The Good, the bad, the ugly,... Get the truth.

[GregfromGa]

Yes clarification.
We all get a little touchy and 'in your face' at times.
Through time and we know who we can and can't poke a little fun at here. Right JR?!
I'd like to believe there is a good explanation for Amerkanski's comment and I would like to hear it.
If it is what I think it is, I want an apology and more importantly an apology to Svetlana.
Not only is she my wife and a Woman, she is a Member here on RWD.
One thing to attack me, I can handle it and will volley back, but we don't insult wives.

Maybe I'm wrong but I certainly didnt take what he said as an insult to your wife.

[Jooky]

Hey Amerikanski,

I appreciate all your answers.

My situation is similar to yours, so it’s interesting for me to hear about your experiences. I go to Russia primarily for business. I rent a flat in Novosibirsk and work with IT specialists who work from home. I’ve traveled all over the country from East to West but not as much as I’d like to. I’ve had a few serious girlfriends in Russia, and some not so serious, but I haven’t married yet. It’s likely I’ll end up married to a Russian gal, but it’s not on my checklist of things to do. I’d be just as happy married to an American woman or woman from just about anywhere (as long as she's hot  ).

Some of your experiences parallel mine. It’s easy to find materialistic and competitive women in Russia. Go to any downtown and it’s pretty clear that Russians like to flaunt their wealth, showing off their luxury sedans and the latest fashions. I’ve met a few sponsor seekers with their sugar daddies but the majority of women I’ve met would never consider or accept a sponsor type of relationship.

I’ve also met agency girls with shady pasts and devious intentions and I’ve met agency workers that scam and deceive. I’ve never used an agency but I have used a few of the bridal sites to meet women. The women I’ve met in person through these sites have been very nice and decent for the most part.

I haven’t noticed a particular Russian dislike for Americans. I’m always welcomed with open arms. However, I have been told that I’m ‘not a typical American’ or that ‘I’m just like a Russian’ on many occasions. That might say something.

Here’s where I get really puzzled…

A lot of men here talk about Russian women being stubborn and argumentative. These women feel entitled and they never say please, thank you or sorry.

You answered that “They are all like that”. You also mentioned the game playing and prison mentality and told a few stories.

I haven’t experienced much of this at all. For me I have to say "Almost none are like that".

Sure, even the babushki will push and shove in line, and you can’t expect the marshrutka driver or the woman selling ice cream when it’s -30 to be particularly friendly,  but away from their public façade I’ve found Russians in general to be very thoughtful, generous, polite and hospitable.

In public, I’m always addressed in the formal tense which is a form of polite respect. Spasibo always draws a Pozhaluista or Spasibo Vam.  Store clerks often go out of their way to help me find something I need, even if it means walking a few blocks with me to a competing store.

I’ve never dated a Russian woman who was especially argumentative or stubborn. I hear please and thank you all the time and sorry when it’s called for.  I’ve even been thanked for being so kind and understanding by girls that I’ve dumped!

None of my friends or ladies I’ve dated have felt entitled to my money. Instead they’re always grateful and go out of their way to do nice things for me: presenting me with parting gifts for myself and my family back home, cleaning my flat and stocking my fridge in preparation for my arrival, waiting for me at the airport freezing outside at some ungodly hour of the morning.

Yes, I’ve met some messed up women in Russia, but I’ve met very few that I could call rude and brash. I don’t buy these traits as being part of Russian culture.

That’s why I’m very interested in your experiences. I don’t meet these kind of women. My ex-pat friends in Moscow don’t either. But, many men here, including yourself, do.

So, what are we doing different, and what kind of real advice can we generate for a man looking for nice wife in Russia?

[Amerkanski]

Amerkanski-

What then, from your POV, will the Top Ten things AM need to adhere to when pursuing women of Russia as a bride?

What will be the Top Ten things that can be noted by AMs to better understand the dynamics of women of Russia?

What will be the Top Ten things must AMs prepare themselves for when getting involved with a woman from Russia that they would not normally encounter with an AW?

You serious? I am not going to write down 30 answers to your "general" questions. How about we start with three?

[Misha]

I am NOT looking to meet RW it just happens naturally and the point of the post.

Yet, you meet them. Do you ask them out for dates or do they ask you out? Do you speak Russian? Just the fact that you are not Russian, not even a man from the FSU, precluded IMHO you meeting women "naturally." As soon as you open your mouth, that will let everybody within earshot know that you are not local, and that will automatically attract some women to you. What cafes and bars do you frequent? Do you go to cafes, bars and restaurants where the staff know some English? I am sure that the cafes you frequent are not attracting the "average" Russian and this alone is influencing the type of woman who you just "happen" to meet in Russia.

[GQBlues]

You serious? I am not going to write down 30 answers to your "general" questions. How about we start with three?

  Aww c'mon. It's likely -40 degrees outside where you are so this will be a good exercise for you! But yes, OK...3 will be a good start. Maybe one out of each section (?)

[Doll]

Yet, you meet them. Do you ask them out for dates or do they ask you out? Do you speak Russian? Just the fact that you are not Russian, not even a man from the FSU, precluded IMHO you meeting women "naturally." As soon as you open your mouth, that will let everybody within earshot know that you are not local, and that will automatically attract some women to you. What cafes and bars do you frequent? Do you go to cafes, bars and restaurants where the staff know some English? I am sure that the cafes you frequent are not attracting the "average" Russian and this alone is influencing the type of woman who you just "happen" to meet in Russia.

[Amerkanski]

Well just got back home and went back to where I left off in this Thread.....

Amerkanski, would you care to Explain what you mean by the remark in BOLD above?

There are rules here and one thing we don't do is make insulting remarks towards wives....

I'll give you a chance to clarify. Mods?


Amerkanski,

As you can tell (or should be able to tell), you may have - and likely did - offend one of our members. UTRO has asked, patiently, for you to address the meaning behind what you wrote. Your silence on the matter is of some concern.

Please respond to his question.

- Dan

I have no idea how he can be upset about what I said. Maybe from time to time, he should lift his head up and look around a bit and learn something..

[Admin]

I have no idea how he can be upset about what I said. Maybe from time to time, he should lift his head up and look around a bit and learn something..

Simple question:

Was your comment, in any way, 'aimed' at UTRO's wife?

No evasions, and no further tangents - a simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.

- Dan

[Amerkanski]

Hey Amerikanski,

I appreciate all your answers.

My situation is similar to yours, so it’s interesting for me to hear about your experiences. I go to Russia primarily for business. I rent a flat in Novosibirsk and work with IT specialists who work from home. I’ve traveled all over the country from East to West but not as much as I’d like to. I’ve had a few serious girlfriends in Russia, and some not so serious, but I haven’t married yet. It’s likely I’ll end up married to a Russian gal, but it’s not on my checklist of things to do. I’d be just as happy married to an American woman or woman from just about anywhere (as long as she's hot  ).

Some of your experiences parallel mine. It’s easy to find materialistic and competitive women in Russia. Go to any downtown and it’s pretty clear that Russians like to flaunt their wealth, showing off their luxury sedans and the latest fashions. I’ve met a few sponsor seekers with their sugar daddies but the majority of women I’ve met would never consider or accept a sponsor type of relationship.

I’ve also met agency girls with shady pasts and devious intentions and I’ve met agency workers that scam and deceive. I’ve never used an agency but I have used a few of the bridal sites to meet women. The women I’ve met in person through these sites have been very nice and decent for the most part.

I haven’t noticed a particular Russian dislike for Americans. I’m always welcomed with open arms. However, I have been told that I’m ‘not a typical American’ or that ‘I’m just like a Russian’ on many occasions. That might say something.

Here’s where I get really puzzled…

A lot of men here talk about Russian women being stubborn and argumentative. These women feel entitled and they never say please, thank you or sorry.

You answered that “They are all like that”. You also mentioned the game playing and prison mentality and told a few stories.

I haven’t experienced much of this at all. For me I have to say "Almost none are like that".

Sure, even the babushki will push and shove in line, and you can’t expect the marshrutka driver or the woman selling ice cream when it’s -30 to be particularly friendly,  but away from their public façade I’ve found Russians in general to be very thoughtful, generous, polite and hospitable.

In public, I’m always addressed in the formal tense which is a form of polite respect. Spasibo always draws a Pozhaluista or Spasibo Vam.  Store clerks often go out of their way to help me find something I need, even if it means walking a few blocks with me to a competing store.

I’ve never dated a Russian woman who was especially argumentative or stubborn. I hear please and thank you all the time and sorry when it’s called for.  I’ve even been thanked for being so kind and understanding by girls that I’ve dumped!

None of my friends or ladies I’ve dated have felt entitled to my money. Instead they’re always grateful and go out of their way to do nice things for me: presenting me with parting gifts for myself and my family back home, cleaning my flat and stocking my fridge in preparation for my arrival, waiting for me at the airport freezing outside at some ungodly hour of the morning.

Yes, I’ve met some messed up women in Russia, but I’ve met very few that I could call rude and brash. I don’t buy these traits as being part of Russian culture.

That’s why I’m very interested in your experiences. I don’t meet these kind of women. My ex-pat friends in Moscow don’t either. But, many men here, including yourself, do.

So, what are we doing different, and what kind of real advice can we generate for a man looking for nice wife in Russia?

Great post! Let me cover a couple of your points and answer your question.

Here’s where I get really puzzled…

A lot of men here talk about Russian women being stubborn and argumentative. These women feel entitled and they never say please, thank you or sorry.

You answered that “They are all like that”. You also mentioned the game playing and prison mentality and told a few stories.

My answer was laced sarcasm. The truth could be brutal. Maybe they feel they are doing you a favor and they earned it....  

Or.. your relationship has developed to a point that it's your job to provide everything so stop crying. As mentioned, RW can be rude and brash and it's just how they are generally viewed in a "western culture".. If you really want to confuse a RW try to explain to her why you don't drink or eat the last thing in "your" fridge.

So, what are we doing different, and what kind of real advice can we generate for a man looking for nice wife in Russia?

I am truly the wrong guy to ask.. As mentioned in my first post on why I would never marry a RW.

[Amerkanski]

Simple question:

Was your comment, in any way, 'aimed' at UTRO's wife?

No evasions, and no further tangents - a simple 'yes' or 'no' will suffice.

- Dan

No not at all. I am starting to get the feeling he does not like me..

[Admin]

No not at all. I am starting to get the feeling he does not like me..

>>I am starting to get the feeling he does not like me..<<

You are not exactly the poster child for likability - nor made any effort to be likable.

Little wonder then, the observation you make is quite valid.

- Dan

[JR]

Through time and we know who we can and can't poke a little fun at here. Right JR?!

Huh, who...me? Oh hell, I try to poke everbody but some are easier than others and oh my looky at that ig target on my back. Wonder who put that there, staring at Seeker!!!

[Jooky]

Amerikanski,

Have you met any Russian women that you don't consider rude, brash and entitled? None? A few? Many?

Are the guys that work for you married or dating nice, decent girls that you would consider to be good 'wife' material? Or do their wives and girlfriends also possess the negative attributes you attribute to Russian women in general? Or do you not associate with them enough on a personal level to make that judgement call?

I also don't quite grasp some of your last comments.

Maybe they feel they are doing you a favor and they earned it....

Is that a situation you find yourself in when dating Russian women? Do they feel they are doing you a favor?

Or.. your relationship has developed to a point that it's your job to provide everything so stop crying.

Also, is that a situation you find yourself in?

I've haven't found myself in either situation when dating in Russia. Most of the Russian men I hang out with don't seem to be in these situations either. It seems strange to me. Do you think this has to do with you being an ex-pat, or do the Russian men you know also provide everything for women who feel they are doing them a favor?

[Amerkanski]

Yet, you meet them. Do you ask them out for dates or do they ask you out? Do you speak Russian? Just the fact that you are not Russian, not even a man from the FSU, precluded IMHO you meeting women "naturally." As soon as you open your mouth, that will let everybody within earshot know that you are not local, and that will automatically attract some women to you. What cafes and bars do you frequent? Do you go to cafes, bars and restaurants where the staff know some English? I am sure that the cafes you frequent are not attracting the "average" Russian and this alone is influencing the type of woman who you just "happen" to meet in Russia.

Some great questions here:
Yet, you meet them. Do you ask them out for dates or do they ask you out?

99% of the time they will start the conversation and especially if I'm speaking with friends or staff.

Do you speak Russian?

Only if the whiskey is 15 years or older  

Just the fact that you are not Russian, not even a man from the FSU, precluded IMHO you meeting women "naturally.

You need to get out and travel more.

As soon as you open your mouth, that will let everybody within earshot know that you are not local, and that will automatically attract some women to you.

I never do this. "IF" I am in a cafe or "out" alone I keep a very low profile. Why paint a target on your head? Also, when I speak Russian, the first answer is usually where are you from? ..Or they answer in English.


What cafes and bars do you frequent?

Most of the time it's just local. To be honest, I don't go out as much as you might think. I'll hit a cafe to get some coffee or to get away from a computer, but you'll rarely catch me out after dark alone. EVER.

Do you go to cafes, bars and restaurants where the staff know some English?

Just one. The menu is in English and has great Georgian food. I've been there 25x in 3 years and never met any Westerners there.

I am sure that the cafes you frequent are not attracting the "average" Russian and this alone is influencing the type of woman who you just "happen" to meet in Russia.

Yes, these are my local cafes, but as mentioned I keep a low profile and believe me I have had more then a few problems in some. That's how "local" they are.  

Great questions.. thanks.

[Amerkanski]

Amerikanski,

Have you met any Russian women that you don't consider rude, brash and entitled? None? A few? Many?

Are the guys that work for you married or dating nice, decent girls that you would consider to be good 'wife' material? Or do their wives and girlfriends also possess the negative attributes you attribute to Russian women in general? Or do you not associate with them enough on a personal level to make that judgement call?

I also don't quite grasp some of your last comments.
Is that a situation you find yourself in when dating Russian women? Do they feel they are doing you a favor?
Also, is that a situation you find yourself in?

I've haven't found myself in either situation when dating in Russia. Most of the Russian men I hang out with don't seem to be in these situations either. It seems strange to me. Do you think this has to do with you being an ex-pat, or do the Russian men you know also provide everything for women who feel they are doing them a favor?

Have you met any Russian women that you don't consider rude, brash and entitled? None? A few? Many? 

This is a complicated question. Yes, many. I have a favorite music store and I am horrible understanding Russian numbers. So when the girl rings up the total she will write down the numbers for me. That kind of stuff,- the nice little gestures that sure help a lot. Now she just tell me the total in English. I also buy flowers a lot for the office and the girl I buy from learned English very quickly and now even jokes a bit. She'll say, you look like you gained weight.. you need to buy more flowers..lol

Rude, brash:
Have you ever been on an overnight Russian train with a RW cabin attendant? Or go in the wrong line at a bank to cash in some money?

entitled?
Now this is the million dollar question and very very complicated answer. I truly do want to answer it but the married guys will cry to the admin and I'd probably be banned.

Are the guys that work for you married or dating nice, decent girls that you would consider to be good 'wife' material? Or do their wives and girlfriends also possess the negative attributes you attribute to Russian women in general? Or do you not associate with them enough on a personal level to make that judgement call?

Life is life. In truth, I don't ask and RM don't talk about that kind of stuff publicly to anyone. Only American men sit around and talk about their feelings, women, girlfriends, ETC. Now, when I am with my RM friends in a cafe/bar the main topic of the conversation is usually about money, and how and where to get more of it. Or how stupid people are depending how much has been consumed. Now, the women are just plain brutal to each other.

I also don't quite grasp some of your last comments.
Is that a situation you find yourself in when dating Russian women? Do they feel they are doing you a favor?
Also, is that a situation you find yourself in?

Again, a very complicated question with a far more complicated answer. I very much want to tell the truth (MO) because there is a lot to be learned here, but this thread would explode with hate.

I've haven't found myself in either situation when dating in Russia. Most of the Russian men I hang out with don't seem to be in these situations either. It seems strange to me. Do you think this has to do with you being an ex-pat, or do the Russian men you know also provide everything for women who feel they are doing them a favor?

Again, I don't talk to my RM friends about these issues. Manly because they do not have the problem or could see through our eyes.

Great questions thanks.

[Misha]

You need to get out and travel more.

Let's see, I have been traveling to Russia for the past 15 years 

[Misha]

I never do this. "IF" I am in a cafe or "out" alone I keep a very low profile.

The fact of the matter is that foreigners can't effectively keep a "low profile." They stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. I can usually spot a foreigner in Russia 100 yards away. The way foreigners from North America dress, walk, and even stand sets them apart. You don't need to do anything to stick out, you simply do by the very fact of being there. Canadians and Americans who think that they can keep a low profile in Russia, IMHO, are deluding themselves.

[Amerkanski]

The fact of the matter is that foreigners can't effectively keep a "low profile." They stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. I can usually spot a foreigner in Russia 100 yards away. The way foreigners from North America dress, walk, and even stand sets them apart. You don't need to do anything to stick out, you simply do by the very fact of being there. Canadians and Americans who think that they can keep a low profile in Russia, IMHO, are deluding themselves.

I am glad you contributed to my thread and I took the time to answer your questions politely. But what I am most excited about being back in the US is you are actually saving me money. You see I had a sales guy knock on my door today trying to sell me an encyclopedia set. They were beautiful books with every answer you could ever want, but the price was $1000 and I was seriously thinking about buying them. Now, I can just come in here and ask you free... because you know everything.

Thank you for that

[Jooky]

Interesting answers. Your posts tell a whole lot more about you than about Russian women.

Projecting examples of an train attendant or bank cashier's behavior onto 'Russian women' in general is like me using an example of the rude bitches working at the Oakland DMV as an illustration of American women. It's silly and it's plain wrong.

I work with Russian men every day and I have many Russian male friends. I hold weekly meetings with my workers where we drink until dawn and discuss everything under the sun. Strangely enough we don't talk much about money or how stupid people are, but they do talk about women, just like men in every country I've ever been to.

Your answers just tell me that you don't have close personal relationships with your workers or probably with anyone in Russia, despite spending much of your time there over the past five years. You have a very narrow experience of Russia, but consider it the truth. My experiences are limited as well, but I know there's a lot more out there and some great gentle women alongside the rude and brash ones you spend your time with.

If you’ve spent so much time in Russia and still need numbers written down for you then you’re not interacting much with regular Russians. If  you don’t make an effort to speak Russian at all, it’s no wonder you find Russians to be rude. Likely they think the same about you.

I can see where you’re coming from though. If you’re meeting women that approach you, they’ve already pegged you as an American, at least a foreigner, and most likely someone with money. I’ve been targeted the same way by young women with dollar signs in their eyes. Maybe these women would be exactly as you describe, but I wouldn’t know. I never get to know them. I can enjoy a bit of flirting at a nightclub, but when these girls force their numbers into my cell phone, I never give them a call. Sorry, but these girls are trash. Their intentions are obvious and they’re not worth chasing.

I don’t see how telling the truth about your own relationships is going to offend anyone. I think it’s your insistence that your experiences are the only ones to be had that bother people here. I don’t see why though. The married guys should know better. I do.

[Jumper]

Amerianitz-

quite  a 'tude.

You don't think Misha has a valid point?
 I'm American and can spot a western foreigner there in most cases in a heartbeat.
if  having  chance to observe someone buying something, or ordering at a cafe ,it would be easier.

To a Russian it's hardly a challenge, and to pretend different is silly.

No matter how low a profile you attempt to keep.. certainly in your area of Volgograd are "known"


Now wether that effects the type of women you meet i have no idea..
or if "different" they would be the same *type* that a Western man looking for a bride would-
 is worth considering.

If you are trying to help ,these are the types of things that would.





If you are trying to show how large the chip is on your shoulder,, you seem to have  done that successfully already ..

I'm divorced from a RW ,and would say some of the traits you bring up ,might fit parts of her personality, ,but others not at all..certainly wasn't generally rude ,brash , or impolite.
*Thank you's* and appreciation was a common theme, and  for that matter still is.
and that's an "ex"

To me the generalities you've posted are  like reading the horoscope ,, worded  so it could fit almost anyone regardless your sign..


My experince in the FSU isnt like yours at all,is much mor esimilar to kjookys,,
 even though i have seen some of the "crabs in a bucket "mentality you refer to.
 

[UTRO]

I have no idea how he can be upset about what I said. Maybe from time to time, he should lift his head up and look around a bit and learn something..

Ur a Jerk plain and simple Amerkanski. Surprised you've lasted so long in Volgograd. Then again not. Your personality is what has kept you there and not back home in the USA.



Your Sveta is a nice looking Woman and probably a really sweet Lady Have you told her that you'll rid of her like a used tissue when you return home? see quote below....

Have I ever been married to a Russian women? No, and never would.

And have you told her how much you care for her and respect her?? see quote below....

Russian women have prison mentality and try to find and exploit any mental or emotional weakness and it's a game played every second you are around them. Matter of fact, they are more attracted to strong mental/physical men then they are to intellectuals. In short, the game never stops and if it does they will quickly move onto the next.
"What is the ugly side of a relationship to a RW?" They are completely addicted to materialistic things and in constant competition with each other. They are obsessed with having something better then others and have no problems trying to acquire it by any means. The positive side to this obsession is also why many of them look beautiful at ages 30 and up.

What number Boyfriend are you Amerkanski??? see quote below....

It is very common for a women to have 2-3 boyfriends (older) to supply her with materialistic things and money for her to look good for her number 1 man. This behavior covers all social casts and age groups up to almost 50.

[Amerkanski]

Interesting answers. Your posts tell a whole lot more about you than about Russian women.

Projecting examples of an train attendant or bank cashier's behavior onto 'Russian women' in general is like me using an example of the rude bitches working at the Oakland DMV as an illustration of American women. It's silly and it's plain wrong.

I work with Russian men every day and I have many Russian male friends. I hold weekly meetings with my workers where we drink until dawn and discuss everything under the sun. Strangely enough we don't talk much about money or how stupid people are, but they do talk about women, just like men in every country I've ever been to.

Your answers just tell me that you don't have close personal relationships with your workers or probably with anyone in Russia, despite spending much of your time there over the past five years. You have a very narrow experience of Russia, but consider it the truth. My experiences are limited as well, but I know there's a lot more out there and some great gentle women alongside the rude and brash ones you spend your time with.

If you’ve spent so much time in Russia and still need numbers written down for you then you’re not interacting much with regular Russians. If  you don’t make an effort to speak Russian at all, it’s no wonder you find Russians to be rude. Likely they think the same about you.

I can see where you’re coming from though. If you’re meeting women that approach you, they’ve already pegged you as an American, at least a foreigner, and most likely someone with money. I’ve been targeted the same way by young women with dollar signs in their eyes. Maybe these women would be exactly as you describe, but I wouldn’t know. I never get to know them. I can enjoy a bit of flirting at a nightclub, but when these girls force their numbers into my cell phone, I never give them a call. Sorry, but these girls are trash. Their intentions are obvious and they’re not worth chasing.

I don’t see how telling the truth about your own relationships is going to offend anyone. I think it’s your insistence that your experiences are the only ones to be had that bother people here. I don’t see why though. The married guys should know better. I do.

Well your post was slanted and baited from the start period and I was not going to fall for it. But most important, I don't agree with what half you wrote and you're heavily sugarcoating. If you actually read my first post it was not directed at YOUR Russian experience, but towards someone who is going to the RU for there for their first time. Meaning, I am keeping my replies as basic as possible for the "new" guy. Not you

[Amerkanski]

Ur a Jerk plain and simple Amerkanski. Surprised you've lasted so long in Volgograd. Then again not. Your personality is what has kept you there and not back home in the USA.



Your Sveta is a nice looking Woman and probably a really sweet Lady Have you told her that you'll rid of her like a used tissue when you return home? see quote below....


And have you told her how much you care for her and respect her?? see quote below....


What number Boyfriend are you Amerkanski??? see quote below....

You still angry with me? I would reply, but why wake the admin? ..ehh?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Ur a Jerk plain and simple Amerkanski. Surprised you've lasted so long in Volgograd. Then again not. Your personality is what has kept you there and not back home in the USA.

You don't lead by example.  You have called him a few names in this thread.  Looks to me like you are a jerk as well.  I would think you should be warned by the mods. 

[ECOCKS]

You guys are feeding him attention.

Don't be surprised that he hangs around for more. remember Ambach and Sculpto.