Scam Scam everywhere a Scam

[JR]

There was Kristina from Omsk that keeps me wishing I could know for sure ... but, I think a web cam is a very low bar for a sincere and motivated woman to get over.  Phone calls could be a different person.  I told her straight up that I felt like a little boy with expressions on email only.  She suggested a phone. I told her she could be a different person.  In the end, I suggested she could even be a man with a beard. 

The ONLY way to know for sure about Kristina is to go...everything else is a risk modifier.

I feel the same way about expressions of affection in initial emails, reeks of insincerity.

I would not have told her about my doubts. It creates difficulties later down the road if she turns out to be real and "the one" for you. I would have gotten on the phone and gently found out what days she was free then explained that on that day and time we would skype with cam so we could move forward, otherwise I have to move on because my life is precious and I am not here to play games.

Rivvy, best to you and your adventures in life. Hope you find all that you are looking for. Keep us posted.

[IAmZon]

A couple years ago, I certainly would have been more gentle.  And, there is nothing wrong with that.  I may have shut down a woman who actually made me excited, which is rare and something I wondered if I would ever truly feel again.

But we are the sum total of our experiences. 

I am not in a WANTING position, or a WANTING mentality.  I am rather clear minded and quick to evaluate all things romantic.  I say what is on my mind and I am aware of gender roles and boundaries in a different way.  I can notice the difference in my thinking and gut instincts between who I am now versus who I was a couple years ago.

I think I can make this work for me.  It likely will create a different kind of relationship too.  That's probably a step in the right direction.

[innakrug]

It is one thing to email someone from work, it is quite something else to have a Skype video call at work speaking in English while living in the FSU. Much harder to keep it hidden from the boss 

Agree Also, not everybody can afford to use Internet Cafe services. It was very expensive for me when I didn't have internet for a while in S-Petesburg.

[innakrug]

I think

he no home PC line is rubbish. Ask Mrs I/O, she'll be even more scathing. I always cut just a tiny bit of slack on the webcam thing  early on as some genuine women are suspicious of the motives of men asking to go down this road. Idiots wanting them on there naked etc. Having said that, I never had to ask about the webcam, it took no more than a few minutes in most cases and the real women would suggest or offer. In the end, it just wasn't an issue for me because conversations took their natural course to webcam etc.

Skype LOL. It's a permanent fixture on the PC's all over Russia, they leave their PC's logged on with the speakers turned up and "Buzz" each other...........about 50 times per day. Joyis, they'd have Skype in the crapper if they could. EVERYONE (Quote - Unquote) has a PC and more than everyone has Skype. Internet cafe's, ROFL. Ask Mrs, like me, she is sure they exist in her home city but for some strange reason hasn't seen one recently, perhaps because there is little or no call for them? Perhaps because everyone has PC's, Iphones, Notepads, Ipods, Ipads, and every other gadget known to man?
[/quoin


I respectfully disagree. Not EVERYONE in Russia has computer, especially internet.

[I/O]

Inna: You missed the (Quote - Unquote) point. Meaning, "For the most part". Of course not every single home has these things as is the case in any country but FWIW, those (Russians) I associate with (Quite a wide group) immediately dismiss the possibility of anyone not having access to private internet. There is a neighbor or a friend or the next door's sister or whomever who has net access from home..................................

[ECOCKS]

Agreed. Someone who is supposedly seriously pursuing an international relationship these days has access to the internet. If they don't, a flag should be up.

[innakrug]

Agreed. Someone who is supposedly seriously pursuing an international relationship these days has access to the internet. If they don't, a flag should be up.

    I wasn't talking about should or shouldn't  I simply stated that not everyone has computer, but I agree with you that if somebody seriously pursuing an international relationship they should have computer and internet access. But for some  computer at work is enough, because in Russia it is not cheep pleasure.
 Do you know gentlemen how much computer cost in Russia?. Just curious.

[innakrug]

Inna: You missed the (Quote - Unquote) point. Meaning, "For the most part". Of course not every single home has these things as is the case in any country but FWIW, those (Russians) I associate with (Quite a wide group) immediately dismiss the possibility of anyone not having access to private internet. There is a neighbor or a friend or the next door's sister or whomever who has net access from home..................................

I/O I am sorry I misunderstood you. I am glad I did it respectfully though Thanks for the lesson, I never heard this expression . A some of my friends still do not have computers at home, just at work.

[Faux Pas]

    I wasn't talking about should or shouldn't  I simply stated that not everyone has computer, but I agree with you that if somebody seriously pursuing an international relationship they should have computer and internet access. But for some  computer at work is enough, because in Russia it is not cheep pleasure.
 Do you know gentlemen how much computer cost in Russia?. Just curious.

Indeed I do, I shopped for one. No doubt a computer in Russia is expensive for the average household but certainly not unattainable. The same with internet access. I know many Russians, none of which could be considered well off or with plenty of disposable income yet, they most all have home computers and internet. It is a slightly different game than it was, I believe you said, 10 years ago that you yourself found your husband.

[ECOCKS]

    I wasn't talking about should or shouldn't  I simply stated that not everyone has computer, but I agree with you that if somebody seriously pursuing an international relationship they should have computer and internet access. But for some  computer at work is enough, because in Russia it is not cheep pleasure.
 Do you know gentlemen how much computer cost in Russia?. Just curious.

Not that much different than in Ukraine which is where we are talking about.

Yes, bought 2-3 while I was there. Everyone I know had one and all you had to do was go to McDonald's, Puzata Hata, university campus or a dozen other places and you were on the net.

As we have said several times, there are undoubtedly places (villages, farms, etc.) that do not have it but the cities are accessible and those in search of relationships have access or they aren't seriously into this process.

It's a flag which needs to be recognized.

[innakrug]

Indeed I do, I shopped for one. No doubt a computer in Russia is expensive for the average household but certainly not unattainable. The same with internet access. I know many Russians, none of which could be considered well off or with plenty of disposable income yet, they most all have home computers and internet. It is a slightly different game than it was, I believe you said, 10 years ago that you yourself found your husband.

  You have very good memory. But I still have family and friends there

[IAmZon]

I agree.  Red Flag - Tilt - Game Over - Move on

No need to sugar coat.  ESPECIALLY since Kristina represents herself to be a manager of a computer store.  Especially, since I offered to have a friend pick her up and drive her to an internet cafe - just to add a little pressure, I mean a a helping hand:)

But, it just proves the point ... if she was sincere, she would have climbed many obstacles, that is to say IF her real feelings and intentions were equal to what she expressed in emails.  That is the type of time wasters I had in mind when I started this thread. None of these red herrings caused me any real injury at all.  The overall experience shows me the great limits to internet communication only. This petty BS would not happen to me in real life.

[Phil dAmore]

Do you know gentlemen how much computer cost in Russia?. Just curious.

I bought several computers during my time in Russia.  The selection was vast and I liked having the option of being able to buy one without a pre-installed OS.  That really kept the price down.  Given that one could buy a decent pirated and cracked copy of Windows pretty much anywhere that saved a lot of money.

WRT internet service:  It has come a long way from the days of pre-paid internet cards that charged by the minute and dial-up modems.  At least in Moscow and St. Pete, broadband is available from several suppliers and although they do adjust their prices by how fast you want the thing to work and the amount of usage (in MB) overall it was still cheaper than here in the states.

Of course I am aware that the 'average' Russian doesn't have the disposable income to drop on a computer and that is one of the reasons not everyone has one.

[innakrug]

Not that much different than in Ukraine which is where we are talking about.

Yes, bought 2-3 while I was there. Everyone I know had one and all you had to do was go to McDonald's, Puzata Hata, university campus or a dozen other places and you were on the net.

As we have said several times, there are undoubtedly places (villages, farms, etc.) that do not have it but the cities are accessible and those in search of relationships have access or they aren't seriously into this process.

It's a flag which needs to be recognized.

Well, tell you Truth you guys are more experienced in recognising red flags then I am  The point I am trying to make - do not brush off girl just because she said she doesn't have internet. That's all - no more, no less.
And it is true that later on,she can find possibility to have live conversation.
 

[I/O]

I/O I am sorry I misunderstood you.

Not at all!! Now that is another expression which probably doesn't translate but basically means "No problem, you are welcome".

As for the cost of PC's, Mrs will tell of her University days when the family sold one of it's cars and a garage (Those lovely metal boxes) to fund a new PC for her, so relatively speaking, the investment was huge at the time. Ironically enough, that PC has undergone several upgrades but still serves one of the family apartments and yes, it does run Skype, all day long. Fortunately, the relative cost of PC's has reduced significantly since those days.

[JR]

I agree.  Red Flag - Tilt - Game Over - Move on

No need to sugar coat.  ESPECIALLY since Kristina represents herself to be a manager of a computer store.  Especially, since I offered to have a friend pick her up and drive her to an internet cafe - just to add a little pressure, I mean a a helping hand:)

But, it just proves the point ... if she was sincere, she would have climbed many obstacles, that is to say IF her real feelings and intentions were equal to what she expressed in emails.  That is the type of time wasters I had in mind when I started this thread. None of these red herrings caused me any real injury at all.  The overall experience shows me the great limits to internet communication only. This petty BS would not happen to me in real life.

And I think that pretty much sums it up. If you feel she's not as into it as you are why put yourself through the wringer for someone who won't equal your efforts in pursuit of the fairytale? Reading this additional input I'd have moved on too.

[tim 360]

I agree.  Red Flag - Tilt - Game Over - Move on

No need to sugar coat.  ESPECIALLY since Kristina represents herself to be a manager of a computer store.  Especially, since I offered to have a friend pick her up and drive her to an internet cafe - just to add a little pressure, I mean a a helping hand:)

But, it just proves the point ... if she was sincere, she would have climbed many obstacles, that is to say IF her real feelings and intentions were equal to what she expressed in emails.  That is the type of time wasters I had in mind when I started this thread. None of these red herrings caused me any real injury at all.  The overall experience shows me the great limits to internet communication only. This petty BS would not happen to me in real life.

And she "manages a computer store"...too funny.  The main reason these scams are out there--is because they work.  If suckers weren't out there on the internet buying in...the scammers would have to find another job.

[IAmZon]

And yet another - No SKYPE, MSN, ECT ...

(I agree with JR.  If the woman does not equal your effort - CYA!  One thing I learned living in South America is this: God made a TON of beautiful women.  Far less have brains and morality that create a good wife ... but I know they are out there.   Interestingly, I have had many letters from attractive / quality girls that do not seem to be scams at all.   The communication is very, very slow because they are busy.  But the pace of communication is much more "normal."  I doubt during these times they are locked inside knitting quilts.)

======

It is pleasant to continue our dialogue. How are you?
Thanks for your letter, it is very pleasant to read, realise,
that someone is interested in other part of the world by you.
Fairly to tell at me there was no such wide experience of dialogue in Internet.
Tim, such purpose to find the man in internet has arisen now as it is difficult
to find here the man, in Czechia... Know I tried, but for some reason
they need another very many people does not wish to create serious relations, I do not know why so.
I have an uncle who lives in USA - it has a business, there is a shop. So I am easy I can
Will move in USA if I will want
it Has told, that can help with any questions concerning trips to the USA.
But will suffice about it. My parents... My parents were lost,
my mother was lost from a cancer in 2005, she was by then 54 years old,
the father was lost after a year in accident, after a year. He drank much
and often sat down a wheel drunk, I eat there were 56 years by then, he has retired already.
My parents lived in Moscow, not poorly. They were succeeding people
and very much loved each other, but the destiny has developed badly.
Will suffice about the sad. I do not have brothers and sisters,
I one daughter as I have in Russia many uncle and the aunt which to see always glad me
when I to them come.
I the active girl, love sports, I watch the body as I consider, that any girl should watch
the figure and beauty as we are created for men, and the man are created for us,
we should like each other always.
My English is not perfect, in spite of the fact that I long already time live in Europe,
but nevertheless I write with an error. To speak one and to write letters another
I do not know Czech even, very badly. I speak only in Russian and English.
I use Russian post server as it is my old box, I sometimes receive letters
from the old friends from Russia and I communicate with some relatives.
Tell to me as more about your family? Something else?
As you understand, if we like each other I am ready on moving to your country,
but I ask you not to hurry event. Let's learn about each other more, to write letters.
I cannot use MSN, Yahoo or Skype as I write letters from work, here it is difficult to organise it.
Other time at me is not present to write you the letter, and do not lose
me if you suddenly do not see my letter. I will try to write to you every day.
Excuse for the short letter, but I should go now...
I expect following your letter...
Yours faithfully, Svetlana

[JR]

Here is a saying that I write afresh on each new page of the calendar at work when I tear off the old: "Never make someone a priority while you remain an option."

[IAmZon]

"Never make someone a priority while you remain an option."

True, and so far on this thread, and in my mentality, I have tilted on the side of great skepticism.  More than that, I see the more accurate probabilities - or, at least I think i do. 

But here is the rub ...  to engage in any of these activities / relationship building, requires and necessitates an amount of naivete.   A man has to invest much more time than most care to truthfully admit and with each possibility, one must allow a certain amount of "what if" that boarders on being gullible.   

So achieving the right balance between being hopeful yet not allowing yourself to see red flags and insincerity is a requirement.  Luck plays a great role too.

[Gator]

After 5 or more years with your toe in the water, it seems that you are contemplating taking the plunge to make your first "official" trip? 

A man has to invest much more time than most care to truthfully admit....

I admit to that.  However, one starts out not knowing that fact.

..... and with each possibility, one must allow a certain amount of "what if" that boarders on being gullible.   

I would say optimistic rather than gullible.  The gullible tend to get eaten early by sharks, unless luck is on his side.  In fact, regarding luck you said:

Luck plays a great role too.

Strive to make your on luck.

So achieving the right balance between being hopeful yet not allowing yourself to see red flags and insincerity is a requirement. 

Not allowing?????  This is not Rivardco.  This is not a valid method either.  You must recognize the red flags. You must not dismiss them and instead deliberate them, short of becoming paranoid.  Paranoia does not let you have fun, and having fun with someone is still the overriding consideration.  Why date someone who is not fun?  The sex can't be that good.

[Avis]

Hi everyone,

not going into debates, just a small remark:

When I just met my SO, our communication was incredibly intense, we used all forms possible - emails, txt, Skype, mobile.
At the same time I just fought the idea of turning Skype video on. I refused to use it because I just didn't want to.
Simply as that, at the end of the day I started using it, for sure, but for a few months I just didn't.

Does this make me a scam? Definitely not.

Creating rules sometimes creates additional barriers between people.

[Ade]

Hi everyone,

not going into debates, just a small remark:

When I just met my SO, our communication was incredibly intense, we used all forms possible - emails, txt, Skype, mobile.
At the same time I just fought the idea of turning Skype video on. I refused to use it because I just didn't want to.
Simply as that, at the end of the day I started using it, for sure, but for a few months I just didn't.

Does this make me a scam? Definitely not.

Creating rules sometimes creates additional barriers between people.

As strange as it seems, it was the same with my wife.

[Faux Pas]

Hi everyone,

not going into debates, just a small remark:

When I just met my SO, our communication was incredibly intense, we used all forms possible - emails, txt, Skype, mobile.
At the same time I just fought the idea of turning Skype video on. I refused to use it because I just didn't want to.
Simply as that, at the end of the day I started using it, for sure, but for a few months I just didn't.

Does this make me a scam? Definitely not.

Creating rules sometimes creates additional barriers between people.

Good point. Three years my wife's computer was an old windows 98 machine. I didn't even have Skype then but I did apply the pressure to at least get on some realtime messaging software, Yahoo, ICQ ect.. Nothing doing. Most of the messaging software didn't support Win98 even then and her connection from home was with a phone/internet card. She was ready to speak on the phone from day one but not any communication on the computer other than email. Three years has made a lot of difference. Perhaps everyone hasn't caught up, I do not know but, those I know have and Skype it is the best thing since sliced bread.

[CanadaMan]

At the same time I just fought the idea of turning Skype video on. I refused to use it because I just didn't want to.
Simply as that, at the end of the day I started using it, for sure, but for a few months I just didn't.

Was that with no pressure coming from your SO (refusing to use it) or with some pressure?

Ditto for SeriouslyJaded?