When its not just about you and her

[facetrock]

Mies what law would Charles be breaking? I bet none. So you pay a guy to sign off on his child so the kid can leave the country, not uncommon but rarely talked about or admitted too by foreign men. I know women that have moved out of state here to get married. The men here allowed it but made the women give up all claims on future child support. No money changed hands but there is still money involved. Nothing illegal about it here.

  Besides, I seriously doubt if the Moldova police would even care if Charles forked over some cash to an ex for permission for the kid to leave. The only thing they would interested in is getting a cut if they knew about it! Its not human trafficking. The mother is going with the child. Its not like the kid is going alone with some child molester.

   Personally I would meet with the father. But thats just me. Some here would be terrified to do that but not me. Sorry if that offends some of the weaker men here.
 
Mies, some men here are afraid of their own shadow, see a scammer in every woman they meet from the FSU. A lot of them here cant make a decision about a woman when they do meet. Then there are the ones who have never been to the FSU but act as if they grew up there. 

  I have been to Moldova, Russia and Ukraine and the odds of you getting involved with the mafia by chasing skirt over there are slim and none. The mafia honestly doesnt care about some woman with a kid that has a dead beat drunk for an ex. Far bigger fish to fry in their world.

  In Charles case. This man that never admitted to being the father finds out all he has to do to get some money is sign a paper to let the kid leave the country would run, and I mean literally run to Charles to sign and collect. Easy to see.

 

[William3rd]

Charles enters dimly lit cafe and meets up with ex. The ex introduces himself as ex (?). The ex asks for $10,000 cash to give permission for child to travel to the US. Charles hands over the roll (money). The ex stuffs the roll in his jacket and exits out the back door and disappears. Charles is left sitting in the cafe with a blank stare. Pondering what just happened.

Charles immediatly calls fiancee. She repeats over and over...... I dont understand..... I dont know......I dont know............ I dont understand........What?

Charles now realizes he's been had. He can do nothing.

Cant go to the authorities. He is in a strange country with no rights or knowlege of how the system works. If they do listen they will see that he was trying to buy a child to take to the US. (human trafficking) for his girlfreind.........Most places illegal. They could throw Charles in the tank. Charles does not even know if the ex was the real ex.. I doubt they read each others passports.

He's done.

Dont get involved Charles...... Stay out of it.

Should be done with the conniving snake he is engaged to as well.  Itrs not human trafficking at all, folks. Travel permission  is all it its.  In tn many states moveaways require consent or la court decision.

[CharlesR]

Should be done with the conniving snake he is engaged to as well.

Plz tell me you didn't just say that. Your opinion is valued, but regardless of what you may think of her, have a little respect for me. If anyone is to blame here it would be me. I have failed to give all the details and the history behind this man, and my girl simply because it would have been very lengthly, and going into her past on an open board is something I try to be careful with.  My whole point was to to get to the point, and how to deal with the situation.
Four years ago, my girl had married a man. They had started the paperwork to relocate. When the man found out, he asked for a payoff. Well, the man she married had died before the the move was made. Everysince, he has hounded her for a DNA test, seeing how this situation could rise again, thus giving him the leverage he needs to make demands. In the beginning of this thread, I put myself in this situation to protect her history on an open board. She really believes that if he finds out he will try and make problems. I hope this can help clarify things a little. The only tricks/scams are on the behalf of the so called father. If I have caused confusion here then thats on me, not her. I'm simply thinking out loud as to how to deal with the situation should it arise.  

[mies]

I have been to Moldova, Russia and Ukraine and the odds of you getting involved with the mafia by chasing skirt over there are slim and none.

I am not talking about mafia. I am talking about normal people, who easily break the law, and bribe to avoid the charges, or bribe to get what they need, play the system. Mafia may or may not be involved, but corruption is there. And Charles may get in trouble, while you and Billy will be sitting comfortably in your chairs at home, continuing talking about "being a man" and "having a spine".

as for your  first question: that depends how the judge will look at it.

Since you claim that you know Moldova, Russia, and Ukraine so well - you probably know that if the man never admitted he is the father - his permission isn't needed for a child to leave the country. I don't see why he should be offered money.

Charles - the ex may want to do DNA test - because this is the only way he can prove that this is his child. But even when he proves - he still does not have any legal rights to participate in child's life until a court decision will be made. The whole court process may take very long time. What you and this woman need to do - stop telling the ex your plans. Tell him the engagement is off, you broke up, no relocation. Meanwhile - proceed with paperwork. And forget about paying him anything, or talking to him at all. You don't need his permission as it is now.

Imagine you want to build a house, and have purchased a piece of land.
Then some guy, a total stranger, tells you
guy: "hey, pay me or I won't allow you to use this land."
you:  "who are you?"
guy:  "I liked this land before, but i have not bought it"
you:  "so do you own this land or what?"
guy: "no, I don't really own it, but i am planning to buy it, and i may get preferrential treatment because in the past it belonged to my grandfather"
you:  "so you have no rights for this land?"
guy: "at the moment no, but I am going to buy it, so you better pay me now until i started the whole process of buying the land"
you: "ok, i changed my mind, i'm not going to build anything"
guy: "but how about paying me?"
you: "what for?"
guy: "for the right to build here"
you: "i told you - i've changed my mind, not going to build anything, and will sell this land. don't want it anymore. get lost."

Bring this woman to USA, marry this woman, adopt her child, and the ex will never again be of any problem to your family.

i'm out of this topic, Charles- good luck.

[facetrock]

 Mies I know there is corruption in Moldova and people will break the law when they know they can get away with it and it will benefit them. That happens here too. Moldova doesnt have a monopoly on people like that.
  This is not a case of human trafficking, not even close in my opinion. It may not be legal but how do you prove it isnt or if a crime really occured?  Who would know money changed hands and if it is illegal why would the ex ever say a word about it?

  I said before that here in the states women I have known wanted to move far from the ex and needed his permission to take the kids with her. The ex agreed but only if she agreed to end child support. Is that legal? I dont know but I do know if the woman doesnt want child support and is on no government assistance she can opt out. She gets to move and he no longer has a garnished check. Thats a payoff for both.

  I still think paying off the ex in the FSU is not that uncommon. Does anyone here really believe the Militsa would try to track down some foreign guy because he paid for the ex husbands permission to let the kid leave the country.
I think it would be a cold day in hell when that happened.

From Charles last post its obvious the guy wants money and the reason he wants a blood test is so he can extort some money from whoever marrys this woman when its proven he is the father. Doesnt surprise me from someone that lives in Moldova. Desperate people do desperate things.

[Boethius]

Paying off an ex occurs when he is listed on the child's birth certificate as the father.  His permission is required before the child can leave the country.  If a man is not listed on a child's birth certificate, his permission is not required.

Charles, every fact you leave out changes the answers you will be given, and how to approach a problem.  So it's important not to leave out facts.

[BillyB]

Mies, if guys like Charles want to be with their woman, they should not dismiss any option even if it's an option that makes you uncomfortable. There are many factors for guys like Charles to consider. Going to court will be time consuming, paying off the ex could be expensive and quicker but maybe still cheaper than court. Time is an issue and one should consider choosing doing a first option that has a high rate of success. If going to court doesn't work, paying off the ex will get much more expensive so one should only go to court if they are pretty sure they are going to win. As it stands now, the ex is not legally the father and I think Charles, his lady and child can leave the county no problem but even so, Charles need to do some additional research to be sure.

Athough not pertaining to Charles but may be of some interest, here's what a Russian based attorney said about the issue in Russia. It's the 2nd question and answer at this link. It surprised me to read that a child can leave the country without father's consent but it is just safer to get him to terminate his parental rights.

http://russian-divorce.com/index.php?rub=9

[mies]

Mies, if guys like Charles want to be with their woman, they should not dismiss any option even if it's an option that makes you uncomfortable. There are many factors for guys like Charles to consider. Going to court will be time consuming, paying off the ex could be expensive and quicker but maybe still cheaper than court.

Billy: i said i'm out of this topic, but will write more.  

currently - the ex does not have any parental rights. they don't need to go to court. ex is just some guy this woman had sex with in the past. Legally - he has no relation to the baby, or to this woman. We didn't know it in the beginning of the thread, but later Charles shared with us more details.

consider several scenarios:

1. Charles do not pay. They go through the visa process, go to the airport, take the flight, come to USA. Ex continues demanding money and telling some threats. Charles adopts the child. End of story.

2. Charles pays ex. They go through the visa process. He attaches the "permit" from ex to the application package. Whoever is reading this visa application package asks
- "what's this?"
- Charles says "it's a permit of child's father".
- "but there is no father on the birth certificate. Who is this guy? how can you prove he is the father?"
- "he told so and we paid him to obtain permit"
- ?????

same scene in the airport. woman gives her passport along with permit. border officer:
- "what's this?"
- "permit from father"
- "but accordingly to documents your child doesn't have official father. Who is this man?"
- "he just wanted to give permit, because we paid for this permit"
- ?????

Legally - the ex cannot even say in this "permit" "I am child's father" - because this fact isn't proven. There is no evidence right now proving that he is a father. If mother says he isn't - the only way he can prove it is via genetic expertise, and subsequent court decision. It's a long and expensive process.

I think - people like discussed ex - need to be given stick instead of a carrot.
This particular woman may calculate how much he owes her in child support for the previous years, then - find out how much genetic expertise will cost (because ex will have to pay for it), then - calculate how much he would have to pay in child support until the child will be 18. And if the ex will contact her ever again about genetic expertise - tell him these three numbers. The first one - for genetic expertise plus legal fees - is what he would have to pay right now, the second number - what he owes her for previous years - that she will request from him via court - if this child would be found to be his. and third number - how much he will pay for the years to come. Plus - the child will have the right to inherit whatever this guy owns. Let the guy know that prospects of him getting money - are slim, but chances of him spending lots of money - are high. Right now - ex views the baby as the milk cow, and only sees the bright side for himself. Show him the gloomy side, and make him understand that he may lose much, and win nothing.

[Gator]

what if no "father" was listed at birth certificate? Some women don't list any father at all.

Is this the case with Charles' fiancee?  I have not read a statement by Charles that no one is listed as "Father" on the birth certificate, just that the "claimant" is not listed.

If no one is listed, the claimant perhaps could create a legal mess if he knew how to intercede (send a letter to USCIS or a letter to Moldovan passport control).

If I were Charles, I would retain a Moldovan attorney and determine whether the claimant has any legal standing.  That would not cost much, and it is better than confronting the claimant or otherwise developing angst over hypothetical scenarios.

[mies]

If I were Charles, I would retain a Moldovan attorney and determine whether the claimant has any legal standing.  That would not cost much, and it is better than confronting the claimant or otherwise developing angst over hypothetical scenarios.

I agree 100% - this is the best advice.
My ukrainian male friend recently had a baby with his girlfriend. They never cared to get officially married with his girflriend, so when the baby was born - he needed to fill in several forms - to prove that he confirms he is the father of the baby, bring these forms in person to the authority dealing with registration of babies, the process took more than one day. His girlfriend would not have been able to get a record of a guy being a father of the baby without his official/formal consent - because they weren't married.
It's not quite clear whether in Charle's story the woman and her ex were married. If they were married when child was born - the husband automatically is considered a father of the baby, and appears as such in all documents, including - birth certificate. Then he was supposed to pay child support.

[CharlesR]

No one listed on B/C. Never married to this man.

[Vaughn]

No one listed on B/C. Never married to this man.

These revelations change everything dramatically. Hire the attorney anyway to cover
your bases.