Novosibirsk Doesn't Believe in Tears: TwoBit's Sixteen Days In Novosibirsk

[Jooky]

If I had to base my experience dating these women, the suggestion that somehow there's a different set of rules in dating these women is completely bogus for me. IMO, women react to the same stimuli the world over.

I think it depends on your approach.

When you were dating women in Cali, did you use tactics like not returning calls, acting disinterested and aloof? What do you think of the stuff the master Pick Up Artists teach (if you know anything about it)?

The thing is, those dating tactics do work here. In Russia, especially with women who haven't been outside of Russia... not so much.

In my experience dating in Russia is less game and more straightforward. It's definitely easier.

[kievstar]

Did not catch the Greece and Turkey and changes my opinion as she probably told TBB who she was going to be with.  TBB, if you have a hard time understanding Russian you might do better in the future finding women who speak English or use a translator. 

On a different note Karya tour went bankrupt and Tez Tour and Ukraine embassy in Turkey had to rescue Ukraine tourists.  Anybody booking a travel package through Turkey be careful.  The travel companies are not paying the bills.  Some Russian tour operators have reneged as well.

[OlgaH]

Women in in Russia in their mid-twenties will be very self-conscious of the fact that they are not married, their married friends (i.e. most of their friends) will see them as a potential threat, and they may have already surveyed the pool of eligible bachelors and have concluded that the pickings range from slim to nonexistent.

Misha, women in Russia can tell big thanks for their mentality: "to get married as soon as possible" to the stereotypes existed for long time "that every woman should be married unconditionally" By the way while they are try to "jump into marriage" earlier, sometimes even without education, the reality shows that there is a huge percent of divorces in Russia and initiators mostly are women (70% if there are child/children and an apartment involved), the most divorces fall on the young people (18-36). The main reason for divorces are: alcoholism, drug-addiction, financial problems and no place to live in.  Interesting fact that the marital infidelity is not considered to be a reason for divorce. Yep, such a strange mentality to get married to be divorced  

But situation has begun to change and in the big megalopolises young women have started to postpone the idea of marriage till their social establishment. In provinces especially in small towns marriages in early age still happen due to a woman's pregnancy.

Misha, when you see playboy style photos of women in their 20s (mid or late) on the websites of dating agencies do you think they are marriage minded?

[Misha]

But situation has begun to change and in the big megapolises young women have started to postpone the idea of marriage till their social establishment. In provinces especially in small towns marriages in early age still happen due to a woman's pregnancy.

Olga, you yourself have used the key words: have BEGUN to change. In other words the change has started, it is far from complete. In a decade or two, things will be different, but it is still not the case.

As for the pregnancy as a cause of marriage, you overlook the fact that for most years in the past two decades, abortions have outnumbered live births. Many women don't get married if they get pregnant, so if pregnancy leads to marriage, it is generally because the women wanted to get married.

Misha, when you see playboy style photos of women in their 20s (mid or late) on the websites of dating agencies do you think they are marriage minded?

Olga, how many women in their twenties have you dated?  :evil: Sorry, couldn't resist  The fact of the matter is that I dated quite a number of women in their mid-twenties. Almost all were marriage minded. I did not meet any women at that age, while dating or otherwise, who did not want to be married. Many acquaintances, young women that I met or the daughters of friends, for the most part are now all married with children or wanting to have children in their twenties. The women that you refer to not wanting to get married until their thirties may be out there in Russia, but I did not meet any of them 

[GQBlues]

When you were dating women in Cali, did you use tactics like not returning calls, acting disinterested and aloof? What do you think of the stuff the master Pick Up Artists teach (if you know anything about it)?

The thing is, those dating tactics do work here. In Russia, especially with women who haven't been outside of Russia... not so much.

In my experience dating in Russia is less game and more straightforward. It's definitely easier.

That's just it. I never had any pre-conceived, pre-planned, pre-structured disposition, tactics, etc...with any of the women I socially ran across with before. I never subscribed, read, researched, learned any dating 101 tips from anyone or anywhere. I would think that simply confine your instincts and would likely shape you into something you're not instinctively equipped and capable to carry on through. My hormones were enough to drive my education and motivation.

I never had any pre-constructed line at any one time I walked up to a woman. Never once. My friends used to ask and wonder what I tell these women. I never knew what to tell them because I never bothered with lines. Almost to the very last nano-second do the words come rushing out of me and seem to always get her locked on. This is why I believe it is even far easier when there's more than just one woman. Especially if they're all gorgeous. What is it I end up saying? I can't tell you cause I do not know. I see someone I like, I walk to her and lock her on. That is part of the reason why I do not like 'wingmen'. I don't like to travel in a pack. Going solo is the only way to go, you travel light so you can be very flexible on up to your ensuing sleeping accomodation.

As for dissin' calls and playing hard to get, I don't play that game. So I can't tell you how that works. If I don't answer someone's call, it is simply because I have nothing to say. Not because I am playing a game. I never had time to play games with women. These times I'd rather used meeting new ones. All I can tell you is that most, if not all of the women I've met and have known knew from the get go what my intentions are and what they can expect from me. Just like the women in Russia. Every single one of them, including those those I decided against meeting prior to the trip knew they will be, and would've been, one of many women I planned on meeting. I still have that cell phone I used in Moscow that still have the text messages I was getting from the gals and some of them is just plain funny.

There was one woman in Moscow who was furious with me because she said she kept calling me but my number wasn't working. Apparently when I emailed her my number once I got my service, I inadvertently mixed the order of the last 3 numbers up. Man, LOL, reading her email full of CAPS and exclamation points (must be at least 30 on a 4 sentence email) it was obvious she wasn't too elated for not being able to get a hold of me while I was in her town. She definitely ingested some heavy AW bitch water, man. I had to chuckle trying to get a visual of her while she was writing that message. LOL. Long after that trip, she was scheduled to NY on a business trip and had dropped me an email asking if I'll entertain hosting her for a weekend in LA. Tempting as it was, I was already locked exclusively with my wife. So I had nothing to say to her so I didn't reply.

So I don't subscribe to the notion women will not meet any man who was planning to see other women. I believe that depends on the man. It has nothing to do with looks, money, etc...as I am the ugliest, poorest humanoid aside from Quasimodo that ever tolled the bells of Notre Dame and laid eyes upon some Russian blues - so I am certain that most of you boyz have an advantage over me and yet I will still say I don't subscribe there's a different set of rules dating in Russia as they do anywhere else. These sisters may speak different languages but they send out the exact same signals.

Cold meeting on the street and getting their phone numbers? Twice in Moscow my first trip, 4 times in St Pete. and I not only cannot speak Russian, I looked like a lost long-haired Uzbek looking for hard physical work. So compared myself to a whole lot of you, you boyz ought to be on Easy Street...

So the point on this post, it's tough enough for many men to have to date across the globe. It becomes even more difficult making them believe somehow they need to be aware Russian women are another breed of females all together. They're not IMO.

So be honest with them, with your intention, and stay within yourself and who you are. Dating is, and always be far easier that way. Find your balance.

******

Average age of women at first marriage - per country US = 25. Russia = 27.5 

[OlgaH]

... but it is still not the case.

Yes, it will take probably a long time it is not easy to change mentality...

it is generally because the women wanted to get married.

Not exactly. It is because she "zaletela" (got pregnant by unlucky chance) as we say in Russia, but many women still use this tactic to marry a guy they like.  (or better to say to put the harness on him). Very often happens in Russia. But it doesn't mean that all that women marriage minded  

The women that you refer...

Actually I refereed to women in their 20s (mid or late)  who place their photos taken in playboy style  to lure the men. Do you really think they are marriage minded?

[Daveman]

GQ, well aside from our Trinkets of Affection debate, we have a hell of a lot in common in our approach to women (at least meeting on the street).

The only thing I'd really add to that is that, personally, I absolutely do not care what anyone (female OR male) thinks about me... that's actually amazingly liberating to be exactly one's self in any situation whether in the world, on a bass boat, the workplace, posting on a forum, or 'dating'.  I think women have a sixth sense to determine whether someone is being real (though they too can rationalize away that intuition and wind up chasing a player).  

I wouldn't call it confidence really, or cockiness, or any of the catch words.. but just being absolutely true to myself in every situation regardless of whether it in the workplace or with a woman.

Not caring about the opinions of others and focusing more on what you think about them really does open many doors of opportunity that would probably not otherwise exist.

Of course not all women are attracted to me, not all people like me...some think I'm a silly idiot, others follow me around just to see what in god's name I'll do or say next, others are repulsed... and then some are majorly attracted... and when that does happen, it's very cool because whoever it is (friend, woman, whomever) is attracted to my very nature and being.  The essence of the god that I am.   :evil:

Generating attraction as discussed in this thread is 50% art and 50% science.  It's cool and all, but there are a hell of a lot of women (or people in general) that I really don't want to attract (even if they're HOT).  Being completely true to yourself kinda weeds many of those out automatically. Cool deal, less work and less thought.

It works for me.  Probably wouldn't work for you mere mortals...  :evil:  :evil:

[Misha]

Actually I refereed to women in their 20s (mid or late)  who place their photos taken in playboy style  to lure the men. Do you really think they are marriage minded?

Olga, it is clear that you have not searched for women on the mamba network or dated many women from the mamba dating site in their twenties  In my past experience, based on my active search before meeting my wife, most women on mamba.ru do not use "photos taken in playboy style" to lure men. They use photos that they take that they like: photos taken in everyday life when they are nicely dressed. Photos much like the photos you use as your profile photo in this site and others. In other words, most of the women on mamba are run of the mill women looking for love. Yes, they are exceptions, but in my experience they are not the rule.

[OlgaH]

In my past experience, based on my active search before meeting my wife, most women on mamba.ru do not use "photos taken in playboy style" to lure men.

Yes, it is on mambar.ru and in their profiles they say clearly what they want (usually sponsor and sex for money) In my previous post I was talking about dating agencies, you know "Russian marriage minded women"     

[Misha]

Yes, it is on mambar.ru and in their profiles they say clearly what they want (usually sponsor and sex for money) In my previous post I was talking about dating agencies, you know "Russian marriage minded women"     

Olga, in all my posts, I have only referred to mamba.ru and only mamba.ru. I will not comment on the dating agencies, as I never used them. Also, TBB was using the mamba network, and only mamba, to find his dates.

[GQBlues]

GQ, well aside from our Trinkets of Affection debate, we have a hell of a lot in common in our approach to women (at least meeting on the street).

The only thing I'd really add to that is that, personally, I absolutely do not care what anyone (female OR male) thinks about me... that's actually amazingly liberating to be exactly one's self in any situation whether in the world, on a bass boat, the workplace, posting on a forum, or 'dating'.  I think women have a sixth sense to determine whether someone is being real (though they too can rationalize away that intuition and wind up chasing a player).  

A-hah!, so you were a slut too, eh!    

But no, seriously though...being true with many of these women really does wonders. I will never forget an exchange I had with a stupidly beautiful woman after one of my boys tried to stab me in the back. Out of jealousy perhaps, I don't know...

So I met this gal and things were pretty cozy and was about to head out and deal. When I went to close my tab at the bar, apparently one of my boys told the gal what will be all I'm interested with her about...so as she was driving to her place, she said to me that I should maybe try to choose my friends a little more carefully. When I ask her why she said that, she said.....

" Greg warned me that all you'll want from me is sex and that I should stay away from you because he felt I was too nice a girl just to be treated like that!.."

I didn't say anything. Silence. Then she looked at me, I glanced back to her sheepishly, then we both busted up laughing...

She said..."LOL. For a minute there, I was concerned you might want something more than that!".

You know, I wish some of my boys will just clean up their acts and realize hazy images in the mirror are definitely closer than they appear. You know what I mean?

[Boethius]

A-hah!, so you were a slut too, eh!    

But no, seriously though...being true with many of these women really does wonders. I will never forget an exchange I had with a stupidly beautiful woman after one of my boys tried to stab me in the back. Out of jealousy perhaps, I don't know...

So I met this gal and things were pretty cozy and was about to head out and deal. When I went to close my tab at the bar, apparently one of my boys told the gal what will be all I'm interested with her about...so as she was driving to her place, she said to me that I should maybe try to choose my friends a little more carefully. When I ask her why she said that, she said.....

" Greg warned me that all you'll want from me is sex and that I should stay away from you because he felt I was too nice a girl just to be treated like that!.."

I didn't say anything. Silence. Then she looked at me, I glanced back to her sheepishly, then we both busted up laughing...

She said..."LOL. For a minute there, I was concerned you might want something more than that!".

You know, I wish some of my boys will just clean up their acts and realize hazy images in the mirror are definitely closer than they appear. You know what I mean?

Reading your posts over the course of a year, I believe you are a man who actually likes women, who enjoys their company.  You're comfortable and natural around them.  You're comfortable in your own skin.  That's why you don't need to resort to "game" or "PUA", or any other theories of dating/mating, etc., and why you were always successful with women.  Women sense this.

[OlgaH]

Olga, in all my posts, I have only referred to mamba.ru and only mamba.ru. I will not comment on the dating agencies, as I never used them. Also, TBB was using the mamba network, and only mamba, to find his dates.

Misha, Ok I understand.

what I noticed that mamba women who honestly say in their profiles that they look for a sponsor, sex for money or just one-night stand without sponsoring don't use too provocative photos as some "marriage minded women" on the website of dating agencies. And not all women who want to marry are really "marriage minded"   

[Boethius]

Compare this to North America:

1. Though some women may marry early, many women still consider 25 or 26 "too young to marry" and their biological clocks don't start ticking until their mid-thirties and many women will wait until they are close to 40 to have a child
2. It is rare that I will see an educated woman who has a child in her early twenties. Very rare to see young couples with children at university;
3. Women, though it could be argued they face some forms of systemic discrimination, do not face the overt in your face discrimination that many women will face in Russia and other countries in the FSU.


Given these factors, IMHO, this changes the dating dynamic quite radically in the FSU. A woman in her late 20s or early 30s in Canada who is attractive will be able to get lots of dates and she will often believe that she has plenty of time to get married and have children. She is in my experience much pickier as to whom she will date and she won't be in any rush to commit to any guy. This was the exact opposite of what I found in Russia.

All theory.  As GQ pointed out, the age of first marriage in the US is lower than in Russia.  It is slightly higher in Canada (28 vs 27).   There's about a 2 year age gap in the average age for the birth of a first child between Russia and the US, 8 years in Canada.

North American women are just as concerned if they don't have a man in their mid twenties as Russian women.  They may not be in as big a rush to marry, but they definitely want a man.  I think the difference is in older women - women in their mid forties and beyond.  Very often, North American women, particularly women with good jobs, who have raised children, don't have a need for a husband at that age.  Companionship and sex, yes.  A "permanent man", no.

[Misha]

North American women are just as concerned if they don't have a man in their mid twenties as Russian women.  They may not be in as big a rush to marry, but they definitely want a man.

Class plays a role. Generally, educated women in Canada tend to postpone both marriage and childbirth (though of course there are always exceptions). In Russia, there is still a tendency for women who want a university education, to still get married much earlier than what I have seen in Canada.

[Misha]

Misha, Ok I understand.

what I noticed that mamba women who honestly say in their profiles that they look for a sponsor, sex for money or just one-night stand without sponsoring don't use too provocative photos as some "marriage minded women" on the website of dating agencies. And not all women who want to marry are really "marriage minded"    

Olga, I am confused. What are these "dating agencies" that you refer to in your post? Can you give me an example of what you mean. Also, in your last statement "And not all women who want to marry are really 'marriage minded'," I don't understand whether you are referring to women on the "dating agencies" or the women looking to date for marriage on mamba ??? I don't really know what is the point you are trying to make.

[OlgaH]

Misha, I was talking about marriage agencies that offer Russian marriage minded women to Westerners.

My point is that not all women who want to marry are marriage minded and family oriented as you think, some of them have another reason for marriage and it doesn't matter if they are from agencies or dating websites or just from the street. 

[TwoBitBandit]

I can't recall anyone suggesting to do something as idiotic as "lavishing these women with gifts". I think I mentioned giving some flowers (because he sounded like he was really into her, and she was, at least at first really into him -- she sent major signals, then turned colder after being, from her perspective, spurned), and Brad suggested flowers and a CD..  did I miss something else in the thread?   

Of course, my poem up thread is a major woman winner on any continent.. anyone, feel free to use it verbatim with only a minor royalty paid in fresh borshch and/or homemade pelmeni...  :evil:

My opinion and experience with gifts is this: if the girl is into you and you’ve already got her very attracted, then gifts can make her heart melt.  The time to give gifts is when you have control of the frame.  If you give a gift before you have her really attracted, then it can come across as try-hard and needy.  Gifts must come from and appear to be from the frame, “I’m glad we spend time together and I want you to have this.”  As soon as a gift comes from or appears to come from the frame “I’m trying to suck up to you and buy your affection,” you’re done.  You must get the girl attracted to you first.  If I had given a gift to Anna it probably would have come across like that, so I didn’t.

My point runs completely counter to what all of the folks here are suggesting. My point is directly based on my experiences meeting and dealing with these Russian women, mostly from Moscow - age range: 22 - 33 (final line-up). My experience told me dating these women was NO different than dating the women back home or anywhere else for that matter. This is what befuddles me when folks keep suggesting to men how they need to date these girls differently. For the curious mind, the women I met and went out with, with the exception of one (a student), every single one of them have money, or well-established profession, or came from a well-stocked household. All have travelled to either WE or USA. One lived and studied in NY for 7 years. Thus, I can go point for point to clearly clarify why most of the general 'advice' in dating these women ran counter to what I have done and believe. But this is your thread, so I'll refrain.

If I had to base my experience dating these women, the suggestion that somehow there's a different set of rules in dating these women is completely bogus for me. IMO, women react to the same stimuli the world over.

I think that you’re generally correct but there really are some cultural differences.  The influence of feminism in the west has led women to believe they can slut it up until they’re in their early thirties and then marry the guy of their dreams.  Many of them spend their twenties sleeping with alpha men that will bed them but not commit to them.  The cost of making bad choices is small because the legal and tax systems are biased in favor of transferring wealth from productive men to single mothers, and thirtysomething men will still consider them viable mates in their early and mid thirities.

In Russia this simply isn’t the case: the cost for picking the wrong man is huge.  The life of a single mother is hell, and the state doesn’t do much of anything to help them.  So, there’s an incentive for women to go for a stable provider-type rather than a player, a thug, or an alpha guy who’s simply out of their league.

I’ve met lots of Russian girls, and I can say for sure that the “I’m a stable guy with a career” sale works far better on Russian girls than American girls.  The only girls in Silicon Valley that the “I’m a stable guy with a career” sale works on are girls in their thirties who are facing The Wall.

Which brings me to you. On one hand you seem to suggest how easy it has been for you to game US women. But in your TR (and I'm not trying to get on your case), you detailed your dating behavior along the way as though you're a typical AM having to go to Russia because no one else will date him at home. Frankly, IMO, it's relatively harder to date US women than Russian women. In more ways than one, even guys living and dating in Russia professes to that fact. So I'm not so sure 'why' you got into a pickle second-guessing yourself with girls like 'Anna'. You went out with her 4 times, yet somehow you couldn't reach first base let alone close a deal. Something was happening there, or better said, wasn't happening there.
 
All I'm saying here is, there's an obvious disconnect (at least to me) in what you told us that you can do back home and how things seem to play out for you in Novo (Russia). Why the disconnect? I don't know. Maybe you can share this in depth with us? I am not getting down on you. I've always known you to have what it takes to get you where you want to be. This is largely why I'm a bit surprised to read some of your entries.

Part of the disconnect is that Anna is a hotter girl than I normally date in the states.  Don’t get me wrong: I’m not banging fatties here.  Most of the girls I get involved with here are in-shape career girls with some fashion sense that are around sevens: they’re cute but not hot.  As I’ve gotten better with women I’ve dated hotter girls but I don’t hold onto them very long.

A lot of the girls from this trip that are of similar or slightly higher caliber that I’d date at home were totally into me.  Many of them sent me several emails or SMS messages before getting the message.  Lena, Elena, Anastassia and Olesia all tried to contact me multiple times before getting the message that I’d lost interest.  These types of girls are tolerant of dating errors.

Most of the weirdness in this trip report was specifically with Anna.  A lot of her actions seemed contradictory to me.  For instance, whenever we walked on the street she’s grab my arm or hand: she’d always initiate the action.  Every time she’d do this.  She’d often touch me or pull that white tree-fluff off my shirt.  Yet, she wouldn’t kiss me.  It was almost like some kind of shіt-test that I couldn’t pass.  I could tell I was being played with a little bit, and if I didn’t change the context I was on my way out…
which is why I pulled the plug and told her I’d start writing her.

Did not catch the Greece and Turkey and changes my opinion as she probably told TBB who she was going to be with.  TBB, if you have a hard time understanding Russian you might do better in the future finding women who speak English or use a translator. 

Kievstar, my problem wasn’t language comprehension, I did fine with that.  She specifically said she was going alone.  That’s clear to me because we had a long conversation about how much fun traveling alone can be and how it gives you a chance to meet new people.  Now, I didn’t quiz her on her definition of “alone.”  It could have been any of these:

1.  I booked my own air travel and hotel reservations
2.  I’m going on a tour, but I’m “alone” in the sense I don’t know anyone else on the tour
3.  I’m traveling there “alone,” but once I get there I’m meeting Pierre from France (who incidentally is picking up all the expenses).

That's just it. I never had any pre-conceived, pre-planned, pre-structured disposition, tactics, etc...with any of the women I socially ran across with before. I never subscribed, read, researched, learned any dating 101 tips from anyone or anywhere. I would think that simply confine your instincts and would likely shape you into something you're not instinctively equipped and capable to carry on through. My hormones were enough to drive my education and motivation.  […] So be honest with them, with your intention, and stay within yourself and who you are. Dating is, and always be far easier that way. Find your balance.

Well, grats, you’re a natural.  In the same way I was a natural in math and aced calculus as a high-school sophomore, you’re a natural with women.  I wasn’t a natural with women at all: the only way I got better was to date boatloads of women and figure out my mistakes by trial and error.

If the ‘yourself’ you are is able to catch women you’re happy with, then great.  If not, then you need to transform the ‘yourself’ into a better ‘yourself,” in which case “be yourself” isn’t helpful advice.

In general, the best advice I get in any field is from people who sucked at something and then got good at it.  I don’t think that Michael Jordan could teach me anything useful about being a good basketball player: he probably came out of the womb and sunk his first free-throw before he learned to walk.  The best dating advice I got came from guys I know who sucked with girls in high school and got much better, because they all made the same Classic Dating Mistakes.  I didn’t learn much from guys who had ten belt notches at age fifteen: they’d just say things like “be confident.”

So I don't subscribe to the notion women will not meet any man who was planning to see other women. I believe that depends on the man. It has nothing to do with looks, money, etc...as I am the ugliest, poorest humanoid aside from Quasimodo that ever tolled the bells of Notre Dame and laid eyes upon some Russian blues - so I am certain that most of you boyz have an advantage over me and yet I will still say I don't subscribe there's a different set of rules dating in Russia as they do anywhere else. These sisters may speak different languages but they send out the exact same signals.

I agree with you on this topic, even though a significant fraction of other posters don’t.  All of the girls I dated on this trip knew or should have known there were other girls.  Some of the posters here suggest that if I’d dropped all my other dates immediately for Anna when she called that it would have worked out differently, but somehow I think it wouldn’t have.

[Misha]

Misha, I was talking about marriage agencies that offer Russian marriage minded women to Westerners.

Again, I am not talking about these agencies.

My point is that not all women who want to marry are marriage minded and family oriented as you think, some of them have another reason for marriage and it doesn't matter if they are from agencies or dating websites or just from the street. 

My experience is different. All the young women that I met over the last 15 years in Russia were interested in getting married. I never met a young woman who did not want to get married, and most of the women that I knew were married in their twenties.

Here is the latest data that I could find on Russia: in 1996, the average age of a first marriage for a woman in Russia was 22.2 years. This average age of a first marriage for women has been consistently at around the 22 year mark since 1980. (source: http://demoscope.ru/weekly/knigi/ns_r00/razdel2g2_3.html).

In the Ukraine, based on an article published this year, the average age for a woman to be married has gone up slightly to 23.5 years. I doubt Russia is much different. However, the article highlights that many children are being born out of wedlock (roughly 1 in 5) which might explain in part why the average age of marriage went up (young women simply having a baby without being married). (Source: http://glavred.info/archive/2010/05/28/125022-10.html).

Now, compare this to the average age for a first marriage in Canada: 28.5. This means that the average woman in Russia gets married at least 5 years earlier than the average woman in Russia, possibly even 6 years earlier. Our hypothetical 26 year old unmarried woman in Canada is still younger than the average age of marriage in Canada (therefore will feel no rush to be married) whereas the same 26 year old unmarried woman in Russia will be older than the average and therefore will feel greater pressure to be married.

[brad5959]

TwoBitBandit said:
I agree with you on this topic, even though a significant fraction of other posters don’t.  All of the girls I dated on this trip knew or should have known there were other girls.  Some of the posters here suggest that if I’d dropped all my other dates immediately for Anna when she called that it would have worked out differently, but somehow I think it wouldn’t have.

[/quote]

Brad said:
regarding Anna, you will never know for sure because you were not willing to take a chance with her.  maybe if you keep writing to her you will have that opportunity again in the future.

[brad5959]

That's just it. I never had any pre-conceived, pre-planned, pre-structured disposition, tactics, etc...with any of the women I socially ran across with before. I never subscribed, read, researched, learned any dating 101 tips from anyone or anywhere. I would think that simply confine your instincts and would likely shape you into something you're not instinctively equipped and capable to carry on through. My hormones were enough to drive my education and motivation.

I never had any pre-constructed line at any one time I walked up to a woman. Never once. My friends used to ask and wonder what I tell these women. I never knew what to tell them because I never bothered with lines. Almost to the very last nano-second do the words come rushing out of me and seem to always get her locked on. This is why I believe it is even far easier when there's more than just one woman. Especially if they're all gorgeous. What is it I end up saying? I can't tell you cause I do not know. I see someone I like, I walk to her and lock her on. That is part of the reason why I do not like 'wingmen'. I don't like to travel in a pack. Going solo is the only way to go, you travel light so you can be very flexible on up to your ensuing sleeping accomodation.

As for dissin' calls and playing hard to get, I don't play that game. So I can't tell you how that works. If I don't answer someone's call, it is simply because I have nothing to say. Not because I am playing a game. I never had time to play games with women. These times I'd rather used meeting new ones. All I can tell you is that most, if not all of the women I've met and have known knew from the get go what my intentions are and what they can expect from me. Just like the women in Russia. Every single one of them, including those those I decided against meeting prior to the trip knew they will be, and would've been, one of many women I planned on meeting. I still have that cell phone I used in Moscow that still have the text messages I was getting from the gals and some of them is just plain funny.

There was one woman in Moscow who was furious with me because she said she kept calling me but my number wasn't working. Apparently when I emailed her my number once I got my service, I inadvertently mixed the order of the last 3 numbers up. Man, LOL, reading her email full of CAPS and exclamation points (must be at least 30 on a 4 sentence email) it was obvious she wasn't too elated for not being able to get a hold of me while I was in her town. She definitely ingested some heavy AW bitch water, man. I had to chuckle trying to get a visual of her while she was writing that message. LOL. Long after that trip, she was scheduled to NY on a business trip and had dropped me an email asking if I'll entertain hosting her for a weekend in LA. Tempting as it was, I was already locked exclusively with my wife. So I had nothing to say to her so I didn't reply.

So I don't subscribe to the notion women will not meet any man who was planning to see other women. I believe that depends on the man. It has nothing to do with looks, money, etc...as I am the ugliest, poorest humanoid aside from Quasimodo that ever tolled the bells of Notre Dame and laid eyes upon some Russian blues - so I am certain that most of you boyz have an advantage over me and yet I will still say I don't subscribe there's a different set of rules dating in Russia as they do anywhere else. These sisters may speak different languages but they send out the exact same signals.

Cold meeting on the street and getting their phone numbers? Twice in Moscow my first trip, 4 times in St Pete. and I not only cannot speak Russian, I looked like a lost long-haired Uzbek looking for hard physical work. So compared myself to a whole lot of you, you boyz ought to be on Easy Street...

So the point on this post, it's tough enough for many men to have to date across the globe. It becomes even more difficult making them believe somehow they need to be aware Russian women are another breed of females all together. They're not IMO.

So be honest with them, with your intention, and stay within yourself and who you are. Dating is, and always be far easier that way. Find your balance.

******

Average age of women at first marriage - per country US = 25. Russia = 27.5 

You are a supernatural, and unconcious concious.  you claim to be ugly, but be honest are you big and rugged like a rugby player??  women are attracted to that, and your natural ease around women seals the deal.

[OlgaH]

Again, I am not talking about these agencies.

Misha, I just was talking about it as an example

My experience is different. All the young women that I met over the last 15 years in Russia were interested in getting married.

Misha you can talk about your experience as much as your want but from my observation I can tell that not all women who are interested in getting married are marriage minded. Do I need to explain the reasons why some women are interested in getting married?

BTW do you know that some women producing babies more than they need do it not because of their love to children?  

[Daveman]

My opinion and experience with gifts is this: if the girl is into you and you’ve already got her very attracted, then gifts can make her heart melt.  The time to give gifts is when you have control of the frame.  If you give a gift before you have her really attracted, then it can come across as try-hard and needy.  Gifts must come from and appear to be from the frame, “I’m glad we spend time together and I want you to have this.”  As soon as a gift comes from or appears to come from the frame “I’m trying to suck up to you and buy your affection,” you’re done.  You must get the girl attracted to you first.  If I had given a gift to Anna it probably would have come across like that, so I didn’t.

I see your point TBB, and I agree with the thoughts about "sucking up"... but, from what you wrote.. Anna was attracted to you.. very much when she called you, and still so after by her continuing to go out with you... I think she was waiting for you to make her feel special.. to feel something... a signal from you that she's more than just a girl in Novo you're meeting to pass the time for a few hours today before moving on.  Attraction gets you in the door (so to speak), but affection comes from a "feeling".  As I said earlier in the thread, you have to make/let a woman "feel" something before she's going to move in that direction (and sometimes it can be doing something a little special and then going away so she has time to think/dream/feel/miss you... which she did after the first date.. which caused her to contact you.. but you stifled her dreamy feeling and she became more distant).  I really don't think it had anything to do with her wanting to or trying to control the frame... you just needed to reach out and touch her soul.


But the women who are attracted to me tend to be the dreamy romantics I guess.

[Misha]

Misha you can talk about your experience as much as your want but from my observation I can tell that not all women who are interested in getting married are marriage minded.

Olga, let's agree to disagree. Again, the stats are clear that on average women get married at a younger age in Russia/Ukraine than Canada/United States. Yes, not all women necessarily want to marry any man in Russia, but it has been my experience that given a suitable candidate, most women in their twenties in Russia will seriously consider marriage. That was my experience. If your experience is different, then I will not argue with you.

[OlgaH]

Misha, let me ask you again do you understand that there are other reasons why some women want to marry? No need to talk about stats (especially 10 y.o.)  because stats don't mention the reasons.