New guy in need of direction

[fabiodriven]

Soon, terms like "Grampa" and "old ass" began to take flight...  the older and more experienced among us fully realize we
are incapable of saving the world ~ but we can try to guide a new fellow ~ IF he's capable of saving himself...

I never would have fired in that direction had I not received shots from there. I don't care if the original poster is 18 or 80.

[ECOCKS]

Well, the assumption of questionable advice via PM may have come from this decree...

Quote from: fabiodriven on July 09, 2010, 11:48:46 AM
I don't know what your problem is Faux Pas, but I will say this. I have received numerous PM's from members of this forum telling me to ignore the riff-raff. You, my friend, are the riff raff.

Return to Vaughn:
Soon, terms like "Grampa" and "old ass" began to take flight...  the older and more experienced among us fully realize we are incapable of saving the world ~ but we can try to guide a new fellow ~ IF he's capable of saving himself...

And therein lies the crux of the problem with forums. Privacy has it's place. If a poster gets a PM, reads it and wonders as to its objectivity or integrity, they are certainly able to followup with questions to the sender, float the concept around the forum for consideration or (hold for this thought) inquire VIA PM to whomever they deem knowledgeable or credible as to whether they agree. This occurs publicly or privately as THEY desire.

The advice I offer may or may not be correct but is most definitely honest and well-intentioned. I go out of my way to make it extremely clear what I believe, why I believe it and offer suggestions on how they can validate it or not. Almost all of mine caution the receiver to read through posts and get a sense of the validity and character of those offering advice.

Short of turning off PM capability, how would you propose proving these blanket assumptions of false info and backbiting? PM censorship? Remove the restriction in ToS regarding posting PM's publicly? Does no one have the right to offer their advice selectively after being insulted publicly and deciding that "the riffraff" are perhaps out-of-control?

[Vaughn]

I never would have fired in that direction had I not received shots from there. I don't care if the original poster is 18 or 80.

Fair enough. Lemme assure you, though, that nothing I've ever read here was as hard to swallow as
the brutal honesty of the FSU woman....    completely sugar-free.

BTW, fabio, how is that Skype thing going? It wasn't around much when I made my first journey.

[fabiodriven]

BTW, fabio, how is that Skype thing going? It wasn't around much when I made my first journey.

Still working on it. For whatever reason the sound on my laptop took a leave of absence last week and I have been trying to hook up with my buddy so he can fix it. He should be fixing it tonight.

[Faux Pas]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but how do you know?

The only posters that have come forward indicating that they give advice in PMs are Dave13 and Ed. I have much respect for both of these guys and I'd listen to their advice over a lot that gets posted in public.

Iron clad how do I know is, what was passed on to me in PM early on and what what eventually floats up in various threads from time to time. I've had new guys PM me and ask about advice given to them in PM. Much was very difficult to even consider much less believe.

I respect both Ed and Dave as well and would likely take to heart anything they said. I am not saying or even implying that "all advice" from PM is just plain wrong. I am however saying, if advice is not good enough, or believed to be too good enough to post in the open forum for all to see, likely it won't hold up to public scrutiny. There is probably a reason for that.

 

[Shadow]

And therein lies the crux of the problem with forums. Privacy has it's place. If a poster gets a PM, reads it and wonders as to its objectivity or integrity, they are certainly able to followup with questions to the sender, float the concept around the forum for consideration or (hold for this thought) inquire VIA PM to whomever they deem knowledgeable or credible as to whether they agree. This occurs publicly or privately as THEY desire.

And there lies the exact danger. I do not doubt that you give the best advise and opinion you can, and I think that on many subject you will be able to give sound advise.
But when the term riff-raff is used in PM's that almost certain indicates that some mebers try to discredit others and gossip regarding their status and opinions.
As a result instead of seeing a discussion regarding ideas and advise and the member making his own decisions, a culture is born where ideas and advise are no longer discussed for their merit, but pushed on as the ultimate truth.

I do think that it might be beneficial for some members to have private mentoring from members with knowledge, experience and integrity. However I do feel that is not the scope of RussianWomenDiscussion.

[Turboguy]

My wife has been watching some documentaries lately.  One we watched involved "rites of passage" around the world where different cultures put men entering adulthood through some strenuous tests that may involve pain or endurance.

Sometimes I think RWD is much the same.  Instead of allowing for the fact that Newbies may have a lot to learn and and trying to just offer advice, information and support we need to insult them a little to judge if we think they are up to the challenges we face in persuing what can be a difficult quest.

Personally I think things are better discussed openly where all can participate and where other newbies can access what is often good information.  I do think some of us can be a little hard on some people some times and can see where when someone feels one of us was a little over the top that rather than stir the pot they go with pm's  I don't think there is any way of avoiding that except to make allowances for the fact that newbies don't have all the answers and that is what brought them here.  

I really don't think we offer advice.  Personally I think we state or opinions and make suggestions.  Most are going to do what they are going to do regardless of how stupid or smart their ideas are.  

[ECOCKS]

How about a mod going through and splitting off the posts related to posting advice/opinions/comment on the forum versus PM?

[BC]

My wife has been watching some documentaries lately.  One we watched involved "rites of passage" around the world where different cultures put men entering adulthood through some strenuous tests that may involve pain or endurance.

Sometimes I think RWD is much the same.  Instead of allowing for the fact that Newbies may have a lot to learn and and trying to just offer advice, information and support we need to insult them a little to judge if we think they are up to the challenges we face in persuing what can be a difficult quest.

Sure there is a 'right of passage' here and anywhere else in the world you go, even to the bar down the street.  It's quite normal.

Here though, it all begins with being able to listen, even if you may not agree.  I believe Fabio has done that even though he ended up holding a barf bag.

But really, Fabio is an anonymous Internet presence.. and as such should not be taking anything at all said here personally.

I've been called all kinds of names here, so what.. I choose to let it be their problem, not mine.

Turbo, you also have been knocked around a bit here, any worse for the wear?

A simple 'Yeah, maybe I'll think about that' takes the edge right off just about any post regardless of content.

One thing even the toughest of the toughest here can't begin to guarantee is that of Fabio or anyone else having any success whatsoever, but they just might keep him from falling into the gutter if he has two ears and something of substance in between.

Fabio, just fill your notebook regardless where or how it comes about.

[BC]

How about a mod going through and splitting off the posts related to posting advice/opinions/comment on the forum versus PM?

Bound to happen after 6 pages or so when the thread has pretty much run it's course.  Fabio have any other specific items to discuss?

[Turboguy]

Turbo, you also have been knocked around a bit here, any worse for the wear?

I was?  I thought everyone always treated me with kid gloves!   No of course not but in my case everyone was just trying to save me from my own stupidity.   

[fabiodriven]

Bound to happen after 6 pages or so when the thread has pretty much run it's course.  Fabio have any other specific items to discuss?

Not at the moment. I'm still in the early stages here and a lot of this advice has helped me tremendously. I continue to watch this thread and pick up anything I can from it. I am talking to a very nice girl and have used the information from this forum to get me to where I am with here at this point. There are a lot of steps to be taken ahead of me and I'm sure more questions will arise once I get to the next hurdle. So far so good with her. It's much too soon to know if it truly will work or not, but we will find out.

[Daveman]

Not at the moment. I'm still in the early stages here and a lot of this advice has helped me tremendously. I continue to watch this thread and pick up anything I can from it. I am talking to a very nice girl and have used the information from this forum to get me to where I am with here at this point. There are a lot of steps to be taken ahead of me and I'm sure more questions will arise once I get to the next hurdle. So far so good with her. It's much too soon to know if it truly will work or not, but we will find out.

Yep, too early to tell. just remember, until you meet her face to face and begin developing the relationship in real life, you just have a happy pen pal/chat buddy.  Even if you *know* that she is the one for you, your soul mate, your princess, your goddess of divine oneness --- have a back up plan so you won't be stuck sitting alone wondering what to do if the meeting fizzles out within a few minute of the first face to face contact.  It has happened many times to many sure they had found "the One.  So, best to keep the emotions in check before you meet. 

Good luck!

[Turboguy]

Fabio,  If you do get some advice that you don't want to hear don't let it bother you.  Sometimes the guys here can get a little too direct in how they dispense advice but there is a lot of knowledge here and it can save you a lot of money, time and heartbreak and although not everyone is gentle in how they dispense advice most everyone has good intentions and you can learn a lot here.   There was a night and day difference in my knowledge level once I found this place.  

[ECOCKS]

Since only a couple of us appear willing to "fess up" to providing responses through non forum means, I was thinking about providing a sample (or two) of privately offered advice/comment/opinion so I went through my outbox and email and noticed that when I initiate contact via PM/email communication, my comments tend to be short and sweet.

A sample:

Hi there, my name's Ed. I lived in Kyiv for a few years, married a Ukrainian (3 years ago) and presently own an apartment there as well as one in a smaller city. I don't post here much due to the atmosphere of the board but am more than willing to answer any of your specific questions on the apartment situation if you are still trying to figure out what goes on regarding western owners.

Please feel free to Skype me or send me and email at ___________________. I'm also in chat here sometimes if you want to drop in and talk about specifics there.

On the other hand I realized that the ratio of my 2nd and 3rd responses are much longer and tend to reflect the wish of the person with the question to keep questions or concerns private.

This was one of 14 questions the guy asked for his situation.

She pointblank asked whether we would be having sex every day (her preference), what the heck?

** Yes, Ukrainian women have pretty healthy sexual appetites. Not promiscuous exactly but most regard energetic sex as part of a healthy lifestyle. She says “I prefer to do it every day” huh? Maybe it's me but that sounds sort of odd if she doesn't presently have someone she is dating. You gotta ask yourself if she is telling you what you want to hear or just really that blunt?

Also, sometimes they question the motives of others. Yes, I pretty much always caution about questioning the motives and attitude of some on here but not by name (unless specifically asked) and always with urgings to do their own research and get a feel for the attitude of the people offering the info, myself included.

What did I step into? [That guy] is saying that she's definitely just stringing me along for her share of what they charge as chat fees.

He's probably right if she is talking about love but insists you keep talking through the agency system. The women over there live close together and put up with all kinds of crap while riding the metro or in the workplace. I'd be very surprised if a girl honestly liked talking with a guy but refused to give him her cell phone number. My MIL lives on a $100 monthly pension and has a cell phone she carries everywhere so the family can contact her. So what do you figure the odds are on an attractive, employed woman not having one handy? I'd put her to the test and just state you are NOT going to communicate through their system anymore and have to call her cell or do Skype if she wants to develop your relationship. You aren't happy with the cost and in theory anything you save lets you get there sooner for a visit so why/how can she object?

Sometimes it's for their privacy, sometimes mine and sometimes just because posters get fed up with the BS (or drama as someone else put it) which comes out of differences of opinions.

And please, the topic is advice/commentary/opinion through non-forum posting (PM/Email/Skype), not the specific answers given with regard to questions or situations.

[Mike78]

Hello Fabio!

Don't do it, forget about this whole Russian thing. You're still young and as you said good looking and well off. Plenty of hot women in the US. I was (still sort of am) in a similar situation, 31 yo, 6 year failed relationship, frustrated, felt alone, etc. Just stay home and work on yourself, especially on your self esteem and how you relate to women. It is very true that it's quite a bit harder with women in the US (mainly due to American women being less attractive than their European counterparts and American men trying way harder than do men over there), but they're all just women, no matter where they live. Maybe look into some of the PUA stuff; I'm not a super-huge fan, but frankly it did help me in a similar situation. If you want to travel, just go there to have some fun, From my personal experience, I would vouch for EU rather than FSU - no visa (no visa for the girl if you want to invite her to US), much more western, plenty of touristy stuff to see and do as well. Just came from Czech rep./Slovakia and it was amazing, girls were all beautiful and sweet as honey.

Well, whatever you do, good luck pal

[GQBlues]

Hello Fabio!

Don't do it, forget about this whole Russian thing. You're still young and as you said good looking and well off. Plenty of hot women in the US. I was (still sort of am) in a similar situation, 31 yo, 6 year failed relationship, frustrated, felt alone, etc. Just stay home and work on yourself, especially on your self esteem and how you relate to women. It is very true that it's quite a bit harder with women in the US (mainly due to American women being less attractive than their European counterparts and American men trying way harder than do men over there), but they're all just women, no matter where they live. Maybe look into some of the PUA stuff; I'm not a super-huge fan, but frankly it did help me in a similar situation. If you want to travel, just go there to have some fun, From my personal experience, I would vouch for EU rather than FSU - no visa (no visa for the girl if you want to invite her to US), much more western, plenty of touristy stuff to see and do as well. Just came from Czech rep./Slovakia and it was amazing, girls were all beautiful and sweet as honey.

Well, whatever you do, good luck pal

..and 'one'!

[Gator]

Don't do it, forget about this whole Russian thing. You're still young and as you said good looking and well off. Plenty of hot women in the US. .......If you want to travel, just go there to have some fun, From my personal experience, I would vouch for EU rather than FSU - no visa (no visa for the girl if you want to invite her to US)......Just came from Czech rep./Slovakia and it was amazing, girls were all beautiful and sweet as honey.

Czech women are glorious.

An example of great advice, and not done by PM.  A trip to Eastern Europe would be easier than going to Russia and give you an idea about whether you want to venture even further East.

[Gator]

I feel left out.  In 2002 I received no special advice in PMs.

By the time I found RW forums I had already taken a 30-day self-guided trip and been irretrievably smitten by the RW spirit. 

JB, KenC, Leslie, Bean, etc. all communicated directly in threads I started.   

No one had to tell me that RW are sweet on the outside and tough survivors on the inside.  That I had already learned during my first trip.  Yet, what I had learned from that trip was just the tip of the iceberg of what I needed to know.

Sometimes the advice was not what I wanted to hear.  I did not debate it, and instead filed it away. 

Other opinions such as "RW are short on cash and long on pride" went over my head until I encountered the wrath of a RW whose pride I had injured by something she misinterpreted.   When this happened, fortunately I recalled another piece of advice that "RW are always right and men always wrong." So I did not argue with the RW whose pride I had hurt.  I did not insist that she had misinterpreted what I said.  Instead, I said something like, "Thank you for pointing this out.  Now I understand you better.   I will try to do better, and please point out anytime when I misunderstand Russian culture."

And then all the stuff about strong men (not a contradiction with "she is always correct, and I am always wrong").   The list goes on:   other women, past is past, roses (there is a reason why they are so expensive),  meeting the family, kids, toasting with vodka, shopping, foods, financial support, nightlife, banyas, trains, etc.

Yes, there is much to be learned.  Actually, one does not need to start a thread.  One merely needs to research the archives because 98% of the issues have already been discussed thrice.

[fabiodriven]

I would love to spend some time in Russia, or the Ukraine, or the Czech Republic, or whatever. Unfortunately I have a mortgage, and a job, etc etc. It seems as though I am limited to a few days at most.

[Lee08]

I would love to spend some time in Russia, or the Ukraine, or the Czech Republic, or whatever. Unfortunately I have a mortgage, and a job, etc etc. It seems as though I am limited to a few days at most.

Hello Fabio,
I don't spend much time reading this forum anymore; always busy with the wife and new baby, and just happened on here and read some of your thread.

If I can offer you one piece of advice don't even think of a relationship with a fsu woman unless you can spend a lot of time with her. I've read about so many train wrecks where a man only spent a couple of weeks with a woman and then brought her over on a k-1 then it just fell apart. It takes some time to really get to know someone. I spent 4 months with my wife in Russia before she came here and I wish I could have spent more time, but I got lucky and found a wonderful woman.
To be honest, I would never try this again. It's just too risky.

Good luck with everything.

[Mike78]

I would love to spend some time in Russia, or the Ukraine, or the Czech Republic, or whatever. Unfortunately I have a mortgage, and a job, etc etc. It seems as though I am limited to a few days at most.

Fabio, EU countries don't need visa to USA, so the girl can easily visit YOU in the comfort of your home, easy way to spend time with her to get to know each other.

[I/O]

98% of the issues have already been discussed thrice.

The lizard speaks with no forked tongue...!!!

Those issues will be hashed over again and there is nothing wrong with that as new perspectives do come to light. I've annoyed (among many), even some of the harder brigade over recent times with remarks on the changing social scenery in Russia. Nothing stays the same and as such I also acknowledge the value of the newer guys adding to the mix. Nevertheless, some basics remain constant and need to be raised again and again.....................publicly.

I only ever received one PM of advice around the time I first arrived (which was long after I was engaged to be married to a RW and was simply in the waiting phase) and that was regarding board conduct. I didn't like it but I certainly listened and no, it wasn't from Admin or a moderator. It was advice not direction, it was good and it simply wasn't appropriate to post on the open board. Knowing the author as I now do, doubtless the PM was given long and careful consideration before the send button was hit. Things have changed somewhat it seems. This is a forum, not an email server.

What I find distasteful is the way a few (New and old) descend upon the newcomers by PM in order to make some sort of preemptive statement about how helpful and knowledgeable they are. Straw kings who rather remind me of the "Pied Piper". I've always answered questions directed to me via PM (Not that there have been many) but never to this day found the need to go "selling" my opinion out of sight of public scrutiny. IMO it is rather feeble.

[I/O]

Fabio, EU countries don't need visa to USA, so the girl can easily visit YOU in the comfort of your home, easy way to spend time with her to get to know each other.

Apparently they do "order in" in the west, it hasn't taken off in Russia just jet. This sort of suggestion can lead a new guy off on stupid tangents. 

[Mike78]

Apparently they do "order in" in the west, it hasn't taken off in Russia just jet. This sort of suggestion can lead a new guy off on stupid tangents. 

What I meant is that if he meets somebody on his first visit she can come to see him easily in USA, no visa hassle and such. I have a Slovak girl like this lined up, she even wants to pay for her own airfare and would take time off work (another bonus - they're not super-poor as most FSUW, this however also means they're not desperate to leave for some old fat stupid guy just because he has a US passport)