Visa Free talks begin

[kievstar]

I am good with ugly American.  Even Canada has its ugly Quebec province.  Everybody has its own red headed step child. 

[UTRO]

I am good with ugly American.  Even Canada has its ugly Quebec province.  Everybody has its own red headed step child. 

Dude, I was born and raised in Quebec and yet I Love my country Canada as you Love your America. Don't go callin' a society 'dogs' man

[Gylden]

Kievstar,
I hope you don't heat with gas, because if you do and your job is what you say it is, you must be sleeping. Have you been paying attention to the new gas developments in Canada?

[wiz]

Ukraine maybe a poor country however it does provide steel and agriculture at a very good rate.  It also is one of the leaders in engineering around military products. Very good with IT needs.

Ukraine does not sell steel to the EU countries......they have enough capacity so they are closing down some of it!
Selling arms to whoever pays, it appears to be the main source of foreign income but it can not sell the Low lever, (useful to the Europeans) warning Radar, developed in Zaporotze, because  the Russians are in control!

As about agriculture I refer you to my previous comments!

Ukraine also has 45 million people and many like to buy the expensive EU products.

I told you they do not have the money to buy the good expensive products!

Does the EU need Ukraine - not really.  
Does Ukraine need the EU - not really.  

Does Ukraine need either the EU or Russia - yes they do.  
What are you talking about?
Contradicting your self and want the cake and eat it?

Russia would be a better choice for them unless the EU becomes more civil towards them.  Ukraine to the EU is like how USA treats its dog - Canada.  No offense to Canada but Canada needs the USA and USA does not need Canada. Canadians may not like this but who really buys Canadian products? Which country invests in Canada?

I work for a company now that provides energy accessories so I know where the oil and gas booms are going to be next 10-15 years.  Surprising much of the EU energy needs maybe coming from Africa if Asia does not take all of it.  EU may not need Russia or Ukraine.

With your above comments and also with your (subquent) statements about Canada, it is pretty obvious you have not a clue or any idea of what is going on, regarding Geopolitical and energy considerations and your credibility as a serious poster is non existent!

I am good with ugly American.

A true statement by you ...... and that is as far as it goes your knowledge and attitude!

[wiz]

What do the visits of Russian officials have to do with the lifting of Ukrainian nationals?

I never posted otherwise.  However, Ukraine does, in fact, have outstanding agricultural products.

The point was, the market was closed until the EU asked for "talks".  Once the EU dumped their products into Ukraine, the "talks" went nowhere.

The Russian population of Ukraine is far lower than 50%.  How many speak Russian is irrelevant.  Most Ukrainians in Western Ukraine, educated in the USSR, speak Russian.  But they have never voted for closer ties with Russia.

Did I ever post that?

I do hope Ukraine reimposes visa requirements.  Women are human beings.  I didn't realize they were a commodity to be exported.

Just for your information I know Western Ukraine and especially I love Lviv and my comments were objective towards Ukraine and the Ukrainians.

Obviously you did not understand my comments or the economical and geopolitical energy considerations that have to be taken into account regarding free visa movements for Ukrainians.

If Ukraine suspend or revoke the free visa regime it will harm Ukraine economically and not the EU countries and will not give Ukraine any leverage in their dealings with the EU.

I was not disrespectful towards Ukrainian women but these are the obvious facts today! 

Please read my comments more carefully, without been emotional, and you will understand my tone and objective comments better! Thank you!

[Gylden]

Wiz,

About farm land in Ukraine, it is still not a sure bet for foreign investment, see the following taken from a web site:   http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a1e6f8c2-a26e-491f-9eaf-e31845fd3049

Restrictions on the Foreign Ownership of Agricultural Land in Ukraine

Non-agricultural land may be purchased by non-residents of Ukraine only if the land is located within the formal boundaries of a settlement or if the land lies under an existing construction that is acquired by such non-resident. The acquisition of agricultural land by non-citizens is strictly prohibited by the 2004 Land Code. In addition, an official moratorium (imposed by parliament) exists on the sale and purchase of certain agricultural land by anyone.

Notwithstanding the current prohibition on the acquisition of land under Ukraine’s law, some non-residents acquire land by creating corporate structures that may allow them to conduct a lawful land transfer. Such practice includes the use of a questionable two-tier corporate structure; it is not clear that such a practice is failsafe. Theoretically, Ukraine’s authorities may challenge the use of such twotier structures. Such an imperfect and ambiguous practice may be viewed as quite risky and raise questions about whether a project structured in such a manner is “bankable.”

As far as steel, here in Norway we are buying plenty of steel from Ukraine for use in the ship building industry. In 2009 Ukraine was still the 4th largest steel exporter in the world.

[kievstar]

Wiz, Vallourec buys steel from Ukraine and it is a French based steel company.  Do you know what a pup joint, thread matterial, and connection devices are?  Try learning about the energy and steel business first.  Wiz, when was the last time you have been physically in Ukraine? Have you worked in the steel industry - have you ever been in a steel facility in Ukraine?

Do not kid youself the EU sells a ton of refrigerators, washers, stoves, microwaves ,and furniture in Ukraine from Czech and Polish companies.  They sell perfume and clothes as well.  Billions of dollars are sold in Ukraine from the EU.

Do you know what either and or mean - Ukraine needs Russia not the EU. 

Regarding Canada do you really think everybody in the USA loves Canada?  please.  Many do as well.

Before you retired what did you do for work?

[kievstar]

Per the EU and notice steel and trade imbalance:

Trade in goods
EU exports to Ukraine 2008: €25.14 billion
EU imports from Ukraine 2008: €14.36 billion
Ukraine 's primary exports to the EU are agricultural products, energy, chemicals, iron, and steel. EU exports to Ukraine are dominated by machinery, transport equipment, chemicals, textile and clothing, and agricultural products.

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/creating-opportunities/bilateral-relations/countries/ukraine/index_en.htm

[Boethius]

Just for your information I know Western Ukraine and especially I love Lviv and my comments were objective towards Ukraine and the Ukrainians.

Obviously you did not understand my comments or the economical and geopolitical energy considerations that have to be taken into account regarding free visa movements for Ukrainians.

No, obviously I don't.  Wiz, almost everyone on this forum is aware of the considerations, and the reasons why visas are not granted.  

If Ukraine suspend or revoke the free visa regime it will harm Ukraine economically and not the EU countries and will not give Ukraine any leverage in their dealings with the EU.  I was not disrespectful towards Ukrainian women but these are the obvious facts today!  .

See kiev's link on the trade imbalance.  You will note it favours the EU.  

There is an article in the Ukrainian press today on visa free travel to Ukraine, and how the main beneficiaries are (predominantly European) sex tourists, and the criminals who benefit therefrom.  Almost all that activity is in two cities - Kyiv and Odesa.

The amount of cash tourists spend in Ukraine would not change signficantly were a visa regime imposed.  Reducing sex tourism would not be a bad thing, particularly since a lot of that cash ends up in the hands of criminals.  However, if visas were reimposed, it likely would be after Euro 2012.

Please read my comments more carefully, without been emotional, and you will understand my tone and objective comments better! Thank you!

I was not emotional at your suggestion that women marrying foreigners is the best "export" of Ukraine.  But it demonstrates a lack of knowledge of Ukraine in general.

Incidentally, as an addendum to Gylden's post, German agricorps are leasing farmland in Ukraine, and are growing crops there which make their way back to the EU.  As noted, they are restricted from purchasing land, but they can lease it.  

[SANDRO43]

There is an article in the Ukrainian press today on visa free travel to Ukraine, and how the main beneficiaries are (predominanlty European) sex tourists and the criminals who benefit therefrom.

Just wondering, would a visa actually deter "predominanlty European sex tourists and criminals" from going to Ukraine ?

[Boethius]

Corrected the typo.

I do think there would be less sex tourism if a visa system were introduced.  It would not disappear, of course, but it would decrease.  Criminals (including local police) all receive a cut of the proceeds, so the more they "hurt", the better.

[wiz]

Gylden

Of course I don’t know the legal frame under which these foreign companies have taken over huge parts of agriculture land in Ukraine but having watched a BBC documentary it is pretty obvious that their products are exported to the EU market.

Boethius

You obviously think that revoking the free visa regime by Ukraine is a good thing….. but as you say the sex tourists will not stop going to Ukraine neither prostitution will stop there either but as far as I know Sex tourists are not the only people that travel to Ukraine.

So the hotels, apartments, restaurants, bars and so many other businesses do not benefit from the tourist trade…. Only the criminals?

Obviously according to you I have no idea about Ukraine neither I have contacted business there, so travelling there 12 times around the country I have not learned anything! 

Never mind I let you, the local expert, to talk about it as I personally have no interest in the country anymore, I had a good taste of their business ethics etc…….and see where Ukraine will go from now on!

[Lily]

  Does Ukraine need either the EU or Russia - yes they do.  Russia would be a better choice for them unless the EU becomes more civil towards them. 

Ukraine to the EU is like how USA treats its dog - Canada.  No offense to Canada but Canada needs the USA and USA does not need Canada. 

I am not an expert about Ukraine, but I think that Ukraine relates to Russia the similar way as the U.S. relates to Canada. Similar cultures, similar or same language, with the difference is that one neighbour is richer and the other is poorer.

I'd say that some Russians just look down to Ukrainians, and some of the latters seem like they agree with that, and on their part, they look up to Moscovites who, with comparable or even the same background and education, still have more opportunities, better payed jobs, and so on.

[Donhollio]

Ukraine maybe a poor country however it does provide steel and agriculture at a very good rate.  It also is one of the leaders in engineering around military products. Very good with IT needs. 

Ukraine also has 45 million people and many like to buy the expensive EU products.  Does the EU need Ukraine - not really.  Does Ukraine need the EU - not really.  Does Ukraine need either the EU or Russia - yes they do.  Russia would be a better choice for them unless the EU becomes more civil towards them.  Ukraine to the EU is like how USA treats its dog - Canada.  No offense to Canada but Canada needs the USA and USA does not need Canada. Canadians may not like this but who really buys Canadian products? Which country invests in Canada?

 Sheesh.... I hope you were drunk when you wrote that one, otherwise I'll consider all the 'wisdom' you give is coming from someone with no knowledge of the facts.
 Allow me to let your fellow American enlighten you on Canada/ US relations. It's a 6 minute video.. feel free to take notes.

[Lily]

Don, thanks for an interesting video, but kievstar meant no offence to Canada while he wrote this.

I think it would be worth a separate thread about U.S. vs. Canada

[Lily]

  Ukraine to the EU is like how USA treats its dog - Canada.  No offense to Canada but Canada needs the USA and USA does not need Canada. Canadians may not like this but who really buys Canadian products? Which country invests in Canada?
 

Dears,

I'd like to know how Canadians feel about the U.S. Do they really look at them as at a neighbour who is richer and stronger than their own country?

From what I could understand, both countries have been nourished from immigration. Canada does it right now, while the U.S. stopped the influx of independent immigrants, apparently having had enough of them. One can emigrate to Canada relatively easily, but not in the U.S.

I have some experience in living in Chicago, and will experience Toronto soon. 

I have heard that same jobs are salaried differently in New York and Toronto. Would that be correct? Do many Canadians go work in the U.S.?

[hemingway]

I am not an expert about Ukraine, but I think that Ukraine relates to Russia the similar way as the U.S. relates to Canada. Similar cultures, similar or same language, with the difference is that one neighbour is richer and the other is poorer.

I'd say that some Russians just look down to Ukrainians, and some of the latters seem like they agree with that, and on their part, they look up to Moscovites who, with comparable or even the same background and education, still have more opportunities, better payed jobs, and so on.

I like your countdown to Canada graphic...lol.

Thanks for the comparison. It helps me to better understand what is apparently a complex relationship between Ukraine and Russia.
 

[Lily]

Probably I could add to this that in the Soviet times, the living situation was almost the opposite. Soviet Ukraine used to have better consumer opportunities, they had stores with goods that we Russians were dying about In the Ukraine, we have seen better food, better homes, better dressed people. My mother received an assignment to work in Ukraine in early 80-x, she accepted a good job offer and took me with her. So I went to a Ukrainian school, and noticed that the classes were somehow more complicated than back home in Samara. I found more opportunities for kids where I became an avid participant.

It all changed after collapse of the USSR. Luckily for me, after a couple of years I managed to leave Ukraine for Samara again, where I stayed with my father and got a Russian passport. That was a really good move on my part, otherwise I may have had finished with Ukrainian citizenship. Mother was almost forced to get one

When I see multinational corporations in Moscow, they often have offices in Kiev and Minsk with them being subordinated to the Moscow offices. This immediately made the Moscovites to sort of bosses, and the Ukranian pros reported to them.

[wiz]

Donhollio

Absolutely brilliant video.

I enjoyed watching and been informed about the relationship between Canada and USA.

That will teach a lesson to some ignoramus people not to call Canada the dog of USA!

Well done!