Getting married in Russia..my step by step journal

[russianfront]

Getting married in Russia

I am going to do my best to detail my path towards getting married in Russia. I know its not going to be easy. I have some insight into the process – I was married in Ukraine in Feb. 2000. Looking back that was so simple and carefree. Prior to going on my 6 week trip there I cruised into a notary at the last minute and got a statement prepared saying that I was not married. Simple. I took the letter to Ukraine and the rest fell into place. I do remember a couple of details...having to go from ZAGS over to a bank to pay some ridiculously small sum. Also having to pay the ZAGS lady $40 to speed up our wedding as   I was leaving within 2 weeks of popping the question. The bribe went down quietly and discreetly. My ex told me that we should leave the room and talk. She told me to pull out $40. I gave it to her and she put it in an an envelope and set it on the ZAGS lady's table. We were married 2 or 3 days later in a ZAGS ceremony that I had no clue what was being said or done. I just went along for the ride. Well that was 10 years ago and things have changed.

Its a Russian woman I have fallen for this time around and its not gonna be so easy this time. I see that already. Russia is, well, Russia. Rules are made arbitrarily, you can never get a clear answer to anything, you never know where you stand and there is always a surly cop or bureaucrat just waiting to shake you down. I still chuckle and cringe (at the same time) about getting nailed for 3,000 rub in Moscow in October after being taken away in a Russian cop car by a guy with an AK around his shoulder. Classic tourist shake-down. As always in Russia you have 2 choices. You can pay (and think nasty thoughts of what you would like to do if things were different or the tables were turned) or you are f*cked. There is no grey area. I had such a situation today and I haven't even left home yet....More on that later. I speak from a little experience, I have already been to the FSU 5 times and when I go over in September it will be #6.

So here's how I have gotten to where I am now, step-by-step:

Step #1
Get divorce. Completed in February. Thank god, I am a free man. Whew...not too damaged emotionally or financially either.

Step #2
Try to find out how to get married in Russia. We looked at other possibilities but settled on getting married in her country. There were other options but all seemed just as complicated when I peeled back the layers. In Canada we do not have a Fiancee Visa program so that wasn't an option. For Canadians this process is SO much harder...I'll withhold further comments on this lest I say something I shouldn't.
Googled all I could on the topic. So much contradictory info out there on the web. Anytime you mix personal and Russian governmental affairs you are bound to be left with your head spinning. I got my girlfriend to go down to ZAGS and ask. I only ˝ understood what they wanted. But it was better than nothing. I do know that some people handle the paperwork in their home country while others handle it in Russia (Moscow). I decided to do it from home. I have no idea yet if that was the right decision.

Step #3
Went to Notary Public and got a Statutory Declaration that said: 1) I am free to marry 2) I want to marry _____ in Russia. Attached was my divorce certificate and passport. Lots of stamps, signatures and that blue corner thing. Total cost for this was $50. Not bad.

Step #4
Mail the above Statutory Declaration  to the Canadian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Ottawa because I was told by the Russian Embassy (I called them) that I need a STATEMENT IN LIEW OF A CIRTIFICATE OF NON-IMPEDIMENT TO MARRIAGE. Could they think of a more complicated name for a simple document that basically says I am not married at present! I was warned that this was free but would take 7 weeks. Paid $30 for round trip courier charges and sat back and waited a LOOOOONG time. Week after week I waited. At the 7 week point I started to call, call and call to basically kick the government in the ass and get them going. After numerous calls to brain-dead and faceless bureaucrats I found out that at about the 8 week point my documents were on my way back to me. Woo hoo! What I got back after waiting all that time was a letter saying that Canada does not issue STATEMENTS OF NON-IMPEDIMENT but just in case some 2 bit country wanted to know I now have a letter saying that they don't. To add insult to injury they spelled the middle name of my fiance incorrectly (added an extra “A”. I smell a bribe coming down the road..Might even be a show-stopper. Who knows. I still remember the time when my wife and I almost missed a flight because there was 1 letter miss-spelled on her ticket..

Step #5
Send the  STATEMENT IN LIEU OF A CIRTIFICATE OF NON-IMPEDIMENT TO MARRIAGE to the Russian Embassy in Ottawa for “Legalization” whatever that means. Some fancy stamps I think. I called the Embassy prior to ask what to do. I was told it was $60/document for “legalization” (again no idea what that means. So I send my statement, a cover letter and a money order for $60 on a 2 day courier. Things are starting to move. But things with Russians are never that easy. I am in a meeting at work today. I see a strange # come up on my call display. I step out of the room and answer. It is a Russian voice. Oh no, here we go. She tells me that they received the package but there is a problem. I have 4 documents instead of 1. I need to pay another $180 for “legalization” of all 4 documents. I say no, I sent 1 document with several pages (as bound by the notary). She says no, I talked with my boss and they have determined that my 4 page single document is actually 4 different documents. And if I don't pay the additional $180 they will not proceed. My blood pressure is boiling but I bite my tongue and politely ask what do they exactly do for the $240 I will have sent them for “legalization”. I also asked if they actually check into the validity of the documents or really do anything other than take 4 seconds to stamp 4 documents..... She mumbled something and laughed nervously. I am old enough to know that there is no sense arguing with a rock wall. So agree to pay and of course I loose a couple of days as they only take money orders. So down to get the $180 money order then $15 courier so I am out an unanticipated $200 for basically nothing. I can afford it, that's not the point. I just hate being shaken down and there is nothing I can do about it. Assuming that they don't give me any trouble over the mis-spelled name and I get my documents back next week I will proceed to step #6..

Step #6
Getting a Russian visa (to come).

[daveyj]

Thx for taking the time to write all this out.  Very useful information.  As a fellow Canadian, I empathize with your situation wrt fiance' visas.  Also, if you get fed up with marrying in Russia, Barbados seems to be the easiest option.  No visa required, only 2 days in the country required, and its an English speaking country.

I look forward to the rest of the story.

[russianfront]

We have hit a pretty major snag in our plans so nothing new to report. Haven't applied for a visa yet. In fact in less the "issue" between us is not sorted out I might be starting from scratch. Such is life...

[Markus]

We were married in Russia. It's a memory my wife and I have forever. I would not exchange our experience with being married in the U.S.

Mark

[Sail]

Russians say if you remember getting married in Russia it was not a good wedding..
I hear they have a very fun time at weddings!

[mendeleyev]

The process is more straightforward for Russia, but perhaps more paperwork and time involved than in Ukraine. While the rules for Ukraine's RAGS are in some ways similar to Russia's ZAGS, there are some differences. Keep in mind that Russia requires some official documents to have Apostille stamps. An Apostille is sort of a "super notary" and is only issued by States/Provinces and national governmental entities. It is a direct result of the Hague Convention, of which a component is also what makes a marriage legal in any country (a legal marriage done in one country is legal in any other country which is a signer of the Convention). Same for divorces, by the way.

Wikipedia explains it well: The Hague Convention Abolishing the Requirement for Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents is one of the international treaties drafted by the Hague Conference on Private International Law. It specifies the modalities through which a document issued in one of the signatory countries can be certified for legal purposes in all the other signatory states. Such a certification is called an Apostille (a French word meaning certification).

When we married in Moscow I had to return to the USA for a copy of an old California divorce decree with an Apostille from the California Secretary of State office and obtain an original copy (with raised state seal) of my Virginia birth certificate with Apostille from the Virginia Secretary of State. Fortunately there are bonded companies that can facilitate some of the long distance Apostille work, so they obtained the birth certificate and I made a short trip for the divorce decree copy with Apostille from the state of California.

At that time most Russians still were required to be legally "registered" in order to live in their city at a designated living address. The folks at ZAGS were insistent that such must be true also in the USA. Even though I lived and worked at the time in Moscow, I had to visit the mortgage office back in Arizona for a brief letter to certify that I was "registered" at the home addressed listed in my American passport. That letter also required an Apostille which I obtained from the Arizona Secretary of State's office. Fortunately today I think Russia has dropped that requirement.

Today I'm under the impression that a sworn statement at the Embassy of your "non-impediment to marriage" (meaning you don't have other wives stashed away somewhere else) has replaced the proof of divorce decree.

For an updated list of what is required, a good place to visit is: http://www.waytorussia.net/Practicalities/Marriage.html

Your country's Embassy in Moscow will have the requirements listed as well.

All documents not prepared originally, even the Apostille cover pages, must be then translated into Russia by a ZAGS approved translation agency and then further notarized in Russia by a special agency. So there is a lot of paperwork to do which takes several days of standing in line, making appointments, etc, and that should be completed during the waiting period.

Unlike Ukraine, about the only thing you can bribe here, and it's getting more difficult as authorities are trying to crack down on corruption, is the 32 day requirement. Russia has a "cooling off" period on marriage registrations which forces couples to register, then wait a month plus 2 days before the ceremony can be performed.

A ZAGS or RAGS wedding ceremony is unlike just about any experience in the West. It's much like a blend of the most upscale/fancy civil wedding with some of the pomp and circumstance of a church setting. It takes place at a "Wedding Palace" which is assigned based on your wife's registered address in many cases, is a literal "marriage mill" with lots of couples before and after you, and done in assembly line fashion, yet with a sense of regal royalty to it.

Countries of the FSU don't recognize church weddings as legal so often there are two ceremonies, first at ZAGS (Russia) or RAGS (Ukraine) and then later at a church. Traditionally couples travel en masse with the wedding party to several historic places or plazas to make toasts, take photos and leave flowers. In Moscow a very popular tradition is to lay some of the wedding flowers at the tomb of the Unknown Soldiers just outside Red Square and then release butterflies somewhere along the Aleksandr Gardens area or on Red Square (permit needed) itself. Couples in St Petersburg stop on canal bridges for toasts and the making of some very cool photos.

[mendeleyev]

Guys getting married in the FSU should learn some of the more traditional rituals which a lady might expect on her special day: The ransom of the bride that morning, wedding towels at the ceremony, wedding bread tradition at the party, order of toasts at the party, and to some ladies (no matter her age) the tradition of asking her father's blessing and that accompanying ritual of bread with vodka toasts after he approves. Note: some traditions vary widely from Russia to Ukraine or even from region to region so it's best to ask, listen, then research and ask followup questions of your lady.

Some ladies might also require you to meet with her family priest for his blessing. Mine did. Fortunately we attended the same Orthodox church in Moscow so he and I weren't exactly strangers, but it was still a very nervous time for me.

Grooms are also often responsible for transportation of the wedding party (most everybody including guests) to/from the lady's home, to ZAGS or RAGS, and on to the other destinations for flowers and toast, the wedding party itself, and then back home. She may not mention it but culturally you might be expected for those arrangements so don't hesitate to ask. Its cheaper than you'd expect.

Its not that unusual for the entire wedding party to end up back at her apartment, either for the wedding party if it's small or after a larger wedding party has ended at a restaurant, and that arrangement could be for several days depending on how far out of town relatives had to travel by train, so be mentally prepared to spend the wedding night in a one or two room apartment packed to the gills with guests. Not in all cases, but it isn't unusual. My MIL graciously arranged for everyone to move to an Aunt's place the second day so we got little bit of privacy before leaving for a honeymoon on a tour bus to St Pete. But not much.

[mendeleyev]

It is not considered to be badk luck to see the bride on the day of the wedding prior to the ceremony. In fact, it many traditions its expected. Once she is ready and has been "ransomed" that is, her mother and father will present her to you, then you will travel--along with everyone else--to the ZAGS or RAGS.

Some Ukrainian traditions make a big deal of the procession from her home to RAGS.

[mendeleyev]

Would you like to see a ЗАГС (ZAGS) wedding?

We'll walk step by step thru this brief video.


- Arrive at the bride's home to "ransom" her. In some families you must "buy" her with gifts, from chocolate to the kids who guard the door to nicer gifts for her close relatives/parents.

- Provide the transportation for everyone to the ЗАГС wedding palace.

- Sign more papers, pay fees, stand in line, take photos, stand in line some more, and then stand in line with lots of other couples there to do the same thing.

- Lots of flowers (the grooms responsibility at the end of ceremony) will come from everyone.

- From 00 to 1:00 you see everyone standing, waiting.

- At 1:13 a man appears. He is carrying a large traditional loaf of wedding bread which will be part of the wedding party later. Notice that he has towels--one under the bread but also he has matching wedding towels across his shoulders. Those are symbolic and will used in the ceremony to represent two families becoming one, and the first towel to be used in baptism when the couple's children are born.

- 1:22 Inside ZAGS but still waiting.

- 1:28 An attendant gathers the party when it's almost time to enter one of the many wedding halls.

- 1:31 The attendant ushers the party inside the room. Depending on how much you paid for the wedding package, you may hear an organ or in some cases a small string orchestra to play the wedding march.

- 2:10 The man who carried the bread is just behind the couple, a girlfriend or female relative is standing next to the couple with the wedding towels.

- 2:12 The female official (it's almost always a lady official) takes over.

- 2:15 You'll notice that everyone stands, not always, but this is very common. Photographers must work fast because this is a marriage mill and in just 15 or so minutes, this room will be reserved for another couple who is already waiting outside the door for this ceremony to finish.

- 2:50 The main wedding towel is laid on the floor by the couple's attendants. This towel represents two families and the couple step out onto it to make a new family that integrates both sets of relatives. (If they have a religious wedding the towels will be used in the Orthodox or Jewish wedding ceremony also.)

- 3:08 Wondering if this symbol means anything in modern times? Take a look at the bride's face when she steps onto the towel.

- 3:20 The official brings the rings to the groom. He dedicated it and places it on her RIGHT hand (exactly opposite of how we wear them in the West). Notice that it is a single ring, engagement rings are not commonly used by FSU couples. She then places a ring on his RIGHT hand.

- 3:50 As soon as the rings go on the party claps--they are not officially married.

- 4:25 Now the couple must finish signing their marriage documents. It's official. In some ZAGS this is done while seated at a table but this ZAGS the couple stands.

- 4:45 The official introduces the couple before giving them a few brief comments of encouragement.

- 5:14 Just a note about wedding towels as the officiant present the towel to the bride. In the church ceremony two of these towels present would be tied about the couples hands, binding them together during most of the ceremony. In a Jewish wedding these towels have very similar meanings.

- 7:00 Notice that the photographers have been busy in the background? That is because this ceremony is over. The next couple is waiting outside and there is no time for lingering to pose for photos.

- Did you notice that although a civil wedding, it feels and seems more like something of a church styled setting? A big mistake WM think is that because it's a "justice of the peace" type ceremony, it must be cheap and casual. Nothing of the sort in most cases.

- The photos following were taken before the ceremony while the couple was waiting for their turn.

- This party is just starting. They will go en masse to at least one, if not several, parks or memorials to place many of their flowers on tombs of unknown soldiers and/or national heros, etc. They will stop at parks and plazas to open up champagne to make toasts and take photos while on the way to a wedding dinner party in most cases.

- 8:30 The assembled party chants "goika" (bitter) meaning that the wine and champagne they're about to drink is bitter, however the more the couple kisses, the drinks become sweeter and sweeter. There is a LOT of kissing at such a wedding...can't have bitter champagne, now can we?  

- 9:12 Still in the parking lot and the celebration begins. The groom pops open the ceremonial first bottle of spirits. In some traditions their hands would be tied with the towels as they give each other a first taste of champagne.

- That big loaf of wedding bread will begin the first part of the wedding dinner ceremonies. As the couple enter the room together a family elder will approach with the bread. They'll each grab for a big of piece as possible because tradition says that whoever breaks off and eats the largest portion gets to be head of the house.

[mendeleyev]

This video is of a young couple with some different twists--more Orthodox in preparation for a ZAGS wedding.




-00:00 The groom has come to her apartment to collect his bride for the trip to ZAGS. Her family first present them with a traditional Orthodox wedding Icon, just like my wife's family did for us and as my wife and I did for our eldest daughter who was married 2 years ago.

- :30 Leaving the apartment.

- 1:30 Arrival at ZAGS.

- 1:40 Waiting, photos, more waiting.

- 3:00 Open the doors and enter to the traditional Mendelssohn's "Wedding March". For a country that fought Germany in a long war, Russians adore this music. For those interested, it was at the wedding of Princess Victoria, daughter of England's Queen Victoria, that Felix Mendelssohn's composition was used in a Royal wedding. She wed the prince of Prussia and Russians have loved that theme ever since.

3:30 Although musicians have been arranged (thru the ZAGS) and photographers, you can tell that this ceremony is more simple than the first.

- 4:30 In this ceremony the couple sits at the wedding table to sign their final documents.

- 6:13 Holey Moley, he gives her quite the kiss! Then the rings are exchanged.

- 8:25 Dang, this film editor is good--they've moved into the outer hall and I didn't even catch it.

- 9:45 A funny scene here and following: The first toast (again in the ZAGS parking lot) is given and the party starts up the "goika" (bitter) chant to which the couple kisses, and kisses, and kisses as the party counts: Raz (1), Dva (2), Tri (3), and counts to 12. Whether they intended or not, there is some signifance in counting to 3 and to 12--both are tied to the number of times a sacred "Lord, have mercy" is said at certain points in a liturgical blessing, including in the wedding sacrament.

- 10:52 The groom throws his glass to the ground to break it, a common custom in many weddings after the first toast.

Did you catch the old Babushka sweeping back at 10:04 to 10:14 on the porch steps? She will come out and sweep up the glass after the couple leaves. This was a smaller town ZAGS, one of the reasons why there was less pressure to leave the room immediately after the ceremony concluded.

[mendeleyev]

This ceremony in Kyiv adds a few twists.

- 3:30 It is the officiant who offers the first champagne toast near the end of the ceremony!

- 4:00 The wedding bread is incorporated into this ZAGS ceremony.

4:30 First the couple approach and bow three times (representing the Holy Trinity) in submission to the families which brought them into the world and to this point.

- 4:37 The couple kiss the bread as it will be incorporated later in the wedding party ceremony.

- 6:45 In the limo the couple have friends...and you can see the champagne. (The groom was very impressed with the Zal (hall) for some reason.) He was also quite pleased to call her his "Zhe-nah" (wife).





Another wedding in Kyiv:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=85114404&v=sYNS5dDJEOg&feature=player_embedded&x-yt-ts=1422579428

[mendeleyev]

Lily, thanks for sharing that--what a cool look back at ZAGS in the 1070s!

The first wedding I attended in the Soviet Union was a Uzbek Jewish wedding in Tashkent in the 90s. Although it was possible to enjoy most of the wedding celebration, there were parts of the event in which those of us who were non-Jewish could not be present. Nevertheless it was a first experience at a ZAGS and then the lavish celebration afterward and seeing some very unique Uzbek wedding traditions that are totally absent from our Western experience.

By the way, I love those cars in your video!

[mendeleyev]

This young lady does a marvelous job at explaining some of her Ukrainian wedding traditions: