WMVM

[tim 360]

Pacifica,  I would think that after some emails and phone calls you would have a date with a guy in another city, but it would be a date that you traveled to.  Then you are also left with the chance of no chemistry or just personality incompatibilities or whatever.  You never know another person until you are with them and the emails and phone calls are just qualifiers and in real life he could really be a boob. You don't know anything until you have some facetime.

If you can wrangle up another or a few qualified guys in the same area/city you could just say to the qualified guys you have some friends to meet.  That's it short and sweet.  Anyway you cut it you could meet guys you do not find so interesting in person.  I would recommend choosing locales where you could do some sightseeing if things don't pan out.  Select places that have some aspect that will give you something to do so your journey isn't a complete waste.

Even if you do meet a guy where everything clicks for you and him--you are then in an LDR (long distance relationship) and that has its own set of problems.  Good luck.

[Faux Pas]

I can't speak for AM, but if I had been contacted by and over time got friendly with a good-looking woman such as you - but preferably shorter - from another place in Italy, I'd be more than willing to hop on a car/plane and go visiting her myself , or arrange to meet her in a mutually interesting place midway. Do you hint that you'd welcome a visit, before volunteering to do so yourself?

Brianinaz and Misha make a major point: if your date is promising, then relocating for either of you is unavoidably on a future agenda - bar a few exceptions, here it always meant the woman doing so. Can you/will you do that? The current economic situation does not appear to encourage relocations.

In other words, "expanding your dating pool" now may only produce dates, not much further realistically .

If I understood her dilemma correctly, it seems you guys are putting the cart well before the horse. Pacifica was asking how to line up a WMVM in various places within the US based on methods a WMVM do so in the FSU. You guys are already relocating.  I was a participant in the internet dating scene in it's infancy. In the beginning it would have been relatively easy to model it much the same way as men do going abroad today however, it would seem the dynamics have changed tremendously since those days. I really do not see it as feasible without sending out a BIG notice on her forehead to her prospects that she is a "player".

Allow me to explain. It is much easier and feasible to do a WOVO all within the US than it is to go to Russia. If it doesn't work out hey, it was a weekend and a few hundred bucks. If one doesn't work out in Russia or Ukraine hey, it's a week or two of vacation and a few thousand bucks. A big difference in my line of thought. FSUW would likely be just a bit more accepting because of the difficulties whereas AM probably wouldn't be so accepting at all, unless they didn't care about you or maybe were just hard up or horny.

Pacifica, would you do the same within Russia to possible dating prospects? Say, line up a number of dates in Petersburg and fly up from Moscow for the weekend to date them all? How do you expect RM would approach you with such knowledge?

[Misha]

If I understood her dilemma correctly, it seems you guys are putting the cart well before the horse.

Do you think she can't find dates if she simply wanted to date? Clearly, the problem (reading between the lines) is that she can't find the kind of guys she wants for more than dating in her city. I.e. the kind of guy that she wants for a relationship and marriage. If that is the case, then going to date more men won't resolve that problem if at the end of the day neither she nor he will be willing to move.

[Gylden]

"If you can wrangle up another or a few qualified guys in the same area/city you could just say to the qualified guys you have some friends to meet.  That's it short and sweet."

This is an example of lying by omission or at best an attempt at deception.

[Faux Pas]

Do you think she can't find dates if she simply wanted to date? Clearly, the problem (reading between the lines) is that she can't find the kind of guys she wants for more than dating in her city. I.e. the kind of guy that she wants for a relationship and marriage. If that is the case, then going to date more men won't resolve that problem if at the end of the day neither she nor he will be willing to move.

I have no idea if she can find dates Misha, I assume from her picture model looks and temperament on the forum that certainly is not the problem. If I read her OP correctly, she has tired of the one date blues after traveling and meeting a few duds and was thinking more in terms of traveling to different cities and doing the WMVM that is so often referred to on RWD.

One would have to actually meet and plan a future with one to start the considerations of relocation wouldn't they? I don't recall where she stated that she would not relocate. Maybe she didn't mention it because she isn't even in that zip code yet with those she has met?

[SANDRO43]

Faux Pas, as Misha implied, we're assuming that Pacifica is NOT a sex tourist .

[Faux Pas]

"If you can wrangle up another or a few qualified guys in the same area/city you could just say to the qualified guys you have some friends to meet.  That's it short and sweet."

This is an example of lying by omission or at best an attempt at deception.

I believe it was Jollyrats that went on what he thought was a date with a local RW and it turned out he was one of many on the same date. I don't think he cottoned to well to the idea. 

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas, as Misha explained, we're assuming that Pacifica is NOT a sex tourist .

Jeeze SANDRO you've taken more liberties than Misha with his "reading between the lines" line. I never assumed Pacifica was a sex tourist either. From her OP I assumed she is hoping to find a way to "date", not lay more guys in the cities that she travels where the first guy goes tits up and she's left holding an empty bag. She seems to me (and I could be mistaken) looking for a way to meet more quality men on the same trip, I think she is going to have a hard time doing that from internet personals.

[SANDRO43]

She seems to me (and I could be mistaken) looking for a way to meet more quality men on the same trip, I think she is going to have a hard time doing that from internet personals.

More seriously, I agree. But the whole exercise would be pointless - we assume - unless the implied relocation is acceptable to either party .

We'll have to await her views on this crucial question .

[Misha]

One would have to actually meet and plan a future with one to start the considerations of relocation wouldn't they?

No, they wouldn't. I live in city X in Canada. I have relatives in larger city Y. Using dating sites, I tried to meet women from City Y and was invariably shot down as they did not want to meet any man simply for a date as they knew it would go nowhere. Sure, it will be easier for Pacifica as an attractive young woman to find dates, but if she is expecting a man to quit his job and move to her, this is unlikely IMHO if he is truly a catch...

[Faux Pas]

More seriously, I agree. But the whole exercise would be pointless - we assume - unless the implied relocation is acceptable to either party .

We'll have to await her views on this crucial question .

True

No, they wouldn't. I live in city X in Canada. I have relatives in larger city Y. Using dating sites, I tried to meet women from City Y and was invariably shot down as they did not want to meet any man simply for a date as they knew it would go nowhere. Sure, it will be easier for Pacifica as an attractive young woman to find dates, but if she is expecting a man to quit his job and move to her, this is unlikely IMHO if he is truly a catch...

Misha your whole point is built on your reading between the lines and the strawman that relocation hasn't been discussed prior to her visit. She never mentioned anything about. A moot point really but not what she asked in her OP

[Blues Fairy]

DC is a 4.5 hour drive from Snowshoe WV; I would just plan a skiing weekend and invite my pen-pal; if there's chemistry than all is well; if there's none, at least we can ski to our hearts' content! 

[BillyB]

A few weeks ago I took a trip to Washington, DC to meet a guy that I've emailed with and talked on the phone for months, only to find out that there was no chemistry what so ever. Since it was WOVO, I was kind of stuck with him for the weekend.

Interesting to read this coming from a woman.

Pacifica, men take a lot of risk visiting a RW overseas just for a first date that will determine chemistry. In my opinion that is a man's responsibility to go see the woman for the first date. My suggestion to you is that if a guy is not motivated enough to visit you, then he's not as interested in you as you may think or can't afford to visit you and can't afford a relationship with a foreign woman.

You're a beautiful lady and your appearance is respectable. You should not have a problem getting a man to visit you. Maybe you have such high standards that the men who happen fit your criteria as the ideal man aren't as interested in you as you are in them so you would have to visit them for a first date?

[pacifica]

Ok, guys, I see you started over-analyzing it Of course, I wouldn't look at other cities if I wouldn't be willing to relocate. People in US move all the time - for college, for work, for being closer with family. I don't see why moving for the love of my life is not a reason good enough. If the man will want to move to my town, that's fine, but I am not expecting it. Anyway, this is something me and him would have to discuss down the road.

[pacifica]

Since you're on a board that discusses FSU women I will take the liberty of assuming you're from the FSU.

I am originally, but moved out 19 years ago.

if you want to expand your options and you're free to move then pick a coast and move and then look locally.

I wouldn't mind moving for someone I love, but leaving my job, friends and everything I know just to be in the same position of "searching" is not exactly what I am looking for.

[pacifica]

I can't speak for AM, but if I had been contacted by and over time got friendly with a good-looking woman such as you - but preferably shorter - from another place in Italy, I'd be more than willing to hop on a car/plane and go visiting her myself , or arrange to meet her in a mutually interesting place midway. Do you hint that you'd welcome a visit, before volunteering to do so yourself?

Well, I've had only this one trip so far, and we discussed all kinds of options - me coming over, him coming over, or meeting somewhere half way. Since I like to travel, I thought it would be nice to do some sightseeing and meet the guy at the same time.

Brianinaz and Misha make a major point: if your date is promising, then relocating for either of you is unavoidably on a future agenda - bar a few exceptions, here it always meant the woman doing so. Can you/will you do that? The current economic situation does not appear to encourage relocations.

As I said, I don't mind relocating. I am in IT, and never had any problem finding a job.

[pacifica]

Pacifica,  I would think that after some emails and phone calls you would have a date with a guy in another city, but it would be a date that you traveled to.  Then you are also left with the chance of no chemistry or just personality incompatibilities or whatever.  You never know another person until you are with them and the emails and phone calls are just qualifiers and in real life he could really be a boob. You don't know anything until you have some facetime.

Believe me, I know that very well. Do you suggest that WOVO is not worth it?

If you can wrangle up another or a few qualified guys in the same area/city you could just say to the qualified guys you have some friends to meet.  That's it short and sweet. 

That would be lying.

Even if you do meet a guy where everything clicks for you and him--you are then in an LDR (long distance relationship) and that has its own set of problems.  Good luck.

I know. But I think it's worth it.

[GQBlues]

Ok, guys, I see you started over-analyzing it

LOL. Well, welcome to RWD! 

Had you given it a day more, they would've been discussing 'why your relationship didn't work out' stage.

[pacifica]

If I understood her dilemma correctly, it seems you guys are putting the cart well before the horse. Pacifica was asking how to line up a WMVM in various places within the US based on methods a WMVM do so in the FSU. You guys are already relocating. 

I really do not see it as feasible without sending out a BIG notice on her forehead to her prospects that she is a "player".

I understand that you oppose WMVM and I respect that. But I don't understand how it makes me a "player". All I want to do is find my true match. I always pay for myself, and there is no sex involved, so what kind of game am I "playing" and what am I gaining by playing it?

Pacifica, would you do the same within Russia to possible dating prospects? Say, line up a number of dates in Petersburg and fly up from Moscow for the weekend to date them all? How do you expect RM would approach you with such knowledge?

No idea, never really dated in Russia, since I left when I was 17. But I don't think there should be any difference.

[pacifica]

Interesting to read this coming from a woman.

Pacifica, men take a lot of risk visiting a RW overseas just for a first date that will determine chemistry. In my opinion that is a man's responsibility to go see the woman for the first date. My suggestion to you is that if a guy is not motivated enough to visit you, then he's not as interested in you as you may think or can't afford to visit you and can't afford a relationship with a foreign woman.

Well, I see things differently. For me, men and women are equal, so there are no "man's responsibilities". I am not a foreign woman, and I am not looking for someone to "afford" me. If there is mutual interest to meet, things can be discussed and decided together. On this one trip that I've taken, it was decided that I would visit, but it doesn't mean it would be the same on future dates.

[Faux Pas]

I understand that you oppose WMVM and I respect that. But I don't understand how it makes me a "player". All I want to do is find my true match. I always pay for myself, and there is no sex involved, so what kind of game am I "playing" and what am I gaining by playing it?

I really don't oppose WMVM. To each his/her own. I personally am not capable of pulling it off.  You obviously have been in the dating scene in the US long enough to know that perception is reality to many or most  AM and doing a WMVM here would not be the same as a WM going to do the same in FSU.  No visas coupled with little time and little money invested. There really is no comparison.

I think the men that you went to visit once finding out would likely present you with a dilemma. If they continued the relationship, likely they were/are hard up and quite possible not relationship material. Those that are relationship material possibly would bolt upon finding out. The male and AM psyche is a fragile thing.

I don't think it is a double standard applied here (just thought I would throw that in), if you went to Russia on a WMVM I think it would be just as accepted (or not) by your prospects as it is for the men. A trip to Russia is much more intensive than a weekender to DC. IMO  It, in my mind doesn't make you a player but, that would be the perception. Probably much more accepted by the younger generation Y than those closer to my generation (X) But I do wish you good luck in whatever you decide 

[BillyB]

For me, men and women are equal, so there are no "man's responsibilities".

Fine, then look at it this way, if a man is really interested in a woman, he will chase her wherever she may live. I along with many other men value things in life that we invested time in and worked for and that includes women.

[acrzybear]

Pacifica

 Everyone is over thinking this situation, just write a guy or two and if you want to meet them just tell them you will be in town for a day or two.  If things work out with one of them then just let the other guy know something came up and you will not be able to meet him.  You're not lying and you're keeping things simple until you decide you want to take another step.

 I myself am a WOVO kind of guy, but that's just my way.

[Misha]

A moot point really but not what she asked in her OP

Perhaps, but to be honest, I really doubt most of the men here will be able to provide the advice she needs  She is in the USA, likely looking for a young man in his thirties who has zero interest in Russian women. I expect that the men Pacifica would want to date have a completely different mindset than the men here.

[RussianWind]

For me, men and women are equal, so there are no "man's responsibilities".

That's maybe a clue why all men in this board look in the FSU where feminism ideas don't prosper too much. Men want to feel they are needed