In Kiev now

[jb]

IIRC, in your first post you said you owed me an apology, but you never  bothered to contact me personally with the real thing.  I was  waiting for that which never came.  So,,, as far as I'm concerned,  you are just another newbie with a bunch of wild ideas gong  nowhere.  (Who, BTW, owes me money).

[Oosik]

I made a public apology, as I had years ago bashed you in public. A public insult and a private apology is pretty insincere.

Anyway, if 4 years on the boards, 2 trips and an engagement make me a newby with wild ideas going nowhere, then I suppose I will not achieve your high stature until I'm a pompus old fart myself.

No apology will be forthcoming for that.

Regarding the LTP entry fee, you volunteered to do that on yahoo messenger with no expectation of repayment. To bring it up in public like it was a loan just makes me remember what part of your charm caused me to unload on you before.

PS Hope you enjoyed my trip report.

[jb]

Just so the rest of the boards understands where this all came from,  Oosik was a member of RWG years ago, I don't recall his screen name  that long ago, but Martin, (I think that's right) was hung up, under  employed, cash poor, and drooling over a little strawberry blond listed  on Life Time Partners in Tver.  He claimed he was saving  religiously for a trip to see her, after listening to him cry for  awhile I offered to help him out, as I have often helped others, and I  advanced him the price of the LTP membership to jump start the  relationship, as he wanted to begin writing to her immediately.   Shortly thereafter he went ballistic on the board and got his ass  banned, I've never heard from him since until he showed up here the  other day.

So much for the good friendships of old.  Thanks, Martin,,, I really appreciate that.  Talk about "classless......."

[Admin]

Hey guys - what is that saying: "Let bygones be bygones" - whatever that means.

Let's leave the garbage from a previous board on that previous board.

I am not so naive as to expect we all start anew - but we sure don't need to drag other board's garbage onto this one.

TIA

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

Ken,

Thank you for the "classless" comment. 

As it happens I know Oosik from another life.  While I won't  pretend to judge his latest escapade, I do know he's capable of being  pretty hard headed in many regards, he's very conservative  politically,  (almost qualifies for membership in the KKK), in  addition to being hard to get along with in general.  He has a  fairly volatile temper and can lash out even at people who have been  friendly to him and done him big favors.   He crapped on me  pretty good several years ago after I had gone to no small expense to  help him when he couldn't scrape together enough money to join LTP's  membership.

Frankly, I had hoped he'd given up on finding a FSU wife, as I now don't think he's fit company for man nor beast. 

Unfortunately, he's back.

Added:  Yes, I do hold a grudge for some past injuries.

I can hold grudges with the best of them. Understand that there is  history here and I apologise if I insulted you with my comments. I  respect your outlook and opinions on many things. If there are things  that need to be talked about privately then that is the way to go with  it. I just don't want to see these fights continue on into the future  and I guess I should be held accountable for my pissy posts as well. I  could have said that in a less $hitty way.

Ken

[jb]

Ken,

No problem, there was no way you could have known the history  involved.  Please, just remember, I don't attack or insult without  reason.  Usually there's something going on in the background that  will prompt such a post, in this case it was intended for Oosik, not  for you, or consumption by the board at large.

[Oosik]

Ken,
... in this case it was intended for Oosik, not  for you, or consumption by the board at large.

So either you're a newbie and don't know how to use the private message function (not true) or your statement above was dishonest (true)

Your entire intent was to position yourself above me in a public way. Why your ego is so fragile, I don't know. But thanks for your contributions to what was supposed to be a trip report. I told my story just so you could throw out an unprovoked attempt at an insult. I'm too new to this board to know if comparing me to Photo Guy is an insult, but knowing you he must have dissagreed with you and your ego couldn't handle it.

[jb]

No, Martin, Photoguy is just another newbie, like you, who got engaged  to a woman he doesn't know,,,, in less than a week's worth of visit to  Ukraine.  And like you, he thinks "commitment to an ideal" is more  important than getting to know the woman he's offered to share his life  with.   Although, unlike you, he didn't get kissed during the  week he spent there, so I guess you are slightly ahead in that regard.    IIRC, you weren't too smart back on the RWG 4 years ago, and I  see you haven't made much progress since then.

And, Martin, if I decide to insult you, I will use words of four letters...

[Shadow]

Without having a history here I share the idea of jb on Oosik being a bit too fast for his own good.

The 'proud Kiev' girl was right. You found a woman in Chernigov. She probably knew that the women there (as they live in smaller towns) have to be more agressive. And Oosik would have been very disappointed had he not gotten engaged on this trip. The trip report shows he was out to do this from the beginning.

Nevertheless Oosik, congratulations and I wish you a lot of luck. You will need it.

[info_man]

JB,

They are both adults and they have to live with the decisions they make in life, not us or you JB.

I am a conservative and find your detestable statement undiscerning.  I'm white and lien towards the right, but I am far from being a racist.

If your not a liberal by 20, you are heartless.
If you not a conservative by 40, you are mindless.

Winston Churchill

Live and let live.


Info_man

[philb]

Info-Man (or maybe it should be Miss info-man)  I think you ought to go back and read a few of the older posts before you make any snap judgements about where someone is or is not at politically.

[info_man]

Hello Phil,


Statement  by JB


"While I won't pretend to judge his latest escapade, I do know he's  capable of being pretty hard headed in many regards, he's very  conservative politically,  (almost qualifies for membership in the  KKK), in addition to being hard to get along with in general"
_____________________________________________________________________-

So what were you saying about me being miss informed?

I referring to the above statement and maybe you should go back and read his post, before you make miss informed comments..

Info_Man

[jb]

info_man,

You really don't want to get on my bad side.  In fact it's a terrible idea.

[Admin]

Politics and insults are ALWAYS a bad idea.

Let's get back on track.

TIA

- Dan

[info_man]

Qoute by JB to Info_Man

info_man,

You really don't want to get on my bad side.  In fact it's a terrible idea.

_________________________________________________________________


Now, that I have stopped laughing, so when someone disagrees with you, you comeback making threats. I old are you?

Info_Man

[Admin]

[user=686]info_man[/user] wrote:

Qoute by JB to Info_Man

info_man,

You really don't want to get on my bad side. In fact it's a terrible idea.

_________________________________________________________________


Now, that I have stopped laughing, so when someone disagrees with you, you comeback making threats. I old are you?

Info_Man

Info_Man

Stop now. No need to make baiting posts.

Thanks,

- Dan

[Oosik]

info_man,

You really don't want to get on my bad side. In fact it's a terrible idea.

Well Dan, this is the same crap you saw in the chat room the other night. Now he is threatening another member with his "wrath".

Seriously, I'm sure a few people are offended by JB's remarks. And I certainly don't appreciate having my TR become JB's opportunity to insult me and others.

Don't you want people to post TR's?

[Admin]

Well Dan, this is the same crap you saw in the chat room the other night. Now he is threatening another member with his "wrath".

Seriously, I'm sure a few people are offended by JB's remarks. And I certainly don't appreciate having my TR become JB's opportunity to insult me and others.

Don't you want people to post TR's?

Oosik - I've seen a lot of stuff - from a lot of guys - yourself included. Some of it just leaves me scratching my head.

Sure I want T/R's - and all the board members should be respectful of the time and effort someone puts into the preparation and posting of a T/R.

As I stated before, insults and political posts are a bad idea. I want to see them stopped.

I also want to see guys, like you and jb - who have 'histories' dating back to previous lives on other boards - take your differences and air them somewhere else, or in some other way (PM's or email) off the open board.

- Dan

[Photo Guy]

Oosik wrote about jb:

'Your entire intent was to position yourself above me in a public way. Why your ego is so fragile, I don't know. But thanks for your contributions to what was supposed to be a trip report. I told my story just so you could throw out an unprovoked attempt at an insult. I'm too new to this board to know if comparing me to Photo Guy is an insult, but knowing you he must have dissagreed with you and your ego couldn't handle it.'

[size="3"][color="darkred"]I don't know Oosik very well, but I can tell you some things about jb. He is apparently holding a grudge against me too, because I have a publicly stated low opinion of his 'clue bat'. He has made it known over and over again that he thinks the path I have taken is foolish. Okay. Fine. But then he makes the big mistake of making degrading remarks about my Larisa's occupation, my occupation, and the career choices of others here at RWD, like Bruno. It's hilarious that he rationalizes his trashing, by imagining that his classless tacky comments are somehow helpful to someone. Actually it's not very funny at all- you see it's actually damaging and hurtful to use words that associate someone with the KKK and to trash someone's gal by calling her a lowly 'shop girl'. And he likes to do these things right in the middle of a trip report, like the introduction of a swine virus.

For the record, Larisa and I did not decide to get married until AFTER about 7 months of phone calls, emails, and SMS's and our 7 day vacation in Kiev. If you think I am a fool for following this course, that's okay. I realize you don't have a close inside view of our relationship. [color="blue"]...But, the constant put-downs are immature, childish, and condescending[/color]. It goes against all RWD guidelines. Jb, how do think it makes yourself look when you associate someone with the KKK, or make fun of someone's occupation? It kills your credibility and makes you look as crude as you are. If and when Larisa and I are happily married, you'll still find a way to put me down. That's the kind of guy you are. -doug  [/color][/size]

[START2]

I'm reading this thread just now and was going to stay away but it tweaked my interest. It's true that jb is rather flambouyant and at times can be "in your face" but I personally have gleaned much information from his posts even though I did not use an agency to meet my wife. I do not believe he is malicious. He speaks his mind and that is offensive to some people especially those that seem blind. I believe that most of you here are not children but the way I have seen some of you act in your pursuit of a g/f , fiancee , wife, what you would never consider doing here in our own backyard in your pursuit, for some reason is perfectly ok in a foreign country. I feel there is desperation by your actions. I read comments such as "I don't have time or enough money to spend to get to know her better". I am baffled by that. It seems more than anything to me to be selfish.  Do you not understand that  you are involvong someone other than yourself? Even under the best circumstances marriage can be a crap shoot. Those of you that are impatient , how much patience will you have with your new bride. I have also read that when the relationship goes south all the blame seems to go to the woman. Does it occur to some of you didn't take the time to develop a relationship first?  Do you have a strong enough character to deal with all the situations that will arise when she does and beyond? Have you made the necessary changes in you life that were causes for past failed relationships? It's easy to say but personality is so difficult to alter. I have met and talked to a few people here that have actually been successful in their marriage after only a afew days or weeks together. Most recently I met Ken and Elena (Catz). While in their presence, it was delightful to realize and feel their love. Elena and my wife speak often and all I can express to Ken is that that woman loves you my brother. You are blessed....For those I don't know, it's easy to think you can be in that catagory but in your heart you know the odds are against you. For me, I'm over 50, my wife is 35. I'm not wealthy, and she had no reason to leave Ukr. We fell in love. We took time to explore our feelings. If we were going to be married, I wanted to know her better. I stopped to ask the important questions. I took time away from work and lived with her. I met her parents and friends. I saw her re-actions to certain situations and disagreements. She has become my best friend, and I know how she truly sees life. Yes, we continue to learn about one another but I was not about to start our marriage withoput knowing basic info. The more I learn, the more I love her. Even now, I would not have considered marriage without having kissed her, or only spending a few days in bed with her and lusting for her and thinking well, she sure suits me in bed. In marriage, thats only a third or less of your day. The other third or more is at work. So what do you do with rest?  That's where the rubber meets the road. Are you or have you become friends?  Those of you that are near 40 or over 40 and meet that hot 20 or 21 yr. old, what can you possibly have in common?  I know, I know, we all have our answers to that question, but all I ask is that you take a long honest look and and make a selfless decsion. It's not just your life, it's 2 lives. So, learn now not to be so offended by one mans opinion. He's trying to get you to open your closed eyes. I think you will hear more from others in the future. If you can't handle it here, what will you do when you hear the behind- the -back comments? For some of you read or ask Kenc's opinons or comments from friends. He has much to say. My hat is off to him. 

Oosik, if it sounds like I made references to you, yes, I did. Only because it's the most recent.  It seemed like you had it in your mind that this particular trip you were not coming home empty handed no matter what. I wish you no ill will and I know that you will need alot of luck. By your own admission you found a loved starved girl looking for any guy that showed some attention.  Photo G, all the letters and calls will never take the place as one on one time. I think you have your work cut out for you but is it remotely possible to take a few weeks and go visit Larissa once more before she come here? I wish you well too.

For me, I had been divorced since 1986. Raised 2 sons before cosidering marriage again. Met enough american women to know that there must be something better. Besides, all the good ones were taken. Visited some friends from Ukr. and was introduced to several UW. That's when I realized that eastern european women still had the qualites that I desired in a woman. So here I am today. In love, developing a marriage and the best damn realtionship this 50 year old man has ever known. Sorry guys, you'll half to settle for the second best Ukr. woman cuz I got the best!!:D Those searching in Ru. will also have to settle for second best. Catz claimed the first;)

 

[TigerPaws]

 There is little doubt that short meetings and courtships are not the ideal way to proceed when searching for a lady from the FSU, none-the-less it can and has been done successfully, age, cultural and language differences can be overcome but it is not an easy task.
 
 Some on this forum counsel against such meetings and marriages perhaps to strongly at times, what we need to remember is that while no one is served by painting a pretty picture the same can be said against coloring things too dark. There is no right or wrong way to go about searching, finding and marrying a lady from the FSU only what works for the person involved.  

[START2]

TP,

Excellent point and I agree that's there's no one way that works. good luck to all.

[Roger]

Hi all. I'm a newie to the Russian women dating scene, and after reading this interesting trip report to Chernigov, am wondering about a visit there myself. Apart from dating, is there anything to do there? I think there was a battle nearby in WW2. Are there any relics etc?

If anyone could point me in the right direction of a decent dating agency, and a place where I could rent an apartment I'd be very grateful.

I have been to The Ukraine - Sevastopol - once before, so really am a newbie. I am learning Russian, but am just a beginner.

[Oosik]

www.russian-women-connection.com.

I did the matchmaker service, and rented an apartment from the agency. The location was great. They have a wayyy-old monestary, bowling ally, clubs. They do have some monuments.

Lots of lonely girls, many have never met a foreigner before. I'd say do the matchmaker thing 2-2 1/2 months in advance, don't spend all your time writing, just go.

[Roger]

Cheers Oosik. I'll have a look at that site. Although I'd like to meet a decent girl and settle down, I'm in no particular rush (and am not adverse to meeting some indecent girls in the meantime!), and Chernigov sounds interesting. A bit off the beaten track too, which makes it more appealing to me.