what cities in ukraine to visit, and first dream?

[joey]

hello all
 can anybody give me some advice on what cities are good to meet serious women in ukraine and if anybody has used firstdream and his tour service
thanks

[GregfromGa]

Well I dont know anything about First dream so I cant help you there.  Knowing what I know now, I wish I wouldve spent more time in Lviv rather than Kiev or Kharkov. Kiev is just too expensive these days. I went to Lviv on my last trip while my wife was with her family and I really enjoyed the city. The people seemed nice and it's so much cheaper than Kiev.

[Thomcat]

Hello Joey,
I looked at the website and he uses some reputable agencies that I did recognize, but I would weigh the cost against using a local agency even one of the ones he uses and try to concentrate on one city. If it is your first trip I think an agency that has a local office might be the best way to go.

[tim 360]

You'll find the owner of Firstdream here on RWD.  His name is Jack.  You can send him a PM or give him a call.

Turboguy and others have used his services him so you can check with them and get it straight.

[Jack]

His name is Jack. 

Hey Tim it's "Jack",  in black, not red.   

[cranehand]

I met a serious woman first time out.  She is from Kherson,  The town is not flashy or over priced for an extended stay and I recall seeing attractive women every time I was on the street or in the cafe with my girl.  It is small in comparison to Kiev or Odessa but they don't call it the city of brides for nothing I bet .

Good luck my man and happy hunting.

[ECOCKS]

It's a "target-rich environment" wherever you go. Big towns/cities have better infrastructure and more to do, smaller locales offer a more realistic view of the country and its people.

My advice. Don't try to over-extend your self on the first visit. Unless the tourism bug is your primary reason for visiting I wouldn't try more than two towns/cities and then it's up to you whether you're WOVO'ing or WMVM'ing. Start looking at the women who are expressing an interest in international relationships and open up communications with them. You can try Elena's Models or one of the free sites to get an idea of how the women present themselves. Start a couple of months (at least) ahead of time.

Personally, I don't think the tours are that worthwhile but everyone has an opinion. You need to make your investment in this venture and the best way is to get personally involved in the search. Drop in on the chatroom some evening and ask whatever questions are on your mind, someone will nudge you towards the answers.

Best of Luck!

[Makkin]

Hello,


  I took a winter tour with "Jack".

[Turboguy]

Turboguy and others have used his services him so you can check with them and get it straight.

Before I give my comments on Jack's Tours let me say that prior to my son and myself going on one of Jack's tours I had gone on 3 big agency tours.  Although a few guys do meet good women on the big agency tours, I would never recommend them.  Just as there are good agencies and bad agencies there are good and bad tours and Jack's are quite good.

There is a full TR on the tour my son and I went on with Jack here if you care to search for it.   Jack's tours are very different that those conducted by the big agencies.  Jack knows his stuff and the education alone is worth the price of admission.  I had made lots and lots of trips before the tour with Jack, and had been an active member here for a long time but I still learned a lot from Jack. 

Personally, I think anyone could benefit from going on one of Jack's tours but I think for a first trip to the FSU and even more so for someone who has not traveled overseas a lot Jack's tour is a great choice.

Now onto cities.   Before I start this one of my observations from Jack's tour was that cities I liked and did well in were different for some of the other guys so there are no firm rules.  I would say two cities to avoid are Kiev and Odessa.  I have had some good results in Kiev but your time would be better spent elsewhere.   My best cities on Jack's tour were Kharkov and Zap.  Lugansk was also very good despite the horror stories you may hear about it.  Dneprer was a cool city to visit and one of the nicer cities in the FSU I have been to.  I met a lot of great ladies there but none I would consider a keeper.  Personally, other than the two I said to avoid all the cities are good.

[joey]

thanks e everyone for your input. i did a tour a long long time ago, and was not impressed with it, one day in each city, meet a lot of women at one time, was confusing, and when i did actually meet one or 2 girls i liked, i didn't have sufficient time to get to know them because we were off to the next city. was nice to be with other men who were there for the same reason, but at the same time, we had 2 good looking guys who were in their 30's who could get many many girls in any country.  i have no idea why these 2 guys were even there, but all the girls liked them, so was kind of a waste at the same time, because all the girls migrated towards these two guys. some of the other members were a little  bent about it.

 i remember one young girl in particular, i was standing outside the disco, she was sad and crying, seemed like she was there with her mother, i asked one of the translators, what was the girl crying about. i guess she was from a very poor family, father was dead, mother didn't any $$$ so her mother brought her to the meeting to hopefully meet a foreigner, so her daughter could have  a better life, but this girl was too young, maybe 17, scared, frightened etc. i almost started cryting myself, watching this take place. felt really bad, gave the mother some $$$ that i could spare to give her and had the translator tell her to go home, her daughter was too young for these men.


so, as for as cities, was thinking about Zaporozhye and Lugansk, 2 smaller cities, but my other concern is, is it better to go on another tour, or just go to each city for a week each and hope i meet a girl through an agency, biggest problem is finding  good agencies. don't mind spending $$$ if the agency is good and the girls are honest and sincere. i have learned that first dream, has  a good rep, from what my friend on another board told me, and jack has been very good at responding to my e mails and my many many stupid questions, which I'm sure he gets a lot of.

so that's my dilemma, like  the service of first dream, and jacks experience, but not a big fan of tours. any advice?

thanks all

[Patagonie]

I don't have any experience of tour. With a good one it seems interesting. About cities in Ukraine i can advice, like Kievstar, to avoid Kiev, and for the same reason Odessa. There are many girls not clear (prostitute, pro-daters, expecting "M Jordan"), even on EM, in Kiev and around. Kharkov is well balanced city, cheaper, more beautiful than Kiev and as it is a big city too there are a lot of women.
About strategy, if you make this tour you need te prepare a second trip within two months to meet again the dates you liked. But the problem is : if you enjoy three girls : one in Lviv, one in Odessa and one in Donetsk ...  So choice the city you will fall over heels 

[groovlstk]

so, as for as cities, was thinking about Zaporozhye and Lugansk, 2 smaller cities, but my other concern is, is it better to go on another tour, or just go to each city for a week each and hope i meet a girl through an agency, biggest problem is finding  good agencies.

Why do you feel the need to use agencies? You have many other options, branch out and diversify.

[Turboguy]

Jack does his tours a little differently.   I was on three of European Connections tours which were similar to the AFA tours.   One of the pluses for EC when they did them was you had your own terp full time.  With AFA from what I understand you grab one when you need her. 

One of the biggest disadvantages of the AFA/EC/AW style of tour is that they promote the tours in newspapers, on signs on telephone poles and signs on the sidewalks of town.  Everyone can come and it does not take long for the scammers to figure out that many of these guys are brand new and a little naive and you get a lot of scammers.   

The other disadvantage is the big agency tours were like a meat market.  The guys had their own table with their terp and the gals all stood around the outside.  You would spot a girl you wanted to talk to and send your terp to go get her and then you would find another.   The hot girls were always at a table and some nice fairly attractive and very sincere ladies would not get to talk to anyone. 

With Jacks there are big tables with one man and his terp and 6-8 ladies.  Every man meets every lady.  You sit and talk to those 6-8 ladies for 15 minutes then you move to the next table and do so until you have met every woman there.  You let your terp know which were of interest and after the table session you talk to them individually.   No one ever stands around with no one to talk to.  No woman comes and never gets a shot.   When the parties are not going on you are meeting individual ladies you have contacted in advance or arranged through one of the three or so agencies Jack works with in that city.   You meet a lot of really nice women, far more than you would meet on your own.

[ECOCKS]

Joey:

I have a buddy in Zap who seems to be happy enough and know another guy who had a Lugansk girlfriend who seemed to always have a story involving violence and crime. Both cities are industrialized towns and a bit more dirty and polluted than the norm but are certainly livable. Of the two, I have heard better things about Zap than Lugansk. Also, Zap has a bit of history if you want to see a little of the country's background. Check into the sich museum.

If you're picking these then get on some of the large sites and begin your searching. define how large a pool of women you can see and get your contacts going. Don't let yourself be rushed into the trip though, better to be prepared and knowledgeable rather than setting yourself up to be fleeced or brokenhearted.

Good luck.

[Turboguy]

Zap reminded me of Pittsburgh in the 1960's.  I could look out my hotel window and watch enormous plumes of smoke pouring into the air from the mills.  There is a long curving bridge at one end of Zap.  One lady walked me out onto it.  Being on bridges never bothered me but that one moved about a foot every time a car or truck passed.  I was very glad to leave the bridge. 

Neither Zap or Lugansk impressed me as being anything except a typical city.  We did Dneper on the trip and I thought it was the nicest city I had been to in the FSU.  I actually recall wondering why anyone would want to leave it.

[kievstar]

Joey, many good looking successful guys in there 30's are in Ukraine looking for women.  I have seen many in Kiev and a number in Kharkov as well. Need to date in your league.  If your a 50 year old man with normal looks and average income your not going to grab the hot chicks under 30 and stay married long.  I have seen with my own eyes several current American born NBA players dating women in Kiev. 

Lugansk is a dirty nasty city but the women there are gorgeous.  Just sit in the domestic terminal in Kiev (non summer months) and you will notice the best looking gold diggers are going to Luganks.  Arms loaded with the most expensive clothes from their boyfriends or sponsors while they toured Kiev. 

Not much to do in Luganks for tourism.  Good eye candy there.   

[Turboguy]

I think the two cities you are talking about would be good choices.  Lots of guys avoid Lugansk because of it's reputation with scams.  There are a few good agencies there and lots of sincere women so it really means that you have less competion.  Zap also doesn't seem to be a hot spot for guys to chose as a destination.  They seem to prefer Odessa and come back disappointed.  Zap was my best city on Jack's tour. Whatever you do good luck. 

Jack is really good at supporting you and will even give you a lot of individual help.  His groups are small enough that you are not lost in the crowd.  When I did mine since I was a little older than the others he had some special programs set up just for me which is something other tours would not even think about.

[joey]

quote
Joey, many good looking successful guys in there 30's are in Ukraine looking for women.  I have seen many in Kiev and a number in Kharkov as well. Need to date in your league.  If your a 50 year old man with normal looks and average income your not going to grab the hot chicks under 30 and stay married long.  I have seen with my own eyes several current American born NBA players dating women in Kiev. 

Lugansk is a dirty nasty city but the women there are gorgeous.  Just sit in the domestic terminal in Kiev (non summer months) and you will notice the best looking gold diggers are going to Luganks.  Arms loaded with the most expensive clothes from their boyfriends or sponsors while they toured Kiev. 

Not much to do in Luganks for tourism.  Good eye candy there.


yep, doenst sound like too good of a prospect place to look for a normal serious girl.

been going through websites, dating sites in Ukraine, same girls on many different sites, already some girls asking for $$$ in the first few letters. some even use the same generic letter in different places.  some agencies are really terrible, a few OK, i can see this is going to take some time, not that I'm in a hurry, but i can see why men get tired and burned out fast, even in the  smaller cities.

[Bruce]

If you have never been over for sure going over with Jack would be a good start.   Even if you have been over without luck its probably worth giving Jack's tour a throw.   What have you to lose except some money - big deal.   So many guys just sit on their duff and dream or write letters for years.   Get your bum on a plane sooner than later.   I was in Kiev and Kharkov once.   I liked them both - Kiev for the historical sites and culture, Kharkov for its beautiful square and much lower cost than Kiev.   For women, tons of beautiful ones in each city.   I would recommend Kharkov over Kiev looking for women, but suggest you listen to the advice above you have gotten from the Ukraine experts.   Turbo recommends Jack's tour and he did a lot of things, really exhausted many methods prior to finding his wife, so for sure his advice is extremely experienced, based upon real experience trying many methods.   Write less, meet real women more.   Get on the plane..............................

[joey]

thanks all for all the advice. after a few weeks of looking, its amazing how many beautiful women are in Kiev and Odessa, even though it seems like  that's where all the players are, the sheer numbers of beautiful women there is incredible.  if you could find a good,  honest agency in these two cities, you could do well

[Stirlitz]

Yes, there are quite a few in Kiev and Odessa but Kiev is best avoided because it is very expensive…