Life Changes...Part Deux

[Ade]

Billy, you live in the Seattle area right? So do I. I hope that someday when your A and my Lena arrives we can all get together for dinner or something. I would look forward to meeting you and A. I admire that you have the courage and guts to come here and tell your story knowing full well that there will be plenty of jealous, spiteful and downright rude know-it-all people here who have nothing better than try to shoot you down.

lol 

...

and that's what I have to say about that.

That was even funnier than the clueless post from Hammer. I read it aloud to my wife - a bit of a mouthful, but worth it. 

[GQBlues]

... This is why the fact that she may actually end up spending several precious years of her youth with Billy (the reasons for that is a different topic) makes me cringe....

Dunno pitbull, I'll give you the benefit of doubt you are not a mean person, but that wasn't very nice, IMO...
 
I think what's very interesting to note in this saga is the struggle of decent folks injecting conventional standards in an otherwise uncoventional sub-culture of the MOB. Conventionality has no place in the MOB, IMO. At least not yet....
 
In as much as I disagree with many of BillyB's ranting in this thread, if and when they set off in their relationship, I can only bid both of them well for the choice they made. Bottom line is, I wouldn't for a minute doubt that as cute as A is, BillyB wasn't the ONLY suitor she had. I'm certain she had many choices. But when all is said and done, she chose BillyB.

[Ade]

In as much as I disagree with many of BillyB's ranting in this thread, if and when they set off in their relationship, I can only bid both of them well for the choice they made. Bottom line is, I wouldn't for a minute doubt that as cute as A is, BillyB wasn't the ONLY suitor she had. I'm certain she had many choices. But when all is said and done, she chose BillyB.

She made her choice yes, but some may think that is as likely to be because he's an easy mark due to his planet sized ego and self-delusion rather than because he's "perfect husband material".

[Jumper]

K-1 is approved and probably in Kiev now. It was mistakenly sent to the Consular in Tunisia. I will be at the interview with A. Unfortunately she will not be taking the same plane back home as I since the consulars website said it could take up to 10 days for a person to get a visa in hand after approval and they don't recommend buying tickets until visa is in hand.

Just information -
 
Yes the consulate  says it *may* take 10 days..
but seems you are paying for expedited mail service when she goes for the interview.
 My fiancee's visa interview was on a friday,
despite living far from Kyiv, her passport arrived back in her home city, with visa on monday.
Considering the weekend, that's a business day or 2, at most.
 
If flying there for the interview, i think you could safely plan a trip around flying back with her.
The longest your stay would be is 12 to 14 days, if they took the longest time possible and including travel days?
 
Yes buying her ticket can be an issue, but it really isn't that hard to get around.I bought a very reasonbably priced ticket that , had open dates.It was also business class and cost less than many other coach class flights i've purchased to/from Kyiv,so shop around. The extra luggage you are  allowed on most airtlines business class (depending on prioce of ticket) can be easily worth the added expense,not to mention the added comfort and line convienience. 
Granted you may not be able to find anything currently,but i was surprised at the deals to be had if you dug around a bit.
(this flight was in july so normally not great deals at that time frame)
 

[mies]

I wish them (A. and B.) all the best. And true: she did choose Billy. What is the average age of her suitors? In Ukraine men of Billy's age are mostly married, at least those who can provide for A. and her mom. Most of men of Billy's age will not try to hook up with a 17yo girl. So I suppose A's suitors were mostly boys of her own age group. Some of them could have rich parents, some of them could come from low-income families. Even by Ukrainian standards 18yo is a bit too young for marriage, and even young guys will not normally consider marrying a 18yo. So basically A., in my opinion, among her suitors may have some local "sugar daddies" who can give her some presents but won't marry her, young boys who would like to date her/go out/have a usual dating/romantic relationship with A, but most likely will not be marrying in the nearest 2-3-4 years, and.. there is Billy. Who wants to marry and who is eager to pay mom's bills.. hmm... A is too young to know what marriage is. Her mom, on the contrary, knows both what marriage is like, and what are her and her daughter's monthly bills and expenses. Most of moms in Ukraine will try to talk their daughters out of marriage at this young/tender age. Not even the age difference is an issue, A's age is an issue. Most Ukrainian moms will try to talk their daughters out of having a relationship with a man who is older than bride's father. At least when daughter is too young to understand what sort of choices she makes, and too young to really know what and whom she likes. In this (B. and A's) case, mom is very supportive. She acts unusually. This keeps me wonder why.

But. I have nothing against relationships with large age gaps. If both people know what they are doing, both of them want it (and not merely do what their mom wants them to do), and maybe they love each other - then mazel tov to them.
Rodin met Camille Claudel when he was 43 and she was 18..  

[Admin]

Lots and lots and lots of differing perspectives (to use a gentle euphemism) in this topic.

I wonder - does ANYONE feel they can offer an *objective* summary? If so, please make the effort as I would be quite interested in reading a *balanced* perspective from someone who has followed the story closely. And yes, accuse me of being lazy because it would be accurate. For a variety of reasons I have not followed this story closely - only a snippet or two here and there - and I now do not wish to spend the time to wade through 50+ pages of posts - so if someone would be so kind as to offer the 'Cliff's Notes' version, I would be grateful.

- Dan

[GQBlues]

 No argument there with me, mies. Although I am optimistic that A’s age should be beneficial when she arrives and they get married only IF, I am saying this empathically, BillyB is half the man he so loudly claims to be.
 
At A’s age, coming here will, or SHOULD, give her promising options to pursue a brighter future within the comfort, security and provisions of their marriage. She’s at the age where she can step right into an institution of higher learning and pursue whatever she feels is her calling. Plot her life’s career with the same ideals that what she does for herself productively can only bring benefits not only for herself, but for her marriage and on down to her mother/family. For that, A is at the perfect age.
 
I am hopeful that BillyB have the foresight and rationale to see this in the manner I am stating…if his idea of their marriage is one where A stays at home and gets knocked up in a blitz of lust, one after the other and a few years down the road she finds herself a young mother of a few before hitting the age of 30, without so much as tasting what life could’ve been and with basically nothing to show for herself other than a bunch of stretch marks, then speculative as that may be, I leave that to the notion if she’s happy with it - then have at it.
 
Any pretty young woman easily understands how easy doors open for them in any culture. Seattle is as liberal and progressive a metropolis as they come. Home of Kobain and the birthplace of the grunge bands. So lot's of raving young artists floating around but not as many as there are groupies that surrounds them. There will be challenges and there will be temptations, as if marriages with differing culture isn’t enough in itself much less one with greater disparities. It would be an incredibly monumental challenge for them both. But, if BillyB is what he claims he is, then this is not a cause of worry.
 
To that, I offer them the very best of luck and the very best in what life will have in store for them. I don’t want to sound bias, but the thought leans more so for ‘A’ than BillyB. For if BillyB means well for A, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, he should understand.
 

She made her choice yes, but some may think that is as likely to be because he's an easy mark due to his planet sized ego and self-delusion rather than because he's "perfect husband material"

Maybe. One thing is for certain though at this point, 'A' will walk into a world with 'choices' she had no way of knowing can be available (easily) for her. Whether she acts upon any of it or not doesn't absolve BillyB the need to lean on some from his (ego) bank to maintain a sense of balance and sanity. IMO, I wish he saves a ton of it now instead of spending it wastefully in this hall.   

[mies]

...

agree on all accounts.

In addition to the temptations of the life in the USA, what if somewhere along the road she plain and simple falls in love... not with Billy? Right now she is making a cynical rational choice. In future she can either remain cynical rational, or fall in love outside of marriage and starts acting irrationally. If she remains rational - in USA she will have more choices to pick from, the choices that she does not have at the moment in Ukraine. What will keep her from saying "Paul is much more reliable and stable than Billy, and he is a better provider than Billy"? Or, if she falls head over hills with her classmate/colleague, and becomes irrational, what will keep her from leaving Billy and following her heart?

This is the second thing that I do not understand in this story (in addition to thinking process of A's mom): the flow of Billy's reasoning. Right now, Billy says, A. picks him because he can offer her more, than local boys can offer her. OK. I can understand that. Is he going to "compete" in the same manner with fellow Americans? Based on what Billy thinks that once he won mom's A's "i do" , it will remain that way indefinitely? In a way, A already succumbed to temptation of better life in USA, vs. her current level of live/less financially stable men. What will prevent her from succumbing to temptation to improve her life even further, with a richer/younger man?
I am not saying she will do it. I am merely asking why Billy thinks she will not do it. What will he offer to her to continuously keep her interested? 

[Daveman]

I agree with you. Of all the photos of wives/fiancees/unsuspecting passerby RWs I've seen on this site, A. is the most beautiful. This is why the fact that she may actually end up spending several precious years of her youth with Billy (the reasons for that is a different topic) makes me cringe....

Now we are on the first real interesting (to me) subtopic of the thread.  I'm curious as to why her physical appearance makes such a difference?  What if she were just completely butt rippin' fugly? If she were the homeliest creature from the cabbage patch, what would your opinion be?  Do you think the responses in this thread would have been somewhat different? 

[GQBlues]

....In addition to the temptations of the life in the USA, what if somewhere along the road she plain and simple falls in love... not with Billy? Right now she is making a cynical rational choice. In future she can either remain cynical rational, or fall in love outside of marriage and starts acting irrationally. If she remains rational - in USA she will have more choices to pick from, the choices that she does not have at the moment in Ukraine. What will keep her from saying "Paul is much more reliable and stable than Billy, and he is a better provider than Billy"? Or, if she falls head over hills with her classmate/colleague, and becomes irrational, what will keep her from leaving Billy and following her heart?

Of course 'none'. While I don't wish this to anyone, I can only hope if this ever happens that BillyB will just as easily understand 'A's discretion then as he seems to easily do now and just wish her all the very best. To that, Spidey sense tells me he'll likely say he will.

This is the second thing that I do not understand in this story (in addition to thinking process of A's mom): the flow of Billy's reasoning. Right now, Billy says, A. picks him because he can offer her more, than local boys can offer her. OK. I can understand that. Is he going to "compete" in the same manner with fellow Americans? Based on what Billy thinks that once he won mom's A's "i do" , it will remain that way indefinitely? In a way, A already succumbed to temptation of better life in USA, vs. her current level of live/less financially stable men. What will prevent her from succumbing to temptation to improve her life even further, with a richer/younger man?

I am not saying she will do it. I am merely asking why Billy thinks she will not do it. What will he offer to her to continuously keep her interested? 

As for 'A's mumski, I can't even begin to imagine what her thought process are/were regarding their relationship. I'm tapped out of ideas on all counts for obvious reason e.g. not a mumski, not Ukranian, etc...I have a very unqualified opinion though so it's better kept to myself.
 
As for competition amongst American males..at least those with susbstance, there are no competition, there are only options. Likely for many, someone like 'A' is not only a 'good option, but rather because she's a foreigner with an obvious accent, a unique option. That's what's normal here, and that apply with AWs with their choices, too.
 
That's why I'm bidding them both well. Love conquers all and all that good stuff....

[GQBlues]

....What if she were just completely butt rippin' fugly? If she were the homeliest creature from the cabbage patch, what would your opinion be?  Do you think the responses in this thread would have been somewhat different?

Sheeesh Dave, LOL! Are you saying Fuglies' youth does not have youthful precious years (careful now, 'cause I'm ugly as they come)?
 
  

[SteveOR]

Lots and lots and lots of differing perspectives (to use a gentle euphemism) in this topic.

I wonder - does ANYONE feel they can offer an *objective* summary? If so, please make the effort as I would be quite interested in reading a *balanced* perspective from someone who has followed the story closely. And yes, accuse me of being lazy because it would be accurate. For a variety of reasons I have not followed this story closely - only a snippet or two here and there - and I now do not wish to spend the time to wade through 50+ pages of posts - so if someone would be so kind as to offer the 'Cliff's Notes' version, I would be grateful.

- Dan

Dan-
 
Well I don’t know about objective, but I’ll give it a whirl:
 
Billyb, who at one point or another was married to a Ukrainian woman and then divorced, has written to every available woman in the FSU, been engaged to one from Kazakhstan, been not engaged to one from Kazakhstan, traveled extensively in the FSU and has generously taken the time to write about those travels and experiences has now met and is engaged to a Ukrainian women.
 
“A” was 18 at the time that she and Billy met.  Billy is in his early 40s.  This age difference has completely enraged and unhinged several of the members here and caused them to write all kinds of ridiculous things.
 
Billy continues to share his story while occasionally throwing a little gasoline on the self righteous hot heads resulting in increasingly fiery and stupid replies.
 
Lately the Antidate crowd has reinvaded the thread with their usual long, boring and troll like posts.
 
GOB, the tequila fueled angry guy has been replaced by Ade, the Norwegian angry guy.
 
Both use lots of emoticons though which somehow makes it OK.
 
Your crazy arsed moderator continues to make outrageous statements about things she knows nothing about including accusing Billy of wanting to groom her children for child abuse (how do you spell yuck again?).  As an aside, maybe someday you can tell us what possible interest a Western woman has in any of this.  Either that or just send her a new tinfoil hat.  Might make those pesky voices go away.
 
A’s interview is soon in Kyiv.  Billy will be there but visa issuance is slow so A will not be returning with Billy on that trip.
 
I think that about sums it up.  Hope it was objective enough.
 
Meanwhile, most of us are just glad that Billy continues to share his story and hope that all goes well for him and A at the interview and in the future. . .
 
-Steve

[pitbull]

 
Lately the Antidate crowd has reinvaded the thread with their usual long, boring and troll like posts.
 

What's "Antidate crowd"?

[mies]

Lately the Antidate crowd has reinvaded the thread with their usual long, boring and troll like posts.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzPBUGUM7KQ[/youtube]

for the record: my posts are long (but shorter than Billy's), and possibly troll-like, but I am not an antidate crowd   dating is good!

[Admin]

Dan-
 
Well I don’t know about objective, but I’ll give it a whirl:

[/size]

Thanks . . . and I too am unsure about the objectivity as it seems there were a few not-so-subtle messages you wished to send.

Billyb, who at one point or another was married to a Ukrainian woman and then divorced, has written to every available woman in the FSU, been engaged to one from Kazakhstan, been not engaged to one from Kazakhstan, traveled extensively in the FSU and has generously taken the time to write about those travels and experiences has now met and is engaged to a Ukrainian women.
[/size]

Yes, Billy's generosity with contributing his experiences are appreciated. As I am sure Billy would acknowledge, his experiences as recounted are not intended (or at least, should not be intended) as Billy telling others how to do things. Further, as we have seen in many previous TR's, some of the most valuable learning points are those discovered about the path to avoid - rather than the path taken. With all these many pages of back-and-forth, there surely is some of each and it is for each reader to draw from the topic the salient points of value to them.

“A” was 18 at the time that she and Billy met.  Billy is in his early 40s.  This age difference has completely enraged and unhinged several of the members here and caused them to write all kinds of ridiculous things.
[/size]

Is it merely the age disparity - or is there more to the cause of the ire?

Billy continues to share his story while occasionally throwing a little gasoline on the self righteous hot heads resulting in increasingly fiery and stupid replies.
[/size]

It does seem, from my very brief exposure to this topic, that there is no shortage of piety. I remain curious as to the attribution of the pious, as it seems to be an accusation made by both (all?) factions toward the other(s).

Lately the Antidate crowd has reinvaded the thread with their usual long, boring and troll like posts.
[/size]

Steve, your account was created in 2009 - long after the REAL incursion by the "Antidate crowd." And for the record, Kvinna has collaborated with us on a couple of projects and the relationship we created with Antidate has not been antagonistic in a very long time. If folks look closely enough, it is often surprising how much common ground they can find - even amidst seemingly thick tensions.

GOB, the tequila fueled angry guy has been replaced by Ade, the Norwegian angry guy.
[/size]

I suppose that is one way of looking at things. GOB took a break for a time, and Ade has been at RWD for a very long time. They both have passionate opinions on some topics - not at all unlike many others at RWD. Whether those opinions are borne of them being "angry" is a matter of conjecture - though I do get your point.
 

Your crazy arsed moderator continues to make outrageous statements about things she knows nothing about including accusing Billy of wanting to groom her children for child abuse (how do you spell yuck again?).  As an aside, maybe someday you can tell us what possible interest a Western woman has in any of this.  Either that or just send her a new tinfoil hat.  Might make those pesky voices go away.
[/size]

On this point your otherwise somewhat clever post teeters on the edge of the precipice.

RWD is blessed with the finest moderators and some of the finest PEOPLE anywhere. That you might disagree with one of them at some time or other is not necessarily a reflection on THEM - and to the extent you choose to engage in petty disparagement is a pretty feeble position. More than only pretty feeble, actually.

BTW - your argument/position about women having value at RWD is not a new one. I distinctly recall a nearly verbatim complain directed toward my open appreciation of, and regard for, MamaD in the very early days of RWD. Not only was she an American woman - she was a grandmother. Her only claim to a connection with our topical interests at RWD were her son's marriage to a RW and her deep and passionate proclamation of love and respect for her Russian daughter-in-law. I defended the RWD position of inclusivity then - and it remains a fundamental tenet of RWD - and it will remain so.

A’s interview is soon in Kyiv.  Billy will be there but visa issuance is slow so A will not be returning with Billy on that trip.
[/size]

I wish her/them well.

I think that about sums it up.  Hope it was objective enough.
[/size]

No, not nearly "objective enough."

Meanwhile, most of us are just glad that Billy continues to share his story and hope that all goes well for him and A at the interview and in the future. . .
[/size]

I truly do hope that "most" of our members wish for a good outcome at the interview ("good" being a matter of individual perspective, I suppose). I suspect that "most" of our members would like to see further reports so that the story is not left incomplete. Sadly, I also suspect that 'some' of our members wish to see future installments so that the drama and tensions that have been previously expressed in this topic are repeated and/or perpetuated.

If anyone would care to add further objectivity to the 'Cliff's Notes' version - I continue to welcome the offer of a *balanced* summary.

- Dan

[Daveman]

agree on all accounts.

In addition to the temptations of the life in the USA, what if somewhere along the road she plain and simple falls in love... not with Billy? Right now she is making a cynical rational choice. In future she can either remain cynical rational, or fall in love outside of marriage and starts acting irrationally. If she remains rational - in USA she will have more choices to pick from, the choices that she does not have at the moment in Ukraine. What will keep her from saying "Paul is much more reliable and stable than Billy, and he is a better provider than Billy"? Or, if she falls head over hills with her classmate/colleague, and becomes irrational, what will keep her from leaving Billy and following her heart?

valid questions... how about hypothetical option H.632 - she's actually irrational now having fallen in love with BillyB?  But....

This is the second thing that I do not understand in this story (in addition to thinking process of A's mom): the flow of Billy's reasoning. Right now, Billy says, A. picks him because he can offer her more, than local boys can offer her. OK. I can understand that. Is he going to "compete" in the same manner with fellow Americans? Based on what Billy thinks that once he won mom's A's "i do" , it will remain that way indefinitely? In a way, A already succumbed to temptation of better life in USA, vs. her current level of live/less financially stable men. What will prevent her from succumbing to temptation to improve her life even further, with a richer/younger man?
I am not saying she will do it. I am merely asking why Billy thinks she will not do it. What will he offer to her to continuously keep her interested? 

Are these points/questions not applicable to just about every one of these relationships?


Technically speaking, there is always going to be a man who is more handsome, richer, and probably younger...  cross cultural or not... and there will always be a more physically beautiful woman  who is there for the taking regardless of the couple...yet... some would not even remotely consider these as options...


The same question exists for any relationship... what is its substance?   What's in the container?  That answer either opens or closes doors...

[Daveman]

Lately the Antidate crowd has reinvaded the thread with their usual long, boring and troll like posts.

Ahh, the good ole invasion days... if this is another Wave, it certainly is a mild one.

Your crazy arsed moderator continues to make outrageous statements ...

Just for the record, she's not a moderator in this section.  As for outrageous statements... there have been those who have been in agreement with some/many/possibly all of her posts.  Most discussion fora are eclectic and diverse in beliefs, opinions, etc.  RWD is no different.  Those diverse opinions tend to clash at times.  It'd be a rather boring and tedious place if that were not so.

[Ade]

Dan-
 
Well I don’t know about objective, but I’ll give it a whirl:

Well, most would agree that was an objectivity fail. I would try to summarize myself but it would take some time to do the thread justice and I dare say I am too involved in this myself to be fully objective.

“A” was 18 at the time that she and Billy met.  Billy is in his early 40s.  This age difference has completely enraged and unhinged several of the members here and caused them to write all kinds of ridiculous things.

Although she was 18 when they met in the flesh (as far as we have been lead to believe) she was 17 when Billy started communicating with her; and very early into her 17's going by Billy's post on how long they communicated for before they met. Certain interpretations of his posts as to the timeline have even put her age as young as 16.  And that puts a totally different spin on things doesn't it? Or perhaps not, depending on your point of view I suppose.

 

GOB, the tequila fueled angry guy has been replaced by Ade, the Norwegian angry guy.

I have a nice life, a very good job, I live in an awesome country, my health is pretty good these days and I'm married to the most amazing woman that happens to be Russian. I'm not at all angry and have nothing to be angry about; you are just projecting emotions which don't exist onto my posts. I think Billy is a fool yes, and any man that takes his dating advice seriously I would also label a fool and they will reap what they sow. I certainly have issues when he puts forward his "methods" as the methods of success and that all "real" men should aspire to follow in his footsteps.

And FWIW, I'm Welsh or British if you like. For the Russians, my ethnicity is Celtic.

Both use lots of emoticons though which somehow makes it OK.

Actually most of us use them to try to convey our intent a little better.

Your crazy arsed moderator continues to make outrageous statements about things she knows nothing about including accusing Billy of wanting to groom her children for child abuse (how do you spell yuck again?).  As an aside, maybe someday you can tell us what possible interest a Western woman has in any of this.  Either that or just send her a new tinfoil hat.  Might make those pesky voices go away.

"Child abuse" is your term. Billy certainly has said/implied/inferred several times that women should encourage their daughters to overlook a man's age in favour of what he sees as the advantages of old dudes like him and, more specifically, he said this to Boethius about her daughter. Some may go as far as to call it grooming.

Now, I've spent some time searching back through Billy's extensive ramblings to confirm this in my own mind; I could post the links but seeing as you appreciate Billy's words so much I won't take the joy of that process from you .

As for your tinfoil hat crack; you obviously haven't been paying attention. Boethius has more experience of Ukraine and over a longer period than any man here bar none. She is from that culture and married to a man from that culture. She lived there for years and speaks the language. Her family are from there for crying out loud. Any man that cannot see how her contributions to a forum like this aren't relevant should probably be burning his passport. 

[mies]

.
 

[Ade]

.

Hm, I'm really curious what you said before you removed it...

[mies]

I felt that previous several posts (yours, and admin) have expressed my thoughts.

[brian131]

I think what's very interesting to note in this saga is the struggle of decent folks injecting conventional standards in an otherwise uncoventional sub-culture of the MOB. Conventionality has no place in the MOB, IMO. At least not yet....

MOB seems like a really risky undertaking.  Between cultural differences, language barriers, internet limitations and economic differences I would hold on for dear life to anything conventional I could find!

[chivo]

My objective view:
 
Bill does make some good points throughout this thread. I think where he loses his audience is his insistence that he has superior methods on how to handle the fairer sex and that all men should follow only his lead. He fails, consciously or unconsciously, to realize that other men on this board have succeeded in doing what he himself has failed to do up to this point in time. And that is successfully marry a woman from Ukraine, Russia, etc. 

The rebuttals are mostly from men whom have shown their insecurity (me included), or people who wish to impose their own moral code onto others. A code set forth by whom I'm not so sure. Whether or not someone else likes the fact that this particular girl was underage at the time the acquaintance was form just doesn't matter given how things have transpired hence forth.
 
That anyone finds Bill's actions to be against their liking or morals, well quite frankly, that's their own problem. One, in this case Bill, has to live his own life. Most here would be better served to look in the mirror and see how they can become a better person instead of telling others how they believe someone should live their life. I've always found it ironic that most can't handle their own problematic life, yet somehow seem to have all the answers for everyone else. 
 
I guess having something controversial makes for a better forum, but in real life, I say get over yourself. At some point a person has to accept the consequences of their actions. Right or wrong, we as individuals make choices that WE believe in even if those choices make no sense to others.
 
Bottom line, Bill has said some ridiculous and useful things in here. He has also underestimated some people on this forum, maybe on purpose, and I think he would have been better off redirecting his comments specifically in the direction of newbies or the few here that have been on the wrong end of their relationship with women in this part of the world or women in general.
 
His detractors should accept that their opinions and morals are theirs and theirs alone. The last thing I or anyone should do is live their life according to someone else's ideals. If you wouldn't do what Bill has done, or think what he's doing is wrong, great, but it's just your opinion, not your life. It also doesn't make you a better person to have these beliefs and morals, sorry.
 
I was hoping that this thread would die a peaceful death and that we would have better things to do in our lives and on this forum than to rehash why some think Bill is an idiot or not. Bill should also understand that he is not the be all, end all, one stop information outlet on being the ultimate male.
 
Both sides have made their point. There is not much else that needs to be said. This ship has already set sail and is not returning to port. The only left to do is to let Bill tell everyone how things play out and wish for the best. In the grand scheme of things nothing else matters.
 
P.S. Bill should also consider going back to school and relearn the English language  . 
 
 

[Turboguy]

What's "Antidate crowd"?

TAKE YOUR PICK
 
ANSWER 1.
 
The "Antidate" crowd are members of a forum for man hating Russian Women to vent their hatred of men, to give guidance to women who wish to fake domestic abuse cases in order to get citizenship, and to help women take advantage of sincere men who want only to have a happy married life.  On several occassions they have gone in mass to RW forums and spit out vile comments that disrupted the flow of the discussions. 
 
ANSWER 2.
 
The "Antidate" crowd are members of a forum designed to help women cope with the problems they face when they marry the wrong man which can happen so easily in this venture.  It is a place for them to expose men who have evil intentions and to share the problems and difficulties in life abroad and to give support and help to those in need.  In the past they have sometimes joined forums for AM and tried to make the discussions more objective by giving the other viewpoint and a woman's perspective on the situations being discussed.
 
Take your pick.  If I had to pick one I woudl go with Answer 2 but the truth is there may be some of both and the right answer might be a blending of the two.
 
Steve,  I may question the objectivity of your summary but the entertainment value is excellent.
 

[pitbull]

TAKE YOUR PICK
 
ANSWER 1.
 
The "Antidate" crowd are members of a forum for man hating Russian Women to vent their hatred of men, to give guidance to women who wish to fake domestic abuse cases in order to get citizenship, and to help women take advantage of sincere men who want only to have a happy married life.  On several occassions they have gone in mass to RW forums and spit out vile comments that disrupted the flow of the discussions. 
 
ANSWER 2.
 
The "Antidate" crowd are members of a forum designed to help women cope with the problems they face when they marry the wrong man which can happen so easily in this venture.  It is a place for them to expose men who have evil intentions and to share the problems and difficulties in life abroad and to give support and help to those in need.  In the past they have sometimes joined forums for AM and tried to make the discussions more objective by giving the other viewpoint and a woman's perspective on the situations being discussed.
 

Thanks, Turbo. I'll check it out.