Life Changes...Part Deux

[Rubicon]

"As I mention earlier in this thread mom didn't welcome me with open arms but she grew to like me. In another thread you quoted the Bible that whoever believes in Jesus should will have everlasting life. If I believe in Jesus yet I marry a younger woman who also believes in Jesus, should her mother not welcome the relationship or are we destined for hell? You should read the Bible more often and check out the age differences between couples in there. You and others shouldn't let other people's decisions bother you so much."  quote of BillyB


the message of Christ is salvation not damnation.  please don't try to put words into my mouth.  you have free choice and only God can judge you.  

of course there were age gaps in the Bible as that was written during a much older civilization.  in our modern society most parents prefer their children to marry with smaller age gaps than that between you (mid 40's?) and an 18 year old.  the biggest problem I see is that you are planning to marry someone barely out of childhood and you have children.

[BillyB]

 However, I can say that I have devoted enough love, time and energy to my kids that none of them will be offering themselves up to middle aged men/women on internet sites at age 17.

Some parents also devoted enough love, time and energy to teach their kids not to offer themselves up to Blacks, Asians, or even foreigners of the same color skin too. There are better things to teach kids about than to discriminate... even against age.

This,  my friend,  is proof that you are deluded.

Being deluded can also be defined as trying to wish someone well and insulting them at the same time. Save it Kuna.

I remember you posting about a woman or a couple of them that didn't approve of you marrying a foreigner. I'm sure they thought you were deluded too. What was your attitude towards them again?

I think you'll come to regret this thread.

Why? Because someone will read it? Do I want to lose A? No. Am I afraid to lose A? No. I value A a lot but I can also find another high quality woman. Sure I talked about dating many other women earlier in this thread but A doesn't care about my past. We talked about what she can or can't accept in the future and she can forgive me if I commit adultery but she will leave if I'm abusive.

Did you regret the trip report to your wife that you posted here? You visited other women before your eventual wife? Did you ever tell her this? Are you afraid that she'll read what you said? What you did before you were in a relationship with your wife is your business and your wife shouldn't be upset. Also, If you can't handle my version of the birds and the bees, you wouldn't be able handle A's mom's version either. I'm sure A has heard her mom's version so what I'm saying is not that big of a deal.

when A. gets her GC and leaves and you start trying again

Why are you trying to hurt me with those words? Do you know why I like high quality and beautiful women? Because they don't need me and can catch about any man. If they accept me, then I know it's probably for real. Take another look at A. Do you know what happens on the internet with beautiful ladies? Men are bragging and trying to sell themselves to catch those ladies. They talk about their great job, send photos of their cars and houses. I don't do that. I win the ladies over with my mind. In real life many men approach A on the street and beach and try their luck. If A is a materialistic girl, she has plenty of men to choose from to satisfy her needs.

you have free choice and only God can judge you.

If only God shall judge, then why did you find it strange A's mom is welcoming our relationship? As mom got to know me more and more, she like me more and more and I'm not kidding when I say mom could even accept me as her boyfriend. I have lots of success attracting older ladies besides the younger ones. Every man here should understand as he communicates with people, if he's winning them over or losing them. I'm confident when I meet a RW and her family, I can win them over without using salesman tricks.


Here are some before and after phone behavior I've noticed about A since my trip to Ukraine.

Before: A would take my calls in a separate room away from mom and friends. Mom told me she could never hear what A is talking about with me.
After: A takes all my calls in front of mom or her friends. Sometimes A would get mad at mom though. When I asked why she spoke to her mom in an angry manner, A told me mom is bothering her by playing with her hair and poking her and she can't concentrate on speaking to me.

Before: When A spoke of her future children, she spoke about "my" children.
After: Now she's says "our" when talking about future children.

Before: A talked about her dreams in general.
After: Talks about how she would like our life to be together, how she would decorate the house to make a good mood and keep it cozy.

Before: I used to call her once every 2 or 3 days.
After: She once asked me why I didn't call the day before. I took the hint and call everyday now. That's what she expects from me.

Before: We didn't talk about personal preferences when it came to inimate issues.
After: We talk about personal preferences such as the birth control method we will use. No condoms.

Some things never changed. A never cuts off our conversations short unless she's in the shower or extremely busy and will tell me to call back in 5-10 min. Whether our conversations last a few minutes or hours, it's me that ends the phone call. She never told me but as long as I want to keep talking, she will remain on the phone. A likes to talk to me too. She almost always talks more than I do.

Sometimes A is ill and she will apologize the next day to me for not sounding so cheerful or at a loss for words. I like the fact she has the ability to apology for even something I don't think she should apologize for. That is just one example of how she extends her good manners to me. If she thinks I didn't enjoy my call to her, it would be on her mind until she can aplologize.

A is shy and bashful. At least with me she is. She certainly is the most shy and bashful lady I've ever seen that wears 4 inch(10 cm) heels.

[Boethius]

Some parents also devoted enough love, time and energy to teach their kids not to offer themselves up to Blacks, Asians, or even foreigners of the same color skin too. There are better things to teach kids about than to discriminate... even against age.

You missed the point.  It wasn't about age.  It was about trolling for men on the internet.

The fact that A tells you she would forgive you for adultery tells me she does not love you.  Any woman who is being honest will tell you the same thing.

[erudite]

This complete thread is REALLY a hoot to read and imagine such a Lothario/Don Juan/Casanova loose in Ukraine deluding himself about so much.    Please continue.........

[Kuna]

The fact that A tells you she would forgive you for adultery tells me she does not love you.  Any woman who is being honest will tell you the same thing.

I can't believe we've finally agreed on something.   

This complete thread is REALLY a hoot to read and imagine such a Lothario/Don Juan/Casanova loose in Ukraine deluding himself about so much.    Please continue.........

I just saw the number of "reads" this thread has had...  Billy is very popular...  he's like the Elephant Man of RWD.




Billy,  I was trying to be kind because I sense you need it.  You really do come off as the kid that was picked on at school and now you spend your time fantasising about how great and powerful you are...  it's actually very sad.

I hope it works out for you because everyone (Except Greens voters) deserves to be happy. 

Please don't take offence... It's all very entertaining.  I'm waiting for the breakup story because I'm certain you'll come up with something none of us could have ever imagined. 

[BillyB]

This complete thread is REALLY a hoot to read and imagine such a Lothario/Don Juan/Casanova loose in Ukraine deluding himself about so much.    Please continue.........

I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'm sure this thread has shocked, amazed, and/or disgusted some. I'm not shocked by the ladies I've dated or the experience I have. There's no delusion on my part either. Maybe some of you guys get butterflies in your stomach or choke when trying to get a wonderful women to date you but I don't have that problem. Why do some of you think I'm trying to portray myself as a Don Juan or Casanova? I'm not out to date every girl for fun and that is not the message I'm trying to put out. To catch a good high quality woman, you have to date a lot of ladies to find her and you have to be a good man for her to want you too. No matter whether one likes me or hates me after reading this thread, many wish they could attract women as successfully and catch a high quality woman such as A and beauty alone doesn't make a woman high quality.

Erudite, you or any man here is free to let us know how you attract the opposite sex and I hope it's not with money and a call to the local pimp.

It wasn't about age.  It was about trolling for men on the internet.

You make it sound as if A is wanting multiple men in her life. Someday your daughter may have the need for a man in her life. She may troll, as you call it, the internet or troll for men in public places whether she meets a guy at work, school or anywhere. I hope you don't suppress your daughters desires by telling her that searching for a good man in her life is a bad thing but instead teach her what to look for in a quality man. Keep in mind, you caught your man when you were at an age younger than A when some in society wanted your relationship with him dissolved.

Don't worry. Most people who enter into a relationship that fails end up surviving just fine. You don't need to worry about A and you don't need to worry about me. There are plenty of women who have chosen men much worse than I.

The fact that A tells you she would forgive you for adultery tells me she does not love you.

It seems to me you're making up things to suit beliefs. You had predicted doom before I even visited A. Once you made up your mind that someone is wrong, you don't let up or reevaluate your opinions. You made up your mind before I described A's manners and character and after I spoke of her, you still have the same conclusion. The future boyfriend of your daughter should be very afraid.

Boethius, you and I think very different and it's not going to change. Remember NickB's trip report? You thought it okay if a RW asks for a $700 coat from a man during his first visit and I didn't? I try to encourage guys to communicate with the prospective lady(s) thoroughly before visiting them to make sure they would not be wasting time with materialistic women. The goal is to meet women who are good hostesses and cook me home cooked meals not because they want to be a slave, but because they actually care about me and wanting to show me what they could bring into a relationship. There are girls that are only good to have fun with and girls that are wife material. Girl wanting $700 worth of merchandise within the first few dates is not wife material.

It's safe to say that if a man cheats on his woman, he doesn't love or respect her. If a woman chooses to forgive or not forgive, that is her choice. You and Kuna saying if a woman forgives her man for infidelity, she doesn't love him is ridiculous. If anything, if a woman is able to forgive her man, it's probably because she loves him enough to remain with him. You have been married to your Ukrainian husband for around 20 years, right? If he commits adultery, would you throw everything away so easily in an effort to show you love him because by your definition, if you forgive him, you don't love him.

I'm waiting for the breakup story because I'm certain you'll come up with something none of us could have ever imagined.

When you find yourself upset after reading about me enjoying life in the thread "Life Changes part 3" then you will have your breakup story.


I'll let you guys in on a little secret. A preferred to find a younger man to marry. She also understands most of society won't look upon our marriage favorably simply because of our age difference. I asked her why she chose me. She said age was a factor against me but it's a minor factor. The most important factors for her was that a man be good, wise, provide stability in her life and made her feel comfortable. She said other men didn't seem serious for a serious relationship or talked stupid. She is happy she found me and is very excited  about her future life with me. One of her goals is to marry once in her life and she understands she needs a good, wise and stable man to make that goal come true.

A never told me she loves me but she tells me she misses me in 95% of my calls to her. Ever since my visit to her she started to put heart symbols in her emails to me. There's not much reason for us to write by email anymore but she continues to send me lots of photos. She wants to share her life with me even though we're far apart. Ever since my visit to A our bond has become stronger although we're separated by time and distance.

[Faux Pas]

A never told me she loves me but she tells me she misses me in 95% of my calls to her. Ever since my visit to her she started to put heart symbols in her emails to me. There's not much reason for us to write by email anymore but she continues to send me lots of photos. She wants to share her life with me even though we're far apart. Ever since my visit to A our bond has become stronger although we're separated by time and distance.

Now please let me clarify this in my own mind. You have started a K-1 and plan to marry a girl young enough to be your daughter and she hasn't told you that she loves you? Yet you are comfortable enough in yourself that this doesn't matter and she "does" love you even though she hasn't told you. Along with the self confidence, sexual prowess you are also psychic?

Very bizarre Billy. Very bizarre. The more you tell the more bizarre it becomes.

[Smile_too]

Sorry BillyB I don't want to offend you any way and I see that you made your decision - now you are just at the period of euphoria - very young and beautiful girl is in your arms. I wish you to enjoy this period as long as possible - love is a great feeling. Ok your girl is not against to forgive you for adultery but what about you? are you a jealous person???
If you are a little bit very soon after the marriage you will make the life of both the real hell. There is a great risk to crush good relations by your own hands. I think A will start study she  will speak with boys of her age there would be always several around her. What about you? What about parties and dancing??? are you going to visit dancing clubs? or you are going to close this child at home and controle every step? You don't mind that she doesn't know life but she is at the age when she is curious about sex and adventures. She needs to get her experience. How much it worries you? How would be your life like and how long can you keep yourself.
What about your sex-life? are you sure you are good match for each other? If not how long she will not be against?

[SomeGuy]

I'll let you guys in on a little secret. A preferred to find a younger man to marry. She also understands most of society won't look upon our marriage favorably simply because of our age difference. I asked her why she chose me. She said age was a factor against me but it's a minor factor. The most important factors for her was that a man be good, wise, provide stability in her life and made her feel comfortable. She said other men didn't seem serious for a serious relationship or talked stupid. She is happy she found me and is very excited  about her future life with me. One of her goals is to marry once in her life and she understands she needs a good, wise and stable man to make that goal come true.

Where is the 'secret' in this?  The 'secret' of common sense that it seems like narcissism makes you believe only you can see?
The problem is not really in her proxied statements; they make sense.  However, do you really believe those statements mean the exact same thing to her as you (or I, or ... ) may read them?  Perspectives do change over time, your own included.  People can argue how much they change at different time periods, and some may claim they haven't changed 'much,' but most do accept a significant amount of change often happens in going from a teenager to a woman (or man). 
A statement of looking for 'good, wise, provide stability and making her feel comfortable' may be entirely true from her standpoint and experience so far in her young life.  Given some time and experience, do you think it unlikely for her to realize she could get those same things in someone 5 years her elder?  Do you believe that her perspective won't change, likely significantly in some ways, between now and her at age 30?

I'm not saying anything negative about her, simply pointing out that even if she believes today 100% in her statements, her perceptions and experience will change, just like 10 years ago her most prized possession may have been a favorite doll that she couldn't imagine living without, until some time later when she realized that she could.  That doesn't make a child's attachment or beliefs any less valid at the time she loved/needed her doll, but it does give an example of an easily related to change as someone grew up, gained maturity and experience in 'real life' over time.  Think of many college students if you'd prefer, who has just moved in to his or her first real apartment that has to be paid for along with life's expenses, for the first time, 100% by them.  There is a point at which there is a significant change in perspective there as well, maybe when a job is lost, when bills far exceed income, whatever the trigger.

To be fair, I have little doubt that if this girl were 10 years older that you would be receiving far less flack on that account, and then only on what comes across as severe narcissism/NPD, but therein lies the problem; a majority of people would not consider a 17/18/19/20 year old to be without some life and perspective changes of significance yet to come, nor would they believe that somehow they alone 'know' exactly what those changes will be, that they will somehow be in 'control' of those changes, or that they 'know all.'  While age gap definitely comes into play in this thread for some/many, it's certainly exaggerated further by her current age.

There are some times in life where the simplest solution is indeed the likely answer - that statistics, probabilities, common sense, and a consistent opinion of others may just have something to them, while ego, narcissism, or some other strong factor simply makes it difficult if not impossible for someone to see.

It's an interesting thread, with thanks for sharing it, regardless of the outcome.  Somehow I doubt that many people will 'learn' things that you've stated one of the intents of the thread, due to the delivery and contents, but it's still an interesting read.

Good luck in whatever happens, to both of you.

[BC]

Defensive verbosity spread over 27 pages of this thread is what really nags.

A never told me she loves me but she tells me she misses me in 95% of my calls to her. Ever since my visit to her she started to put heart symbols in her emails to me. There's not much reason for us to write by email anymore but she continues to send me lots of photos. She wants to share her life with me even though we're far apart. Ever since my visit to A our bond has become stronger although we're separated by time and distance.

Maybe doing a little venting here in lieu of A running out of words?  Especially the three important in a relationship?

[felix8787]

Ever since my visit to her she started to put heart symbols in her emails to me.

I don't know about you guys, but this sign is a "slam dunk", there is no refuting this!!! <3's in the emails OMG!!! The world has stopped, that's it! It's over!
Guys looking for a RW, watch for this <3. When you see this, then it's true love, there's no need to express it anymore, it's all in the email!!! So remember <3, when you see this, nothing else matters!

[ECOCKS]

WHAT

A

CROCK.

[dbneeley]

You're lucky you met in Algeria--in most U.S. States, you'd have been chargeable with statutory rape for sexual relations with a minor. In Texas, in fact, it is impossible for a girl under 18 to consent to sex with a man more than a couple years her senior--regardless of her consent, it is still statutory rape.

No matter how "mature" she seems, there are many changes she'll go through over the next few years. Assuming you marry, the strong likelihood is that it'll be fairly temporary.

Note that is a "likelihood" and not a complete given. Some do survive--just enough, in fact, to make someone cling to the idea that it can, in fact, work. The overwhelming percentage, however, do not last.

I do hope you have enough sense to avoid having children for a few years, though. The victims of the early divorces are usually small kids.

David

[BC]

You're lucky you met in Algeria--in most U.S. States, you'd have been chargeable with statutory rape for sexual relations with a minor. In Texas, in fact, it is impossible for a girl under 18 to consent to sex with a man more than a couple years her senior--regardless of her consent, it is still statutory rape.

No matter how "mature" she seems, there are many changes she'll go through over the next few years. Assuming you marry, the strong likelihood is that it'll be fairly temporary.

Note that is a "likelihood" and not a complete given. Some do survive--just enough, in fact, to make someone cling to the idea that it can, in fact, work. The overwhelming percentage, however, do not last.

I do hope you have enough sense to avoid having children for a few years, though. The victims of the early divorces are usually small kids.

David

David,

LOL that's a bit harsh.. the US laws are quite strict and old fashioned.  Berlusconi is not getting hits because the girl was 17 but that he gave her something as compensation or enticement which is illegal if the girl is under 18..  Although some might have objected if she were 14 it would not be illegal in most cases unless he was her teacher, stepchild or such.. that would have to wait till she was 16. 

I do cut Billy a little slack on that point.  The rest of your post I find quite 'in ordnung'.  At that age, big changes are to be expected and a 'whim' can change things overnight.

Billy is going to do what Billy wants to do.  Although his 'conquest' of A seems like a big deal to him at this point, it's really not.  Finding a woman or girl that will marry you is the easiest part.

[Jumper]

It's time for some of the guys here MAN up.

 

Irony at its finest BillyB.


Just because we give you some grief for contacting and dating a high school senior?
or that we view it a bit amusing or weird for you to do so?
Sorry it IS a bit odd and amusing for a man that is socially viable and dating regularly,
 to date a teenager.

Yes absolutely the fact she doesnt tell you often now, would bother me.
I'm not insecure Billy,that's an  amusing thought!! lol In fact over confident if anything.
 But I am realistic, i know from experience that any woman truly in love with me ,when apart in particular,
 will tell me fairly often that she  misses me , and loves me.It is a natural interaction for most couples in love.

An infatuated  teenager even more so.
 
*A* may *love* you, and as you say she has told you in the past, and shown by her actions ..
but that word carries so many different levels of human emotion, endearing, loving, nurturing , passionate, etc, or any combination of feelings..
She may not be at that level yet.. so why not pursue the relationship until it gets to a minimum of that level?

No MAN coming here in your situation would be told its a good idea to  proceed with a K1 at this juncture,
if at all, and you know that.

*dating an 18yo, she loves him but doesn't tell him that now.. has  spent one vacation together and filing a K1*

So complain all you want about the advise or jabs given because the truth is this:
If you were 21 ,or 24 yo,  the advise would still be the same Billy,

to take more time.

If she was 30, you are right that there would be far less flack,but people would still advise you

to take more time
to solidify your relationship.

 Rushing this, even slightly , under the specific circumstances, makes it appear  bizarre.


It may work out ,, but you as a MAN , are rolling the dice with  a teenagers life choice,
and peddling around that issue when confronted!
 by saying she could do worse, or saying that  if ultimately it dint pan out ,
it's not the end of the world!!
(wow what a lame justification for doing what YOU want, billy)
Your cavalier attitude here towards that responsibility does not give the MANly MAN vibe that we are
expecting from you.

You see Billy B, I just never expected our hero Manly Man to be nabbing up some 18yo prom queen ,who is also the valedictorian,  in reading the latest adventures of manly man comics, yes its the age,
and yes thats how most people are going to view it.As NOT Manly.

Most people in society are going to advise you to MAN up and stop chasing a teenager.
It is not Manly.The local HS cheerleaders other fine attributes are not an acceptable justification to the readers of  Manly Man comics, and you have plenty of evidence of that here.

Ask yourself why that might be?
it  is not jealously billy , your ego needs a check on that ..
It may be unfair social norms or mentality,but those you and her will have to face.

She may feel she can handle that, and she may be quite able to do so.
but she hasn't lived it daily yet, the stares ,the whispers, the gawking ,the being mistaken for your daughter
at the store or on a night out.This would happen in Ukraine or the west, in the west it will have the added
stigma of MOB.Maybe shes quite strong and independent as you say,
yet her actions also speak of a bit of immaturity, shyness and effected by her living situation, (still at home with Mother)



I do wish you both the best..

I just hope  some of the many comments make you take a deep breath,
realize the extent of what you are doing , and take a bit more  time.

No one would  marry a teenager lightly,
and i think you are a serious man billy, but it does not come off that way in your posts.
It comes off as "I'm a great guy, so if it doesn't  work out ,we will both survive"
while true enough I'm sure,  that actually sounds more like a teenagers reasoning's..

 
 
 

[Boethius]

  AJ.

I'm beginning to believe I am more of a man than Billy.

[GoodOlBoy]

If you had more experience with other children,....

OH PLEASE!!
Don't encourage him to "chase" any more children young Russian girls. :evil:

GOB

[TomT]

It's also abnormal for a 17 yo girl to know 5 languages and have exceptionally good manners. Somebody is going to marry that abnormal girl. Why not me?

I was under the impression that your girl was 18 but, now, the 17 number is being thrown around. Just so you know, Billy, travelling abroad for the purpose of having sex with a minor and having sex with a minor (even if it wasn't the original purpose of the trip) are both federal crimes. If she really is a minor, then it would be a really good thing if the closest that you two have come to sex is discussion about coitus interruptus, your legendary virility and your splendid equipment.

[Boethius]

I believe she just turned 18, but he began contact with her when she was 17.

[TomT]

It's good to know that things haven't hit rock bottom.

[Boethius]

Barely legal is yes, legal.  Not necessarily moral, though.

[mies]

As I mention earlier in this thread, "no". He is a major for INTERPOL working in a different country.

Ok, here is my version of events.
A and her mom are either spies or recruited by the terrorists during trip to Lybia (or before).
Now they need to legally get into USA to continue building their plot. That explains girl's 5 languages, her trip to Europe for "studying/exams", and her "mom" tolerating rude remarks of 40+ yo dude sitting in her kitchen and telling her 17yo daughter "you should start doing kitchenwork with your mom because this is what you will do in my house". Yeah, what a fantastic "career" prospective for an educated and well-mannered teenager who speaks 5 languages and whose dad is a major in INTERPOL. DUH  

"Mom" would prefer to get Billy's interest so that she doesn't have to use the teenager girl as a skapegoat. But for now, Billy is only into "young meat". So "mom" and "daughter" keep him hooked.

[SANDRO43]

A and her mom are either spies or recruited by the terrorists during trip to Lybia (or before). Now they need to legally get into USA to continue building their plot. That explains girl's 5 languages, her trip to Europe for "studying/exams", and her "mom" tolerating rude remarks of 40+ dude sitting in her kitchen and telling her 17yo daughter "you should start doing kitchenwork with your mom because this is what you will do in my house". Yeah, what a fantastic "career" prospective for an educated and well-mannered teenager who speaks 5 languages and whose dad is a major in INTERPOL. DUH 

The plot thickens . Maybe she's a perspective new FSB/GRU mole, now that Anna Chapman has been exposed and is no longer operative .

[GQBlues]

Ok, here is my version of events.
A and her mom are either spies or recruited by the terrorists during trip to Lybia (or before). Now they need to legally get into USA to continue building their plot. That explains girl's 5 languages, her trip to Europe for "studying/exams", and her "mom" tolerating rude remarks of 40+ yo dude sitting in her kitchen and telling her 17yo daughter "you should start doing kitchenwork with your mom because this is what you will do in my house". Yeah, what a fantastic "career" prospective for an educated and well-mannered teenager who speaks 5 languages and whose dad is a major in INTERPOL. DUH  

"Mom" would prefer to get Billy's interest so that she doesn't have to use the teenager girl as a skapegoat. But for now, Billy is only into "young meat". So "mom" and "daughter" keep him hooked.

Egads 'A' is Anna, eh? Of course I know you're just joking there, mies...but you know big brother may not think so....they're a bit short on humor these days... 

Just so you know, Billy, travelling abroad for the purpose of having sex with a minor and having sex with a minor (even if it wasn't the original purpose of the trip) are both federal crimes. If she really is a minor, then it would be a really good thing if the closest that you two have come to sex is discussion about coitus interruptus, your legendary virility and your splendid equipment.

What's wrong with having a pet Boa?

[mies]

Egads 'A' is Anna, eh? Of course I know you're just joking there, mies...but you know big brother may not think so....they're a bit short on humor these days... 

you never know... to me this story looks way too bizarre.