FSU person getting tourist visa to enter USA

[CanadaMan]

... This is US immigration you are dealing with here, not your Parrish Priest.

I love that line Faux Pas!
Worthy of a tagline? 

[Gylden]

I just would like to point out in this circumstance, there is a greater likelyhood that if there would be some sort of immigration result, it could be that someone would be immigrating to Norway instead of the other way around and those non-Parish Priests at the counselate in Oslo are very much aware of that possibility.
 

[Faux Pas]

I just would like to point out in this circumstance, there is a greater likelyhood that if there would be some sort of immigration result, it could be that someone would be immigrating to Norway instead of the other way around and those non-Parish Priests at the counselate in Oslo are very much aware of that possibility.
 

Gylden, I would think the the embassy immigration officials are well aware of those with a higher degree of desire to immigrate to Norway. The problem here is, she is already in Norway is she not? She wants a visa to the US. Norway immigration doesn't have a dog in that fight. The US immigration officials concern is, will she return or more specifically leave the US on time. I would wager she could receive a tourist visa provided she didn't offer a hint that she was romantically involved. They don't grant tourist visas for those to visit loved ones, they grant them for tourist purposes. This is American bureaucracy at it's finest. If Chris keeps that in mind as he attempts to help, she may just get what they're hoping for.

Canadaman

Heh hee. Use it if you wish. I say it to reaffirm there is nothing dishonest about not offering information not asked for. If they feel that it is dishonest they should save it for the confessional. I've had too many interactions with US immigration to worry with them damaging my moral fiber 

[Chris59]

I agree with BF. Your are offering too much information and information they will not even ask for if she doesn't choose to disclose it in the first place. She will better her chances of obtaining the tourist visa by not even affiliating herself with you.

Ok, thank you for that! This is the type of information that I need to consider.

It appears as if the concensus opinion is, Elena should not disclose information regarding our relationship. I did supply Elena with an Invitation Letter, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she has to disclose everything in full, upfront, during the course of her interview.

I don't claim to know much about the B-2 visa process, but you state that "information they will not even ask for if she doesn't choose to disclose it in the first place".  You and BF agree that I am supplying too much information. However BF advocates applying using another person as the sponsor, and that is not only dishonest in this case, it is not an option either.

I suppose I could tell Elena to only answer the direct questions, and not divulge any unnecessary information. However, I have to believe that at some point in the interview, the CO is going to ask certain questions, such as:

1. Why do you want a tourist visa to the United States?
2. Where will you be staying while in the country, and if not at a hotel, with whom?

I have a hard time believing that the Consul Officer is not even going to ask these questions!
If others who have been through this process agree that they will NOT even ask these questions, I would like to hear about, but it seems to make no sense that they would not ask. In my opinion, if and when they DO ask, Elena will have the letter from me.

I will once again refer to "Gylden's" golden advice:

Qualifying for a Visa
1. The purpose of their trip is to enter the U.S. for business, pleasure, or medical treatment;
2. That they plan to remain for a specific, limited period;
3. Evidence of funds to cover expenses in the United States;
4. Evidence of compelling social and economic ties abroad; and
5. That they have a residence outside the U.S. as well as other binding ties that will insure their return abroad at the end of the visit.

IMO the most important factor in applying for a visa is honesty! These interviewers are trained in recognizing discrepancies, so if you try to deceive them in any way the chances for denial are much greater.
.
Point 1. This can be explained: I would like to visit the US on vacation, I have met a man from there and he has invited me to be his guest in his home in California. (this is honest and reasonable) and no need for the interviewer to think otherwise.
Point 2.  I will be in the US for two weeks, starting such and such date to such and such date. Produce and itinerary. (you will ask to produce the tickets when you pick up the visa).
Point 3.  I will be staying with my friend at his home, give address and letter inviting her and confirming that he will be paying for her vacation. Present a copy of the wire transfer, which he has made to cover the ticket/travel expenses.
Point  4 and 5.  These are the key points in the whole process.  
The point I am trying to make here is that if you read the information which is published on the govt. web site everyone is believed to be an immigrant unless you can prove otherwise. IMO they are looking for honesty in all areas more than specifics, which in reality are basically the same for everyone.

This advice absolutely makes the most sense to me! Ok, so maybe Elena doesn't have to volunteer upfront any information about our relationship, but I HAVE to believe at some point, they are going to ask questions related to "Point 1, 2, 3" above.

[Faux Pas]

Ok, thank you for that! This is the type of information that I need to consider.

It appears as if the concensus opinion is, Elena should not disclose information regarding our relationship. I did supply Elena with an Invitation Letter, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she has to disclose everything in full, upfront, during the course of her interview.

I don't claim to know much about the B-2 visa process, but you state that "information they will not even ask for if she doesn't choose to disclose it in the first place".  You and BF agree that I am supplying too much information. However BF advocates applying using another person as the sponsor, and that is not only dishonest in this case, it is not an option either.

I suppose I could tell Elena to only answer the direct questions, and not divulge any unnecessary information. However, I have to believe that at some point in the interview, the CO is going to ask certain questions, such as:

1. Why do you want a tourist visa to the United States?
2. Where will you be staying while in the country, and if not at a hotel, with whom?

I have a hard time believing that the Consul Officer is not even going to ask these questions!
If others who have been through this process agree that they will NOT even ask these questions, I would like to hear about, but it seems to make no sense that they would not ask. In my opinion, if and when they DO ask, Elena will have the letter from me.

I will once again refer to "Gylden's" golden advice:

This advice absolutely makes the most sense to me! Ok, so maybe Elena doesn't have to volunteer upfront any information about our relationship, but I HAVE to believe at some point, they are going to ask questions related to "Point 1, 2, 3" above.

In all likelihood Elena will qualify for a tourist visa without your help. She is a resident of Norway. Owns (IIRC) an apartment and has a job. Has travel stamps in her Russian passport. These will be the first considerations for her qualifications. Next on the consideration list is her itinerary of what she plans to do and when she plans to return. This is where it could get dicey. I would recommend you help her plan an itinerary for a tourist. If they have an inkling it is a romantic trip, they will deny her (she applied for the wrong visa). Leave that little eventuality out of the equation. If she is asked she will have to deny it.

[Gylden]

Faux Pas,
I can understand why people would be paranoid about women being denied a tourist visa, but that statement you just made is just well to be polite, just plain untrue. The only way her itinerary or plans for the trip would come into play concerning a decision to grant, would be if they didn't believe her about it.

What makes you believe that a romantic visit would be automatically denied? A B-2 visa is certainly the visa for visiting friends and I have never heard of a romantic visa?? What visa do you mean to apply for, in order to visit a boyfriend/girlfriend?

One more thing, I know there are plenty of people who maintain that it is not dishonest to withold information in this process, but the visa web site DOES say specifically that witholding information IS a reason for denial. Furthermore, if a person believes they are clever and when asked about the purpose of the trip and the reply is as a tourist and the next question is have you been in contact with anyone in the US or are you planning to visit anyone there? (and they can and often do ask those questions), Then what is your reply?? If you have earlier in your interview witheld this information, it can be certainly be held against you.

Anyway as I said earlier, I do understand the reason for paranoia.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,
I can understand why people would be paranoid about women being denied a tourist visa, but that statement you just made is just well to be polite, just plain untrue. The only way her itinerary or plans for the trip would come into play concerning a decision to grant, would be if they didn't believe her about it.

Gylden, here is where we'll have to agree to disagree. Her itinerary comes into play when they ask her where she plans to go and what she plans to do as a tourist. When it comes to light that she plans to visit a man she is romantically involved with, interview over. The interviewer's questions are clever and designed to trip her up. Even though she is a resident in Norway she is still a citizen of Russia. If you do not think that will come into play and weigh heavily in consideration you are being overly optimistic to downright gullible.

What makes you believe that a romantic visit would be automatically denied? A B-2 visa is certainly the visa for visiting friends and I have never heard of a romantic visa?? What visa do you mean to apply for, in order to visit a boyfriend/girlfriend?

There is no visa for the romantic interludes unless you count the K-1, K-2s. For those a relationship must be proven to be established along with an intent to marry. IMO (which is worth what you pay for it) disclosing a prior relationship with Chris and intention to visit him nullifies her reason for a visit on a tourist visa. The consulate looks for reasons to deny visas, not reasons to approve them

One more thing, I know there are plenty of people who maintain that it is not dishonest to withold information in this process, but the visa web site DOES say specifically that witholding information IS a reason for denial. Furthermore, if a person believes they are clever and when asked about the purpose of the trip and the reply is as a tourist and the next question is have you been in contact with anyone in the US or are you planning to visit anyone there? (and they can and often do ask those questions), Then what is your reply?? If you have earlier in your interview witheld this information, it can be certainly be held against you.

Anyway as I said earlier, I do understand the reason for paranoia.

I am one of those people. It is up to the consulate to mine their specific information. Another reason for denial is to apply for a tourist visa when tourism is not her intent. It will appear she/he are attempting to circumvent the K-1 process and another reason for denial.

When the aforementioned question is asked (IMO) she can at that point or not, admit knowing Chris and may or may not visit him.

The paranoia is well warranted. A visa denial will remain on her record with the US consulate and well likely affect future applications. In a perfect world and apparently the Utopia you live in, the US consulate is all joy and peaches and cream. That is not very realistic.

[Gylden]

Faux Pas,
Yes we can agree to disagree, I mean you no disrespect, as you are one of the members here, whom I respect, just I have had completely different experiences in my life with regards to these types of matters.

"The paranoia is well warranted. A visa denial will remain on her record with the US consulate and well likely affect future applications."

This statement is entirely false, only if a person has been caught lying or missleading will it have an effect on future visas etc. A person can reapply as many times as they wish, with updated information, which they believe will fullfill the shortcomings of the denied attempt. ( go to the web site and read a bit )
On the visa web site you can even read about the fact that a tourist visa IS the right visa for visiting friends and they have a question and answer area, which covers things that can help in the PROCESS (see my prior posts), which includes a letter of invitation if you will be visiting friends.

I recommend you also look at the statistics area of the website to see that there were only 4% disapproved tourist visa's in 2009 (I believe it was 2009). I submit a good portion of those rejections were due to people who thought they could BS their way around in the interview. (omit things related to their travel or lie)

[Faux Pas]

Gylden what we have here is the optimist position and the pessimist. Me being the latter. All based on my experience with the US consulate and immigration. It should be said I personally have never applied for a visa to the US. I have never needed to but, I know personally of several who have and were denied. That is the sum of my experience.

With that said it does sound to me that Chris's lady has a very good chance of getting a visa. IMO her Russian citizenship is cause for extra scrutiny for the very reason they deny so many tourist visas from FSU women. I would not want to see her blow an excellent opportunity. The element of her romantic relationship with Chris may do just that. If it doesn't, how do they prove platonic friendship? IMO, Chris should stay out of her process. He only brings up more questions for the consulate.

I am watching this with interest as I expect to send a letter of invitation later this year for a couple who are friends of my wife and I.

[Chris59]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the spirited debate, and keeping it civil. I am learning much about this process by considering arguments from both sides.

On the U.S. Consulate website in Oslo, exists the following information:

Non-Immigrant Visas
Visitors for Business or Pleasure (B1/ B2 visa)

In addition to the basic requirements for all visa applicants, those seeking to enter the U.S. for business or pleasure must also include the following:

PROOF OF FINANCES: A current bank statement or other evidence to show that you have sufficient funds to cover the costs of the trip. If someone else is financing your trip, we need both a bank statement and a letter of consent from the person funding your travel.

Ok, I'll have to discuss this with Elena. I don't normally inquire about her personal finances, but she talks like she has sufficient funds. If not, I'll send her a copy of my bank statements.  


EMPLOYMENT LETTER: Stating the following
type of work you do and how long your contract will last
how long you have been employed
how long your vacation or leave will last
If your employer is sending you to the U.S., the letter should include trip details
purpose and length of trip
information about how the trip will be financed.

My guess is, this should not be a problem for her. She often speaks highly about her job, and the people she works with.

A DETAILED TRAVEL PLAN: Of places you intend to visit, people you intend to stay with, and approximate dates.

Ok, Faux Pas specifically mentioned by name the need for a "Travel Plan". This is not unreasonable, and I have never doubted that this could be a requirement. However, this Travel Plan also wants such information as "people you intend to stay with", places you intend to visit, dates, etc. This is where I personally believe it is prudent to not attempt to hide any details about myself. Elena wishes to come to the U.S. for a tourism vacation, and I will be the one accompanying her while she is in the U.S.  The only definate plans we have made at this point is, a week's Caribbean cruise somewhere out of Florida. I can formulate some type of firm Intinerary in advance if I need to. Other than that, the only other "plans" I have thought about are introducing her to relatives in the southeastern United States. Elena has also expressed some interest in seeing Washington D.C and New York. So, looks like I have to begin firming up a travel plan.


INVITATION LETTER from the person you will be visiting in the U.S., explaining the purpose of the trip, relationship of your contact/friend/family member to you, etc.
You must have an address for your first night’s stay in the U.S. Please indicate this information on your visa application.(see also Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) info)

This is where I believe that Gylden's advice comes into play. Again, I know very little about the process, but I just have to believe they are going to ask about "who" in the U.S. she intends to spend her time with, and where she will be staying. It almost seems ridiculous that they would approve a lady a visa, without knowing anything about me.

Just because we have a male/female relationship, doesn't mean I am trying to bring her here to immigrate, or for marriage. If such was the case, we'd just file the K-1 and get it over with. Also, since she's now a legal Norwegian resident, if her primary intention was to immigrate to the U.S. under something other than a K-1, she could just trade-in her Russian passport for a Norwegian, and there'd be no visa requiremant at all. However, that's not her intention.

After reading some of the arguments here, it almost sounds as if the Consulate will only grant a visa to bring her over for marriage (K-1, K-2),...however, if we are somewhat romantically involved, and not seriously considering marriage at this point, then a visit for tourism purposes, even though it will be time spent with ME means, "interview over". Apparently, I do not "qualify legitimately as a friend".

I'm hoping that the 2 main points of contention are;

1. Elena would like to visit the U.S. for 2 weeks with me as her sponsor, tourism itinerary manager, hospitality provider, and financial backup (if needed).

2. She has every reason to want to return to Norway, ...an apartment, a good job, car, etc.

Gentlemen, again you both make compelling arguments. I sincerely appreciate your spirited debate over my cause. I am learning a lot about the B-2 process. This may not get settled until Elena actually applies and a decision has been rendered. I will gladly post any final details here for the world to read at the conclusion of this process. I mentioned it before that Elena is actually a bit nervous about America. I've had to re-assure her that it's not all like what she sees on TV. Therefore, the possibility exists that she'll want to scrap the idea of coming to the U.S., and we'll just do something in Spain again (Tenerife, maybe), or may try Italy this time. I told her that I'm fine with whatever she decides to choose.

If there's any other comments to be added to this debate, please don't hold them back. I want to know as much about this process as I can before we approach the Consulate.

[Faux Pas]

Chris

A travel plan or itinerary for her is going to be a must for consideration. Unlikely they will issue her an open-ended visa. However, the travel plan can be tentative and not set in stone. In other words there is flexibility (and she'll want flexibility in her plan). The consulate will wish to see that she has a plan for visiting and returning.

You have received two well formulated arguments from different angles to reach the same goal. By all means go with what you are comfortable with. Yes there is a long list of instructions and requirements for visiting friends for pleasure on the B-2. However, if those friends are not listed, the requirements are not needed. You could be opening Pandora's box. There is nothing wrong and it is not against the law for her to apply and travel to the US just for the sake of visiting the US as a tourist. Even with a well formulated plan there is nothing to prevent her from changing her plan. If she can qualify with a letter from you she can probably qualify without it as well.

Before planning the cruise I would caution you to check into  cruise much deeper. She will be leaving the country and may have some difficulty if she does not have a multiple entry visa.

[Chris59]

INVITATION LETTER from the person you will be visiting in the U.S., explaining the purpose of the trip, relationship of your contact/friend/family member to you, etc.
You must have an address for your first night’s stay in the U.S. Please indicate this information on your visa application.(see also Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) info)


Having re-read some of the requirements from the Oslo Consulate website, it almost seems like she is required to report to a probation officer for House Arrest. We haven't even decided what is the best flight itinerary to take. She has mentioned that she can fly SAS directly into Newark, but I am actually hoping that she could arrive into Atlanta, Tampa, Sarasota or Miami. Thus, we don't even know where we would be on that first night. We could very well be in a hotel room anywhere, unless she connects to another flight that flies directly into Tampa or Sarasota.

So, without an approved visa, she's not going to book the airfare. I suppose we can check the most convenient itineraries, and just make a plan assuming we're going to book flights from that. If she chooses Newark, then I could fly up there and meet her upon arrival.

Chris

A travel plan or itinerary for her is going to be a must for consideration. Unlikely they will issue her an open-ended visa. However, the travel plan can be tentative and not set in stone. In other words there is flexibility (and she'll want flexibility in her plan). The consulate will wish to see that she has a plan for visiting and returning.

Yes there is a long list of instructions and requirements for visiting friends for pleasure on the B-2. However, if those friends are not listed, the requirements are not needed. You could be opening Pandora's box. There is nothing wrong and it is not against the law for her to apply and travel to the US just for the sake of visiting the US as a tourist. Even with a well formulated plan there is nothing to prevent her from changing her plan. If she can qualify with a letter from you she can probably qualify without it as well.

Before planning the cruise I would caution you to check into  cruise much deeper. She will be leaving the country and may have some difficulty if she does not have a multiple entry visa.

I sincerely appreciate your opinion(s), and please do not take offense at this, but your last statement almost seems a bit contradictory, both within itself, and the policy listed on the Oslo Consulate website.

Wouldn't a "travel plan" include not only the locations that she will be traveling to, but also with whom she will be traveling? The website clearly states that they want to know:

"A DETAILED TRAVEL PLAN: Of places you intend to visit, people you intend to stay with, and approximate dates.",....and,

"INVITATION LETTER from the person you will be visiting in the U.S., explaining the purpose of the trip, relationship of your contact/friend/family member to you, etc."

On the one hand, you're confirming that a travel plan is a must,...I agree,....and that they will not issue her an "open-ended visa". I also agree about not being issued an open-ended visa, but isn't not having to declare who you will be staying with, sort of like leaving some of the details "open-ended"?

If she makes no mention of me, and qualifies without any disclosure that I'm part of the equation, I have a difficult time believing they're not going to ask her specific questions about where she intends to stay, and whether or not she has any friends, or relatives that she plans to visit while she's here. In my opinion, all these details are part of the "Travel Plan". IF they ask about me, I would expect Elena to be truthful and tell them about me.

If Elena purchased a package tour from a travel agency, then I could understand about them maybe not asking if there is anyone here that she intends to visit. When we met in Spain in 2005, she had never been outside the former CCCP at that time, and apparently was told that she had to purchase a "tour package" in order to receive a visa to Spain. If we went this route, I could see where I would become irrelevant, but she is not applying to take a tour package, she is inquiring about independent travel, which common sense would dictate that she would need somebody to assist her while she's here. Thus, it's more likely that they will ask about anyone here in the States that she is going to visit.

This just seems like the honest, logical, common sense approach. Maybe the Consulate doesn't work on that approach, and you're trying to coach me to get qualified based upon the actual tactics that they will use.

In any case, it appears as if the main contention in this argument is, whether or not Elena should mention anything about me. What is she supposed to say if the CO asks, "will you be staying with anyone while in the U.S."?

If she applies just based upon her Norwegian residency qualifications, and initially makes no mention of me, won't they eventually ask about whoever it is she plans to stay with? I have to believe they will.

This is where I am hoping that this little piece of common sense advice is true:

"I have been told by the consulate that a foreign woman having a relationship with US man is not a reason for rejecting a visa. However, if a young single woman applies for a tourist visa and she is claiming not to be going to the US to see a man and they believe she is not being truthful she will be rejected just because she is suspected of not being truthful."

Again, Faux Pas, I mean no disrespect, as I'm getting incredibly valuable information from this debate.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your points, you seem to be saying, that they will allow Elena a tourist visa based mostly upon her Norwegian residency status, without even asking about any friends here?

They'll allow her to travel to the United States on vacation for pleasure, but if it includes ME, then it's "interview over"?

I guess we'll know more at the time of the interview. In any case, it looks like I have a few more documents to prepare. Thanks again for all the commentary!



 

[CanadaMan]

... I've told Elena that she may not get approved, and we'll just vacation again in Europe if such is the case, but I'd really like to show her Florida and other parts of the United States.

 Chris, after reading your story and all the subsequent replies I believe you need go no further than your above statement.
You've already stated your position clearly. You must be honest and upfront about everything. Nothing held back.

Just apply as you were intending to apply. If it works, great. If it doesn't, then just vacation in Europe again, as you have indicated you will do.

[Faux Pas]

INVITATION LETTER from the person you will be visiting in the U.S., explaining the purpose of the trip, relationship of your contact/friend/family member to you, etc.
You must have an address for your first night’s stay in the U.S. Please indicate this information on your visa application.(see also Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) info)

This isn't required to be someone's personal address

Having re-read some of the requirements from the Oslo Consulate website, it almost seems like she is required to report to a probation officer for House Arrest. We haven't even decided what is the best flight itinerary to take. She has mentioned that she can fly SAS directly into Newark, but I am actually hoping that she could arrive into Atlanta, Tampa, Sarasota or Miami. Thus, we don't even know where we would be on that first night. We could very well be in a hotel room anywhere, unless she connects to another flight that flies directly into Tampa or Sarasota.

Her point of entry is really of no consequence. You have indicated you plan on traveling with her the entire two weeks in the US. Why not go ahead and plan that using the destinations and hotel/resorts you are considering. If you are spending sometime in your city, why do you have to plan that she stays at your residence?

So, without an approved visa, she's not going to book the airfare. I suppose we can check the most convenient itineraries, and just make a plan assuming we're going to book flights from that. If she chooses Newark, then I could fly up there and meet her upon arrival.

I could be wrong but I do not believe the consulate will require her to have purchased airfare or lodgings prior to an interview.

I sincerely appreciate your opinion(s), and please do not take offense at this, but your last statement almost seems a bit contradictory, both within itself, and the policy listed on the Oslo Consulate website.

Wouldn't a "travel plan" include not only the locations that she will be traveling to, but also with whom she will be traveling? The website clearly states that they want to know:

No offense taken. Believe it or not, I am trying to help but I am no expert on US visas. I only have some experience in following their requirements to the letter. The rules change by case and too much information can be a detriment. I'm not sure where you think I was contradictory. Nobody during her entire visa process has to know that you will be traveling with her, unless of course you or her tell them.

"A DETAILED TRAVEL PLAN: Of places you intend to visit, people you intend to stay with, and approximate dates.",....and,

"INVITATION LETTER from the person you will be visiting in the U.S., explaining the purpose of the trip, relationship of your contact/friend/family member to you, etc."

If there is no one she "intends" to stay with, how can she provide the information?

On the one hand, you're confirming that a travel plan is a must,...I agree,....and that they will not issue her an "open-ended visa". I also agree about not being issued an open-ended visa, but isn't not having to declare who you will be staying with, sort of like leaving some of the details "open-ended"?

She will be perfectly permitted to stay on her own in various places of her travels. Many times this is what tourists do.

If she makes no mention of me, and qualifies without any disclosure that I'm part of the equation, I have a difficult time believing they're not going to ask her specific questions about where she intends to stay, and whether or not she has any friends, or relatives that she plans to visit while she's here. In my opinion, all these details are part of the "Travel Plan". IF they ask about me, I would expect Elena to be truthful and tell them about me.

This is probably where you and Elena have a decision to make

If Elena purchased a package tour from a travel agency, then I could understand about them maybe not asking if there is anyone here that she intends to visit. When we met in Spain in 2005, she had never been outside the former CCCP at that time, and apparently was told that she had to purchase a "tour package" in order to receive a visa to Spain. If we went this route, I could see where I would become irrelevant, but she is not applying to take a tour package, she is inquiring about independent travel, which common sense would dictate that she would need somebody to assist her while she's here. Thus, it's more likely that they will ask about anyone here in the States that she is going to visit.

This is not comparing apples to apples. A Shangen and or Spain visa and a US visa are not close to the same. A prepaid tour package is not required (but may prove helpful). Having someone to assist her is not a requirement.

This just seems like the honest, logical, common sense approach. Maybe the Consulate doesn't work on that approach, and you're trying to coach me to get qualified based upon the actual tactics that they will use.

You need to go with your conscience I suppose. But, keep in mind, there is nothing illegal, immoral or illogical for you to join her on her itinerary while she visits your country.

In any case, it appears as if the main contention in this argument is, whether or not Elena should mention anything about me. What is she supposed to say if the CO asks, "will you be staying with anyone while in the U.S."?

See above. The answer to that question is no.

If she applies just based upon her Norwegian residency qualifications, and initially makes no mention of me, won't they eventually ask about whoever it is she plans to stay with? I have to believe they will.

This is where I am hoping that this little piece of common sense advice is true:

Certainly they could ask. She is old enough and can afford her own travel. Why does she "need" you? Her Norwegian residency would certainly be helpful. More so is her history of travel, her age, her assets and employment in Norway. She is still a citizen of Russia and carries a Russian passport. This will raise an eyebrow but, with her other qualifications she should overcome this

Again, Faux Pas, I mean no disrespect, as I'm getting incredibly valuable information from this debate.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your points, you seem to be saying, that they will allow Elena a tourist visa based mostly upon her Norwegian residency status, without even asking about any friends here?

They'll allow her to travel to the United States on vacation for pleasure, but if it includes ME, then it's "interview over"?

I guess we'll know more at the time of the interview. In any case, it looks like I have a few more documents to prepare. Thanks again for all the commentary!

No offense taken. I am only offering you another point of view. I have no dog in this hunt. I only chimed in because even though I have the utmost respect for Gylden, his wife's situation and Elena's are not related in the eyes of the consulate. I agreed with BF, I think your best course of action is what I outlined. You won't pee in my Post Toasties either way
 




[/quote]

[Chris59]

CanadaMan,

Thanks for that! Sure, we'll vacation again in Europe if it comes to that. Europe (what I've seen of it anyways) is cool. I always enjoy my trips over there.

My first preference though is to show Elena around Florida, and hopefully a few other interesting U.S. sites. We're always discussing the weather here, and she just loves the water, swimming and hot weather. If our relationship is to flourish, I think she needs to see parts my home country at least once.

Heck, even WE can visit the ladies in Russia on almost a moments notice,...no hassles getting a visa. No questions at the border. I know, who wants to emigrate to stay in Russia?

My major contention in this whole process is, Elena now lives in a great country, where she has a good job, an apartment, a social life, and she's happy there. I think THAT'S what the Consulate should be more concerned with,...and not so much about me, who's only inviting her to see my home for a couple weeks on holiday.

[CanadaMan]

CanadaMan,

...My first preference though is to show Elena around Florida, and hopefully a few other interesting U.S. sites. We're always discussing the weather here, and she just loves the water, swimming and hot weather. If our relationship is to flourish, I think she needs to see parts my home country at least once.

 Yes I understand your first preference completely.

My major contention in this whole process is, Elena now lives in a great country, where she has a good job, an apartment, a social life, and she's happy there. I think THAT'S what the Consulate should be more concerned with...

Because of your strong moral convictions you really have no choice.
You must be honest with your application and take your chances.
Go with your initial application strategy and hope for the best.
If it works, you're laughing.
If it doesn't, you can kick yourself for being 'too honest'.

[Gylden]

Come on, why make such a mess out of a pretty simple action.
Some quick facts about Norway:
Did you know that permanent residence in Norway allow one to vote?
She will get a pension, which is heads above anything she could possibly receive in the US.
If she has children in Norway, she will receive a one time payment at birth of more than 10,000.00 dollars and she will receive for each child more than 200.00 dollars each month until they are 18 yo. Mothers get one year paid leave after each birth and fathers get 2 or 3 months.
She gets minimum 5 weeks paid vacation each year, regardless of what type of job she holds.
Keep all of this in mind when thinking about COMPELLING REASONS TO RETURN.

Faux pas,  Explain what an “open ended” visa is, because you will not find such a description on any govt. web site. Most likely she will be issued a B1/B2 visa, typically it would be for multiple entries and valid for most commonly for 5 years (typical tourist visas from the Oslo consulate).   READ THE WEB SITE!  Especially the question and answer section. Also, have you even looked at the statistics?? Russians only have a 4% rejection rate, while Ukrainians have a 36% rejection rate.  I would venture to say she is making twice that salary of what the same job would pay in the US and as according to the web site, the most difficult requirement to satisfy in the interview/information provided with the visa application is compelling reason to leave the US as scheduled. Why would she want to leave such a job and a land where if she gets sick, she will receive FULL salary and free medical service (I can go on and on about compelling reasons to return for her).  YOU GUYS ARE MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLE HILL!!  (me too I guess)

Listen, I understand you guys who found “agency” women living in Russia or Ukraine, listening to all of the hype from the brotherhood about all of this nonsense, but come on!!  Do you think those CO’s don’t have access to the web?? Do you think they just ignore the biggest tool they have for trying to establish “intent”?? What do you think they are thinking if they find a visa applicant listed on one of the foreign “dating/marriage” web sites?? Especially if the woman is stating that her destination is for example Milwaukee (for example) and she is claiming to be JUST a tourist and that she is NOT going to visit someone?? (and they will ask, as it is in their manual).   The only eyebrows that will be raised by her being Russian and living in Norway are the eyebrows on these forums, there are plenty of Russians living and working in Norway and plenty of them are traveling and getting visas.

You DO NOT need to buy tickets prior to the interview, if the visa is approved in the FSU you will have to show the tickets at the time you pick up the visa. In Oslo, they will not care, as the visa (most likely) will allow her to make multiple entries during the period the visa is valid for.   READ THE WEB SITE AND THINK ABOUT COMPELLING REASONS TO RETURN!

Please do accept my sincere apologies for “going off” here a bit, I do respect  you Faux Pas,  very much, I think you have just fallen victim to a lot of this hype built up around all of the “agency” group and whatever failures have resulted BECAUSE of this hype. We have all heard about someone damaging their future visa possibilities by being refused a visa and it simply is not true…UNLESS there has been some manipulation of the facts i.e. misleading the CO.  Honestly there is so much information on the web site, it is worth to spend some hours there and read.

FWIW, in the past when I have had some difficult or just plain out of the ordinary situations regarding working permits/import/export/visa, I have for the most relied on the consulate staff for help in organizing whatever it was I needed. I really think they are not monsters and if someone has a legitimate need or question, they are more than willing to help or comment.

Chris59,
Have a look at Iceland Air, Oslo – Orlando, I use them frequently, very nice flight and not expensive. Stops over in Iceland for an hour usually, which is a nice way to break up those long journeys.
She can write up her own itinerary, with flight numbers and dates and such. She won’t need to buy tickets before the interview (but you probably know that already)
IMO the most important “compelling” evidence a person can show is their honesty/integrity.
If you consider the point that is both published on the visa web site and much talked about on forums. Then think about all of the women who HAVE immigrated to the US. They all or at least most of them had apartments in the FSU, good jobs in the FSU, family and friends in the FSU etc. and they still immigrated right?? So although these items show that a person is somewhat responsible IMO and just logically it is NO proof or compelling evidence to suggest no intention to immigrate.

[Faux Pas]

Okay Gylden, with all due respect and because I like you, let's try this one more time.

Come on, why make such a mess out of a pretty simple action.
Some quick facts about Norway:
Did you know that permanent residence in Norway allow one to vote?
She will get a pension, which is heads above anything she could possibly receive in the US.
If she has children in Norway, she will receive a one time payment at birth of more than 10,000.00 dollars and she will receive for each child more than 200.00 dollars each month until they are 18 yo. Mothers get one year paid leave after each birth and fathers get 2 or 3 months.
She gets minimum 5 weeks paid vacation each year, regardless of what type of job she holds.
Keep all of this in mind when thinking about COMPELLING REASONS TO RETURN.

She is not applying for a visa to Norway. Norway is a great place to live (IYO) I get it. The fact that she is a resident and would likely return is a plus for a visa to the US, I get that too. This assumption by you strengthens my position as well. I contend she has an excellent chance for being granted a visa. Why complicate it?

Faux pas,  Explain what an “open ended” visa is, because you will not find such a description on any govt. web site. Most likely she will be issued a B1/B2 visa, typically it would be for multiple entries and valid for most commonly for 5 years (typical tourist visas from the Oslo consulate).   READ THE WEB SITE! 

No where did I state an open ended visa could be found on any government website. I was referring to her being approved for a visa without an itinerary which would make her visa "open-ended". I do not know of any open-ended visas either.

  

YOU GUYS ARE MAKING A MOUNTAIN OUT OF A MOLE HILL!!

It would appear to me, this would be you exaggerating the ease of an Russian lady's chance's of obtaining a tourist visa to a 96% success rate. I don't know the official stats but my guess is only a 4% denied number doesn't sound right. I have no mouse in my pocket Gylden. Looking around it is just me and not "you guys"

Listen, I understand you guys who found “agency” women living in Russia or Ukraine, listening to all of the hype from the brotherhood about all of this nonsense, but come on!!  Do you think those CO’s don’t have access to the web?? Do you think they just ignore the biggest tool they have for trying to establish “intent”?? What do you think they are thinking if they find a visa applicant listed on one of the foreign “dating/marriage” web sites?? Especially if the woman is stating that her destination is for example Milwaukee (for example) and she is claiming to be JUST a tourist and that she is NOT going to visit someone?? (and they will ask, as it is in their manual).   The only eyebrows that will be raised by her being Russian and living in Norway are the eyebrows on these forums, there are plenty of Russians living and working in Norway and plenty of them are traveling and getting visas.

There you go with the "you guys" thing again. Your assumption here is totally wrong. I have not based anything I've stated in this thread on "agency hype". I did not meet my wife at an agency nor do I parrot the hype that you are referring. You continually overlook or ignore the idea that it is possible to enter the US as a tourist without the need to be reliant on a citizen living here. Many do it everyday.

Please do accept my sincere apologies for “going off” here a bit, I do respect  you Faux Pas,  very much, I think you have just fallen victim to a lot of this hype built up around all of the “agency” group and whatever failures have resulted BECAUSE of this hype. We have all heard about someone damaging their future visa possibilities by being refused a visa and it simply is not true…UNLESS there has been some manipulation of the facts i.e. misleading the CO.  Honestly there is so much information on the web site, it is worth to spend some hours there and read.

Glyden you do seem to as if you are about to bust a blood vessel  No need for that. You believe what you believe and take the consulate website as the holy grail. I do not. I've already seen a couple of people denied by doing so. I myself am a by the book A-type personality. I myself have also learned my lesson. As I mentioned way upthread it would be beneficial to take into consideration the bureaucratic mess that is our consulate and immigration system and not complicate any situation anymore than absolutely necessary.

FWIW, in the past when I have had some difficult or just plain out of the ordinary situations regarding working permits/import/export/visa, I have for the most relied on the consulate staff for help in organizing whatever it was I needed. I really think they are not monsters and if someone has a legitimate need or question, they are more than willing to help or comment.

You are an American. Unlike Chris's lady who is not. Even though she is a Norway resident she is still a Russian citizen not married to an American as your wife is. The US consulate is Oslo is not going to be much different than the consulate in Moscow and I am betting she will be treated much the same as if she were in Moscow

Gylden I think you are doing the same thing I am. Trying to help Chris. Your experience is different from mine. I do not discount yours however, I would not recommend it.

[Ade]

You are an American. Unlike Chris's lady who is not. Even though she is a Norway resident she is still a Russian citizen not married to an American as your wife is. The US consulate is Oslo is not going to be much different than the consulate in Moscow and I am betting she will be treated much the same as if she were in Moscow

Gylden I think you are doing the same thing I am. Trying to help Chris. Your experience is different from mine. I do not discount yours however, I would not recommend it.

FWIW, My bet is that as a Norwegian resident she will be considered more as a Norwegian than a Russian and I'd be very surprised if she were denied a tourist visa to the US or anywhere else for that matter. My wife reads a quite active Russian/Norwegian forum and she can't think of any  case there where a Russian, resident here, has been denied a visa for anywhere else - and yes, there are single Russian women living here too.

[Gylden]

Faux Pas,
I agree with you completely, we are both trying to be of some help.
Sorry about the “you guys” thing, what I mean, is that although on this particular thread there wasn’t another poster with the same POV, it seems to be quite a popular position on the various forums.

My positive FACTS about Norway, was not necessarily my opinion, just some facts about the quality of life a normal working person can expect and get in Norway. I meant to keep these facts in mind when thinking about the compelling reason to return requirement of the interview. BTW I know of many Americans who have married and moved to Norway, I am friends with three of them in just our little town of 20,000. So the other point I was trying to make, is that the dynamics of the immigration questions change drastically.

One point we do agree about is that it is not necessary for her to have a letter of invitation. I am not ignoring the fact, however on the official web site it does state that a letter of invitation can help.

The statistic I gave of 4% denial rate for Russia and 36% denial rate for Ukraine is straight from an official govt. visa web site, I posted the link in another thread.

I don’t take anything to be the holy grail. I do have quite a bit of experience with international business and the various matters associated with it, such as working permissions, visas, documentation, etc. etc. IME I have always found the staffers at the various consulates/immigrations/customs offices to be of considerable help and never have I had a significant problem.

If you have ever heard of anyone being denied a visa and it has had a negative effect on any future visa applications or resulted in the inability to apply again for a certain time period, it is most certainly because that person has tried to mislead the interviewer and or lied in the interviewer. You can find this information on the web site too.

Faux Pas,  I do like your “even keel” if and when our paths cross I would like to buy you a beer and swap stories, I am sure it would be fun!

[BillyB]

Even though she is a Norway resident she is still a Russian citizen not married to an American as your wife is. The US consulate is Oslo is not going to be much different than the consulate in Moscow and I am betting she will be treated much the same as if she were in Moscow

My bet is that as a Norwegian resident she will be considered more as a Norwegian than a Russian and I'd be very surprised if she were denied a tourist visa to the US or anywhere else for that matter.

Faux, I would have to say SJ may be more right than you on this issue. Even the terrorists understand they must live in a Western country such as Germany or Canada first before trying to get a visa to come to America. I assume the terrorists did their homework and understand their chance for a visa greatly improves when first living in a country with friendly ties with America. If a person lives in Europe or Canada without causing any problems, I assume their chances to be granted a visa to America greatly improves.

[Faux Pas]

FWIW, My bet is that as a Norwegian resident she will be considered more as a Norwegian than a Russian and I'd be very surprised if she were denied a tourist visa to the US or anywhere else for that matter. My wife reads a quite active Russian/Norwegian forum and she can't think of any  case there where a Russian, resident here, has been denied a visa for anywhere else - and yes, there are single Russian women living here too.

I both agree and disagree with you here. The US consulate will consider the absolutes first. One absolute is that she has only a Russian citizenship and will be considered a Russian citizen, not a Norwegian. With her other absolutes, her travel history, age, assets and Norwegian resident situation, her Russian citizenship is not a negative and should easily be granted a visa on this basis alone. Where is is likely to get muddled (if in fact it does) is injecting Chris into the picture. This "could" be viewed by the consulate as attempting to circumvent the K-1, K-2 visa process.

[Ade]

I both agree and disagree with you here. The US consulate will consider the absolutes first. One absolute is that she has only a Russian citizenship and will be considered a Russian citizen, not a Norwegian. With her other absolutes, her travel history, age, assets and Norwegian resident situation, her Russian citizenship is not a negative and should easily be granted a visa on this basis alone. Where is is likely to get muddled (if in fact it does) is injecting Chris into the picture. This "could" be viewed by the consulate as attempting to circumvent the K-1, K-2 visa process.

I honestly can't see that "injecting Chris" will matter one way or another in this particular case and if he feels more honest about declaring his ties with her then I think he should go right ahead and do so; I'd be stunned if it caused a visa denial.

[Faux Pas]

If you have ever heard of anyone being denied a visa and it has had a negative effect on any future visa applications or resulted in the inability to apply again for a certain time period, it is most certainly because that person has tried to mislead the interviewer and or lied in the interviewer. You can find this information on the web site too.

Faux Pas,  I do like your “even keel” if and when our paths cross I would like to buy you a beer and swap stories, I am sure it would be fun!

I agree and I would love to buy you a beer if that opportunity ever does arise. I haven't anywhere advocated that Elena mislead or lie to the consulate. There is a clear and distinct difference in her applying for her visa (which I truly believe she can obtain) on her own and without any help from Chris and lying or misleading. My whole bone of contention is "WHY" bring Chris into the picture where he could possibly do more harm than good?

If asked, there is nothing wrong for her to disclose she knew and dated a American 3 years earlier and unlikely this would count against her. There is also nothing wrong with her planning an itinerary as a Russian tourist that lives in Norway, in America. There is nothing wrong with Chris planning an identical itinerary that has nothing to do with her visa application.

If the success rate is 96% and she clearly has the qualifications, why even bother with the invitation letter? I am a firm believer in doing things the correct and proper way. I am also a believer in recognizing a flaw in the system and using it to accomplish the goal but all clearly within the system. I am no fan of US immigration or Homeland Security for my own reasons. A necessary evil IMO. I do recognize the structured way they must be dealt with and conform to that.

[Faux Pas]

Faux, I would have to say SJ may be more right than you on this issue. Even the terrorists understand they must live in a Western country such as Germany or Canada first before trying to get a visa to come to America. I assume the terrorists did their homework and understand their chance for a visa greatly improves when first living in a country with friendly ties with America. If a person lives in Europe or Canada without causing any problems, I assume their chances to be granted a visa to America greatly improves.

Indeed he may be. That wouldn't be the first time I have been wrong  We don't disagree that Elena can very likely get a visa. Our disagreement is the need for Chris to assist her.