wondering if i said something offensive to a Ukrainian woman

[AramisLux]

i was talking with a woman recently. she has been living in the US for a while but came here from eastern Ukraine. i had asked her about the recent elections in Ukraine. One of the things that she mentioned in response to my question was Ukraine's relationship with Nato.

then, in a somewhat clumsy attempt to suggest that Nato membership for Ukraine might not be a good idea, i said the following: "the US could always take care of Ukraine even if it is not admitted into Nato".

i realized when i said it that it sounded dumb. in thinking about it later, i realized that what i said may have also sounded very paternalistic and might have been insulting to her for that reason.

so what do you think? is what i said

(a) offensive
(b) dumb
(c) both dumb and offensive
(d) neither one?

[Ade]

i was talking with a woman recently. she has been living in the US for a while but came here from eastern Ukraine. i had asked her about the recent elections in Ukraine. One of the things that she mentioned in response to my question was Ukraine's relationship with Nato.

then, in a somewhat clumsy attempt to suggest that Nato membership for Ukraine might not be a good idea, i said the following: "the US could always take care of Ukraine even if it is not admitted into Nato".

i realized when i said it that it sounded dumb. in thinking about it later, i realized that what i said may have also sounded very paternalistic and might have been insulting to her for that reason.

so what do you think? is what i said

(a) offensive
(b) dumb
(c) both dumb and offensive
(d) neither one?

e) you are over analysing and she's just not into you, move on.

[I/O]

she's just not into you, move on.

Why? Did she react negatively? Was he hitting on her at the time?

[kievstar]

Does not matter if she is Ukrainian, French, African, American.  Political discussions can be touchy with people you really do not know.  NATO is not popular with many people from Ukraine and Russia is probably a better country to help Ukraine than USA.

[Ade]

Why? Did she react negatively? Was he hitting on her at the time?

Good question; in my haste, I read far more into his post than was actually there. For some bizarre reason I thought he said she'd stopped talking to him after his statement.

[AramisLux]

the statement was made very near to the end of the conversation. that is one reason i wondered about whether she may have been offended.

[GQBlues]

the statement was made very near to the end of the conversation. that is one reason i wondered about whether she may have been offended.

Actually, you completely left off any reaction from her after your statement. While you may have implied she clammed up which made you recounted things you said and wondered, nothing in your original post clearly told us what her reaction really was.

If whatever it was you said made her clam-up, it could simply be she didn't agree with you and was simply not in the mood to argue; or she didn't know much about the issue to engage; or she remembered she forgot to flush the toilet back home; or she may have started to decide what to eat for dinner, etc...

[Ade]

Actually, you completely left off any reaction from her after your statement. While you may have implied she clammed up which made you recounted things you said and wondered, nothing in your original post clearly told us what her reaction really was.

If whatever it was you said made her clam-up, it could simply be she didn't agree with you and was simply not in the mood to argue; or she didn't know much about the issue to engage; or she remembered she forgot to flush the toilet back home; or she may have started to decide what to eat for dinner, etc...

Or perhaps my amazing psychic powers are showing and I was right after all...

[Lily]

I agree with I/O, you did not mentioned her reaction on what you just said. You told us only your own reflections about what impression your words might have had, but you could probably watch her reaction as well.

Of note, I have seen extremely few women, irrespectively of their educational level, who would be into politics. Suggest not bringing this subject in a conversation first unless she initiates it herself.

[AramisLux]

don't you just hate it when you talk to a really gorgeous, super hot woman and you realize later that you said something dumb: then you have to roll the whole scenario around in your brain for days afterwords wondering what she thought of it.

she didn't react to what i said in any overt way; just started to end the conversation.

regarding the use of politics in this type of context, i didn't bring up Ukraine and Nato: she did. she seemed to be well informed on the subject, and that impressed me, actually.

i was much more concerned about NOT looking like a stalker, gawker, or weirdo. not following up her comment with one of my own on the subject could have made me look like a gutless simpleton.

but with all that said, the real issue is: was my statement something a Ukrainian would take as an insult?

[Ranetka]

don't you just hate it when you talk to a really gorgeous, super hot woman and you realize later that you said something dumb: then you have to roll the whole scenario around in your brain for days afterwords wondering what she thought of it.

she didn't react to what i said in any overt way; just started to end the conversation.

regarding the use of politics in this type of context, i didn't bring up Ukraine and Nato: she did. she seemed to be well informed on the subject, and that impressed me, actually.

i was much more concerned about NOT looking like a stalker, gawker, or weirdo. not following up her comment with one of my own on the subject could have made me look like a gutless simpleton.

but with all that said, the real issue is: was my statement something a Ukrainian would take as an insult?


[/quote

\it really depends on how she feels about the issue. Different peoples reaction would be different. To me this statement is too dumb to be offensive.  Do you feel better now?

[BillyB]

don't you just hate it when you talk to a really gorgeous, super hot woman and you realize later that you said something dumb: then you have to roll the whole scenario around in your brain for days afterwords wondering what she thought of it.

If she's really into you, saying one dumb/clumsy thing isn't going to break the friendship/relationship stage you're in with her. Your lack of confidence will turn her off. Do you want to continue to go through life having to watch every little thing you say with her? Is her beauty worth a lifetime of inconvenience? If you say NATO is not good for Ukraine, state your reasons and she may end up respecting you more. If by nature you're not that intelligent and you've had a history of blunders when communicating with people, then you should find a woman near as intellectual as yourself. If a woman doesn't respect you, then you should not be wanting a relationship with her.

[Mir]

Russia is probably a better country to help Ukraine than USA.

Yes like she has done over the last 300 years

[groovlstk]

If she's been living in the US for an extended period, I doubt you could offend her loyalties with a silly political statement. I met some Ukrainians who had very strong negative opinions about NATO and the US but none had ever been outside of Ukraine. 

Don't sweat the cultural differences stuff too much, any woman with whom you hope to have a serious relationship will need to be very flexible and understanding in this area, and vice versa. This whole thing requires a lot of patience on both sides.

[Lily]

but with all that said, the real issue is: was my statement something a Ukrainian would take as an insult?

She probably would. I am not a UW, but IMO your phrase sounded paternalistic, and emphasize her native country is weak and poor, and your native country is allmighty. My guess would be that some Ukrainians may not feel good about the status of their state worldwide.

[Doll]

She probably would. I am not a UW, but IMO your phrase sounded paternalistic, and emphasize her native country is weak and poor, and your native country is allmighty. My guess would be that some Ukrainians may not feel good about the status of their state worldwide.

I agree here- it did sound paternalistic. I myself change the subject or even stop talking to the person who says something like this about Russia. It is not worth talking about. Good for her- she didn't response.

[brave girl]

"the US could always take care of Ukraine even if it is not admitted into Nato".

(c) both dumb and offensive     
Bring her some flowers and she will have the good mood!!    brave girl

[AramisLux]

thanks for all of the feedback everyone. if i ever do speak with her again, i will try much harder to say what i really mean and not be so clumsy.

[Seeker]

thanks for all of the feedback everyone. if i ever do speak with her again, i will try much harder to say what i really mean and not be so clumsy.

Good luck, that is something we all have to struggle with.  Seems we all have the same issues to deal with when interacting with women in general regardless of where they are from.

To not seem like a total idiot for long enough to catch her attention.   

[AramisLux]

Thanks Seeker

AND if there is a next time, i think i will begin with a sincere apology.

[Doll]

thanks for all of the feedback everyone. if i ever do speak with her again, i will try much harder to say what i really mean and not be so clumsy.

BTW, what did you really mean? When you say that the USA will take care of Ukraine? "Take care" like what?

[I/O]

it could simply be she didn't agree with you and was simply not in the mood to argue

Said in conjunction with "RW or UW" is an oxymoron.

i was much more concerned about NOT looking like a stalker, gawker, or weirdo.

Why? Is that how you usually look?

i will try much harder to say what i really mean and not be so clumsy.

If you need to try so hard now, how hard will you need to try later?

AND if there is a next time, i think i will begin with a sincere apology.

The pattern has almost fully developed. Based on your posts, I suggest you sharpen up or stay away from hot women and read this piece of advice over and over.................................

Bring her some flowers and she will have the good mood!!    brave girl

...................................KISS:- Keep IT Simple Stupid...!!!

I've read perhaps 500 - 1000 posts over time wherein guys were specifically mourning their woes with women. Bravegirl nailed most of the answers right here. One of the best posts I have seen in a very long time.

[Gator]

This is making a mountain out of a mole hill (or elephants from fleas).

thanks for all of the feedback everyone. if i ever do speak with her again, i will try much harder to say what i really mean and not be so clumsy.

Aramis, it is not so much about being clumsy.  Nor about making an apology.


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=45

AND if there is a next time, i think i will begin with a sincere apology.

There will be many such miscommunication moments when dating RW, especially those you meet in Russia, Ukraine, et al.  As Groovlstk said, patience is required on both sides.  Use such moments to understand if the RW has patience.

My guess based on the little I know is that you showed patience and that you have the manners of a gentleman. 

You may wish to read the following guidelines, and when you do you will probably realize that you did fine compared to some men who should have stayed home.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=45

RESPECT is the key word.  Always show respect.

My general opinion is that if a RW likes you, she will ignore your harmless social mistakes unless you repeat them.  With more time together she will become more direct yet still like you. 

I have met a couple of RW who were ball busters from the get go.  Move on - there are plenty of fish in the sea.

BTW, apologize if you feel the need, and be sincere, yet still a man.  Don't hand her your testicles with any apology. 

[mies]

i was talking with a woman recently. she has been living in the US for a while but came here from eastern Ukraine. i had asked her about the recent elections in Ukraine. One of the things that she mentioned in response to my question was Ukraine's relationship with Nato.

then, in a somewhat clumsy attempt to suggest that Nato membership for Ukraine might not be a good idea, i said the following: "the US could always take care of Ukraine even if it is not admitted into Nato".

i realized when i said it that it sounded dumb. in thinking about it later, i realized that what i said may have also sounded very paternalistic and might have been insulting to her for that reason.

so what do you think? is what i said

(a) offensive
(b) dumb
(c) both dumb and offensive
(d) neither one?

imho- at this point you are being concerned with the wrong questions.

you could have said it as a "dry joke", and then what? asking who has a poor sense of humor - you do or she does?
Unless this woman (and you) are specialists in international relations, international politics, and international economics (which I doubt she is - though possible) - what's the point discussing the NATO and Ukraine with her?  If she lives in USA - chances are she doesn't even want to be associated too much with Ukraine anymore. After all - she did move to USA, didn't she? So why bringing up these discussions? Talk about soul, personality, tangible life facts. The galaxy survives quite well with or without our speculations, so does NATO and Ukraine.

As for cultural background and being a "slavic woman" - I really dislike to discuss Ukraine or Russia with strangers. I completely hate it when some guys rush to me at the street, shops, or restaurants/pubs shouting "priveeet! Kakdila!" and start harassing me with their attention just because they have guessed a slavic woman in me. The last time - some idiot stopped his car (!!) - because he needed to talk to me and tell me he knows I am russian and he had a russian girlfriend. Idiot - not because he had a russian girlfriend, but because he was following me the whole block to my home (!!!) telling me how sexy i look while i told him i am married and asked him to get lost. I was wearing loose t-shirt, loose shaggy jeans, and flats-shoes. No makeup. Plastic bag with groceries in one hand.   
I really wish all women who created such attitude in WM, and these men all together - to disappear. Even though i love Ukraine and Russia, I have no interest discussing them with males whose true interest is very far from geopolitics. The discussion usually goes "so what do you think about Putin and Medvedev? You've got nice lips/eyes/whatever - @marry me@."
Sorry for off-topic - needed to vent.   

[Seeker]

imho- at this point you are being concerned with the wrong questions.

you could have said it as a "dry joke", and then what? asking who has a poor sense of humor - you do or she does?
Unless this woman (and you) are specialists in international relations, international politics, and international economics (which I doubt she is - though possible) - what's the point discussing the NATO and Ukraine with her?  If she lives in USA - chances are she doesn't even want to be associated too much with Ukraine anymore. After all - she did move to USA, didn't she? So why bringing up these discussions? Talk about soul, personality, tangible life facts. The galaxy survives quite well with or without our speculations, so does NATO and Ukraine.

As for cultural background and being a "slavic woman" - I really dislike to discuss Ukraine or Russia with strangers. I completely hate it when some guys rush to me at the street, shops, or restaurants/pubs shouting "priveeet! Kakdila!" and start harassing me with their attention just because they have guessed a slavic woman in me. The last time - some idiot stopped his car (!!) - because he needed to talk to me and tell me he knows I am russian and he had a russian girlfriend. Idiot - not because he had a russian girlfriend, but because he was following me the whole block to my home (!!!) telling me how sexy i look while i told him i am married and asked him to get lost. I was wearing loose t-shirt, loose shaggy jeans, and flats-shoes. No makeup. Plastic bag with groceries in one hand.   
I really wish all women who created such attitude in WM, and these men all together - to disappear. Even though i love Ukraine and Russia, I have no interest discussing them with males whose true interest is very far from geopolitics. The discussion usually goes "so what do you think about Putin and Medvedev? You've got nice lips/eyes/whatever - @marry me@."
Sorry for off-topic - needed to vent.   

Off topic or not, VERY well said.

(though I think it is on topic) It is all about respect, and understanding.

{edit to add} And sometimes we all screw up.