Guys here under 35

[Boethius]

Beo, you followed a path that  western women in general would find quite weird.  The difference here is you are not pointing at other Western women who choose to look elsewhere and label them as mostly weirdo's, SJ has.

I didn't choose my path.  It was chosen for me.  Furthermore, I didn't choose to look elsewhere.  I happened to be abroad and met someone.  I think that is actually fairly common.  My sister met her husband while working in another city.  Her best friend met her English husband while studying in London.  (The English husband works in my building.  One day, riding the elevator together, he told me they would be visiting a classmate who met and married a wealthy Italian, and they'd be staying at her villa.)  I have another girlfriend who met her American husband when she was studying on the East Coast, another who met her Danish husband while on vacation, and moved to Denmark, and yet another, after several engagements, who met an Austrian while at a medical research conference in Montreal (her hometown, though she worked as a medical researcher at Yale), and moved to Vienna with him.  All of these marriages occurred before the first internet dating site was even dreamed of (mine, a decade before), and those are just the marriages I can think of, off the top of my head, in my circle of friends.  


 

[Jumper]

SJ-
I'd like you to consider something of equal possibilty..
. of the men here that have met more than a few RW looking west,
what percent of those RW did they notice might be hiding behind some social problems of their own?
 oft times they are indeed looking for  a reason, no sane RM will date them.

Most? no. but more than a few.
just like"most" men on the plane are not the social misfits you portray ,
 in my experience.

as far as men posting they are *finished with western women* on some forum,
i think a good deal of that can be taken with  a grain of salt

I think MOST  lack the courage of their convictions sir
 

[Gator]

Men looking east are mostly weirdos,(not broadening their nets ,as a rule of "most")
women looking east ,or west, are mostly simply  broadening  their nets
 
got it

the weirdness is simply based on gender
 
 

This inconsistency proves that Boethius is indeed a woman.   Need an smiley for "duck."

[Boethius]

I never said most men are weirdos.

[Jumper]

Beo-
yes you were chained and shackled into dating a Ukrainian man
You are pulling the same evasion SJ did,
 you choose your path.So did his wife ,so did your husband.
At some point in the interaction ,you choose to pursue a relationship with someone not from your own country and all he hardships that would ,.likely entail.

I "get" the point of initial motivating factors being different!!
or that you can paint those motivations being 'weird" possibly?
 (although i'd  beg to differ  at their very root ,the fundamentals are the same)

regardless  it doesn't change the actual path  trodden ,or the way many people in general might view it. (different or weird)

 My first wife was Irish, I did not set out to marry an Irish lass,that is for dang sure.
We just met.Sound familiar?
That did not make immigration here for her,leaving her family and friends,
or how people viewed my relationship any differently?
I had plenty of local women interested, why marry her? How well could i know her? all the complications ?
I choose that path ,it was not  choosen for me.She choose it as well.
You think no one thought about,or questioned  my or her  actions in marrying  a foreigner?
In her case leaving all she'd known, in my case  immigration.. all kinds of added expenses..
all with plenty of perfectly good girls here .. imagine.

The exact same  pablum spilled in this thread? as reasons *why* men looking are weird, ..
(they have plenty of choices at home remember? but of course the RW don't amazingly)

anyway my past situation  would be viewed as totally acceptable to this group.. or SJ, as we simply *met*  right?  i wasn't looking! in fact i din't notice her at all!!  she got my number from a friend ,of a friend.
Actively pursued me , and I found her calling me  rather weird, frankly, but then we clicked *somehow*.

but do you  see some huge difference  in the big final picture,  to having  actively looked in Ireland?
I don't.

looking exclusively in Ireland? perhaps !!
but that seems the question here..
how many actually exclude all else?

Do you really believe most men exclude all others from a few posts here?
do most men here even post that mentality? a few examples does not support "most"?

The posts that are in that vein ,are they mostly from men likely jaded by recent poor experiences ,and the whole reason they may have found the forum ?
do you think they will always feel that way, or act on such words completely ?
define poor methodology ?
 
The *most* is the sticking point
and i see nothing to support it either in forum posts overall, or in the people i have met in this venture.

I'm not saying there arn't some social misfits ,or odd theories by men in this venture.It seems a natural situation that more might be involved.

but how many? 51%?
is that most?

funny stuff.

[Boethius]

Actually, I do see a difference.

yes you were chained and shackled into dating a Ukrainian man

We never really dated.  But what I meant was, I believe in a higher power, and that God puts us together for a reason.  

At some point in the interaction ,you choose to pursue a relationship with someone not from your own country and all he hardships that would ,.likely entail

The first day we met, I knew we would marry.  It was not an intellectual knowledge, or a silly schoolgirl fantasy, just something deep in me knew.  I even knew how long we would be separated, and I proved correct on that.  And remember, this was at a time when foreigners, particularly females, just did.not.marry. Soviets.  Lots of obstacles were put in our way to discourage our marriage.  But, that, and our long forced separation were my only hardships.  I never much cared what anyone thought.

[Misha]

Men looking east are mostly weirdos,(not broadening their nets ,as a rule of "most") women looking east ,or west, are mostly simply  broadening  their nets
 
got it

the weirdness is simply based on gender

LOL! No, when the right people do it, their intentions are pure and their actions are noble and romantic, demonstrating their enlightenment. The rest who do it are the knuckle-dragging misfits
 

[Boethius]

I don't think SJ ever said that.  And I certainly didn't.

[HazyKnight]

Although my comment was a little tongue-in-cheek I have to say that there is at least a major dollop of truth in there (IMO). Leaving some exceptions aside for a moment, I think that if a guy under 35 needs to go abroad to get laid (or find love), there's probably something up somewhere.

As for the screwed up and/or totally mental older guys, yeah, well, duh but this thread is about under 35's.

I'm just going to cut-to-the-chase here and say that you must be good at stirring up controversy. You already recognized that this thread was intended for men under 35 (in your second post). Your first post was distinctly lacking humor, and was meant to cause drama. It doesn't matter how someone else should interpret what you type. You can't control their interpretations. Going back and saying that it was "tongue-in-cheek" is just you trying to justify and cover-up your own lack of self-confidence. Go away, and let the adults have the dialogues of education, and conversation. As for your "truth" there is no truth. There is only what is going to happen, and what did happen, no matter what the circumstances that lead to it. To try and draw a pattern from this is... see below.

FACT:
The odds are (at least according to David Hume), there are many many more people on this planet than you (SJ) can possible account for. Given that the odds also dictate this extremely complex and diverse population, any and all of your general and broad reaching statements are null; due to the fact that even if one of these possible scenarios were to occur, your statements would be moot.

[Ade]

I'm just going to cut-to-the-chase here and say that you must be good at stirring up controversy. You already recognized that this thread was intended for men under 35 (in your second post). Your first post was distinctly lacking humor, and was meant to cause drama. It doesn't matter how someone else should interpret what you type. You can't control their interpretations. Going back and saying that it was "tongue-in-cheek" is just you trying to justify and cover-up your own lack of self-confidence. Go away, and let the adults have the dialogues of education, and conversation. As for your "truth" there is no truth. There is only what is going to happen, and what did happen, no matter what the circumstances that lead to it. To try and draw a pattern from this is... see below.

FACT:
The odds are (at least according to David Hume), there are many many more people on this planet than you (SJ) can possible account for. Given that the odds also dictate this extremely complex and diverse population, any and all of your general and broad reaching statements are null; due to the fact that even if one of these possible scenarios were to occur, your statements would be moot.

I guess that means I hurt your feelings?

[HazyKnight]

I guess that means I hurt your feelings?

If I'm responding again, it means you didn't read the post correctly or you didn't understand. Can you not follow directions?

[Ade]

If I'm responding again, it means you didn't read the post correctly or you didn't understand. Can you not follow directions?

I guess you just proved my point regarding weirdness.

[dbneeley]

I guess you just proved my point regarding weirdness.

No, I think it is far more a statement of your own trollness.

David

[Ade]

No, I think it is far more a statement of your own trollness.

David

And on another topic; that's probably the least condescending post I've seen you make.

[dbneeley]

And on another topic; that's probably the least condescending post I've seen you make.

Regarding this thread, I can see how you might think that--considering how inane your flamebaiting original post was and the large amount of back-pedaling you've been doing to retreat from it since.

To post a supposedly "tongue in cheek" message that insulted large numbers of people and was not based upon rationality is the essence of being a troll.

It's quite true, though, that at times my patience in suffering fools gladly wears somewhat thin.

David

[Ade]

Regarding this thread, I can see how you might think that--considering how inane your flamebaiting original post was and the large amount of back-pedaling you've been doing to retreat from it since.

To post a supposedly "tongue in cheek" message that insulted large numbers of people and was not based upon rationality is the essence of being a troll.

It's quite true, though, that at times my patience in suffering fools gladly wears somewhat thin.

David

I guess our definitions of "fool" differ greatly as does our opinion on what constitutes a big enough sample to make generalisations.

And if you think your condescending tone is only limited to this thread, I'd say you need to go and reread your other posts to refresh that ageing memory of yours.

I'll admit to trolling, but only slightly though. 

[I/O]

I'll admit to trolling

But as a normal (non weird), socially well adjusted, with plenty or marriage prospects (one would assume other trolls), troll?

As has bee eluded to, "odd" women exist also. On one particular 6 month trip, I met more than few people. Among those were some "screwballs". Of the women folk, there were two absolute "duds". One Russian, one American.

[Billgreen54]

Interesting.....

Fact.  Eighty percent of the men who actually go and visit a woman in an FSU country are odd at best.

Frankly speaking since living in Ukraine for three years now.  I feel more sorry for the ladies than I do for the men when it comes to strangeness and lying etc. etc.

That said, if a FSU woman is normal, attractive and mentally stable, she shouldn't have any problem finding Mr. Right in her own country.

[GQBlues]

Interesting.....

Fact.  Eighty percent of the men who actually go and visit a woman in an FSU country are odd at best.

Frankly speaking since living in Ukraine for three years now.  I feel more sorry for the ladies than I do for the men when it comes to strangeness and lying etc. etc.

That said, if a FSU woman is normal, attractive and mentally stable, she shouldn't have any problem finding Mr. Right in her own country.

WOW! That's an eye-opener coming from a commercial member! LOL.

I actually like the bluntness. If I was still single and happen to search in FSU, I'd definitely hire you.

[Vinnvinny]

Interesting.....

Fact.  Eighty percent of the men who actually go and visit a woman in an FSU country are odd at best.

Frankly speaking since living in Ukraine for three years now.  I feel more sorry for the ladies than I do for the men when it comes to strangeness and lying etc. etc.

If fairness to other WM Bill then most with any nous tend to steer clear of places like Nikolaev, so your recent experiences are understandable but somewhat unbalanced.

That said, if a FSU woman is normal, attractive and mentally stable, she shouldn't have any problem finding Mr. Right in her own country.

I am really surprised you think that. I recently spent sometime in the company of a Ukrainian lady who seemed to fit your description and her husband was one of the biggest a**holes I have had ever had the pleasure of meeting. I have seen and heard similar on many occasions in the past in Ukraine and even in Nikolaev one young lady told me that most decent looking men with a few $’s in their pocket is likely to be already married and have several mistresses on the go. One thing that I have learnt on my travels is that the agency ‘hype’ regarding the lack of good quality FSUM is actually true.

[Boethius]

The hype about FSUM is not true.  You can hear the same complaints from young women in the West about men.  It's all about perception.

I think, at least in Ukraine, there is a shortage of men over forty, mainly because alcohol starts taking its toll. 

[dbneeley]

The hype about FSUM is not true.  You can hear the same complaints from young women in the West about men.  It's all about perception.

I think, at least in Ukraine, there is a shortage of men over forty, mainly because alcohol starts taking its toll. 

Last time I looked, interestingly enough, the per capita consumption of alcohol in both Russia and Ukraine were below that of the UK, for example--and far below either Luxemburg (number 1) and Ireland (number 2).

From what I have seen, a strong contributing factor to male mortality rates is the rather abysmal safety records in many industries which lead to death on the job.

An alcohol issue, I believe, is the huge availability of impure and rather dangerous but extremely cheap vodka.

David

[Boethius]

The per capita consumption, though, doesn't include samogon.  I don't know what the situation is in Russia, but in Central Ukraine, lots of people drink samogon.  That is why the artificially created "sugar shortage" a few years back was such a crisis there.

I also suspect UK women drink more than do FSUW.

[55North]

I also suspect UK women drink more than do FSUW.

Sadly yes, by a massive multiple I expect.  Ironically, they drink mostly vodka cut with fruit juice or Red Bull when I last 'observed' matters close-up a few years ago.  Maybe they're drinking neat gin already, but I guess that comes later in life.
 
The future health crisis is already predicted by the health authorities.

[Misha]

The per capita consumption, though, doesn't include samogon.

Yes, and it also does not include ethanol produced for purposes other than drinking but is nonetheless drunk and of course the very popular cologne Troynoy that was the drink of choice for a certain class of alcoholics...