new and lots to read

[ECOCKS]

I know some of you guys have been burned by agencies but I have to say it seems to be the same reason many folks get conned by investment advisors, gypsy home repairmen and pest control deals because they just don't believe it can happen to them. Not all agencies are out to maximize profit by making you spend as much as you can. I know that at no point did EM do anything more than remind me when my membership expired and send me monthly reminders that I could re-up my membership. Never a push to use translation, interpreter, gift or travel services.

So, it's not an absolute. Pick better agencies, do your homework (on sites like this one) and know the score so that you understand what is happening to you.

[MattyB4]

with regards to any insinuation i made regarding being able to spot any scam, if i did make it seem like that then it wasnt what i was tryying to say. those remarks were  more aimed at those individuals who were making comments about me being in danger on the streets.
no doubt that olga nearly had me fooled, but since yesterday i did some more "research" i was actually on chat here when the confirming blow was dealt.
As for anastasia's "methods" of handling my complaint, its not really of much interest to me. I flew to odessa, and THe driver Vladimir was there waiting as promised, he took me to kherson to my apartment, where Valeria was waiting for me as promised, the apartment was equipped as it was advertised, and valeria has gone above and beyond the cal of duty to ensure that my trip was at least tolerable.
As for the Agency that olga and elena were part of, based on everything that has happened, it is that agency that are the scammers in this situation, and i will be writing a lengthy email to anastasia about all that occured on my trip. I dont care about getting a refund because at the end of the day i still had a trip to ukraine, i still got to sample some local culture and cuisine, which is still plenty to justify a trip to a foreign place. if anastasia want to fine the agency that oga is a member of then thats fine by me.

people can say that i was naive, until they are blue in the face. But in my humble opinion, its far better to be optimistc with a healthy skepticism, then to just be paranoid about everything and everyone. If you go through life thinking everyone is out to get you, then you will have a very miserable existence on this planet, life is far too short to spend it all worrying that every good thing that happens to you is some conspiracy. If i was truly naive, i woud be leaving the ukraine considerably poorer then when i went, i spent what must be less then $50 in total on olga and elena in total this weekend, and i would hardly call that a lot of money, i spend less then that on a meal at my local pub.

Yes this was a learning experience for me, and i will know much better next time, but i dont think i will take the same lessons from this that many of you are convinced that i will.

I will cease all dealings with AI once i have complained and gotten a response. and move to a free site for a while.
Next time i travel to ukr i will have more knowledge of russian language
next time i will make sure that the lady i am meeting is 100% clear on everything, such as interpreter. THere will be no excuses next time for any "misunderstanding"

short and sweet answer to it is, olga may very well have been a scammer, but she got nothing from me.

[Jooky]

olga may very well have been a scammer, but she got nothing from me

I don't think you get it. The scam wasn't Olga and her friend getting a 50 dollar meal. That was simply Olga playing her obligatory part in the charade.

The real scam is Anastasia web and it's affiliates charging you ridiculous fees over the course of a year to chat with girls that aren't interested in you or aren't really chatting with you at all. You hit the spending threshold where you're allowed direct contact (right?). You also started complaining. Those are the signs for them and get you to come for a trip and use their services, so they collect as much cash from you before you walk away.

However much you spent over the past year, trust me, Olga and her interpeter 'friend' got their cut.

On the bright side, there are plenty of women in Ukraine that would want to meet a young guy like you. Ironically you picked probably the only method to not meet them.

I suggest you try meeting some women on a normal dating site. You might be surprised at how many young women speak English, have travelled, aren't desperate for a free meal or a ticket out of the country, but are still pleasantly surprised and interested when a foreign man pops into their online message box.

Good luck!

[Shadow]

I know some of you guys have been burned by agencies but I have to say it seems to be the same reason many folks get conned by investment advisors, gypsy home repairmen and pest control deals because they just don't believe it can happen to them. Not all agencies are out to maximize profit by making you spend as much as you can. I know that at no point did EM do anything more than remind me when my membership expired and send me monthly reminders that I could re-up my membership. Never a push to use translation, interpreter, gift or travel services.

So, it's not an absolute. Pick better agencies, do your homework (on sites like this one) and know the score so that you understand what is happening to you.

Matty was correct in one thing. Regardless of the agencies repuration, there was a chance the woman was interested in him. If she had been, the ageny would have gotten all credit instead of confirmng the bad reputation.

This is where the difference is made. Agencies will not have problems in providing a good apartment - after all renting it one week covers at least a month of 'local' rent.
Neither is there a problem in dirvers and interpreters, they are professional and paid per job.
Where the difference is made is how the agency looks after the genuine interest of the people involved.

[ECOCKS]

Actually, the agency made little money off of Matty since he talked to her for less than 2 weeks prior to the trip.

Sounds to me like this was more a pro-dater than an agency scam operation.

[Jooky]

Actually, the agency made little money off of Matty

Ed, he used Anastasia over the past year for correspondence, phone calls ($40 minimum),

hours

of video dates ($4.95 per minute) and finally apartment rentals, a driver and an interpreter, all for an unnecesarry trip to meet girl for lunch.

He mentioned being allowed to get direct contact information. Anastasia's policy (as far as I know) is to allow direct contact information only after a certain amount has been spent.

Anastasia made plenty. My guess is a few thousand. The agency got their cut. Olga played her minimum role in the charade and got her cut.

Matty, how much did you spend overall so far with Anastasia? Was there a minimum amount spent before you could get direct contact info? (If you don't want to say, that's understandable, but I think it helps people to understand how these scams really work).

[ECOCKS]

Maybe it's context then. He told me he only talked to this gal for 6 days before deciding to buy the tickets, then left to come here four days later. Didn't hear he had been paying them longer.

[Shadow]

I am new to this site, I have been using Anastasia for a long time to find a lady, and have spent more money then i care to remember.
.........
Perhaps, the fault of my correspondance failures lies solely with myself for perhaps being too subtle, i have in the past exchanged letters with a lady for over 6 months, after which i brought up the topic of meeting, and was told that she did not feel ready, (i should mention that we were writing at least 2 letters a week)

ECOCKS I think that if you read his opening post you would see the context very different.

[ECOCKS]

Whatever, I'm talking about this girl, that is the context of my response.

[Jooky]

Ed, for this particular girl alone, the agency collected their cut for an apartment rental, driver and an interpreter, possibly their typical date fee of seventy bucks. In addition, even if he chatted with Olga for one hour prior to the trip, he spent $300 bucks on her alone. Not bad for an hour's work in Kherson.

When it's slow season and the apartments are sitting empty, these girls are coached to bring more customers to fill them. Olga was the bait. It's a typical situation, business as usual.

I actually expected the situation to turn out differently. Even in these set up situations, it's still possible for a man to charm his fake date and things turn out alright. Matty, being young, in shape (my guess from him being ex-military) ,good looking (I think, from his avatar) and having plenty of time and money is a notch above the typical agency customer.

Then again, the girl is a 19 year old hottie...

[facetrock]

  I am sure she already has a boyfriend or two locally. 19 Year old hotties are not sitting at home waiting for prince charming to ride into town from some other country.
  Neither are women in their 20s or 30s for that matter too.

[Assamena]

  I am sure she already has a boyfriend or two locally. 19 Year old hotties are not sitting at home waiting for prince charming to ride into town from some other country.
  Neither are women in their 20s or 30s for that matter too.

Oh reallly?

Then it sounds that something wrong with me. Maybe I shoud go find boyfriend rather then wait for your coming 

[wiz]

Matty

Before you went to Kherson, via Odessa, many people here tried to help you to create a back up plan, which you didn't have at the time. I personally together with Misha gave you the personal details of Igor, so you can ask for help in the case that you were completely stranded and have nowhere to turn.  People like Jooky and most of the others here, spent a lot of time advising you on here and at the chat, what you can do under the circumstances.

It appears you did not then and also now take a blind bit of notice of what they say and I wonder why?

Do you think anybody of us has any financial interest in trying to help you?

Sorry Mate but all I can say is that you took the wrong road and learned a hard lesson in dating in the FSU. May I suggest you you sit back for a few minutes and digest correctly what other people are telling you. It will help you in the future.

In the chat you made a comment that you spent most of your compesnation for this trip on AI and the rest so it is obvious to me and the others that you have spent a lot of money and came back from Ukraine empty hands.

Reading your posts I agree with everybody's comments that you broke every rule in the book for dating in the FSU and there is no reason for you to try to justify yours or Olga's actions. We know where you both stand and the fact remains we all have tried to be helpfull to you without any ulterior motives on our part. Just take notice and acknowledge the advice given and learn from from it!

[ECOCKS]

Kudos to you Matty!

For someone who has only been on for a week, you've already had a heck of a ride! I found your frankness and search for knowledge refreshing and think you took what steps you could to protect yourself. You were accepting of the risks and didn't seem overly paranoid nor defensive as it came down to the wire and you embarked on your little adventure. Your blow-by-blow TR was almost usable as a textbook case for how guys get into something then decide what are acceptable losses and what to push back about with an individual and/or agency.

Hopefully, you're still feeling that your little adventure was worthwhile and educational and also hope you know that many of us are more than willing to help you along to your next step in the FSUW journey.

[Jooky]

When you think about it, it’s a pretty good racket.

Anastasia web supplies the website, they do the least work and collect the most cash. They admit they can’t fully control their affiliate agencies and technically they render the services paid for.

The affiliate agencies, in turn can’t control the ladies they list. They can’t guarantee that a girl really likes you or is just playing games. Again, technically they provide the webcams, the translations, the phone calls, the interpreter, the driver and the apartment.

The ladies are recruited, like strippers, to entertain by feigning interest in the male clients, with the chance that they might meet someone they actually like. Even those that are legitimately seeking a husband are expected to chat and meet with men that don’t interest them.

In the end, when a guy wastes his time and money, the finger is inevitably pointed at the girl. She’s the scammer. Reality is, she’s just doing her job. She gets the smallest cut, takes the brunt of the blame when things go wrong, and is expendable and replaceable. There are plenty of young girls that can use a few extra bucks and can be made hot by a professional photo shoot.

[Faux Pas]

When you think about it, it’s a pretty good racket.

Anastasia web supplies the website, they do the least work and collect the most cash. They admit they can’t fully control their affiliate agencies and technically they render the services paid for.

The affiliate agencies, in turn can’t control the ladies they list. They can’t guarantee that a girl really likes you or is just playing games. Again, technically they provide the webcams, the translations, the phone calls, the interpreter, the driver and the apartment.

The ladies are recruited, like strippers, to entertain by feigning interest in the male clients, with the chance that they might meet someone they actually like. Even those that are legitimately seeking a husband are expected to chat and meet with men that don’t interest them.

In the end, when a guy wastes his time and money, the finger is inevitably pointed at the girl. She’s the scammer. Reality is, she’s just doing her job. She gets the smallest cut, takes the brunt of the blame when things go wrong, and is expendable and replaceable. There are plenty of young girls that can use a few extra bucks and can be made hot by a professional photo shoot.

This doesn't absolve her part in the sham. Maybe she does get the smallest cut and is the most expendable but, it is her deception and dishonesty that cause the lonely hearts to feed the AIs of the world. Not to say that the offices and agencies are not just as guilty. One moment of honesty from these type women would (in my mind at least) absolve them. If a man knew the truth and went ahead anyway then he would need to bear the guilt pretty much as Matty needs to at this point in time.

I suspect many men would go ahead full steam just for the hope of spending sometime with a pretty young girl even if it is not the quality time they desire.

[Jooky]

This doesn't absolve her part in the sham.

True. My point is, she is only part of the masquerade and she's not the one who planned it. I suspect most of these girls don't think twice about what they're doing.

[GregfromGa]

With all that being said, Matty needs to publish her name somewhere indicating that she is just working and not serious about a relationship. That bit of info might just help some other poor bastage who thinks he's getting the real deal. Hang in there Matty. Hang around,ask questions, listen to the answers, do your homework and you'll be back in the saddle in no time.

[Jooky]

Greg, her name is already published in a list for women just working and not serious about a relationship. It's right here:

http://www.anastasiadate.com/

[GregfromGa]

Greg, her name is already published in a list for women just working and not serious about a relationship. It's right here:

http://www.anastasiadate.com/

So let me get this straight, basically any and every woman in this agency is a scammer?   I dont ever recall hearing anything good about this agency but I wouldve thought that there might be a few serious girls that were registered. I guess not. I have absolutely no reason to doubt you on this. I've been out of the loop for a while. I never really did the agency thing at all. The first girl I went to see used to go to the agency to write me on the net. It was a small agency in Kharkov that is now closed. It was managed by an honest woman. That's probably the reason it is no longer open.

[myrddin]

So let me get this straight, basically any and every woman in this agency is a scammer?   I dont ever recall hearing anything good about this agency but I wouldve thought that there might be a few serious girls that were registered. I guess not. I have absolutely no reason to doubt you on this. I've been out of the loop for a while.

I'm not debating any warnings about AI, I have a half-finished profile from 2 years ago that gets a dozen letters a week.  But I know of a handful of people who claim to be married after first meeting on anastasiadate.  I have not reason to doubt them, and I can't verify it but have no idea why they would lie.

But I'm guessing the house edge is over 95% scam, and look what Vegas can do with a 3-5% house edge!

[Jooky]

Naw, it was a tongue in cheek comment, but maybe not far from the truth.

Here's a bit more insight from a girl's side of things. A girl is recruited to join the agency. She's recruited for her looks, not her serious intentions. She's offered a free model photo shoot and asked to drop into the agency from time to time and chat with foreigners.

What does she get? Some cool photos, some free food and drink, a few bucks, a chance to meet some guys and the fun of exchanging stories about all the weirdos that come to visit. She doesn't have to be dead serious about marriage or moving out of Ukraine and she's definitely not obligated to any guy who comes along and wants to meet. If a cool guy does come along and they click, I'm sure any woman is open to take it to the next level.

Some women aren't recruited. As it was noted in another thread, look at the success stories. It's not the 19 year old front page hotties that are getting hitched. Normal serious women do join these agencies, but they're not the main draw. Often they are presented as consolation prizes when a guy is suckered to make the trip and ends up on one dud date. I'm sure Matty would have been offered a few consolation girls if his trip had been for 2 weeks, not just 2 days.

So a girl goes in for a web cam chat, or runs one from home. She sits at the computer and is listed as Online (and not occupied). All communication is passed through the translators. The translators handle whatever guys want to drop in and chat, so while a bunch of guys are drooling over the same girl, she's only corresponding with one of them. The translators are dealing with the rest.

If the agency gets a guy to visit, the girl is supposed to meet with him and that's it. If she likes him, fine. If she doesn't, no sweat.

Did this girl deliberately lead Matty on and come down for a wasted trip? I don't know, but I doubt it. It's the translators that do that. I'm sure she was aware of Matty, and when asked if she wanted to meet him she agreed. Why not? She's got nothing to lose and at least she gets free sushi for her and her friend.

He should have known she wasn't all that interested when she didn't show up for her phone chat. In fact, that might have been the first time she was really aware that he was planning to come down for the weekend.

So, I don't see the purpose of blacklisting the girl. She's playing along with the system, but it's the agency that's advertising her as a serious girl for marriage. Or are they, really?

[JR]

Oh reallly?

Then it sounds that something wrong with me. Maybe I shoud go find boyfriend rather then wait for your coming 

Face will never come for you...me, now that's another matter

[JR]

Welcome Matt,

I think your explanations for continuing to us AI was pretty valid and reasonable. Yes they have a bad rep but there are sincere ladies too.

You did an excellent job of pointing out where your trip went wrong. It is in that you can't tell when a woman is in to you or not. Before you went Olga told you that you two would spend the entire time together. Then she dumps you after a couple hours and leaves you alone on Saturday night. Do you think she went home, sat in front of the TV and thought about you? That alone is all the evidence you need.

Next time don't throw good time after bad. Actions speak louder than words. She didn't spend time with you. Jookey nailed it with his example of hospitality.

It was just a lesson. Your next trip will be fruitful, I can sense that. And you're right not to live a life of paranoia, not worth it.

Best to you!

[MattyB4]

lots of new posts and i kind of skim read a bit. I will go back and read them fully but i have to do it a bit at a time as i am bloody tired.

The general concensus of opinion amongst the ukrainian people who work for other agencies, is that AI have a few genuine girls, so that they can still get legitimate "Success stories"
many many many many people claim to "know" the inner workings of AI, but from what i have seen and heard it is mostly speculation. i am inclined to believe that AI dont arrange scams themselves, but it is more a case that they know what happens but dont care as long as the money keeps rolling in. They pay the agencies a small amount for any girl that chats or writes to a guy, whether they are genuine or not, so all these little "Agencies" pop up with all these beautiful girls looking for love. A huge number of the girls who claim to have dayjobs, will be online all night, on cam and at their agency. in fact they seem to enjoy mocking the people they chat to, with other people on the office, as i have watched one girl quite clearly reading something, relaying it to her off camera friend, and having a good "point and laugh" moment about it.

i am willing to bet that all the agencies on AI's scam list are just agencies who refused to sign up with them.

the only time AI care about a scam (from what i have seen and heard) is when the girl in question does such a poor job of it, that the guy figures it out and complains, and then (as someone mentioned before) an email goes to the agency telling them they have been busted, and an email goes to the guy full of useless platitudes like "the lady was genuine and must have just not liked you as much face to face"
i have yet to get a reply from AI regarding my issues, but i sent them another one when i got home.

For those who were discussing my total  expenditure on AI, yes it is a lot. Ed was right about this particular girl not having earned much, she barely got a few hours chat and that was it

The biggest reason for my thinking that AI arent "directly" involved in this scam, is that they gave me an interpreter as promised, who was not only from a totally different agency, but very helpful in spotting things that i couldnt see, because i couldnt speak russian. And unless they have dealt with complete idiots in the past, who would pay for 2 terps, that doesnt add up for me.  I do, as i already said, think that they are well aware of these goings on and dont care as long as the agency doesnt get caught.

here is my latest email to AI:

I appreciate your perspective in my current issue, and please do not mis understand my remark about not getting in touch with me soon enough, I have read many many reports about some of the girls that anastasia has on their books being scammers, and what i wanted whilst i was in Kherson, was perhaps a telephone call to let me know that this issue was being investigated, and perhaps some advice regarding the issue.
THe amount of money that i seemingly wasted talking to Olga, and other girls in that particular agency is very high, and it is pretty obvious, without doing much investigation that they arent there to meet me for romance at all and that it is just a business.
I do not wish to speculate about how much anastasia knows about such things going on, as i still want to believe that should i continue my use of the service i will eventually find a woman who is genuinely looking for a man.
However given that when i spoke to Veronica ID: 1151969 in an attempt to find out about this "interpreter rule" i know that she was at the agency when i spoke to her, and as soon as i mentioned my situation and that i was trying to find out about it, she alerted other people in that office and at least two of them stood watching the conversation, thinking i hadnt seen them on camera when they got a little too close.
I do not wish for a refund for the services i paid for during my trip, i.e apartment, driver and interpreter, as that was all satisfactory. However, given the amount of money that i spent chatting to Olga, and other women from these agencies that are obviously just making money out of it, i think that it only fair i should be reimbursed the money talking to these scammers. If you wish i will provide you with a list of the girls names and ID's. and a longer list of reasons why i am certain that they are making a proffesion out of this international dating
but first i will make sure that you are fully clear on everything that happened with olga

Before i left i told her that i had arranged an interpreter, driver and apartment, after which she said that she too had an interpreter who was a close friend, and she trusted
I said that i didnt want to pay for another interpreter as i had already paid anastasia for one.
The next thing she tells me is that it is a rule at her agency, that all girls must be accompanied by an interpreter of her own agency
she also called Valeria, my interpreter and told her the same story.
I said that if that were the case, then i would contact anastasia to check this out, and if necessary make arrangements to have my payment moved to the new interpreter
once again her story changed, and she said that she would prefer to have this other interpreter with her as she was a close friend and she would feel more comfortable with her there
i replied that since i already paid for an interpreter, i would keep the one i had, but she was welcome to bring her friend along, as a friend and not an interpreter, as i had no intenton of paying for something i didnt need. and that if this other interpreter was really a friend, she would be happy to do it as a friendly favour

once we were at our first meeting, the issue was still not resolved and myself and valeria found ourselves in a position where we had to meet a comprimise and agree to hire the other interpreter on the second meeting, just to be sure that there would even be a second meeting at all.

Now i have read a lot of blogs of people who have met girls in the ukraine that turned out to be scammers and im not just talking about anastasia, but other agencies too.
There are certain things that are common in almost all those cases, including mine. Its almost as if there is a script for scamming "stupid rich western men"
the girl will,

Suggest meeting in a sushi bar, mention something that is happening at home that may require them to leave abruptly and possibly take up the rest of their time of your visit, mention that they would like to go shopping, have an "interpreter friend", mention on numerous occasions how much they wished they had a lap top computer so that they could chat in private instead of on the family computer.

There are also many many blogs and also i have spoken to women on forums regarding "normal" behaviour that a man should expect

Ukrainian hospitality, The lady knows you have travelled a long way to see her and makes herself available to you for the duration of your trip, or at least the majority of it.
Offering to meet in a cheap but nice place so as not to give the wrong impression
A real friend wont expect to be paid for helping a friend meet someone she really likes
A girl may mention her desire to speak to you more privately, but most defiinately wont hint at you buying her something so expensive at such an early stage in the "relationship"

You have to acknowledge the facts in this case, Olga's behavious was more or less carbon copy of the scam reports everywhere, the fact that she barely had any time for me, once she realised i wasnt going to pay for a second interpreter, and didnt like the idea of shopping because i was there for such a short time and wanted to just spend time talking, and getting to know each other. She promised me before i left the UK that she would spend the whole weekend with me apart from maybe a couple of hours on saturday when she would have to help her mother, and that promise remained until i made it clear that i wouldnt pay for her "friend" to be there.
And then once i made a fuss about it, to anastasia and the girl i mentioned before, suddenly she changed her tune and started trying to talk her way out of it, saying that she didnt realise i was worried, and that she had no idea about anyone ever being scammed like that before. She also finally confessed that the girl she wanted to be my interpreter wasnt her close friend, and that she had only known her for 2 months. And that she couldnt help spending so little time with me during my trip as her mother really needed her help. and then told me she had been called by another girl from her agency saying i was trying to line up other dates.

This is not the sort of behaviour that I (or anyone else) would expect from someone who was genuinely interested in meeting someone, and had invited them to come and meet. Every single ukrainian and russian lady i have spoken to agrees, that if someone had come to them for any length of time, solely for the purpose of meeting them, that they would make sure that they had time for that person, even if the lady decided she didnt like the man romantically, she would feel duty bound to at least make the effort to keep the man comfortable, and entertained.

the list of girls and reasons of my suspicion not including olga who you are well aware of my issues with

Veronica 1151969 : not including the situation that occured during my last chat with her about the interpreter, she is always online in the late hours, and always on camera, at the agency, Always talking to numerous men simultaneously, and always having "camera trouble" at convenient times, clearly tries to prolongue a conversation, thus costing the man more money

Inna 1153111: as above, always online throughout the night at her agency, when asked why she is online so much replies with "i was waiting you" seems far too keen to meet someone she has literally just started chatting to.

Lyudmila 1123888 always online all night which for someone who claims to be a working nurse that works a lot of hours, seems to find a lot of time to be at her agency. Clearly juggling numerous men in chat at the same time, but refuses to admit it, insists that she have her own interpreter, seems to be far more interested in chatting to other people in the agency office then actually talking to the people she is supposed to be Madly interested in and desperately hoping to meet.

Nataliya 1141057: always online through the night, claiming to be "waiting you", clearly juggling several conversations at once. Randomly doing sexy dances or erotic suggestive movements at the camera, when you are talking about nothing sexual whatsoever, showing she is clearly doing it for someone else and then saying "you make me hot, want you now" as an excuse. Always at the agency and letting other people in the room see her "private" conversations, and clearly having a good laugh with her agency friends at what is being said.

I am sure that you could think of many "reasonable explanations" for these girls behaviour, and to be honest, i have ceased communication with them and couldnt care less whether you investigate them or not, apart from the fact that they have cost me so much money in the past.

I have made a lot of useful contacts in Kherson recently, from web sites, and friends recommending me to talk to people, and there are many ways that this issue can be investigated.

These girls are all listed as "Confirmed profiles" which means that anastasia has garaunteed they are genuine. It is therefore anastasias responsability to return that money to me, and i mean money not "store credit"

Until i started to plan my trip to the ukraine, i had no complaints about your service, and would like to think that this issue will be dealt with in a way in which i will not feel the need to push with any further action or investigations of my own.

i know its long and probably wont accomplish anything, but im interested to see what comes out of it