Ukraine Changes Leadership..Who Will It Be?

[tfcrew]

Timoshenko is battling to overcome a 10 point deficit from the first round to replace outgoing President Viktor Yushchenko. A close result may lead to further political unrest and market declines in a country that has been in limbo for much of the past five years because of bickering among its leaders.

Yanukovych will probably win, prompting Timoshenko to make good on yesterday’s threat to mobilize her supporters, Fyodor Bagnenko, director of equity sales at Dragon Capital, said.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-06/ukraine-election-campaign-ends-with-contrasting-stages-style.html

 

[Kuna]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-06/ukraine-election-campaign-ends-with-contrasting-stages-style.html

A close result may lead to further political unrest and market declines in a country that has been in limbo for much of the past five years because of bickering among its leaders.

A close result will lead to political unrest?  A decisive result will lead to political unrest...  it's the way it goes...


In this case I hope Yanukovich wins as at least it's stop the denigration of the relationship with Russia.  I know a lot of members here (and a lot of people in the west) want Ukraine to move closer to the west but it's history is with Russia (or Russia's history is with Ukraine) and to separate those two countries is to separate two twins.

Yushenko's obsession with holodomir etc ended up not being as damaging as he hoped.  The people rejected him and now we can only hope the leader leader, who ever it is, looks to the future rather than trying to reinvent the past.



What Ukraine ultimately needs though is new leadership...  the current crop of (genuine) contenders can't fix the problems.

[Boethius]

it's history is with Russia (or Russia's history is with Ukraine) and to separate those two countries is to separate two twins.

That is not entirely accurate.  Left Bank Ukraine has a history intertwined with Russia, but even that was interrupted by more than a century of the independent Cossack Hetmanate.

Right Bank Ukraine was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, some came under Ottoman rule, and parts, eventually, after the Second Partition of Poland, under Tsarist rule.  Further, there are many parts of Ukraine, such as those parts that were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, that were never under Russian rule.

Yushchenko's relations with Russia were markedly improved over the past 18 months, as were Tymoshenko's.  But, all of these leaders are former mid level commies who are more interested in lining their own pockets than helping a nation recover.  Throughout Yushchenko's term as president (and before), Russia remained Ukraine's largest trading partner.

Yanukovich will win the election. 

[ECOCKS]

It's a shame. Such potential and such a plague of poor leadership.

[Shadow]

My hunch is that Tymochenko will win. Regarding political unrest I doubt that the number of people that went to the strets 4 years ago will appear again.
People in Ukraine are just too jaded to care.

Yanukovich is not really remembered for his pro-Russian politics while he was Prime Minister, his standpoint is mainly rhetoric.
Tymochenko has already shown to be mainly interested in her own affairs.

Remains one question.... will ECOCKS keep his word of withdrawing all investments in Ukraine if Yanukovich wins ?

[Kuna]

That is not entirely accurate.  Left Bank Ukraine has a history intertwined with Russia, but even that was interrupted by more than a century of the independent Cossack Hetmanate.

Right Bank Ukraine was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, some came under Ottoman rule, and parts, eventually, after the Second Partition of Poland, under Tsarist rule.  Further, there are many parts of Ukraine, such as those parts that were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, that were never under Russian rule.

Yushchenko's relations with Russia were markedly improved over the past 18 months, as were Tymoshenko's.  But, all of these leaders are former mid level commies who are more interested in lining their own pockets than helping a nation recover.  Throughout Yushchenko's term as president (and before), Russia remained Ukraine's largest trading partner.

Yanukovich will win the election. 

Are you still stalking me to create new arguments?

Go read the following two links and then tell me Russian and Ukrainian history is not intertwined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Russia

[tfcrew]

Meanwhile things get really ugly

Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko's presidential campaign chief has accused her rival's supporters of killing a member of her campaign staff in the early hours of Sunday, according to Ukrainian media.

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=112891

[Shadow]

Meanwhile things get really ugly

Though some protests are less ugly...

[JR]

"Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss."

[tfcrew]

Hey, the gal in the white jacket sure looks hot..........

[Boethius]

I suggest, Kuna, that rather than looking at such authoritative sources as wikipedia, you pick up a book.

There are large parts of Western Ukraine that were never part of the Russian Empire, but rather, as I posted, were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or even Romania, such as most of what was formerly known as Galicia, and Western Bessarabia, which were not under Russian rule.

[Shadow]

I suggest, Kuna, that rather than looking at such authoritative sources as wikipedia, you pick up a book.

There are large parts of Western Ukraine that were never part of the Russian Empire, but rather, as I posted, were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or even Romania, such as most of what was formerly known as Galicia, and Western Bessarabia, which were not under Russian rule.

were those parts added to Ukraine after 1917 or after 1990 ? 

[Boethius]

Not sure what you're trying to say, Shadow.

[Shadow]

Not sure what you're trying to say, Shadow.

Just interested in what the definition of 'never under Russian rule' is. 

[rwoo1983]

[Boethius]

Just interested in what the definition of 'never under Russian rule' is. 

Ah, okay.  I do not consider the Soviets "Russians".  There definitely were policies of Russification in the USSR, but Russians suffered under them just as much as everyone else.

[Shadow]

Ah, okay.  I do not consider the Soviets "Russians".  There definitely were policies of Russification in the USSR, but Russians suffered under them just as much as everyone else.

I guess that I agree with you, but this clarification was needed for a lot of people from the US and Australia, who consider the Soviets and Great-Russia one and the same thing.

[tfcrew]

Viktor Yanukovych, a 59 year-old former convict, said his win opened a new page in Ukraine’s history, promising to unite a country which is deeply split between the Ukrainian-speaking west and the Russian-speaking east.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/7184349/Ukraine-election-Viktor-Yanukovych-claims-victory.html
Also....
http://rt.com/Top_News/2008-10-20/Ukraine_postpones_apocalyptic_election.html?gclid=CP-IwsD14Z8CFRqenAodb0SaHA

[Shadow]

With 95% of the votes counted, Yanukovich is officially declared the winner.
Let the games begin.....

[kievstar]

This is very good news if true.  Hopefully the Russian language will come back and they can get rid of the Ukraine language.  And hopefully Tymo goes to jail or gets booted from the country.

I also hope they put visa rules back in place unless other countries allow Ukraine citizens just as easy into their country.

[Boethius]

kiev, Russian was imposed on most of Ukraine during Soviet times.  Much of Eastern Ukraine, from Kharkhiv east, was Russified, particularly in the 1960's, with ethnic Russians being settled in the region with the intent to Russify the country.  This did not happen only in Ukraine, but in all the Soviet republics.

Your experience is in cities.  Go out to Ukrainian villages, and virtually no one speaks Russian fluently.  That is why "surzhik" exists. 

[brave girl]

I also hope they put visa rules back in place unless other countries allow Ukraine citizens just as easy into their country.

Shallow pockets will not like!!   brave girl 

[kievstar]

Boethius, I do not care about the past.  I want the Ukraine language to go away.  I like the Russian language.  But I do know many people in the villages who prefer Russian language.  Most of my wifes family lives in villages more than one hour by car to city center. But your right most of my wifes family was born in Russia and not Ukraine.

I have always been very pro Russia even when watching the movies in late 1970 and early 1980's in America.  Not a big fan of Ukraine culture or language. 

[Boethius]

Ukrainian is not going to "go away", kiev, and no offense, but that's as ignorant to say, and I'd suggest you know little of the Ukrainian language or culture.   You also then know little of Russian culture, which is quite intertwined with Ukrainian culture.

Here is a starting point for you -

http://openlibrary.org/b/OL2647076M/Ukrainian_impact_on_Russian_culture_1750-1850

[kievstar]

Also Polish culture is very connected with Ukraine culture.  Also, African and Vietnamese since many citizens are moving to Ukraine from those two countries.

Culture changes.  Not everybody has to like your Ukraine culture.  Also within culture many subsets.  I do not like the Ukraine language and will see about the use of the Ukraine language when it comes to politics and business and what is taught in schools.