The WOVO vs WMVM debate

[Faux Pas]

I have always advocated two things, WMVM and do your own thing With that said I am about to embark on a VO, go figure...

WOVOs carrry another negative side to them that don't get much discussion. That being the fact that WOVO's require a fairly strong sense of self worth on the man's part. The urge to settle for Mrs. Not Right or Not Quite Right will be high in order to protect your investment of money, time, vacation. You have to be willing to walk away in the first few minutes or anytime there after from all the months of letter writing, phone calls, flowers, hopes, expectations and day dreaming of Happily Everafter.

IMO if one enters this concern on the trip or the meeting they've already defeated themselves. The expense is the expense and nothing more and has nothing to do with the woman. Keep those separate. One should consider it the very same as meeting a women in their own country. It is not an investment, it is an expense. To think in the terms of investment isn't really conducive to a relationship is it?

[Gylden]

"You have to be willing to walk away in the first few minutes or anytime there after"

I can't imagine anyone who is reasonable and who has taken the time and energy to get to know someone (even if it is ONLY through e-mail, sms, chat, video chat, letter writting, etc), making such an error in judgement which could end up in walking away in the first few minutes of meeting someone face to face.

Maybe it could happen, but I highly doubt it is common and certainly shouldn't be used as a rule.

Also, IMO if a person is looking at the amount of money spent as an investment, it points to a character flaw. If the money is an issue, I would conclude, that you shouldn't be doing it in the first place and it goes for anything, not just looking for a wife in the FSU.

JR, I am not directing this at you, just giving my input in general.

[JR]

FP, Glyden. Yes you are right that such behavior is a character flaw. But it is one that many in this endeavor fall victim to and that is why I warned against it.

[Misha]

This is my take on it.

If, as a man, the thought of spending two weeks somewhere in the FSU without dating a woman (aka a tourist) seems to you hellish, then perhaps you should not be marrying a Russian woman.

If the thought of being surrounded by people who don't speak your language frightens you, then maybe you should not be marrying a Russian woman.

If the thought of going into a restaurant, pointing at foods at random because you can't really understand it yet, would frustrate you because the food won't be exactly like home, then perhaps you should not be marrying a Russian woman.

If you are not interested in the history of the FSU, the culture of the FSU in simply seeing how people live in the FSU, then perhaps you should not be marrying a RW.

Why do I say this? Quite simple. If you somehow marry a woman, whether she be the first or the 1,000^th RW you met, she will be from another country, another culture, more comfortably speaking her native language, will like different types of food, will have relatives who will speak another language, will have some slightly different customs, and you may even have to visit her country a few times over the coming years and decades. If you don't like the Russian culture and language, and could not simply spend two weeks in a FSU country as a tourist, IMHO this will not bode well for your future marriage.

My advice: if you are serious about this, go to the FSU simply as a tourist without the goal of meeting a woman. Call it the Write None Visit None approach. Then, if you like the people, like the country, like the culture, like the food, then and only then, IMHO should you even consider pursuing anything such as marriage with a RW.

[I/O]

Doesn't your wife object ?  

To being taken to bed? LOL, not likely, she's Russian FFS.

[Gylden]

Misha,

So true!! and funny!!

[JohnDearGreen]

This is my take on it...Then, if you like the people, like the country, like the culture, like the food, then and only then, IMHO should you even consider pursuing anything such as marriage with a RW.

Might be true if you are from Europe.  Total BS if you are from US.  The lady is moving here, I am not moving there.  I hated the food and culture there.  Most ladies I talked with, that wanted to move to US, told me they never wanted to be anywhere near another Russian person in the US.

[Gylden]

JohnDearGreen,

Are you married to a FSU woman? 

[Misha]

The lady is moving here, I am not moving there.  I hated the food and culture there.  Most ladies I talked with, that wanted to move to US, told me they never wanted to be anywhere near another Russian person in the US.

I take it you are not married yet. Do you think that once a woman moves to the USA that she learn how to cook American food, will never get homesick and make some borscht or some other Russian food? Trust me, you will have to eat some Russian food from time to time. If you refuse to eat it, it is quite likely that she will see it as an insult and she will think less of you.

It is easy for the woman you are chatting with to say now whom she won't want to be with once in the United States, but after a few weeks and months of speaking only English, a woman will likely pine for a conversation in Russian and will be happy to find any Russian for tea and a conversation in Russian. Sure, now, she is surrounded by people who speak her language and she can't even imagine what it is like to go through culture shock, once in the thick of it, you had better prepared for her to have a change of heart.

In other words, if you think that once you are married to a RW and she is living with you in the United States that she will leave behind her language and culture, you risk being disappointed. Sure, any RW will become integrated and will eventually assimilate, but this process will possibly take years, if not decades.

[UTRO]

Might be true if you are from Europe.  Total BS if you are from US.  The lady is moving here, I am not moving there.  I hated the food and culture there. 

Do yourself a favour and Never tell your Russian Woman this or you may be a very lonely Man!

Most ladies I talked with, that wanted to move to US, told me they never wanted to be anywhere near another Russian person in the US.

Until they begin to yearn for the 'Russian Soul' that they miss.....

[Gator]

Most ladies I talked with, that wanted to move to US, told me they never wanted to be anywhere near another Russian person in the US.

They said that only after you led the witness.  It won't happen unless you move to a small village in America.  Russians are everywhere and they find each other.

Before she came I thought my wife would focus primarily on Americans and and secondarily on Russians.  She spoke English and she is interested in American business.  So I made a point to introduce her to social circles of AW her age or at least in the same stage (e. g. kids in the same school grades). 

In reality 90% of her social life is with RW.

[JohnDearGreen]

I take it you are not married yet. Do you think...

Why do you assume such things?  Been married longer than this board has been around.

Trust me, you will have to eat some Russian food from time to time. If you refuse to eat it, it is quite likely that she will see it as an insult and she will think less of you.

Nonsense.  Only if the lady requested it.  There are many good Italian, Japanese, American restaurants in Ukraine and Russia.  I ate most frequently at an Italian restaurant next to movie theater Kiev across the street from where I was staying.  The beef steak with tomato sauce was excellent.

It is easy for the woman you are chatting with... 

I am not chatting with any women.

I have taken my lady to Russian meetups and Russian banya partys.  She had little or no interest in them, and has "zero" Russian speaking new friends in the US, just a couple of old friends she previously knew in her home city. 

A Ukraine woman told me long ago that most FSU ladies preferred Europe to the US.  I don't disagree with her.

[Misha]

Why do you assume such things?  Been married longer than this board has been around.

Because you write comments such as: "Most ladies I talked with...." Also, you do not indicate in your status whether you are married or not.

There are many good Italian, Japanese, American restaurants in Ukraine and Russia.

Sure, going to an Italian restaurant will be nice for a RW. However, do you really think a woman will stop cooking Russian food once she steps off the plane? Do you really think that she will never cook another borscht as soon as she is in the United States? Again, it is one thing to be meeting with women in Ukraine or Russia, it is another to have your wife living with you in a new country where she doesn't even recognize half of the products on the grocery store shelves....

I have taken my lady to Russian meetups and Russian banya partys.  She had little or no interest in them, and has "zero" Russian speaking new friends in the US, just a couple of old friends she previously knew in her home city.

You are contradicting yourself. She DOES have Russian friends in the United States that she speaks to in Russian. 

So, share with us, what does your wife typically cook? Does she cook Russian foods in the United States?

[ECOCKS]

My experience appears to be paralleling yours JDG.

With the exception of a preference for black breads, my wife has little interest in food, FSU magazines, Russian TV, R/U conversation or anything more than maintaining the contacts with family and close friends back home. I bought vareniki at the store  but ended up cooking it for myself and my parents one night while she enjoyed Alaskan salmon (her meal of choice).

The few Russian contacts which have been made she regards as distractions from learning about her new home and a desire to work on her English, maintain her Greek and continue to learn German.

Why do you assume such things?  Been married longer than this board has been around.
Nonsense.  Only if the lady requested it.  There are many good Italian, Japanese, American restaurants in Ukraine and Russia.  I ate most frequently at an Italian restaurant next to movie theater Kiev across the street from where I was staying.  The beef steak with tomato sauce was excellent.
I am not chatting with any women.

I have taken my lady to Russian meetups and Russian banya partys.  She had little or no interest in them, and has "zero" Russian speaking new friends in the US, just a couple of old friends she previously knew in her home city. 

A Ukraine woman told me long ago that most FSU ladies preferred Europe to the US.  I don't disagree with her.

[Misha]

With the exception of a preference for black breads, my wife has little interest in food, FSU magazines, Russian TV, R/U conversation or anything more than maintaining the contacts with family and close friends back home. I bought vareniki at the store  but ended up cooking it for myself and my parents one night while she enjoyed Alaskan salmon (her meal of choice).

When she is in a rush and cooks a meal, what foods are she likely to prepare? Greek? American?

[ECOCKS]

Bread and fruit.

[Misha]

Bread and fruit.

Okay, that explains it. Both my wife and I prepare more complicated meals at home.

[Shostakovich]

VM vs. VO - it must be one of the perennial debates here, like the max. age difference debate.

I've settled this a little differently than some of you so I'll post my solution.

I currently write to 3 ladies, each is great in their own way but with each there are concerns that can only be settled in a face-face encounter.  I spoken about a trip and they are all eager to meet and I would like to meet all three.  If these ladies were in the US I'd simply take each to a fine dinner and have a nice evening or day together and then decide, if they were all willing, which one to go to the next step with; not so easily arranged when in international pursuit.  I'd like to spend significant time with one as I do not have time/$ for multiple trips and my conscience would not allow parallel intimacy.  Thus I'll meet two and spend a couple of days with each while not letting the temperatures raise too high, then spend a week with the front-runner.  In this way I think I'll have enough information to make a selection from the three for round two or to start over.   

[ECOCKS]

Chuckling....sounds like a game show strategy.

Nothing negative, just gave me a chuckle!

[Shostakovich]

Game - that is true, hopefully it is fabulous prizes in the end. 

[Gylden]

VO / VM, Age difference. As stated, this is two of the most debated subjects concerning this endeavor.
Cost of the adventure, is however mentioned probably more often and is not usually debated, as far as I have seen everyone is in agreement about the fact it isn't cheap.
IMO if you are letting cost concerns alter or justify certain behaviour, it is a red flag of it's own.
If you run out of money, you will be SOL or settle for something less than you want.
 

[MattyB4]

Not wanting to get too heavily into this debate, illjust add my 2 penny's worth.

there seem to be far too many guys here who are thinking of this endeavour as some kind of shopping trip. You are looking for love, or at least that is what you would have people here believe, your true intentions known only to yourself, and i will not speculate.
You cant use the excuse that you want to be sure that you find them attractive before you commit, any woman with a computer can send you infinite pictures of themselves and most of them have webcams nowadays.
Saying its a numbers game is just a jask asses way of excusing behaviour which they wouldnt deem honorable in their own country. You only want to marry one woman, and only one woman should be the subject of your focus at one time, lest you be labelled a sex tourist. You cant give 100% of yourself to a person if you are only giving them 10% of your attention. and argue all you want, but if you have 5 other dates lined up for your trip, you wont be concentrating on the lady you are currently with.
Also having a "never mind got 5 others waiting" mentality will only have negative effects which the lady herself will also pick up on. It doesnt take a psychic to spot when someone isnt giving it 100% and doesnt really care how a date turns out, and you can garauntee that the first 4 of your dates will spot it straight away. Maybe when you are on the last one, and you are soon to be returning home and the "oh crap i had better pay attention and try to get my moneys worth" thinking starts kicking in, you will maybe do ok.
You can also use the excuse that its such a long way and that you need to make the trip worth the effort, which again is utter BS. If you are travelling half way round the world, to meet someone you have little experience with, and have not exchanged many emails or telephone calls with before you go, then its your own fault. International dating is no different from local dating, every woman deserves respect and honesty, and if you cant even afford those two simple things, which cost no money, then you dont deserve her.

[alex330]

I agree with you 100% Matt. Let me ask you though, what would you do for your next trip? What would you change? I read your trip report and I am in exactly the same situation. Same agency, one woman, etc.

[MattyB4]

well my current plan of action, is to find a woman i like using other means, i.e free dating sites or a different agency, and perhaps spend a little more time getting to know her and discussing the details of my trip before i leave. now that i have a better idea of things to watch out for, i can be more productive. I have exchanged emails with Iliona and although she doesnt write me every day, im keen to get to know her better as i at least know that she is genuine. But i will still only meet one woman at a time.