Why Do Some Men Think a Vacation is Good in the Beginning Stage?

[SMS60]

This thread as so many others follow the same pattern. As in real life.

Most of the women posters start pulling around the male posters by the ears and eventually have them fall into line.

 

[Boethius]

Ah, but the "search" would not occur if the women were economically equal, would it?

[Blues Fairy]

Ah, but the "search" would not occur if the women were economically equal, would it?

It would, but the set of motivations would probably be a little different.

[Doll]

Even "monetary" Doll didn't understand BF was talking about money and only!
Wow! Go figure.

[hemingway]

I do not believe every man believes he has some form of ownership just because he pays for expenses. I think such behavior would be a character flaw and not typical.

[Blues Fairy]

Even "monetary" Doll didn't understand BF was talking about money and only!

If you talk about shopping, chances are money will pop up sooner or later.   

[Doll]

If you talk about shopping, chances are money will pop up sooner or later.  

Not sure we are talking about shopping like SHOPPING- depends how you (BF) look at it.

[Blues Fairy]

Not sure we are talking about shopping like SHOPPING- depends how you (BF) look at it.

Doll, I look at it quite simply: equality cannot be feasible unless both behave as equals; be it mutual visits on the home turf or joint vacations, etc etc.  If you say the woman has no chance to "shop" for a mate on equal terms, that means she already has cast herself as his inferior.  What you mean by "no chance" - money or something else - is totally up to you.  On the other hand, if the woman wants to behave as equal, the possibility is always there.  But it's not the man's responsibility to always provide it; that would not be "equal terms". 

[Aloe]

Very simple. First meeting's purpose is to find out if internet personality "chemistry" will be joined by real life chemistry. It doesnt matter where you meet for that, as long as you meet, anywhere will be good enough to understand if you really are attracted to each other. Only after that does it matter to "watch" the other in their natural environment. And i like travelling, so why not make it a vacation?

[BillyB]

Why Do Some Men Think a Vacation is Good in the Beginning Stage?

Because there's too many men that are trying too hard to win a woman over. Maybe they got more money than brains? Maybe they don't know how to date even though they recognized never took an American woman to a romatic city on a first date. Maybe they don't have enough confidence in themselves to catch a woman? Maybe they have sincere intentions and want to show their romatic side but it's risky considering how some women are pro daters with no sincere intentions.

Even when they know there is no hope for a relationship, some guys try hard. I remember reading a guy who knew it was over between him and the RW he visited and he still bought her $400 pair of shoes after she ended the day by taking him shopping.

As far as respect goes, I treat my dates with great respect. How I treat them is not enough for me to continue dating them. Respect must be earned just as I have to earn their respect if I want a second date. A lady being nice to me and treating me with respect is not enough for me to marry them either. There must be other things about them that I respect and they will not have all my respect if they don't display good traits. First date they get treated with respect from me. If I can't see anything good about them, they may be deadbeats and may not have anything about them that's good and of course I won't respect them as much as others who earned it or proved they are deserving of it.

On a first date I will be a gentleman and treat a lady with respect. One lady takes me shopping and another tries to save me some money by walking me two blocks down the street for a cheaper taxi. One lady is earning greater respect and possibly my affection while the other is losing whatever respect I gave her to start the date.

[Jumper]

ummm,
This debate confuses me..

  I hope most date long enough they would know the person well,
and likely have seen them in several enviroments to the point that ANY location wouldnt be a real factor in their relationship... .
if it is ,that is way too soon to be thinking of marriage .
 
I met her both in her home city and also in other countries on vacation ,,it was good for both her ,and myself to see each other in lots of situations ,,
I did enjoy meeting her friends and family ,,
that can be early on or it  can come with time ,,if you arnt rushing things!

I agree with doll in that it would be far better, since the RW is the one relocating in most instances ,if she could visit the man ,,but thats not the likely scenario.

first rule of life is to learn it isnt fair ,if you get past that one ,the rest are pretty easy ..

This situation ,like many in life , isn't fair , so both sides deal with it the best they can.

Most men don't have some *bad* motivation in visiting at the ladies home country!!
 to imply its somehow intentional to put the RW at some disadvantage is silly at best..
Most would certainly prefer she traveled here to meet him ,and to see what life is like here!
and if its something she chooses?

but the RW  simply *is* at a disadvantage in terms of travel freedom ,,
its  a reality!  the WM did not create the situation.
face it both are doing their best with 'how things are"

[GQBlues]

Very simple. First meeting's purpose is to find out if internet personality "chemistry" will be joined by real life chemistry. It doesnt matter where you meet for that, as long as you meet, anywhere will be good enough to understand if you really are attracted to each other. Only after that does it matter to "watch" the other in their natural environment. And i like travelling, so why not make it a vacation?

Without disqualifying the other side of reasons, I completely agree with this. Especially since, or maybe because, I'm a WMVM.

Neither the women or I are committed both to time and association. Especially the very first time meeting. If it resulted in a confirmed mutual interest to progress with the acquaintance and unto a hopeful relationship, then things will naturally take care of itself.

[Misha]

Meeting someone in her city is not all that complicated. You go, you set a date, you meet. Either there is chemistry or there isn't. I dated my wife for two weeks, seeing each other daily, before I met her family. If for whatever reason things hadn't worked out, he family would simply have known that my wife had dated some guy named Misha. Our first date, meeting for a coffee, lasted 6 hours. Fortunately, we had picked a cafe that was open 24 hours as we stayed there until 4am. All told, it was a fun date, no distractions (other than a phone call to her mother warning her not to stay up). We were focused on enjoying our conversation, and do not believe that a first date on a beach would have been any better. But, that is just my point of view.

As for inequities, my wife had family in Europe. A young man there had proposed to her. She said no as she preferred to stay in Russia than be with him in Europe. A woman always has options.

[camachinist]

A vacation is not necessary to get to know your lady

One option is to visit during their 'vacation', like a holiday period, such as, in Ukraine, Christmas. People are often off-work, parties abound, they roll out the red carpet for visitors and the vodka (and wine) flows. I found it a great time to just be there. Personally, I liked the 'immersion' into family and friends and the festive spirit which imbued the homes I visited. Even traveling, on the trains or buses, there was a sense of holiday spirit which made for a memorable time.

[kievstar]

I see nothing wrong with meeting a woman in a foreign country.  But for me that would not work as I rejected most of the women I met within first 5 minutes of physical meeting.  So for me to plan on meeting someone for 10 days I rejected would not work. 

[camachinist]

For me that would not work as I rejected most of the women I met within first 5 minutes of physical meeting.  So for me to plan on meeting someone for 10 days I rejected would not work.

As long as you have a guide you can call on for logistics, why not just enjoy the place and meet people as they present themselves? Perhaps meet one or two ladies with whom one has corresponded, but don't let the trip hinge on those meetings. Once away from the large cities, and I personally prefer that, you'll probably be the only 'westerner' around. Heck, even spending two weeks in Odessa, a large, cosmopolitan city, I never saw another person, save for my interpreter, who spoke English. You stand out. People notice. No shortage of impromptu meetings with ladies young and old. Just get out and walk around. Even in the dead of winter, people are out.

It sounds like your perspective is one of immediate 'chemistry' or 'spark'. If it's not there in the first five minutes, for you, it will never be there. OK, go with that. I'm sure it works the same on your home turf. Think of the FSU/CIS as the same thing only different dirt, and a place where your 'accent' turns heads

[Chicagoguy]

camachinest - Your idea is great for FSU/CIS and I agree 100 %. But what if you discover it isn't working when you now have a 1 week reservation at a resort in Turkey. I don't think the Muslim girls there will be too excited to see you.

[Misha]

camachinest - Your idea is great for FSU/CIS and I agree 100 %. But what if you discover it isn't working when you now have a 1 week reservation at a resort in Turkey. I don't think the Muslim girls there will be too excited to see you.

Well, from what I have heard, in some Turkish resorts you will only find Russians as you have several million Russians traveling to Turkey every year to go on vacation, including many single women 

[camachinist]

IDK, how about Kazakhstan? 

To me, it's no different than getting ditched in Hawaii or St. John. Someone hands one lemons; one makes lemonade. I actually had this happen on my first trip, only a couple weeks prior to leaving, and had to scramble to make alternative plans. This is why having contacts in place, like a guide, interpreter or driver, pay off, even if it's a 'vacation' destination. Locals know people and how to have a good time.

My most recent 'vacation' plans prospectively include a trip on the Trans-Siberian (train) and stopping along the way to 'visit' people. I see such as 'beginnings', if anything. Anything worthwhile takes time and investment, IMO. It's a small world.

[Chicagoguy]

Indeed camachinest, you did well ! It couldn't have been easy.

[camachinist]

Yes, that was back when I thought a 14.4K modem was fast, and pictures on the computer were a luxury 

I learned the value of the people I mentioned (especially my interpreter, whom I chatted with on ICQ regularly, even years after my trips), as well as the generosity of Ukrainians in general, in one instance having my bacon (due to a travel delay) saved by a Ukrainian guy who flew on the plane from Chicago with me. He and his family set me up well (safe hotel and got my visa registered) for a couple of days until I got the feel of things. I still have his scribbled English and Cyrillic (for directions locally) contact information after all these years.

Nowadays, with internet access and mobile phones everywhere, even a totally destroyed plan is quickly and easily recoverable. TBH, I could've just walked along the streets of Odessa or Lviv (two places I went, amongst others) and recovered the plan merely by ducking into doorways which looked inviting. It's no different from Hong Kong or Bejing or NYC (if you're a foreigner to those places). People are people everywhere.

I personally prefer, just like here at home, to meet, greet and get to know one person at a time.... over there, I just met a new 'people' every few days, and, over time, a couple stood out. That's why I recommend anyone going to get a driver, an apartment and plan on staying 2-4 weeks at a time. Immerse. Hop on a bus. Take a train. Love the trains, especially pooping right onto the tracks on a freezing January night. 

 

[I/O]

Doll: Shopping it is, she gets to shop from the comfort of her lounge room (home turf) and he gets to shop on vacation (her turf) where his friends and locals can't hold him accountable for his actions later. Or, they may both go on a shopping vacation, even together.

Equality? Don't know and don't care one way or another but in a decade of travel I have yet to see a compelling argument or evidence this is any much other than shopping for a better buy. Is shopping bad? IMO it is not but "Caveat Emptor"...................

[kievstar]

When I got serious to find a wife it was all business and not a holiday.  Flew within 2 weeks of first seeing her picture on internet and talking on phone with agency worker about her. Did a one day visit.  Than came back less than 2 weeks later. 

I have been to turkey a lot and not impressed with the RW I have seen there.  I am picky and went through hundreds of women in many countries during my search (including USA).  I know within 5 minutes if a woman is right and we have equal chemistry.  An agency that has maybe 300-400 new girls maybe 0 or 1 will work.  So the odds of me finding someone as a backup plan in Turkey and Egypt is slim to none.

When I was looking for a wife I was focused on finding a wife and not going to museums, discos, etc. I found this process easy in finding my wife.  I think it was easy as I was focuseds on finding a wife and not screwing around.  I could go through 60 to 80 face to face meetings in a week easily. 

I also found that it was easy for my wife to adjust to the USA.  Why because I focused on her adjusting to the USA.  Listened to people here and talked with expats.  There is no reason anybody should ever get culture shock.  Can be prevented with right preparations. 

If your focused on something, you get it done.  If your focused on to many thinks and not 100%, you get poor results.

[Markus]

I hope, guys, there is no assumption like "I know I am very good, so I only need to see how good she is". If there is then I call it "assumicide".  

Is a man not allowed to know who he is and know he is very good? Where's the problem? And Doll, I'm only kidding. That would be arrogance. But there is
a difference between being confident and being arrogant, neither of which equal truth all of the time.

Do you really want to know the truth? RW know all these little tricks- most of them.
Who doesn't know how much Americans are into money! Everybody knows. So, the woman can be "concerned about the cost of the hotel" and this will not stop her to spend money like a crazy after she is married to you.
Come on, boys!
RW have their own "don't"- like you do. Don't send money to RW, don't take her shopping  or what are they- these warnings (never read them all).
Don't ask American for money, don't ask for gifts or expensive vacations.
90% of RW know it and they are really careful.

Now this just isn't fair  . The men's list is published on this board but where are we to read about the ladies' list?

JohnBoatGuy, I mean BoaterGuy provided an example of a why to my question. I can't say anything bad about his example as I may need someone to take me fishing since I don't
have a boat. Seriously though, his example is a reason that was perhaps necessary to get the ball rolling.  

If 90% of RW know not to ask for money, and asking for a vacation is asking for money, that means only 10% of RW would ask for a vacation, which leads one to conclude that
vacations are initiated by the man. I'm only asking why (the title). Maybe taking a vacation is an excellent thing to do, I don't know. I just think missing some of the things I described in
my 1st post are better to experience than going to some beach.

[Markus]

I have been to turkey a lot and not impressed with the RW I have seen there.  I am picky and went through hundreds of women in many countries during my search (including USA).  I know within 5 minutes if a woman is right and we have equal chemistry.  An agency that has maybe 300-400 new girls maybe 0 or 1 will work.  So the odds of me finding someone as a backup plan in Turkey and Egypt is slim to none.

5 minutes? I'm going to go with about 4 minutes for me. Perhaps that's why I don't understand the why on the vacations. A man's 5 minutes might be 5 months or 5 years.

If your focused on something, you get it done.  If your focused on to many thinks and not 100%, you get poor results.

I like your thinking here. Why make the process difficult with the hassles of a vacation?