ML and Ukrainian Women.

[Misha]

No age range on the mortgage.  But a woman over 50 would usually have enough assets that she'd have some equity going in and if not, there are lots of condos in that price range.

Here are a few homes under $250,000 in Calgary -

Let's see, the first one I clicked had this message: " This is a great property to re-develop. Land Value. Check out all the in fills in this area. All attached chattels are sold 'as is'"

This would be realtor speak for a rat-infested-hovel-if-Alberta-had-rats.

[Misha]

I know.    If we go back to the original point, an over 50 woman with a $60,000 income, fairly significant monthly debt, and zero savings can qualify for a $250,000 mortgage.  I agree, it is more likely she would purchase a condominium than a house.  The house came in as part of a subsequent riposte. 

IRL, I know of no women over 50 who have worked all their lives and have no assets.

The original riposte was that two incomes would provide a better quality of life. You proved my point: the $250k houses that you found are being sold so they can be torn down as nobody would actually want to live in them. The married couple each earning $60k could buy the $500k house that would not be condemned in the near future.

[Boethius]

The point is, one can, if one wishes, acquire a home for $250,000 in an Alberta city.  The price point is for the lot, but it doesn't mean it is condemnable.   Of course, a woman could take your course of action and marry someone she may not love so that she can live more cheaply.

BTW, I have friends who purchased homes in such areas, in worse condition than any of those listed, put in sweat equity, and sold them to move to bigger properties.  My entire childhood was in a house that was no better than any of those listed, and I survived.

[LiveFromUkraine]

IMVHO, a woman (or man) who earns less than $100k and does not own their house outright would be better off married to someone who warns as much as they do or more.

It depends on the players of the game.


If both partners work towards a common plan then, yes, it may be better.   If one partner or both partners spends money without regard, well, forget about it. 


As a single person, I need very little compared to when I was married.  Apparently I needed a lot more when married.  I wonder what changed?   

[Ooooops]

Of course, a woman could take your course of action and marry someone she may not love so that she can live more cheaply.

This is a sad and scary thought...       

[LiveFromUkraine]

According to a recent news report I watched on TV, in 40% of the US families, women are the bigger bread winners now. In Canada the number is reportedly 18%. The future will show what they will believe in after they are in their 50s

Yeah, it sounds about what I have read in different sources.  Pretty big numbers and will continue to grow, imo.  I think you will see something similar to the African American groups where the number of educated women will outgrow the men significantly.  This has led to problems with women finding what they would consider adequate men to marry.

[Ooooops]

I wonder what changed?   

Size of your closets?      

[LiveFromUkraine]

Size of your closets?   

I stopped wearing socks.    Life is simple without socks.  Try it!

[Misha]

The point is, one can, if one wishes, acquire a home for $250,000 in an Alberta city.  The price point is for the lot, but it doesn't mean it is condemnable.   Of course, a woman could take your course of action and marry someone she may not love so that she can live more cheaply.

What I am saying is that there are economic benefits to being married and because of this most in the middle classes tend to get married or stay married because it offers advantages including issues of quality of life that includes economic returns as well as social and psychological and health...

Though I do not always agree with everything he writes, here Frum summarizes quite well the benefits of marriage and its importance to the middle-class:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/opinion/frum-marriage?c=&page=1

My entire childhood was in a house that was no better than any of those listed, and I survived.

My early childhood years were spent in a decrepit shack on a homestead with a wood stove and an outhouse. I would never want to live in one or pay $250k for one either 

[Boethius]

This is a sad and scary thought...   

Yes, it is.  And you know what is equally scary?  Being a woman who does not have an ability to earn her own living.  In the past month, in the course of structuring tax efficient separations, I have had two crying middle aged women in my office, both of whom had husbands leave them for younger women.  Both were stay at home wives, and both were negotiated down to less than they are legally entitled to on settlements by hard nosed businessmen, though each had competent legal counsel.  One hasn't worked in 20 years (raised five children), and while she has a good settlement, it's not enough for the rest of her life.  She has gone back to school.  The second has no prospect to do this, I don't know what will happen to her, but she will get the matrimonial home and some cash, though not enough to be fully comfortable.

My mother always told her daughters to be educated and work, because life is long and you don't know what will happen.  We have all worked, always, mostly out of necessity, though one of us did not have to work had she chosen not to.  When I see these cases, I have to admit, I am glad I can rely on myself for my economic freedom. (are you listening, Aloe???)

[Boethius]

What I am saying is that there are economic benefits to being married and because of this most in the middle classes tend to get married or stay married because it offers advantages including issues of quality of life that includes economic returns as well as social and psychological and health...

I don't dispute any of that, however, if a woman over 50 is economically stable, she doesn't need a man just so she can live cheaply, and single women, IIRC, live longest of all.   I fully understand why ML's friend has stated she will not remarry.
 

[Ooooops]

In the past month, in the course of structuring tax efficient separations, I have had two crying middle aged women in my office, both of whom had husbands leave them for younger women. Both were stay at home wives, and both were negotiated down to less than they are legally entitled to on settlements by hard nosed businessmen, though each had competent legal counsel. 

That sucks...   But then, again - the person you are divorcing is not the same person you married....  

[Misha]

I don't dispute any of that, however, if a woman over 50 is economically stable, she doesn't need a man just so she can live cheaply, and single women, IIRC, live longest of all.   I fully understand why ML's friend has stated she will not remarry.

The woman ML referred to was more than "stable" and would represent a tiny percentage of all Americans female and male. Sure, a woman doesn't need a man, but if she does find a partner and does marry then both she and s/he (she could marry another woman as this would not matter) would both gain in terms of economic potential. The simple fact is that two incomes will push a household up financially.

[Boethius]

It's still not a sufficient reason to seek a mate. 

[Misha]

It's still not a sufficient reason to seek a mate.

No, it will be motivated by love, but the result will be the same. Though, yes, women are less likely to remarry, most Americans for example tend to remarry within five years of a divorce.

[Muzh]

The point is, one can, if one wishes, acquire a home for $250,000 in an Alberta city.  The price point is for the lot, but it doesn't mean it is condemnable.   Of course, a woman could take your course of action and marry someone she may not love so that she can live more cheaply.

BTW, I have friends who purchased homes in such areas, in worse condition than any of those listed, put in sweat equity, and sold them to move to bigger properties.  My entire childhood was in a house that was no better than any of those listed, and I survived.

Forget Alberta. Here, take a look at this.
 
http://www.hawaiilife.com/mls/1209360/
 
BTW, last year it was selling for $99K

[ML]

Sometime after I go to bed tonight, Ochka will be getting inside the aluminum tube to begin her journey back to me.

I was a little late in turning on my Skype today because I got caught out in a thunderstorm with severe lightning and heavy downpour of rain.  Had to pull off the road and park for over half an hour until it let up enough to see the car in front.

And she had a lot of anxiety about my 'absence.'  Thought I had decided to not want her to return to me in USA.

Tomorrow is predicted to have a lot of rain and lightning all across eastern USA . . . so I hope her flight is not diverted to some other airport, with later flights rebooked to complete her journey.

She is only returning with the clothes she is wearing, so I am packing some of her clothes to take with me to the airport,  as we will be spending a couple of days in the big city.

In packing her various items of clothing . . . I got somewhat excited.

What's with that!!

[ML]

Ochka arrived back in USA on Thursday evening.  The beginning was a little rough, despite fact this was her third arrival.

She had a USA based CDMA mobile phone with her (as well as her Ukrainian GSM phone), and I had told her to call my mobile AFTER she had gone through passport control and customs control.

I always wait for her at the baggage carousel.

My phone rings.

Her:  I have my luggage and am heading for the exit.

Me:  What!  You can't have your luggage; I am at the carousel and no luggage from your flight is here.  What exit are you at?

Her:  I can't understand your words.  I have my luggage.

Me:  What luggage do you have; your carry-on?

Her:  Yes.

Me:  Is that all you have; your carry-on?

Her:  I also have my checked luggage.

Me:  You can't have.  What exit are you heading for?

Her:  The sign says exit.  I can't hear you well.

(I then hustle to the escalator and head upstairs toward exit)

Me:  What exit are you at?

Her:  I can't understand you.  I will call you later.

(I then go back down to baggage carousel assigned for her flight and am getting a huge headache)

15 minutes pass; then 20.  Finally baggage starts to come down the  chute.

My phone rings again.

Her:  Where are you?

Me:  I am at baggage area; where are you?

Her:  Where am I supposed to go?

Me:  Go to carousel X.

Her:  Where is that;  Oh, I see you now.


Me - - - looking very stern at her.  So you don't have your baggage.  Why did you tell me you did and that you were heading for exit?

Her - - - I did have my checked bag, but then I had to give it back and they put it on belt.

Me - - - I told you to call me AFTER you had gone through customs.  You aren't even supposed to turn on your mobile until you go through customs.

Her - - - I did go through passport.

Me - - - but customs is always next after passport.  You get your bags after passport and before customs, you go through customs and then put your bags back on belt and they arrive here.  You have already done this twice before.

Her - - - I didn't remember.

Me - - - You had me worried to death as to where you were in the  airport - - - I thought you were really outside the terminal somewhere.

Her - - - looking very downcast.

Me - - - OK.   Hugs and kisses.

Her - - - sorry honey.

But the rest of the evening and night was great.
Both she and I usually get over minor squabbles quickly and never refer to them again.

[LAman]

Really ML......this is 3rd time?? Why don't you just wait just outside area where everybody from flight comes out of.......with anticipation......then you can hug and kiss and profess your 'missing' each other.
You are too wrapped up in knowing exactly where she is...in the process.
I really thought you would be so into Ochka...we wouldn't see you here much...guess I was wrong!!!

[Ooooops]

You get your bags after passport and before customs, you go through customs and then put your bags back on belt and they arrive here. 

I didn't get this...   What luggage belt after customs?

[ML]

Really ML......this is 3rd time?? Why don't you just wait just outside area where everybody from flight comes out of.......with anticipation......then you can hug and kiss and profess your 'missing' each other.
You are too wrapped up in knowing exactly where she is...in the process.
I really thought you would be so into Ochka...we wouldn't see you here much...guess I was wrong!!!

Don't understand your surprise, etc., concerning 3rd time.
The point about third time was that we had already done this twice without problems, so I was quite surprised at her actions and words this third time around.

And, the baggage carousel area IS the area that everyone from flights are first in contact with anyone not on flights.  Those waiting  for someone cannot get to any areas closer.

I was 'wrapped up in knowing exactly where she was' SIMPLY BECAUSE I CARE VERY MUCH FOR HER SAFETY, and it seemed like she had somehow gotten outside the terminal when I was inside.

GEEZ . . . this is taking care of  your woman 101.

I was gone from here for 4 days 'catching up.'
Now need a rest.

[ML]

I didn't get this...   What luggage belt after customs?

Airports are all different with different procedures.

Here, international  flights come into a separate terminal that is quite some distance from the main airport area.

The luggage is retrieved by each passenger after passport control  and before customs control (this part is pretty standard), and each passenger takes their own luggage through customs control.

Then, because there is some distance to the terminal exit and parking area, the checked luggage is placed on conveyor belts which takes it to the regular carousel area near exit.  There is no choice about this, because people then ride on small trains (which haven't space for checked luggage) to exit area .

So it's impossible for someone to 'have luggage and be heading for exit (as she told me she was doing)' without first being in carousel area.

And I was at the assigned carousel which had not received any luggage from her flight.  Hence my extreme confusion and worry about her whereabouts, etc.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Don't understand your surprise, etc., concerning 3rd time.
The point about third time was that we had already done this twice without problems, so I was quite surprised at her actions and words this third time around.

And, the baggage carousel area IS the area that everyone from flights are first in contact with anyone not on flights.  Those waiting  for someone cannot get to any areas closer.

I was 'wrapped up in knowing exactly where she was' SIMPLY BECAUSE I CARE VERY MUCH FOR HER SAFETY, and it seemed like she had somehow gotten outside the terminal when I was inside.

GEEZ . . . this is taking care of  your woman 101.

I was gone from here for 4 days 'catching up.'
Now need a rest.

Would she have died the minute she walked outside the terminal?  You should put a chip in her so you can track her by phone.

[Ooooops]

Then, because there is some distance to the terminal exit and parking area, the checked luggage is placed on conveyor belts which takes it to the regular carousel area near exit.  There is no choice about this, because people then ride on small trains (which haven't space for checked luggage) to exit area .

Very weird (and not too safe) arrangement, if you ask me...    Is it Orlando airport?

So it's impossible for someone to 'have luggage and be heading for exit (as she told me she was doing)' without first being in carousel area.

Looks like it is possible   

After clearing Immigration and Customs: You may either keep your checked bags with you, or place them on the baggage belt for transfer to the Main Terminal, before taking the escalator/stairs up to the AGT station

http://www.orlandoairports.net/arrive/

[ML]

Very weird (and not too safe) arrangement, if you ask me...   

I don't understand your comment about not  safe.
Do you mean someone getting into luggage?
It's all the same system and airport personnel involved all the way from plane to carousel; so risk of theft no different.