wondering if i said something offensive to a Ukrainian woman

[Daveman]

Lots of cool stuff here so far... you got some perspectives..

One thing I'd add.. Do not get into the habit of saying "I'm sorry" over trivial nonsense.  Just pretend it never happened and move on.  Give her some flowers (because you like her, not to apologize) if you want but don't mention this thing again.  No need really.  

[Doll]

I don't hate when people here recognize a Russian in me or they want to talk about Russia. It is ok, all people are curious. Yet, if the talk is not respectful I stop it an walk away (will hardly ever talk to this person again)
I did leave my country 8 years ago but I am Russian and proud of it. Mostly people respect it (or seem to).
So, I don't consider people who want to talk about Russia idiots, not at all.

[He HATO]

     Having personally been in the middle of the NATO Fire that was 2006 in Crimea, I personally avoid it all together.  If someone (new that I am talking to who is from Ukraine) mentions or asks how I got involved, I tell them my story. However, I do not tell them whether or not I believe the reason the USA was in Crimea (and had been each year since 1996) is a good thing or not.  That is for them to decide.  I just inform them what we were doing, that we had no weapons of mass destruction, we were not trying to take over their country, and most importantly... we were NOT NATO! albeit the US is a member of NATO, we were not there on a NATO Mission in any way.

      Regardless of all that, you also have to take into account whether the person you are talking to is from the Western Part of Ukraine or the Eastern or Southern Parts, as the Southern and Eastern Parts are more apt to be Pro Russian whereas the Western parts are more apt to be pro west. 

     But, I wold recommend in the future, you do like my stepmom told me to do when I was little... there were three things you did not talk about at the table... Religion, Politics and John Wayne...  Why John Wayne?  Cause he is (or was) as big or bigger than religion or politics..and, after all, he was (and still is) "The Duke"!

If anyone wants to hear about my adventures in Ukraine (as "NATO") please let me know...I'll be happy to share them

[Seeker]

     Having personally been in the middle of the NATO Fire that was 2006 in Crimea, I personally avoid it all together.  If someone (new that I am talking to who is from Ukraine) mentions or asks how I got involved, I tell them my story. However, I do not tell them whether or not I believe the reason the USA was in Crimea (and had been each year since 1996) is a good thing or not.  That is for them to decide.  I just inform them what we were doing, that we had no weapons of mass destruction, we were not trying to take over their country, and most importantly... we were NOT NATO! albeit the US is a member of NATO, we were not there on a NATO Mission in any way.

      Regardless of all that, you also have to take into account whether the person you are talking to is from the Western Part of Ukraine or the Eastern or Southern Parts, as the Southern and Eastern Parts are more apt to be Pro Russian whereas the Western parts are more apt to be pro west. 

     But, I wold recommend in the future, you do like my stepmom told me to do when I was little... there were three things you did not talk about at the table... Religion, Politics and John Wayne...  Why John Wayne?  Cause he is (or was) as big or bigger than religion or politics..and, after all, he was (and still is) "The Duke"!

If anyone wants to hear about my adventures in Ukraine (as "NATO") please let me know...I'll be happy to share them

Personally I would love to hear the stories of adventure (and an insider glimpse to what none of us really know).  And as a side note... There was only one great John Wayne movie... "The Cowboys".   

I am not sure where the best place to post it is, but I would like to hear your story.

[Shadow]

As has been mentioned, be very careful discussing any political issue. First you need to know the background and view of the person involved, as any remark can backfire in multiple ways.

As for Ukraine joining NATO, the country is not ready.

[mies]

I don't hate when people here recognize a Russian in me or they want to talk about Russia. It is ok, all people are curious. Yet, if the talk is not respectful I stop it an walk away (will hardly ever talk to this person again)
I did leave my country 8 years ago but I am Russian and proud of it. Mostly people respect it (or seem to).
So, I don't consider people who want to talk about Russia idiots, not at all.

I like it when people are genuinely interested in Russia, Ukraine, or FSU. What I don't like (among several more things) - when people disguise their true intentions under the "innocent politics talk". I feel they are wasting my time and greatly misusing my cognitive resources. There are quite many russian and ukrainian guys around. Frankly speaking - I would love to witness a scene when a western man stops a russian guy on the streets of USA and says "Privet! Kakdila? Moskva? So what do you think about last elections and current political situation between Ukraine and Russia?"  
I would also like to see when a French or German woman is stopped at the street and asked about French and German reaction to financial crisis. Or African woman would be stopped at the street and asked how does she feel about her cultural identity.
And about identification with the Russian/Ukrainian culture - that depends what the person means by "Russians" or "Ukrainians". When the identifier knows only that "russians drink much", "russian women are very approachable", "russian women like presents and restaurants and they date a man who provides them" and "slavic women are hot and very passionate" - I am not sure I am very happy when I am identified as Russian or Ukrainian. It just feels wrong to me. It's cheap.  
My "hateful" reaction referred only to this sort of circumstances.
There is a wonderful joke in Russian - exactly about moments like this:
"- поручик, поцелуйте меня в затылок
- но почему в затылок?
- Вы тоже издалека начинали"

----
two guys are talking, one guy (#1) has a tradition of borrowing money and never paying back. second guy (#2) is tired of lending money and never seeing them again.
#1: wonderful weather today. Spring, such a beautiful season. Nature is awakening from winter sleep, all trees are in bloom, and soul is singing like a happy bird. Just look at this wonderful infinite blue sky... beautiful...
#2: dear friend, please, kiss the back of my head
#1: but why?
#2: because you also started your request from far point.
(the joke refers to one of the meaning of "kiss my butt"="no", the other two meanings of these phrase in russian are "ungrounded flattery", "spoil someone with love and attention")
 
----

Aramis - if she likes you - I think she will appreciate that you are interested in Ukraine, and know something about it. The more you know - the happier she will be. As for your comments - I do think that your comments was "OK" and "nothing to worry about". Just forget about it. It you repeat comments like this randomly and often enough - she will know that you are joking this way, or will learn to understand what is the meaning behind your phrases. But still - I would not advise you to go deep into discussions of Ukrainian politics. This isn't very safe ground. Better don't express your opinions about it - if they may clash with the opinion of the woman.

I agree with Seeker 100%

It is all about respect, and understanding.

[AramisLux]

i was wondering when Gator would get into this thread. thanks for the input, Gator.

one of the things i like about this forum is all of the information about the fsu and what fsuw generally tend to appreciate in men. this is one reason i was trying to demonstrate respect. to me, showing respect and being a gentleman comes very naturally to me. this gives me some hope in attempting to form relations with fsuw. aw don't seem to be concerned with such things most of the time although they love to lecture people about it.

i may have been "trying too hard" though and for a few seconds, let my mouth form some words that were not quite what i really meant to say. i am sure most of you understand (except I/O who is all knowing and all perfect having never misspoken while in the company of a real woman and is therefore completely unable to relate to other people).

I/O: you might try reading more of Seeker's posts and learning from them. if you do, you might have a real shot at being somewhat 'human'.

one of the things that informed what i was attempting to say is the argument that ukraine's entrance into nato could be or would be a very provocative act and might be counterproductive in the long run. i don't really believe this although, let's face it, with the recent elections, no one need worry about it since it aint gunna happen any time soon.

so what i was trying to express is the idea that the us should (continue to) support and assist pro-western pro-democracy groups/organizations within ukraine and that doing this might be more productive in the long run. that's the basic idea i was trying to convey.

while i love to follow politics and economics on a daily basis, i only very rarely try to bring up these subjects with other people. but during our conversation, i asked her how she likes the us. we then spoke together about the good and bad of both countries. she was quite willing to discuss the downside of living in ukraine along with some of the better aspects of living there. that's when i asked about her feeling on the recent elections. that was the only political question i asked her.

i was really impressed with her willingness to tell me her candid feelings and tell the truth of it. she didn't seem like the type to shy away from any topic and was glad to tell me her real thoughts.

this was the first time i had spoken with anyone from that part of the world, and it was also my first conversation using russian. that's how i got her attention: trying to use her own language.

oh, and guess what else we discussed: RELIGEON!!!!!!

looking back on it, i am glad i got through that mine field.

i ended the conversation with my first, and most heartfelt, spaceeba bolshoy....

[GQBlues]

oh, and guess what else we discussed: RELIGEON!!!!!!

:whirling:

...and it happened to be Bootyism, I bet.

[I/O]

my first conversation using russian. that's how i got her attention: trying to use her own language.

I thought you mentioned she was Ukrainian? 

[Handycam72]

first conversation using russian. that's how i got her attention: trying to use her own language.

I thought you mentioned she was Ukrainian? 

This may come as a shock, but it is known that Russian is spoken in Ukraine, in fact it is quite common in East Ukraine
I/O I thought you would of known this   

[Gator]

There is a huge difference between the following two men:

1.  A man who has little interest in history and international politics, yet (after reading 5 introductory pages of history about Russia) asks RW a political question about the FSU in the hope of of convincing the RW that he is an intelligent man and can talk about topics other than "how is the weather."

2.  A man who has a keen interest in history and politics, watches PBS's Jim Lehrer every evening and BBC news on occasion, and reads serious books about the subjects.

When talking with RW, be who you are.  The average RW should be bored, perhaps even offended, by Man No. 1's clumsy question. 

In contrast, Man No. 2 should ask such questions as part of his search to find someone who shares his interests.

Aramis, are you Man No. 2?  If so, keep looking.  Like most RW, she does not have a keen interest in international politics and history.  I make that assumption because she did not use the opportunity to expand your question to related issues.   

Women with such political interests are out there.  They probably are daughters of well educated Russian parents.  Perhaps they work as a journalist or a teacher, or even corporate sales.

[Misha]

i may have been "trying too hard" though and for a few seconds, let my mouth form some words that were not quite what i really meant to say

I hate to say this, but it seems that she was just not into you. If she had been smitten in the first few seconds after seeing you, she would have easily overlooked a faux pas, she would have overlooked many as she would have been the one worrying about saying the wrong thing. I would not worry about and would just continue the search and find that wonderful woman who will be more than happy to overlook the occasional word that she considers misspoken 

[JR]

c

C

I choose "C"

Insulting someone's nationality is never a good idea. Was she Ukrainian? Or perhaps she took what you said to be condensending as in "Only the US can fix the world."

[daveyj]

One thing I'd add.. Do not get into the habit of saying "I'm sorry" over trivial nonsense.  Just pretend it never happened and move on.  Give her some flowers (because you like her, not to apologize) if you want but don't mention this thing again.  No need really.  

Agree with Davemen.  It seems like trivial nonsense and a non issue.

You had a nice conversation with a nice lady who willingly spoke with you at length and then eventually the conversation ended.  All conversations end, and you've provided no conclusive anecdotal evidence that your comment ended the conversation or offended her.

I don't think anyone here thinks you said something outrageous and inexcusable like "hey, I think Hitler wasn't so bad".  Rather I think that several people have picked up on your concern that you did something wrong and presumed that where there is smoke there is fire.

My advice is to own your comments from the conversation, good and bad, and trust that you're a great guy and she'd be lucky to have another conversation with you.

[GQBlues]

I agree with Mies as she saw this coming a mile away.

Heck, I actually ran a marathon before (finished it too) not because I like running and keep myself in shape. Rather because I met an incredibly gorgeous woman who was into running and I really wanted to be popping her for a month or two.

This whole thing about NATO/USA/POLITICAL sensibilities have nothing to do with silly cultural Ps & Qs. This is all about getting laid, man.

[Sculpto]

who won ww2?

[I/O]

I/O I thought you would of known this

The cavalry has arrived.

who won ww2?

Go East and they won (Their version), go West and they won (Their version) which seems to suggest the "Centre" lost.......................

[Seeker]

who won ww2?

No one really wins a war... all sides lose.  And each will write history in their own way (as I/O pointed out).

[Doll]

who won ww2?

USA of course 

[possum]

who won ww2?

The Allied Forced did.. but the Russians won the Great Patriotic War..

[AramisLux]

got a smile and a nice wave from her last night, so i guess this was all just an over reaction on my part.

[daveyj]

got a smile and a nice wave from her last night, so i guess this was all just an over reaction on my part.

How long did the smile last? 
What type of wave was it? 
Left hand or right hand?
Walking away from you or towards you? 
Why didn't she speak to you?
Why didn't you speak to her? 
What time of the day was it?

Quick tell us now! QUICK!!!! Unless you give us the details we can't prescribe the cure!!!!!

Ok, enough sarcasm to those who shall remain nameless. 

Glad things are ok. 

[I/O]

How long did the smile last? 
What type of wave was it? 
Left hand or right hand?
Walking away from you or towards you? 
Why didn't she speak to you?
Why didn't you speak to her? 
What time of the day was it?

Sooooooooo well said..!!!!

[GQBlues]

 

I am so very happy to know there is a very happy ending to this one! Phew! The crew came through!

[BillyB]

I am so very happy to know there is a very happy ending to this one! Phew! The crew came through!

Don't celebrate prematurely. We still have work to do. Next on our agenda is finding a cure for cancer and negotiating World peace. It happens only at RWD! Damn we're good.