Ah yes, Russia, now in the Enlightened Era

[Shadow]

shadow, are you a Russian propagandist/spy planted in western europe by Putin?? 

Brad, if you wish to marry a Russian woman it would be wise to learn more about the FSU and the real happenings there instead of blindly following the Western propaganda.
Probably that is why you do not wish to visit Moscow and Kiev, it is too damaging on your picture of the FSU being a poor third-world country where women adore anyone who gives them the chance to escape from their Stalinist regime.

[brad5959]

Brad, if you wish to marry a Russian woman it would be wise to learn more about the FSU and the real happenings there instead of blindly following the Western propaganda.
Probably that is why you do not wish to visit Moscow and Kiev, it is too damaging on your picture of the FSU being a poor third-world country where women adore anyone who gives them the chance to escape from their Stalinist regime.

that's pretty boorish, Shadow.  I do not think of the FSU as being third world.  and I do not think that women will marry anyone to leave.  I think they have their pride and they wish to be with someone they love and care about.

but, once again, are you here just to spout Putin style propaganda, or can you offer something more creative and intelligent??

[Ranetka]

but, once again, are you here just to spout Putin style propaganda, or can you offer something more creative and intelligent??

Just curious, what Shadow said you consider propaganda Brad? And how do you know Putin style propaganda from any other types? Can you read Russian?

[brad5959]

100% of Russian media is government owned.  it's ALL propaganda.  I do not need to read Russian.  Russian media is translated into english by expert translators.  we can see what is happening (free speech suppressed by firing such journalists, or murder if that does not work).  and I have been there and witnessed the grinding poverty firsthand.  not third world, yet not first world either.

[brad5959]

Lets see what the idea is here.
There was a rally of 100 people on the Red Square for which no permission was asked or granted. In such cases the organiser of the rally is held responsible, and will be arrested.

Freedom ? Go stand with 100 people on Times Square or in front of the White House unannounced and without permission and see how long you can stay there without anyone being arrested.

Obeying the law is of course only needed for those who follow the government. Those who call themselves leftist freedom fighters have the right to break the law.

PROPAGANDA, Shadow.  you can go stand in front of the White House or Times Square with 100 people anytime you want to.   

[ECOCKS]

shadow, are you a Russian propagandist/spy planted in western europe by Putin?? 

 

[Blues Fairy]

Fake quote, just as fake as the constant propaganda spread against Russia, in the hope people will regard it once again as the Big Enemy.

What is your idea of modern Russia?  Is it, in your opinion, a free society? A true democracy?

[Shadow]

100% of Russian media is government owned.  it's ALL propaganda.  I do not need to read Russian.  Russian media is translated into english by expert translators.  we can see what is happening (free speech suppressed by firing such journalists, or murder if that does not work).  and I have been there and witnessed the grinding poverty firsthand.  not third world, yet not first world either.

Western media is 100% propaganda. American elections are 100% based on media show else people would not choose presidents that have no clue what they are doing.
Brad, I advise you to stay away from the FSU.

[Shadow]

PROPAGANDA, Shadow.  you can go stand in front of the White House or Times Square with 100 people anytime you want to.   

Already been through that. It seems America is still not concerned with pubic safety, perhaps the next terrorist attack will make them think.

[brad5959]

I personally do not buy into the idea that Russia is the "big enemy" but I think it is also sad that Russia could be so much more than it is if they had a free press, etc, etc.  the propaganda does not hurt the west, Shadow, it only further enslaves the east.

[kievstar]

Shadow, If Washington DC got attacked and all politicians in senate, house, and President staff died in the short-term people would be angry and sad.  But in the long-term the terrorists did the best thing for USA politics since George Washington. 

[Shadow]

What is your idea of modern Russia?  Is it, in your opinion, a free society? A true democracy?

Russia has more personal freedom as most Western countries. That applies to people who live their daily life as they wish.

The Russian President and Duma are chosen by democratoc elections. As such it is a true democracy. In any democracy the opposition can and has the right to criticize the government, ind this regularly happens. The elections them selves are watched by several countries and have not been found to be incorrect.
There are several faults noticed, however that is nothing different from Western elections where on election day also errors are being made.

Are there problems for the opposition ? That depends. The communist party and the party of Zhirinovsky are not being impeded in their work, and they seem to be able to get in to the press and demonstrations.
The news that leaks in to the Western media regarding broken up demonstrations are usually coming from one particular political party, where Gary Kasparov and Boris Nemtsov are in the lead, rumoured to be funded by the USA, which explains why every move of a party that has not a single seat in the Duma is big news in Western oriented media.

When you watch the Russian news, you see that the Predisent and Prime Minister are daily doing a good amount of work, meeting various leaders, going to where a strong hand is needed or doing ceremonies. Also in the Russian news things are not hidden. Demonstrations and other problems are shown.

Are there things to be straightened out ? Of course. There still is a lot of corruption on different levels. There still is intimidation of people who try to uncover certain things. There still are daily bomb attacks and murders in Chechnya and Dagestan, on the scale of what happens in Baghdad. At times the terrorists reach Moscow to make an attack.

However in general Russia is not more or less free or democratic as most Western countries. There is just a general tendency to regard Russia in the view of being the 'enemy', and magnifying every negative piece of news while forgetting the positives.
Unfortunately some people are stupid enough to fall for thise type of propaganda, and accuse those who try to look at the full picture of not knowing the truth.

[Shadow]

I personally do not buy into the idea that Russia is the "big enemy" but I think it is also sad that Russia could be so much more than it is if they had a free press, etc, etc.  the propaganda does not hurt the west, Shadow, it only further enslaves the east.

The thing is that Russia *has* free press. etc etc.
the problem is that the Western propaganda just ignores it as it does not fit the picture they wish to spread.

[brad5959]

Western media is 100% propaganda. American elections are 100% based on media show else people would not choose presidents that have no clue what they are doing.
Brad, I advise you to stay away from the FSU.

sorry Shadow your advise is not accepted.  I've already been there and will return soon.  not much you can do about it either.  unless you're trying to make some sort of bizarre veiled threat, like you really are FSB.

[BC]

PROPAGANDA, Shadow.  you can go stand in front of the White House or Times Square with 100 people anytime you want to.  

Seems in front of the white house groups of more than 25 need a permit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/27/protesters-arrested-outside-white-house/

[Shadow]

sorry Shadow your advise is not accepted.  I've already been there and will return soon.  not much you can do about it either.  unless you're trying to make some sort of bizarre veiled threat, like you really are FSB.

Brad, understand that I am trying to help you. Your current mindset will not be accepted by a normal, educated, RW and you will find yourself wondering why.  Any woman who is willing to leave in a hurry for the land of milk and honey might put up with it for the time being, until better options arrive. And of course those who are oppressed by the Government, which should leave you with a slection of millions of women in your view.

[Blues Fairy]

Shadow, it's amazing that, claiming free press exists in Russia, you still ignore its reports of MASSIVE voter fraud that helped elect its current politicians, MASSIVE corruption of gov't and business structures from top to bottom, and pervasive violations of human rights and free press.  What free press, exactly, are you reading then?

[BC]

I personally do not buy into the idea that Russia is the "big enemy" but I think it is also sad that Russia could be so much more than it is if they had a free press, etc, etc.  the propaganda does not hurt the west, Shadow, it only further enslaves the east.

Today very little has to do with government control over media.

In some places the government controls, in others business controls with political interest involved.  No real difference.

I sorta draw the line where access to media of any kind is restricted, i.e. China and internet.

You won't get arrested in Moscow for lounging at a cafe reading the Wall Street Journal or accessing some foreign news website on your iPad.  When that happens I'll agree with you Brad.

I find myself often perusing http://rt.com/ or even http://english.aljazeera.net/  both IMHO have developed into respectable news outlets.  They have a view and other news outlets have their view.. as long as I can view both sides and decide for myself I have a hard time complaining about restricted freedom of the press.

I kinda agree with Shadow that your interpretations may end up being viewed by many as insult.

Gaining a 'worldly view' begins with first accepting that others are different, not by telling them they are wrong.

[brad5959]

Brad, understand that I am trying to help you. Your current mindset will not be accepted by a normal, educated, RW and you will find yourself wondering why.  Any woman who is willing to leave in a hurry for the land of milk and honey might put up with it for the time being, until better options arrive. And of course those who are oppressed by the Government, which should leave you with a slection of millions of women in your view.

Shadow--my current mindset??  I might be hyper competitive with men, however I am a perfect gentleman around ladies and I know how to charm the socks off of them.  besides being athletic and easy on the eyes.  "a normal, educated RW?"  the last one was not very well educated and rough around the edges but she has a lot of other attributes.  I intend to meet several more before making my choice.

[brad5959]

Today very little has to do with government control over media.

In some places the government controls, in others business controls with political interest involved.  No real difference.

I sorta draw the line where access to media of any kind is restricted, i.e. China and internet.

You won't get arrested in Moscow for lounging at a cafe reading the Wall Street Journal or accessing some foreign news website on your iPad.  When that happens I'll agree with you Brad.

I find myself often perusing http://rt.com/ or even http://english.aljazeera.net/  both IMHO have developed into respectable news outlets.  They have a view and other news outlets have their view.. as long as I can view both sides and decide for myself I have a hard time complaining about restricted freedom of the press.

I kinda agree with Shadow that your interpretations may end up being viewed by many as insult.

Gaining a 'worldly view' begins with first accepting that others are different, not by telling them they are wrong.

I also like to read news from as many sources as possible.  I lived in Europe for three years so I am very accepting of other viewpoints especially when travelling.  I may not agree with Shadow here on this forum but when travelling I always look for the positive and avoid getting involved in political discussions in almost all cases.

[BC]

Shadow, it's amazing that, claiming free press exists in Russia, you still ignore its reports of MASSIVE voter fraud that helped elect its current politicians, MASSIVE corruption of gov't and business structures from top to bottom, and pervasive violations of human rights and free press.  What free press, exactly, are you reading then?

Blues,

Corruption exists everywhere on massive scales.  I view US elections as a buyout for the few percentage points that make the difference.  I'd much rather see a government issued soapbox strapped to the back of every candidate instead of simple but expensive marketing techniques.

[Blues Fairy]

Blues,

Corruption exists everywhere on massive scales.  I view US elections as a buyout for the few percentage points that make the difference.  I'd much rather see a government issued soapbox strapped to the back of every candidate instead of simple but expensive marketing techniques.

The difference between U.S. and Russia is the system of checks and balances which allows corruption to be exposed and battled; in Russia, a single-party rule, authoritarian government and government domination of media renders this task practically impossible.   

[Shadow]

Shadow, it's amazing that, claiming free press exists in Russia, you still ignore its reports of MASSIVE voter fraud that helped elect its current politicians, MASSIVE corruption of gov't and business structures from top to bottom, and pervasive violations of human rights and free press.  What free press, exactly, are you reading then?

It is even more amazing claiming free press does not exist. For which papers were those murdered journalists writing in Russia ? If there was no free press they would be unable to spread their message.
As for massive voter fraud, just check the reports on recent elections in Holland where similar frauds was comitted. Not exclusive to Russia or any other country. In the end the result as was given was not far off the result without fraud.
Corruption of government exists in many ways. Paying officials to be elected who then grant projects to their sponsors is a form of corruption.  And FYI there is quite a battle against corruption currently going on. For that you would have to read the 'government controlled news' of course, as Western media would not bring this.
The massive violations of human rights... perhaps you can give some good recent examples outside organisations who have similar questions about human rights in countries like the Netherlands and the USA ?

As for press, I am reading several sources. Western media include BBC, Dutch news and CNN. Russian media include 1st channel, Russia 24, Kazakhstan and Armenian news. In case of special events I try to look to other channels both on sattellite and internet.
Russia Today sometimes is interesting, but mostly looks more like tabloid propaganda.

[Shadow]

The difference between U.S. and Russia is the system of checks and balances which allows corruption to be exposed and battled; in Russia, a single-party rule, authoritarian government and government domination of media renders this task practically impossible.   

Single-party rule is not strange to many Western countries. In fact the three-party coalition as in Holland is often looked upon with amazement.
Domination of media is no any different in Western societies, however the amount of people actually tuning in to one single media is lower, thus keeping the appearance of more sourdces of information.

[kievstar]

Corruption is not exposed in the USA.  Why do you think USA has the largest lobbyist ring in the World by people and $'s.  

Corruption is just different in the USA than Russia.  But it is still corruption.  

Rich people in USA just like Russia have advantages the rest of the population do not have.  Politicians get secret handshakes all the time.  Even college athletics are corrupt.  

Anyone who thinks USA is an ethical country is a fool.  Maybe the most corrupt country in the world based on $'s.