

     You've met over 155 FSU gals that speak and write english fluent enought to correspond with you by email?  Interesting.  I've met a LOT of men, men with a LOT of money, and who have 12 or more visits to the FSU under their belt... plus a LOT of experience on my own, and quite frankly, to rely on this method alone, you must have had both a LOT of time over there, AND a very well organized letter writing campaign and methodology.  In order to get that amount of real women showing, you must have written hundreds more, which indicates a cut a paste approach, or one who's stuck to the keyboard   Congratulations  

Casanova,

 While I generally agree with you, it is with personal experience that I disagree that letter writing has little to no value. 
 [/quote]Didn't you write a ton of letters to your current wife before you met her or am I taking this out of context?

[Casanova]

To the contrary, I met my fiance', whom I've known for well over a year, in person, and lived with since June, by chance at a marriage agency.  In other words, I was there for other reasons, actually a friend of mine at the time OWNED it, and I was helping him.  I met her, actually as I met another American, whom she was in the company of.  She later became my interpreter, and we developed a relationship from there.  I had, before coming to the FSU, written a "ton" of letters, and believe it to be an absolute WASTE of TIME & Money UNLESS:

1.  You are within 4-6 weeks of your arrival.

2.  Are already THERE (over there, or here, as the case is with me).

    If you meet one of the above parameter's, I think your chances are excellent that you can line up as many dates or "meetings" as you want, if you have average or better looks, are sincere, show you are SERIOUS, are prepared for a REAL meeting, and so on.  I've met women through Matchmaker, european connections (globalladies), marriage agencies of various kinds, and even Absolute Agency, as well as ads in the local papers (for fun, ie. erotic photomodels, interpreters, etc.), on the street, on the metro, the bus, etc. etc.  You can waste TONS of money and time, by writing more than one woman, (and HER's too, and they know this) if you don't meet the above parameters.  It's simple, action is king, and unless you really want to roll the dice (and layout the cash & time) and take a big risk, which in most cases won't pan out, outside the above 2 parameter's, letter writing is a loss in MOST cases.  If you meet the above two parameters... have fun, and prepare to meet and date LOT of women - period. 

[Casanova]

Gentlemen, I am STILL at this moment, IN THE FSU, and I can assure you ALL, as most of you know, that even in the poorest part, most ALL the girls have mobile phones, and almost in every city VERY MODERN nice up to date internet cafes complete in many cases with webcams, microphones, and chat software.  You can send her a copy of Pimsleur www.cheappimsleur.com (I knew a guy who even THINKS Russian, ordered ALL 3 Russian pimsleur courses, copied them all, and sent them back by mail to the company at that link, and got $300 back on the 3 courses sent back in TRUE STORY    or ENGLISH for Russian speakers if she needs some more basic fluency in english... these 3 course will bring her to ESL Level 3. All for $135 plus shipping. Not bad! (price after copying and returning)

   Really... letter writing is a waste of time unless you meet the 2 conditions given in earlier post of mine.  Phone calls are CHEAP or FREE through the net now, and as I said, there is darn near an internet cafe on EVERY corner of the major or even MIDSIZE FSU cities and towns... TRUST ME.  SO why WRITE letters when you can chat, and talk by phone through the net or by mobile or in many cases her LANDLINE.

In fact, I only met ONE girl who didn't have a home phone... and she was probably LYING to me about that.  These folks maybe on a VERY VERY small budget, but they dress WELL (given the circumstances) and HAVE PHONES that DO WORK!!!

 

 

[TigerPaws]

[color="#0000ff"][size="4"][size="4"]Casanova,
 
 Sorry but I beg to disagree with you, postal letters  and e-mail still have their place, now I will agree on the time frame 4 to 6  weeks in today's world seems to be very reasonable. In the past I have gone as  long as a year before actually meeting the lady but that was an extreme and she  was from deep into Siberia where she did not have a telephone or access to  e-mail.  [/size][/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"][size="4"][/size][/size][/color]

 [color="#0000ff"][size="4"][size="4"]Maybe Casanova it  is not the letter writing which is the problem but the letter  writer.[/size][/size][/color]    [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]

  As an example of a  successful letter writing campaign, I submit the actual time line and my notes  from my letter writing to my now wife up until the time I actually met  her. The average length of my letters was in general a min of 1,500 words and as much as 3,000 words, each letter was carefully translated into Russian and every one of her letters to me was in Russian and had to be translated into English.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]

03-24 - Sent standard letter but no  hand written letter, sent 2 IRC's and self addressed envelope[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"] [color="#000000"]
            (note  an IRC refers to International Reply Coupon from the Post office not in my  notes[/color][/size][/color][color="#000000"][size="4"]).[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
04-09 - Received e-mail and 3 photo's  today, very nice.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
04-10 - Sent her 4 page letter  translated into Russian and 2 photo's
            by e-mail @ 9:40pm.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
04-15 - Received 21/4 page letter by  e-mail in Russian, sent it out
            for translation @ 8:00am.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
04-17 - Sent 21/2 page e-mail in  Russian.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
05-09 - Received 11/2 page e-mail in  Russian sent out for
            translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
05-14 - Sent 2/12 page e-mail in  Russian.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
05-26 - Received 1 page e-mail in  Russian, sent it out for
            translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
05-28 - Received 1 page e-mail sent  it out for translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
05-28 - Sent 3 page letter by  e-mail translated into Russian
             along with invitation to meet me in[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"] Nassau with scanned
             photo of Atlantis[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"] Resort  literature.[/size][/color]
 [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]06-02 - Received 2 page e-mail in  Russian, sent it out for
             translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
06-04 - Sent thinking of you card by  Air mail with 2 photo's.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]06-04 - Sent 2 page e-mail in Russian  at 10:45 pm.[/size][/color]  [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
06-07 - Received very short e-mail  giving me telephone number and
             time to call.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
06-09 - Talked to Victoria for about  20 minutes, connection very
             bad, she[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"] had a friend help with translations.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]06-10 - Sent thinking of you card by  Air mail with photo's.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
06-16 - Received 1 page letter in  Russian, sent it out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]06-18 - Sent 3 page letter by e-mail  in Russian.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
06-22 - Received 1 page e-mail in  Russian, sent it out for
             translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
06-29 - Received 11/2 page e-mail in  Russian, sent it out for
             translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
06-29 - Sent thinking of you card by  Air mail with photo's.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
06-30 - 12:15 am sent 3 page 1500  word letter in Russian.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
07-16 - Received 2 page e-mail in  Russian along with 2 nice
            photo's, sent letter to be translated.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
07-20 - [/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]Sent 21/2 page letter by e-mail in Russian with new flying
             photo.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
07-29 - Received 1 page e-mail in  Russian, sent out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]08-03 - Sent 1 page letter in Russian  by e-mail.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]08-11 - Sent short e-mail in Russian  telling her I was
([color="#000000"]? can not read my  note[/color])
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]08-24 - Received 1 page e-mail in  Russian, sent out for translation.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]08-26 - Sent 1 page e-mail in  Russian.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-01 - Received 1 page e-mail in  Russian, sent out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-02 - Sent 2 page letter by e-mail  in Russian.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-08 - Received 1 page letter in  Russian, sent out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-08 - Sent 2 page letter by e-mail  in Russian.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
09-14 - [/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]Sent thinking of you card by Air Mail  with photo.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-16 - Received 1 page letter by  e-mail, sent out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-17 - Sent 2 page letter by e-mail  in Russian and thinking of you
            card by Air Mail.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
09-17 - Received short 1/2 page  e-mail, sent out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-19 - Called and talked to her for  45 min. Talked about Nassau
             trip w/translator all set to go.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-22 - Sent her flight schedule and  info for our trip in
             October/November.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"] 09-23 - Received 1 page letter in  Russian, sent out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]09-29 - Received 2 e-mails and more  photo's of her (WOW!) sent
            e-mail out for translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
09-30 - Sent short e-mail in Russian  on where to pick up her airline
             tickets.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-01 - Sent 2 page letter by e-mail  in Russian and new photo's of
             me in bridge.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-05 - Sent thinking of you card by  Air Mail with photo.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-07 - Received 2 e-mails 1-telling  me the round trip air fair to
             Moscow was $100.00 dollars [/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]and how to get it to  her, 2nd
             e-mail was thank you for sending flowers that I arranged a
             week ago which she received at her work today.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-10 - Sent thinking of you card by  Air Mail with photo.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-12 - Received short thank you for  flower photo's.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-12 - Received short letter from  her about our trip, sent to be
             translated.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-12 - Sent 11/2 page letter in  Russian by e-mail.[/size][/color]
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]10-16 - Received 1 page letter in  Russian, sent out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]10-17 - Received 1 page letter in  Russian, sent out for translation.
[/size][/color][color="#0000ff"][size="4"]10-23 - Received 1 page letter in  Russian by e-mail, sent out for
            translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-24 - Sent 11/2 page letter in  Russian[/size][/color]  [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-25 - Called again, good talk with  her, went very well, she is
             learning English, she is excited about our  trip.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-25 - 10:00 pm Received short  e-mail in Russian, sent out for
             translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-27 - Received short e-mail, sent  out for translation.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-27 - Sent message in English about  trip.[/size][/color]  
[color="#0000ff"][size="4"]10-29 - Sent romantic love note  knowing she will NOT see it before
            she returns after Nassau trip, she is on her  way.[/size][/color]  [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-29 - Purchased nice diamond heart  necklace from Zales $105.00
            dollars for her as a gift (nice) also purchased nice  but
            inexpensive diamond ring $250.00 dollars for her in case
            she is the  one.[/size][/color] [color="#0000ff"][size="4"]
10-29 - I am off to meet  her.[/size][/color][/size][/color]

[Casanova]

We really DO NOT disagree, as you confirmed my suggestion on the 4-6 weeks arrival time for letter writing to be a reasonable investment of TIME and MONEY.  It may be FREE if your FSU woman/lady/girl can write her own letters, and paritcularly THEN they will be SHORT and BRIEF.  I know... because it's difficult for even the more level 5 fluent english speakers to WRITE in english at length, and when they do, it will be with many mistakes, and NOT a long letter.

   I aced every english class I took, and I dated all the women I wanted in various ways, letter writing included, from various agencies and websites for FREE and PAID both.  I speak from EXPERIENCE, and I've spent more than a year with men from all over the world doing the same thing YOU and I are doing.  It IS a WASTE of TIME in 99% of the cases, and if you are an exception to the rule, then applause for you! It's an ILLUSION, unless you meet the above parameter of being within 4-6 weeks of your arrival time to actually MEET these ladie(s) or girl(s), and or UNLESS YOU ARE ALREADY THERE!  In that case, have at it, and write away... there are PLENTY of women who on first, second, or third, or fourth letter will HOP on a train and be on their way to meet you in Moscow, Keiv, St. Petersburg, etc.  OR INVITE you to COME TO THEM in their city.  It's EASY. 

    I have had girls from letter writing WHEN I WAS THERE IN THE FSU come and meet me from: Kherson, Mariupol (Matchdoctor, FREE, and FREE meet, she paid for her train ticket and came to meet, SUPER hot gorgeous gal, great woman), Melitopol, Sumy, Kharkov (Absolute Agency at $25 a month unlimited letters but high scam rate, though some gems amongst the rough), Nikolaev, etc.  I have used local agencies in Kiev, European Connections (one of the best in my opinion, though some canned letters and some unethical ladies, who's perfect in the marriage agency/website letter translation business?), and before I knew better, Anastasiaweb.

    Your suggestion that perhaps it's the person behind the letter writing is absurd. Here are some examples of exactly WHY you should NOT correspond with the FSU Ladies by letters unless you meet the TWO PARAMETERS 1. BEIN THERE ALREADY  2. Being within 4-6 weeks of your arrival/meeting date

1.  Translators make mistakes all the time, because THEIR ENGLISH is rarely fluent, and THAT is a FACT (often the case).

2.  Interpreters/Translators often times make INTENTIONAL MISTAKES for various agendas, and personal intentions (like I got my money, I want to go home now, to I want to fail this meeting so me and my agency can move you on to the next girl and I can get another $6-$10 out of the deal per hour myself).

3.  The FSU woman/girl WILL NOT TAKE YOU SERIOUS.  She get's an average of 40 letters a week minimum if she's HOT (small town model looking girl) and signed on with an agency (which is why she said they took her letters and emailed them out to all 40 guys she had written ME).  The FSU woman in large cities like Kiev, Moscow, St. Petersburg see foreign men COME and GO all the time, and here the stories ALL the time and SEE the foreigners with 2-3 women every day or every few days... foreign men have a reputation amongst the FSU folks in the cities, and so no one is ignorant nor blind to what is going on.  NO ONE, every FEW, have the TIME or MONEY (internet cafes cost, so does internet TIME) to waste on anyone who is less than SERIOUS in meeting or developing a STRONG relationship (plus the girls themselves have work and or university).

4. She may leave to be with someone else.  I was writing a girl in Odessa, a wonderful woman, and we had great correspondence, and learned a lot about each other, and enjoyed the correspondence.  One day she wrote and says "I am sorry, but I must stop our correspondence now.  I have met John, and he's a really wonderful man, and though I am not sure if he is my destiny or not, I think he's a good man, and he's invited me to come to marry him and live in his country, so to be true to this relationship, I must end our correspondence now.  You ALWAYS have a friend in Odessa, and if you come to visit, please write to me and let me know, and by the way, I have a FRIEND who is looking for a foreign husband, do you want her photograph and email?  She's a REALLY good girl, and she's serious about finding a husband.



Want me to go on?  I can... that's ONLY the beginning... and only a few basic points and experiences... trust me, I can go on.  If you are corresponding with a woman in the FSU you've NEVER met, and do NOT meet the above 2 parameters, 99% of the time, you are wasting PRECIOUS TIME and money, both YOURS and theirs, unless you get off on some illusionary ego, or think you are 'doing something' when you are only all talk, and on paper, and words in the FSU are cheap, and worthless.  Action is King, and there are TON's of websites and agencies, and interpreters, and translators that would LOVE to take your money.

     Besides, within the first few letters, if you are speaking by phone, your dealing with a scammer, or Sasha sitting at the agency behind a keyboard trying to romance you to come over, so they can bait and switch you to go on one of their tours, or spend a ton at the agency... remember, everyone is getting a percentage off you... from the time you rent your first apartment, to the taxi, to the interpreters, to the guy on the street who sells you a rose... it's NO Joke, and THAT's reality.

     I know... I've dated interpreters too... in fact, I am marrying a private interpreter.  We will be married in two weeks.  I think I know what I am talking about, because I haven't even gone into the experiences of the many men I've met and spent countless hours with in this process and pursuit.  Don't WASTE your HEART, TIME, and MONEY on FSU women you've never met unless you MEET THE ABOVE TWO PARAMETERS in letter writing, and if you don't have a phone number and aren't making phone calls and phone conversations within the first 4 letters, you are wasting your time on a girl that has alterior motives, or some Sasha keyboard romeo who wants to get you to come over to line the pockets of him and his agency. PERIOD.

 

[Casanova]

I should add that good for you, but again, you are an exception to the RULE, and that dear friend, IS A FACT.  I met FAR FAR more men who completely wasted all time and money on letter writing outside the 2 parameters given.  You might get lucky, and be an exception to the rule... but it is generally NOT the case, and NOT the way to go about it, not at all.  Again, EUROPEAN CONNECTIONS BROUGHT IN OVER $20 Million in 2004 (gross).  Now, dear friends, that is a LOT of cash flow off the ignorant and uneducated and certainly UNEXPERIENCED men in this process,,,, isn't it???  Of course it is... and WHERE are all the happily successfuly married men from that $20 million in cash flow from that ONE company in this marriage agency business???

    Do the math sports fans.  There are about 4,000 admitted into the U.S. each year... is that correct???  So divide 20 million (just from European Connections cash flow in 2004) by 4,000 to be ULTRA WAY conservative.  Hmmm... seems to me that some men are REALLY seriously WASTING a LOT of cash on letter writing... those of us with real experience know the reality of what I have just presented.  Think about it

[docetae]

writing to only one woman since 3 months now ...and will meet only one when I will be in Ukraine, in two months now. I should have everything wrong.

Perhaps because I'm not looking first for a FSU woman and I don't care to lose a few hundreds $ here, but we have exchanged 112 letters in the last 3 months and I can tell you no letter was talking about the weather ..

I will be quickly fixed as I will meet her at the airport.

So I believe there is no rule ... this depend just of the person. I'm not doing my shopping to find someone.

[TigerPaws]

[color="blue"][size="4"][size="4"]Casanova,

 You are making assumptions biased on facts not yet in  evidence, the translators I recommend using are highly trained professionals  here in America not someone in the FSU interviewed and hired by the man or  recommended by an agency, while mistakes in translation happen they are far more  rare with professional U.S, based business  translators.[/size][/size][/color] [color="blue"] [/color]

 [color="blue"][size="4"] You have made reference to  some known and highly suspect agencies which brings into question your motives,  perhaps you are nothing more than a troll for these  agencies.[/size][/color] [color="blue"] [/color]  [color="blue"][size="4"]

 There is no single path to  enlightenment and more than one way to go about finding a lady from the FSU, a  man could use the slam-bam-thank-you-mama approach that you suggest or a more  methodical approach, both could and have resulted in success and failure there  are no guarantees.[/size][/color] [color="blue"] [/color] [color="blue"][size="4"]

 I would say the only point  of agreement between us is the time line of 4 to 6 weeks other than that our  methods are vastly different. I have and am currently assisting a number of men  in their search and the more methodical approach is not for everyone, then again  neither is your approach yet both can arrive at the same  goal.[/size][/color] [color="blue"] [/color] [color="blue"][size="4"] 

 There is little question  you are passionate about your belief that your approach is the only road to  success, unfortunately many people who are so single minded fail to see the  forest for the trees and rarely understand that their are many paths through the  forest.[/size][/color] [color="blue"] [/color]  [color="blue"][size="4"]

 Casanova you are not the  only person with some experience, many others have gone forth into the unknown  in this endeavor to find a lady within the FSU with various degrees of failure  and success all by different methods. I wrote hundreds of letters, kept a former  U.S. State Department translator on retainer for almost 3 years, physically met  with 32 ladies in the FSU (I forgot about the 3 I met here in America, 1 was  here on an H1B, the other on the rare tourist visa and 1 was a nanny which makes  for 36 different ladies). [/size][/color] [color="blue"] [/color]

[color="#0000ff"][size="4"][color="blue"] So please do not suggest  that your way is the only way and that other methods are less sussessful you are not the only person  experience in this matter.[/color]
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[Casanova]

I am not connected to anyone or any "agency" and simply SHARE my experience and mention a few that I DO have experience with, and those are NOT the only ones.

   My way or advice is certainly not the only way, but I've met, literally over 50 men or more in the last year LIVING in Kiev, and traveling in the FSU, and am in the FSU at this very moment.  The marriage agency business scams are one of the most fraudulent biggest rip offs today, and the F.B.I. and U.S. Embassy both has WARNINGS on their pages ABOUT THEM, particularly in reference to KIEV (look at the U.S. Embassy website).  Troll for agencies?  Give me a break, I wouldn't recommend doing it, as I said, unless you over there, or within 4-6 weeks of arrival.  And for the average man or person pursuing this adventure, my advice still holds true.  You suggested in an earlier post that maybe it was the person behind the letters not the letter writing (suggesting I have a problem   Now you suggest I am some sort of agency plant or troll.  What laughable nonsense!  Your story is wonderful, but I wouldn't be selling the pipe dream and YOUR WAY to the average guy.  Why?  Because the odds are of succes in the way YOU are approaching it are VERY slim, and VERY rare.  To the one who posted about not caring to find a wife or girlfriend or rather implying your on a sex tour, the very same rules apply.  I know, my buddies, some of them, where into that too... though they never admitted it (I mean, after a year of having 3-4 NEW girls every week on average for meetings and so on... NEVER.

     The U.S. Embassy website WARNS about this, the sites I mention are VERY HIGH in scams and scammers.. though there are some gems in the rough... and I am suspect for??? 

     I stand on what I said, and I STAND correct.  You played a fool's approach and WON, great, good for you, that's super,,, really it is, and I wish you THE VERY BEST of luck in your relationship.  But to sell that very DIFFICULT and RISKY and NOT LIKELY to succeed approach to other's is a bit irresponsible.  Again, I am NOT just speaking from my own experience, which is probably MORE vast than any of you, I am speaking from hearing the experiences of airline pilots, millionaires, real estate investors, teachers, businessmen, etc. who were in the FSU, who I spent time with, and heard about their SUCCESSES and FAILURES.  I spent well over a year in Kiev, and a year and half in the FSU so far in total.... and was involved in "letter writing" YEARS before that buddy... and I've got friends that are still looking for "wives" and some still "sex touring".  WE ALL know that your method is a waste of time and money for the average man... it may have worked FOR YOU, and it WILL for SOME, but VERY very few.  The better and more successful approach is as I stated it.  I wouldn't feed into the MULTIMILLION dollar scam of "letter writing" and the marriage agency business... it has to be done, as JB would agree, VERY wisely, and VERY carefully.  I suggest you quite making accusations about me, and stay focused on the message, NOT the messenger -  Those of strong mind, always do.

[TigerPaws]

[color="blue"][size="4"]Casanova,[/size][/color] [color="blue"][size="4"] [/size][/color]  [color="blue"][size="4"]

 My you are the sensitive one, if you  bothered to read my post carefully I never accused you of anything only asked if  there might be a connection and as I said there is no one way to go about  finding a lady. Just for your personal enlightenment I spend 3 full years in  Russia with side trips to many of the former Soviet block countries before  starting my search for a lady, so you still have a ways to go if you want to  talk about time in country.[/size][/color] [color="blue"][size="4"] [/size][/color]  [color="blue"][size="4"]

 As for the average Joe seeking a  lady from the FSU, I have often maintained and postd on this forum, this endeavor is not for the  average Joe, the commitment in resources (time and money) are far in excess of  what most men can commit or have available. While your slam-bam-thank-you-mam  approach may work sometimes as I said their is no one way to handle this search  or process.[/size][/color] [color="blue"][size="4"]

[/size][/color]  [color="blue"][size="4"]Most men who have been through this process [/size][/color][color="blue"][size="4"]would[/size][/color][color="blue"][size="4"] agree the 1 week  wonder is normally destined to failure yet we lived close to and knew very well  2 couples who met just that way and yet over 3 years later they are still  together and doing well, so there are no hard fast rules about finding a lady  from the FSU.[/size][/color] [color="blue"][size="4"] [/size][/color]  [color="blue"][size="4"]

 You say I played a fools approach,  maybe in your more limited experience but not in mine and others so labeling another  method as a fools approach indicates your way is the only way therefore you are  saying that you are the end all expert in this matter as I understand  you.

  [/size][/color][color="blue"][size="4"]I put forth a sucessful letter[/size][/color][color="blue"][size="4"] writing[/size][/color][color="blue"][size="4"] campaign time line in detail which  resulted in a successful meeting, not all of the meetings using this  methoid were successful, there was 35 meetings which were not a success over a  several year time frame. That does not make the methiod right or wrong, just  another way of doing things.[/size][/color]