New questions

[rwoo1983]

Sorry to post this.  I didn't know where else to post. 

I keep hearing people here making comments about "dating out of your league"  What does that mean exactly?  Is it money, looks, education, intelligence, personality?

Another question.  What is the deal with agency scams?  I have some experience with Anastasia as that was the first agency I ever saw while looking online.  It was a nightmare and a mistake, but in a way it was my fault.

Where's a good place to meet FSU women online, other than agencies?  It seems to me that Mamba is not very user friendly, plus is packed with "celebrities" trying to hook up.  Or women offering their services for money.  My thoughts about scouring the web for FSU women at Russian sites is that probably they are not interested in meeting westerners.

I was in Korea in 2003 and I was "involved" with Russian women.  Ever since that day I have been interested in Slavic women.  IDK why.  Your insights would be greatly welcome.

Hello!
Try these two dating websites:  

Dating:  http://www.dating.ru
LovePlanet:  http://www.loveplanet.ru

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors!
rwoo1983

[Doll]

poor bastards

[JR]

Thats funny stuff right there

It's funny until you consider that I met an AM in SVO on his way to Dubai to meet a RW whom he'd known for about two months and never met. We talked...met him in SVO on the way back, he got married....I wished him the best.

[Lily]

And also wealthy, successful people can get really good looking mates.  It depends on what you want and willing to put up with.  I have met some older or plain looking men with stunning or younger wives and they have been married for years.  That's why I was wondering if Russian ladies had a different view.

You want a Russian woman's view on it? Here you go. I want a man who is my equal, in may senses, and whom I could successfully complement in life. This way, we both win!

[Handycam72]

This "Out of your league" thing has always had me a little confused.

Looks.
It can be said that a guy will not chat to a very physically attractive women because they will claim "she is out my league",  or even think that a relationship wouldn't be possible, question is WHY? How can you say just because someone takes great care in the way they look, that somehow, you are not worthy of even talking to them or even having a relationship. Why feel intimidated by their appearance, admitting defeat. Would it be that the opinion you have of yourself, and how you view yourself physically could be what makes you think an attractive person could be out of your league. Could it simply be a lacking of self confidence in your own attractiveness. If it is, maybe try and face that insecurity head on and learn to like what you have. Confidence in our own appearance is attractive in its self IMO. In the end I believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Which brings me on to the the idea that some have on here of using a scoring system on a women's beauty, which to be honest is a total BS idea.

Money.
You have an average income and you find yourself attracted to someone with an above average or very high income and is  wealthy or the other way round if you like (Wealthy attracted to an average income). This could be decided by how you view money in your life, is it something that is important to you. If your wealthy, do you view it as the by product of your achievements, thus in your view it gives you the freedom to do what you want but its not the be all and end all of your life or are you the type that thinks everything evolves around it and you enjoy making sure everyone knows it with the flash cars and expensive yachts and clothes but don't want anyone else near it for fear of losing it. If your the average earner, is your viewpoint one of which is money does not bring happiness and don't really care for it, well maybe the first person is the one for you, but if you went for the second, the flash one, it would not last, so are you out of your league or just not compatible?

Education/Intelligence
There are those who have a certain snobbery in connection to education. There are those that believe if they have University Degree or more they are somehow better than those that went to the University of Life so therefore will not even want to know such people. Now going to University does not prove your more intelligent than those who chose a different path. Also there are those that feel that people who went to University are somehow better than themselves so use the "out of my league" as so to avoid them. Now someone who has the IQ of a slug is not going to have much in common with someone who is in Mensa. The slug will just feel very inadequate next to the person in Mensa and the the person from Mensa will feel frustrated.

Personality.
Now I'm trying to think of how someone would use the term "out of your league" when it comes to personality. IMO your personalities will click or they won't.

In fact I think this list could go on and on.

In the end isn't "out of your league" and "just not compatible" one in the same thing?

Is it not the case we are looking (or have found, not forgetting the happily married people out there) for that one person who we see as our equal, who makes us feel complete. To be with a person who makes us feel good at being ourselves without question and in the process grows with us, not just in age and physically, but emotionally and spiritually. Our Compatible Other, Our Equal.
Lily I think just repeated some of what you said there

[edu]

This "Out of your league" thing has always had me a little confused.

Looks.
It can be said that a guy will not chat to a very physically attractive women because they will claim "she is out my league",  or even think that a relationship wouldn't be possible, question is WHY? How can you say just because someone takes great care in the way they look, that somehow, you are not worthy of even talking to them or even having a relationship. Why feel intimidated by their appearance, admitting defeat. Would it be that the opinion you have of yourself, and how you view yourself physically could be what makes you think an attractive person could be out of your league. Could it simply be a lacking of self confidence in your own attractiveness. If it is, maybe try and face that insecurity head on and learn to like what you have. Confidence in our own appearance is attractive in its self IMO. In the end I believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Which brings me on to the the idea that some have on here of using a scoring system on a women's beauty, which to be honest is a total BS idea.

Money.
You have an average income and you find yourself attracted to someone with an above average or very high income and is  wealthy or the other way round if you like (Wealthy attracted to an average income). This could be decided by how you view money in your life, is it something that is important to you. If your wealthy, do you view it as the by product of your achievements, thus in your view it gives you the freedom to do what you want but its not the be all and end all of your life or are you the type that thinks everything evolves around it and you enjoy making sure everyone knows it with the flash cars and expensive yachts and clothes but don't want anyone else near it for fear of losing it. If your the average earner, is your viewpoint one of which is money does not bring happiness and don't really care for it, well maybe the first person is the one for you, but if you went for the second, the flash one, it would not last, so are you out of your league or just not compatible?

Education/Intelligence
There are those who have a certain snobbery in connection to education. There are those that believe if they have University Degree or more they are somehow better than those that went to the University of Life so therefore will not even want to know such people. Now going to University does not prove your more intelligent than those who chose a different path. Also there are those that feel that people who went to University are somehow better than themselves so use the "out of my league" as so to avoid them. Now someone who has the IQ of a slug is not going to have much in common with someone who is in Mensa. The slug will just feel very inadequate next to the person in Mensa and the the person from Mensa will feel frustrated.

Personality.
Now I'm trying to think of how someone would use the term "out of your league" when it comes to personality. IMO your personalities will click or they won't.

In fact I think this list could go on and on.

In the end isn't "out of your league" and "just not compatible" one in the same thing?

Is it not the case we are looking (or have found, not forgetting the happily married people out there) for that one person who we see as our equal, who makes us feel complete. To be with a person who makes us feel good at being ourselves without question and in the process grows with us, not just in age and physically, but emotionally and spiritually. Our Compatible Other, Our Equal.
Lily I think just repeated some of what you said there

Handy,

I was confused, too.  That's why I asked.  I think compatibility and league could be two different things. You can be compatible with her, but as someone once said, it's always about the bigger better deal.

[edu]

 A perfect (and quite real) example:
A good friend married a woman, spent 6 years together.  During this time she worked on, and completed, her PhD.  Everything seemed fine.  They had a child.  About 6 months after the child was born she landed her first full-time position.  They moved.  He took a mediocre job because that was the only choice.  He moved for her career.
60 days after moving, she kicks him out and gets a restraining order, claiming he threatened her and the child.  Takes him months to clear his name.  He winds up with nothing but a sledgehammered heart and a mediocre job, living in an apartment while she got the house, the better paying job, and child support.  
This was an AW.  

Hopefully an exception.  
But trust me, this guy is not stupid.  She crafted this from the outset, but would deny it to her grave.  
This guy was SURE he knew her.  They certainly seemed "within each other's league," at least as far as I could tell.

I don't know.  I've been burned by an AW, but not that severely.  So one doesn't have to leave the country to get tragically damaged.  

I am not saying that your busy is stupid.  But maybe he gave up too quickly or had a bad attorney/ or none at all.  I was married when I was in the military.  We were both lower enlisted and we both wanted to separate.  We decided that I would re-enlist for 4 more years while she went to college. I supported her on a E-3/E-4 pay and finally she finished school and became an officer.  At some point, she decided to be serious about her career and I was served with divorced papers.  We were fighting over the house, that I had paid for it mostly.  My attorney made her feel like the worst human being on earth and, even the female judge believed it. How she used me and dumped me when she no longer needed me.  The judge told her she gave women a bad name and my ex was crying outside the court.

Anyway, long story short.  The court awarded me alimony, plus the bigger portion of her flight bonus.  This alimony payment was higher than one paycheck as an NCO and it lasted for a few years. 

I've learned some things about divorce law during that process.  Society is changing. Women now are more likely to get out and have good jobs.  Most of the business students now in college are women and more and more women now hold leadership positions.  So, men have to fight back and not just bend over and take it anymore.  Eventually women will feel the same way most men feel today.

[Misha]

To be with a person who makes us feel good at being ourselves without question and in the process grows with us, not just in age and physically, but emotionally and spiritually. Our Compatible Other, Our Equal.

I agree with you, but just as long as we keep in mind that everything you say applies to her as well. You must make her feel good at being herself and she must feel that she grows with you. She must feel that she is compatible with you. She must feel that you are worthy. As I have noted throughout, there must be love in the marriage. If there is not love and she feels that she could grow better with someone other than you, if she feels that you are not her equal, then it is not likely the marriage will last. The more attractive she is, the easier that it will be for her to find other options or at the very least to think that she has many options.

Here is an example that I knew personally. I knew a very attractive RW married to a much older man, not very attractive where there was no love and no respect. What did she do? She left him for a much younger, much more more attractive man that she had fallen in love with. The younger man had less money, she had to go work at some fast food joint, but she still left for the younger, more attractive man, the man that she thought she could grow with and the man that she believed was compatible with her.

Dating and marrying a woman out of your league is the easy part, maintaining the marriage when  you are back home is the hard part. One just has to read some of the accounts written here to understand this.

Should a man therefore seek to date only women that are less attractive with fewer positive quality? No, but men should be realistic and they should understand their future wives, their goals, their dreams their personalities, their motivations and most importantly they must understand if she has fallen in love with them and whether they are compatible enough for that to grow into lasting love.

[Daveman]

Handy,

I was confused, too.  That's why I asked.  I think compatibility and league could be two different things. You can be compatible with her, but as someone once said, it's always about the bigger better deal.

League and compatibility are probably a little different. My take is that compatibility is a subset of league.  League is also highly subjective, similar to the numeric system we guys use to rate a woman's looks.  "She's a 10", or whatever.   A 10 for you might be a 7 for me, and my 10's could be 3's for you.  You could be a 7 in one woman's eyes and a 9.6488396582 to another.  "League" is more of some kind of label of measuring some form of relation between A and B, whereas compatibility is the absolute most important factor for the long haul.  It's the foundation of lasting love as it is food for real friendship.  Anyone can fall in love with a wrong person under a variety of circumstances, but without compatibility that love will most likely die because you won't really like and enjoy each other (outside the bedroom anyway). 

Read all of Misha's posts in this thread again. The formula is pretty simple... take the time to know a woman, try to find real compatibility, win her heart, fall in love, all that happy horseypoop and your chances of being taken for a ride, or crawling out of the debris of a train wreck diminish. 

[kievstar]

Looks is a small portion of dating in your league.  Need to look at your personal behavior, income level, age, family orientation, education, profession level, etc.

It is not not a simple formula. Depends on the woman and man involved.

Lilly had the perfect answer IMHO.

I really want to live in Ukraine and thus married a Ukraine woman.  Wife really does not want me to hangout with rich RM and she hates how her very beautiful friends who married rich RM in Ukraine and Russia live - so were not going to be living in Ukraine.  My wife has dated and lived with very rich RM before.  She really does not like how rich RM and their RW accept the man has many women and the RW puts up with it.  So for my wife a RM was not in her league unless average income, model like looks, and good family behavior. RM are not very beautiful.

My wife stumbled into me while helping out her friends who run an agency.  She never wanted a foreign man.  In her eyes me being a former model with no children and good profession job title was perfect.  Plus small age difference.  She does not want a grandfather raising her kids.  A rich man with average looks would not have gone far with my wife.

My wife works as a model in the USA and the men and women are all over her.  I have a lot of confidence which also helps having a bigger league.  That being said her mother and friends think my wife got a good catch.  At least that is what they tell me.  No league issues here.


  

[kievstar]

I have dated other RW in Kiev that I knew there were league issues and it was not income or looks.  I do not get along with women who are book orientated.  They can have several advanced degrees but if there into opera, ballet, art galleries, - not going to work between us in a marriage.

So there is an interest level portion of dating in your league.  You can date women out of your league but longterm marriage is different.  But having children guys is a way to make the out of league work sometimes.

Someone mentioned why go to Russia if you can not marry out of your league.  With this attitude you must like being in plane crashes as well.

[Misha]

That being said her mother and friends think my wife got a good catch.  At least that is what they tell me.  No league issues here.

This is important. The ideal for any man: his wife should think her husband was a good catch as well as all her friends and family. You don't want to be the man she settled for nor do you want her thinking that she could have found a much better man if she had been living in your country 

[edu]

I have dated other RW in Kiev that I knew there were league issues and it was not income or looks.  I do not get along with women who are book orientated.  They can have several advanced degrees but if there into opera, ballet, art galleries, - not going to work between us in a marriage.

So there is an interest level portion of dating in your league.  You can date women out of your league but longterm marriage is different.  But having children guys is a way to make the out of league work sometimes.

Someone mentioned why go to Russia if you can not marry out of your league.  With this attitude you must like being in plane crashes as well.

OK,

I am confused now.  If I make six figures and the FSU woman does not.  Would that make me out of her league? Or what if she is poor but she wants a millionaire instead.  Is she out of my league?

Did you marry out of your league?

When we have to be able to weed out the gold diggers or the green card seekers before they arrive in the USA.  Other than that, if a really hot girl decides to marry me, then we both know she could have done better, yet she chose me. If I decide to marry some FSU woman, I know I could have chosen someone who makes as much as me.

[edu]

Hello!
Try these two dating websites:  

Dating:  http://www.dating.ru
LovePlanet:  http://www.loveplanet.ru

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors!
rwoo1983

Do you have a strategy for those sites?  I have been propositioned by Anna Kournikova.  Some 16 yr old in Russia offered to send me pics of herself doing things for a price.  I've seen 3 different profiles with the same picture (diff age, location and name).  Mamba can be just as annoying as Anastasia

[zague17]

Do you have a strategy for those sites?  I have been propositioned by Anna Kournikova.  Some 16 yr old in Russia offered to send me pics of herself doing things for a price.  I've seen 3 different profiles with the same picture (diff age, location and name).  Mamba can be just as annoying as Anastasia

What'sup with Anastasia.  I've started this a couple of months ago and I have some prospects.

[Misha]

Do you have a strategy for those sites? 

Ignore the women who write you and are obviously fake, look for women with nice but typical everyday photos and only write to women looking for love and a long-term relationship/marriage. It is not that hard.

[edu]

What'sup with Anastasia.  I've started this a couple of months ago and I have some prospects.

You could be hearing a number of things here or in some internet sites.  I don't know the whole deal with them.  I did have a bad experience, but in a way that was mine.  I was talking to a girl for a long time and one day she told me she was dating someone and could not talk to me.  She closed her account.  And then some other girls seem that they are just writing "one size fits all" letters for people.  

If you deal with Anastasia, then I suggest before you blow a small fortune with them, you start making arrangements to visit the country sooner than later.  That's the only way you will find out for real if that girl does exist.  If she starts giving you excuses for not meeting you, then move on.  Either she is dishonest, lazy or not committed to you.

[Blues Fairy]

Ignore the women who write you

 :seething:

[GQBlues]

The question then becomes, regardless of age, looks, education, etc., how does one know when she is "for real?" And I do not mean strictly FSU women.  Women in general.  
The obvious ones are easily weeded out. Even the not-so-obvious ones can be eliminated.  
But there are a fair number (IMO) that are not so easily analyzed. And of course, one can become overly paranoid and destroy an otherwise perfectly viable relationship by being suspicious of a woman's motives.  So where is the middle ground?.........I have been cautious bordering on paranoid.  Even after a fair amount of experience, I STILL don't know, but am trying to move forward without thinking about this, or Maxx, or the other poor bastards who got taken to the cleaners financially, emotionally, and in every other way imaginable.  

And women wonder why men are afraid of commitment.  

IMO, inherently marrying a FSUW only aggravate that scenario because of the added complexity of marrying someone outside of your culture. Marrying the devil you know or marry the devil you don't. Find your comfort. You can't get tied up in knots over things you have no control of or you'll find yourself eternally home alone or catering to someone despite of yourself because of fears of her leaving you (in general not specifically you). You've defeated yourself before you gave yourself a chance.

Most of the things one reads here is akin to situations many have of us had seen countless times before. An example, I use to go out with my troops out on the prowl. It doesn't matter where we find ourselves in, you'll see the same scenario unfold - guys start to discuss things about a woman of interest even BEFORE anyone of them have a chance to meet her, let alone get to know her. "Nah, she's high maintenance!; she looks like a bitch; you can never trust her!, yada, yada, yada...". You know the kind, the guys standing in the corner sucking on their beers, guys standing around striking a pose, or guys simply making a fool of themselves trying to draw attention to themselves at any cost.

Get an attitude of self worth regardless of your status, appearance, or place in a society. Become someone apart from the herd. No offense to anyone here, but read what many posts/advice one readily gets here? Don't date/marry someone out of your league - that's a defeatist attitude. What league, whose league? Theirs or yours? These guys will likely be the ones splicing and dicing every freaking aspects of relating to women. You think Russian men pre-occupy themselves with silly leagues?

Most AMs have been traumatized, feminized, whipped and wussified. They're not hard to miss, they'll be the ones on every corner discussing/rationalizing/giving advice amongst themselves how to date/relate to women until it's time to go home - alone.

Believe in yourself. Don't jump in the water if you don't know how to swim. Learn the walk before the talk and you'll be fine. It won't work the other way around. There's no woman in this world who'll find worth in you if you can't find it in yourself . Value you if you find no value in yourself. Any woman in love will trek to the ends of the world for you - so give her every darn reason to be IN LOVE WITH YOU.

It's never what you can do for her, it is simply what you do and who you are.

[Daveman]

IMO, inherently marrying a FSUW only aggravate that scenario because of the added complexity of marrying someone outside of your culture. Marrying the devil you know or marry the devil you don't. Find your comfort. You can't get tied up in knots over things you have no control of or you'll find yourself eternally home alone or catering to someone despite of yourself because of fears of her leaving you (in general not specifically you). You've defeated yourself before you gave yourself a chance.

Most of the things one reads here is akin to situations many have of us had seen countless times before. An example, I use to go out with my troops out on the prowl. It doesn't matter where we find ourselves in, you'll see the same scenario unfold - guys start to discuss things about a woman of interest even BEFORE anyone of them have a chance to meet her, let alone get to know her. "Nah, she's high maintenance!; she looks like a bitch; you can never trust her!, yada, yada, yada...". You know the kind, the guys standing in the corner sucking on their beers, guys standing around striking a pose, or guys simply making a fool of themselves trying to draw attention to themselves at any cost.

Get an attitude of self worth regardless of your status, appearance, or place in a society. Become someone apart from the herd....


Believe in yourself. Don't jump in the water if you don't know how to swim. Learn the walk before the talk and you'll be fine. It won't work the other way around. There's no woman in this world who'll find worth in you if you can't find it in yourself . Value you if you find no value in yourself. Any woman in love will trek to the ends of the world for you - so give her every darn reason to be IN LOVE WITH YOU.

It's never what you can do for her, it is simply what you do and who you are.

Just deserved repeating. 

[Lily]

Interesting read by Vladimir Basun, Sexual Market

http://www.basun.ru/7.htm

sorry Russian only but you can try some good side of online translators

[BillyB]

So, if one can't date out of your league, then what's the point of going to Russian women?

Dating out of your league is risky for both men and women because the relationship probably wouldn't last, especially when she gets old and loses her beauty and he dumps her and looks for youth or he has financial problems and she leaves for greener pastures.

It's normal human behavior to seek out the best mate and there are various qualities that each of us as individuals tend to value. Hopefully when people get hooked up, they feel their partner is a good catch and not necessarily dating out of their league.

I don't advertise money and materialistic things and I don't attract women who's attracted to money compared to other men. I do attract enough women based on my other qualities. If a woman is attracted to me physically and gives me enough correspondence time, she will see that I'm a decent guy and well rounded person mentally.

I've asked a few RW what reasons they are interested in me especially when I felt there were some huge differences and barrier. Most say they find me intelligent and interesting. One RW 12 cm taller than I and half my age told me that. I asked her if she was afraid to go out with a shorter man. She said she prefered taller men but not afraid to go out with me.  Although I'm not the ideal age requirement or height for some RW, I easily beat younger men based in intellect and quality correspondence. I've dated beautiful RW but I never felt I've dated out of my league. I think if a man feels he's dating out of his league, his RW will sense it and he'll get ran over pretty fast. It's not a good feeling for a man or woman to be dating a person lesser quality than themselves. The only reason for a person to be in a relationship like that is to use the person of lesser quality for selfish reasons.

[Misha]

:seething:

You should have cited the full sentence: Ignore the women who write you AND ARE OBVIOUSLY FAKE. Clearly, if a woman writes and it is evident that she is not real, why would you write her? The OP was complaining that the women who were writing were "actresses" etc...

[I/O]

I have been interested in Slavic women.  IDK why.

Figure that out and the rest is pretty simple.

[RussianWind]

It's funny until you consider that I met an AM in SVO on his way to Dubai to meet a RW whom he'd known for about two months and never met. We talked...met him in SVO on the way back, he got married....I wished him the best.

When will we hear your Visit Family story and how you managed to escape without your passport and money? Seems you had a real adventure this time... say Tashkent is cooler than Kiev, isn't it