Ukraine,PMZ (exit) stamps and property ownership

[philb]

I have read on other boards in the past about the PMZ stamp requirement when a Ukrainian citizen "permanently" leaves the country and have never gotten a clear answer.  In fact, it doesn't even seem possible to get a clear answer from the Ukrainian government in regards to this topic (big suprise).

I am just wondering what other's experiences are.  Did you get the stamp?  If so, were there any issues with property?  If you didn't get the stamp were there any issues with leaving the country on return trips?

Right now we are leaning towards skipping the stamp because of the question of property ownership.

Other than this things are proceeding fairly smoothly.  Our church wedding is scheduled for the 19th of February and the civil ceremony for the 21st.  Reception at the Kiev Hotel immediately following the religious ceremony.  RSVP 

The Cubans are being a bit of a pain in the a$$.  Alla, lived there for a few years and they are a little slow on producing the required police report.  We still have plenty of time on this since it is not required until she goes in for her interview.

[Admin]

I have read on other boards in the past about the PMZ stamp requirement when a Ukrainian citizen "permanently" leaves the country and have never gotten a clear answer.  In fact, it doesn't even seem possible to get a clear answer from the Ukrainian government in regards to this topic (big suprise).

I am just wondering what other's experiences are.  Did you get the stamp?  If so, were there any issues with property?  If you didn't get the stamp were there any issues with leaving the country on return trips?

Right now we are leaning towards skipping the stamp because of the question of property ownership.

Other than this things are proceeding fairly smoothly.  Our church wedding is scheduled for the 19th of February and the civil ceremony for the 21st.  Reception at the Kiev Hotel immediately following the religious ceremony.  RSVP 

The Cubans are being a bit of a pain in the a$$.  Alla, lived there for a few years and they are a little slow on producing the required police report.  We still have plenty of time on this since it is not required until she goes in for her interview.

Phil,

I have not heard of anyone experiencing problems with the lack of the PMZh stamp for maybe 2 or 3 years. The question of property ownership/residency remains - BUT, since foreign ownership of apartments is clearly permitted, I think it is only a concern if you own actual real property with land such as a dacha - especially if there is someone whom she can assign propiska in her absence (father, mother, sibling, etc.)

There *are* some pages in the Ukrainian Embassy (to the US) website - but it is all in Ukrainian (NOT Russian) and we have not bothered with worrying about it for some time.

Glad to hear things are going well - the police report notwithstanding. I'll bet that will cause the US authorities some pause - to see a Cuban-issued police report.

Best wishes for a wonderful wedding - and your bride's easy transition to life in the US.

You guys doing the DCF in Ukraine?

- Dan

[philb]

Yep, DCF in Ukraine with her planned arrival date in the US at the beginning of July.

The funny thing is the Cuban police report is basically a formality.  The US government has already done their own background check on her because of her job.  In fact, I would imagine that the background check is far more extensive than a routine police report.

Everytime she inquires about this report at the Cuban Embassy they start asking her questions related to her work.  She politely declines to answer and they continue to drag their feet.

And... thanks for the well wishes.  I think Alla will not only adapt here but will actually thrive.  She is a remarkable woman.  We will have to drop down to Denver sometime.


 

[ielocal]

philb,

My fiancee looked into the PMZ before leaving the Ukraine. The hoops she would have to go through was unreal. I don't have my notes anymore...posted them on "the other board" so I guess they are lost forever. But, this is some what they required.

Original Police Report, Certified letter from mother & father granting "permission" to leave (although she is 35 and her father lives in Russia) , and she would have to visit several different agencies to get letters for them (verifying no money owed anywhere). She would also have to give them her passport for a while they are processing the paperwork.

We left through KBP (Nov. 2005) without the stamp and there was no questions to her at all about this. One of the options that was noted on the other board to avoid this issue if it is a concern is to leave through Russia or another FSU country. This way she can travel on her "domestic passport" to the other country and just use her "international passport" to leave that country...of course Russia doesn't care about the Ukrainian PMZ. Also I should add that on the other board only one person (IIRC) even mentioned a question about it while leaving through KBP.

-ielocal

[Admin]

philb,

My fiancee looked into the PMZ before leaving the Ukraine. The hoops she would have to go through was unreal. I don't have my notes anymore...posted them on "the other board" so I guess they are lost forever. But, this is some what they required.

Original Police Report, Certified letter from mother & father granting "permission" to leave (although she is 35 and her father lives in Russia) , and she would have to visit several different agencies to get letters for them (verifying no money owed anywhere). She would also have to give them her passport for a while they are processing the paperwork.

We left through KBP (Nov. 2005) without the stamp and there was no questions to her at all about this. One of the options that was noted on the other board to avoid this issue if it is a concern is to leave through Russia or another FSU country. This way she can travel on her "domestic passport" to the other country and just use her "international passport" to leave that country...of course Russia doesn't care about the Ukrainian PMZ. Also I should add that on the other board onlyone person (IIRC)even mentioned a question about it while leaving through KBP.

-ielocal

The "other board" was providing sound advice. It seems that, when people *were* having problems, it was when they departed from airports other than Boryspil. I know of several accounts of problems from Odesa, a couple from Lviv, and IIRC even one from Dniepropetrovsk.

FWIW

- Dan

[ielocal]

Dan,

I hadn't seen any mention of this issue at other airports. But admittedly, I do not nor have not frequented as many boards as many others here. Since my reservations were through Boryspil, I didn't look into information from the other airports. That is part of why I noted that there was only the one poster going through KBP that had the issue. My main intention in my post was the information about the documents that I remembered my fiancee requiring.

But, for reasons of clarity, do you know (or have you heard) if using the "domestic passport" to first travel to another FSU country has worked? For me, I was leaving this as a future option for my fiancee as flying from LAX through Moscow is about the same cost as going the other way.

-ielocal

[Charles]

I agree there is no straight answer on this, and if you look at the forms you have to fill out to get the stamp, the cure is probably worse than the disease.  So we opted not to get the stamp.  Not having the stamp does not a problem regarding ownership of property.  My wife never got the stamp, and when her mother died after she obtained her green card she was able to transfer her mother's flat into her name.   A lot of hassle doing this in Ukraine, but it had nothing to do with the stamp.

I am not aware of this being a problem as far as entry or exit.  My wife exited at Borispol last October with no problems.

 

[Charles]

Yes, you can travel on the Ukrainian passport through another FSU country, such as Moscow, but based on recent experience it appears that this requirement is not being enforced, at least in Kiev.