One Agency Refuses to Accept Texas Customers

[Sculpto]

LOL nice try Jack.. no one complains about you publicly because of your reputation for character destruction.  So.. go ahead.. blah blah all you want.. I am 100% immune to you.  Perhaps you forgot the lecture you got from me about professionalism on the other forum?

[Jack]

uhhh, sculpto, what name was you using?  And again, WHY are you always "having" to change your name?

[Seeker]

Dudes... this is not the place.  Fight it out in PM's or email...

Please?

[Sculpto]

Seeker.. don't worry, I am done with Jack.. when it was convenient for him to be my friend he was, well, for as long as he thought I might be a client.. but I called him out on the other forum for some really unprofessional behavior, which he has repeated all over the internet for years, and he has had it out for me since.  No surprises here.. quite frankly, it is exactly this sort of reaction and baiting that gives me pause and reason to bring this topic back to its original intent..

Given the nature of some agency owners to engage en character assaults on the internet.. what would make anyone think they they engage in ethical business practices, both from the standpoint of the paying clients, and the ladies the represent, and that said business practices are in the best interests of customer service and result in happy marriages? 

If marriage agencies got regulated out of existence it would in my not so subtle opinion be the elimination of perhaps the most parasitic business on earth.  Good riddance.

[Seeker]

I am just trying to stop something that seems to be happening, and it has crossed over into other threads.  Either of you... start one in NHB if you want to try and discuss this, but it needs to be in one thread and on topic.  It takes down the whole forum when any personal difference becomes a repeated argument across all of the threads.

[Jack]

good idea seeker, I will post my rebuttal to sculpto in NHB.

[Seeker]

good idea seeker, I will post my rebuttal to sculpto in NHB.

Keep it civil... and I hope 2012isFiction will do the same.

Respect is important, realizing that even if we disagree, we each have a right to our own opinion.  Here and in real life, we are judged by our actions and reactions.

Even though we are not face to face, we should still act as if we were. 

{edited to correct bad grammar}

[GQBlues]

GQ, can you imagine a WW getting into a cab with 2 unknown men?

Hhhmmm, nope. But I got into a car with at least 2 unknown women so many times in my life. Happily.

Does that count? 

Anyway, so much testosterone in this thread hardly makes one wonder WHY Federal/State regulations are warranted in the MOB biz. LOL.

[BillyB]

After considerable thought I have concluded this nor IMBRA has anything to do with Feminism.  

Don't need to think about it, follow the money and learn who lobbied the government to shut down marriage agencies. It's not about protecting foreign women triggered after a few RW got murdered. Those incidences were only fuel for the fire. If protecting foreign women were the real goal, dating sites wouldn't be exempt.

Most men aren't abusers and are willing to do most anything for their woman and make the ultimate sacrifice giving their life to protect their woman. Why create laws that hassle most law abiding citizens? If our society deems a man who has a violent and criminal past shouldn't be marrying anybody, then there should be a law targeting those men and everytime they use their SS# to register to marry in the States or apply for a k-1 or k-3 visa, it should set off alarms and he should be denied by our government. Simple! A law like that will not create hassles for most men and marriage agencies will not go out of business do to lack of customers or assumed liability. Instead we create laws that don't solve the problem and donations are always going to be needed to keep up the good fight.

Hey Jack, has IMBRA or similar State laws affected your business? Have some men stopped using agencies just because the extra hassles and turned to dating sites instead?

[Boethius]

Hhhmmm, nope. But I got into a car with at least 2 unknown women so many times in my life. Happily.

Does that count? 

My husband says that can be even more dangerous than getting into a car with 2 unknown men.

But then, he's married to me.

[Doll]

Actually American women are far more at risk and of course there is risk to AM as well. 

How are they more at risk than RW?

[Jack]

Hey Jack, has IMBRA or similar State laws affected your business? Have some men stopped using agencies just because the extra hassles and turned to dating sites instead?

BillyB business has been greatly effected, but not so much by IMBRA. The economy, or as referred to in Ukraine as, "the crisis", has had the greatest effect on the lack of business. Today there are 50% of the men who are going to Ukraine and Russia as compared to two years ago.  I have seen over a dozen good foreign agencies that have bit the dust over the past year just because they did not have enough business.  The few, and I think only, agencies who are making money today are mostly the larger scam agencies.  EM could be the only exception. The scamming coming from video chat today is unbelievable.  And one thing that IMBRA did was to make scamming from the bigger agencies more efficient. 

In reality IMBRA has only effected a small number of agencies. The agencies who sold addresses were the most effected.  E.C. is the largest agency most effected.   Address sales was never a great money maker for us, heck I probably gave away more addresses that we sold.

IMBRA has really not effected that many smart men. Today we see fewer men, yes, but that's due to the world economy, not IMBRA.  A great many, over 90%, of our clients are dealing directly with Ukraine and Russian agencies who are not bound by American law. A great many, over 90%, of our clients are using internet sites that are not effected by IMBRA.  A great many, well over 90%, of our clients are meeting ladies at clubs, meeting ladies at restaurants, while bowling, dancing, playing billiards, while walking down the street, having there profile seen at nail salons, hair salons, clothing boutique stores, places not effected by IMBRA.

[BillyB]

A great many, over 90%, of our clients are dealing directly with Ukraine and Russian agencies who are not bound by American law. A great many, over 90%, of our clients are using internet sites that are not effected by IMBRA.  

I thought foreign agencies must follow IMBRA rules with their American customers otherwise, American man signs up, writes lady, meets lady, gets engaged to lady and k-1 denied because IMBRA rules violated no fault to  American customer and fiancee who were never educated on IMBRA.

The scamming coming from video chat today is unbelievable.  And one thing that IMBRA did was to make scamming from the bigger agencies more efficient.

I believe it. I've read some agencies new policies. Agencies now tell men in the name of protecting women according to IMBRA, they aren't allowed to give out contact info such as addresses, phone numbers, and emails so men are force to speak to the ladies on expensive video chat.


Although the bad economy affected your business, it's hard to estimate how much IMBRA affected it. If Maryland has it's way, men will have to submit 2 sets of fingerprints before being able to legally write a woman. More and more men won't put up with the hassles and just use dating sites.

[Sculpto]

this first report is from 2001 http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/218557.pdf

this one from the same author from 2004 http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/marriage_agencies_fsu.pdf

minister of internal affairs from belarus report to the UN from 2007.  http://www.un.int/belarus/conference/statement_naumov_en.pdf

a long UN report which includes many countries http://www.unodc.org/documents/human-trafficking/Marika-Misc/BP017TechnologyandHumanTrafficking.pdf

very long report for police published by the US department of justice.. MOB stuff starts on page 4 http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/pop/e02061007.pdf

[Jack]

I thought foreign agencies must follow IMBRA rules

BillyB, Ukraine marriage agencies, Russian marriage agencies, Belarus marriage agencies, etc, are NOT subject to American law's in there own country.   

otherwise, American man signs up, writes lady, meets lady, gets engaged to lady and k-1 denied because IMBRA rules violated no fault to  American customer and fiancee who were never educated on IMBRA.

BIllyB if you meet a Russian woman from a Russian personal website, like mamba for example, and you marry this woman, or want to marry this woman, IMBRA has no effect on meeting Russian or Ukraine ladies from one of hundreds of Russian personal websites. 

If a man meets a Russian or Ukraine woman on match.com, E-harmony and a handful of other sites like this, IMBRA does not apply.

If a man meets a Russian or Ukraine woman at a Kharkov disco, and he wants to marry her, IMBRA has no effect.  If a man meets a Russian/Ukraine lady while they are sitting next to each other on the subway, IMBRA has no effect.

How did I meet my future Russian/Ukraine wife?  Not sure, maybe at a restaurant.

[BC]

BillyB, Ukraine marriage agencies, Russian marriage agencies, Belarus marriage agencies, etc, are NOT subject to American law's in there own country. 

The intent of IMBRA was never to punish the man and woman involved, but instead agencies that don't comply.  A foreign company or it's de facto owners can certainly be charged with violating this law and if so may have to wear confining jewelry (handcuffs) if they set foot on US soil, or other countries that have enforcement agreements with the US.

I doubt that any couple involved would face trouble for properly and honestly completing the immigration forms.

It seems though that it's all a pretty mute argument so far as there seems to be little or no interest enforcing this law either in or out of the US.  That may change next time something bad happens with a couple who did use the services of a non compliant marriage agency. 

BIllyB if you meet a Russian woman from a Russian personal website, like mamba for example, and you marry this woman, or want to marry this woman, IMBRA has no effect on meeting Russian or Ukraine ladies from one of hundreds of Russian personal websites. 

If a man meets a Russian or Ukraine woman on match.com, E-harmony and a handful of other sites like this, IMBRA does not apply.

If a man meets a Russian or Ukraine woman at a Kharkov disco, and he wants to marry her, IMBRA has no effect.  If a man meets a Russian/Ukraine lady while they are sitting next to each other on the subway, IMBRA has no effect.

How did I meet my future Russian/Ukraine wife?  Not sure, maybe at a restaurant.

For once, I'll agree with you 100% and just add it to the heap of evidence that marriage agencies and social introduction services are not needed at all.

I'll even go as far as propose a new commandment for RWD...  "Don't ask (or worse pay) others to do for you what you can do better yourself".

[BillyB]

BillyB, Ukraine marriage agencies, Russian marriage agencies, Belarus marriage agencies, etc, are NOT subject to American law's in there own country.   

I understand that and the rest of what you said. What I'm asking is if an American guy uses a foreign base agency who does not comply with IMBRA and didn't tell his customers and lady what must happen before they have communication and meeting, can they get denied a visa. I'm sure they would be denied. You are right they are not subject to American laws in their country but IMBRA is worded in a way that if they don't comply, they are screwing their customers and ladys.

Just wait till all 50 States come up with various requirments for men using an agency from having police reports to being fingerprint to having to submit DNA records. 51 different State and Federal requirements. You may have some fun in the near future educating yourself to properly educate your customers and ladies. I've never used an agency and now I have more reasons to avoid them with added hassles.

[GQBlues]

I've never used an agency and now I have more reasons to avoid them with added hassles.

That seem/sounded rather strange, Billy.

The legislation isn't asking people, who otherwise doesn't have a rap sheet, to jump over the River Kwai and execute a perfect triple somersaut with a 1/2 twist, feet together and toes pointed, and dive on a full extension (!?), as a necessary step to participate in the MOB industry. Is a simple protocol so unbearable that you would rather seek to circumvent it along with those who otherwise have reason to do so - because somehow you feel the legislation have loopholes?

Did I understand you correctly?

[BillyB]

That seem/sounded rather strange, Billy.

If Maryland pass their MOB laws, don't you think it's strange for a Maryland man not able to write ladies until he gets 2 sets of fingerprints and submit them to an agency? Yeah, I can imaging guys rushing to their local fingerprinting store to quickly write to smokinhotkova they just seen on the internet! It's just better to turn the channel to a dating site and write the ladies instantly without having to get fingerprints or submit background checks or police reports. Every State may have different requirements but one thing is for sure, overall requirements will be stricter than IMBRA since IMBRA currently is not working to shut down the MOB industry effectively.

[Gylden]

Actually Billy, it is even easier than that, as others have suggested, you can just lie about where you met your GF.

[BC]

Actually Billy, it is even easier than that, as others have suggested, you can just lie about where you met your GF.

Now that would be against the law.

Lets say some future whistle blower manages to get immigration authorities all the records of an agency you used.. and they start digging through letters between you and your now wife and comparing with the data with your K 1 application.. hmm.. met at a restaraunt..

From the 129F:

PENALTIES: You may by law be imprisoned for not more than five years, or fined $250,000, or both, for entering into a marriage contract for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws, and you may be fined up to $10,000 or imprisoned up to five years, or both, for knowingly and willfully falsifying or concealing a material fact or using any false document in submitting this petition.

Really worth evading a question that won't make the least bit of difference anyway, regardless whether or not the agency complied with IMBRA?
 

[Gylden]

LOL, I guess I should have written a disclaimer. I was being sarcastic.....and did a poor job I see.
 

[GQBlues]

If Maryland pass their MOB laws, don't you think it's strange for a Maryland man not able to write ladies until he gets 2 sets of fingerprints and submit them to an agency? Yeah, I can imaging guys rushing to their local fingerprinting store to quickly write to smokinhotkova they just seen on the internet! It's just better to turn the channel to a dating site and write the ladies instantly without having to get fingerprints or submit background checks or police reports. Every State may have different requirements but one thing is for sure, overall requirements will be stricter than IMBRA since IMBRA currently is not working to shut down the MOB industry effectively.

How many set is required? A dozen?  2 dozens maybe? How about some fries with that? LOL. $50 filing fee? Cash, cashier's check, or will they accept American Express?

If this is the avenue I would like to pursue and I have NO criminal past, the process is a, to quote the late Chick Hearn, "Slaaaam Duuunk! The jello's jigglin' and the butter's gettin' hard, baby!". I have nothing to hide. Heck, I've even paid my parking ticket the very next day I got it in the past.

I'm not going to pick fly sh!t out of peppers, man. If I want to pursue what it is I want to do then this really isn't a big deal. It's all a very simple process to comply to.

So I'm at a lost why should you subject yourself into doing the things men who had a history of predating, beating, and/or abusing women have to do these days? It's a hassle, yes, but only for those meant to be hassled, LOL. That's a meaty part of the package. Why would you feel hassled? What is the reason for that?

Lastly, if agencies are so threatened of losing businesses from these scums, then how much more clarity does anyone need to see through this clearly?

[BillyB]

Actually Billy, it is even easier than that, as others have suggested, you can just lie about where you met your GF.

I'm sure the criminally insane hellbent on marrying a foreign woman will do just that. More proof why IMBRA and the crusade going on from State to State is not going to work and only wasting your donations to the special interest groups campaigning and your tax dollars when the laws are in effect.

So I'm at a lost why should you subject yourself into doing the things men who had a history of predating, beating, and/or abusing women have to do these days? It's a hassle, yes, but only for those meant to be hassled, LOL. That's a meaty part of the package. Why would you feel hassled? What is the reason for that?

It's natural if there is more hassle, there will be less people willing to accept it and take an easier route with the same results using a dating site or as Glyden mention, lie on how they met.

GQ don't you think it's easier for our government to use SS# to track people. People apply for k-1, k-3, or a marriage license right here at home and if the person is a convicted felon whether they are a man or woman, the government will notify their potential spouse that they are marrying or married a convicted felon, sex abuser, or one found guilty of DV?  It not only protects foreign women at marriage agencies, it will protect all foreign and domestic woman and men. It protects everybody. It's so simple but like I said, when the problems are solved, the need for more taxes and the donations to solve the problem stop. Don't you think there is a better solution that solves the problem, costing less $ in taxes, with less hassles against those who are innocent? If so, stop trying to convince us IMBRA and the crusade to add new laws on the MOB industry from State to State is satisfactory.

It's funny, criminals will lie how they met their foreign woman, problems will persist, special rights group gathers donations to lobby for new laws, since the old laws aren't effectively working, that not only require background checks and fingerprinting, but will in the future ask for your DNA too. That really gets me motivated to run down to the clinic, get my blood taken for an expensive DNA test, wait weeks or months for the results so I can finally legally be able to communicate with a woman. Like I said earlier, I'd rather change the channel to a dating site. For the record my DNA and fingerprints are on record with the US Army. What good reasons would I need to pay to have it taken again? It's ridiculous to have those things done just to say an innocent "hello" to a woman.

[GQBlues]

Because the government is not on the wholesale business of corraling citizens with sketchy past, or worst reformed convicts UNTIL a crime is committed. I'm not so sure why you're playing possum and pretending you do not understand this. IF these folks supply what is required of them - the onus is then left up for the women to make their own decision. The government had done what it's responsibly obligated to do for licensing and certifying these agencies to do business in the US. Just like that silly little warning on every cigarette packs. THAT is the extent the government can do to regulate this. There are no governmental thumbprint on any discos in FSU, nor have they certified any sidewalks in FSU.

The affected agencies' concern about the possible revenue loss to these legislations is directly proportionate to the money, time, and energy they invest in lawyers trying to curb these legislations. What message is that sending you? That they've heavily invested to protect your interest and fight for your right? LOL. Please....

Why this boondazzles some of you is beyond me.