I am surprised....

[Seeker]

Your politicians are angels compared to Ukrainian politicians.   While the US system is not perfect, crooked politicians do go to jail.

My MIL lived through a lot.  She lived in Kyiv during the occupation, survived the starvation and poverty after the war, and she has never seen anything like what is happening now.  The levels of corruption would leave you speechless.

Sadly a young nation shows its youth.  I think it will take more than one election to change things.  There is a lot that needs to be worked out, and it will come in time.  The US is still trying to get it right, we are young too.  Ukraine is just starting.  But the decisions made now will shape the future.  Maybe not in weeks or even years.  Evolution is often slow, but is done best by realizing what can be, and not what is.  Always be aware of what "is", but don't be limited by it.


Okay, I am being naive again.  But hope is all people have. I like to hope for the best knowing that even if I do not see it, it will come.

[Boethius]

I used to think like that, Seeker.  A lot of kids of DP's (displaced persons) of Ukrainian descent flocked to Ukraine after the Soviet collapse to help build a country.  My husband predicted they'd all leave, disillusioned.  I disagreed and he said he knew the people, he knew the mentality, and he predicted how it would play out (exactly as it has).  Almost all of them did leave, disillusioned, or stay but know what type of country they're living in.  Some became criminals themselves (Roman Zvarych, Kateryna Yushchenko).

The FSU was an extremely corrupt country, and that "tradition" has continued in most countries of the FSU.  Russia has been dealing with this, somewhat effectively, for years now.   Ukraine, alas, has not.  Those in power see it as a method of enriching themselves.

You can't really draw comparisons to the US.  At the time the Declaration of Independence was written, the US was home to 4 world geniuses who were instrumental in shaping the country.  Further, if Washington, Jefferson, Adams and Franklin had been stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, I am not sure the US would have succeeded.

[Seeker]

I used to think like that, Seeker.  A lot of kids of DP's (displaced persons) of Ukrainian descent flocked to Ukraine after the Soviet collapse to help build a country.  Most left disillusioned.  The FSU was an extremely corrupt country, and that "tradition" has continued in most countries of the FSU.  Russia has been dealing with this, somewhat effectively, for years now.   Ukraine, alas, has not.  Those in power see it as a method of enriching themselves.

You can't really draw comparisons to the US.  At the time the Declaration of Independence was written, the US was home to 4 world geniuses who were instrumental in shaping the country.  Further, if Washington, Jefferson, Adams and Franklin had been stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, I am not sure the US would have succeeded.

They may not have, but many of those that followed have.  And the "top" is easier to fix.  It is more visible.  It is all of the layers of corruption beneath it that are harder to correct.

As far as Ukrainian history, I am currently reading a few good books a friend recommended.  I am trying to learn, but they are big books!   

Every day is a new beginning.  We learn from the past.  We exist in the present.  We shape the future.

[ECOCKS]

A bad time still ahead for Ukraine.

Inflation, unemployment, financial disaster, social unrest and no consideration of the people.

[JR]

You can't really draw comparisons to the US.  At the time the Declaration of Independence was written, the US was home to 4 world geniuses who were instrumental in shaping the country.  Further, if Washington, Jefferson, Adams and Franklin had been stealing everything that wasn't nailed down, I am not sure the US would have succeeded.

Conversely, they lost everything. But they gained an idea and a nation.

Sorry Seeker but I disagree. Our past is our future. The US is where it is today because of where we started from. History says that only violence will end the current situation in Ukraine. And then most likely it will be replaced by something of equal or even greater ruination.

[Seeker]

Conversely, they lost everything. But they gained an idea and a nation.

Sorry Seeker but I disagree. Our past is our future. The US is where it is today because of where we started from. History says that only violence will end the current situation in Ukraine. And then most likely it will be replaced by something of equal or even greater ruination.

You may be right, but the optimist in me would like to hope there is a chance for a better outcome.  Time will tell.

[Shadow]

Looking at the candidates in Ukraine, none of the first five seems to be without crime.

But as the famous Sasha Belov said: "One can be faced with situations where there is no alternative but to break the law. Hoewever what is important is that people know me as someone who keeps his promises."

Now for a small analysis.
1. Yanukovich 35.4% - actually a lot lower as the polls who predicted 45%
2. Timoschenko 25% - about similar to the poll
3. Tigipko 13,4% - A miljardair who got votes because at least he does not need to steal.
4. (forgot) 7% -
5. Yuschenko 5.4% - His claims of believing to win the elections when he cast his vote were met with laughter.


The other 13 candidates got 13.8% of the votes, which seems a decent amount considering nobody gave them a chance.
Only 60% of the voters showed up, and this really shows the disappointment of Ukrainians in politics.

As for the next round, it must be feared that Timoschenko will somehow snatch away victory. Interesting nevertheless that the two remaining candidates have both been accused of being pro-Moscow.

As for a violent ending, the only thing needed is for a politician who tries to build the country instead of building his own wealth.

Something interesting:

Tymochenko has already accused Yanukovich of perpetrating massive fraud, and has sent hundreds of Georgian election observers into his eastern Ukraine power base, where some have been ejected from polling stations by police.

The Georgian ' observers'  arrived one day early in Donetsk and were not registered anywhere as observers, just appeared out of the blue. They were all young, muscular guys, type ' brother'.