she was a scammer all right (lost $1200)

[brad5959]

I agree 100%  , however  , I was able to read her , having  life experiences  that allow me to 

I think you were lucky--you met the exception to the rule.  and I also wish you good luck in the future.

[Faux Pas]

I think you were lucky--you met the exception to the rule.  and I also wish you good luck in the future.

Your comment directed at his wife was quite tacky and uncalled for. 

Many guys and even some of the more experienced guys here at the forum admit to sending money (usually for travel) in advance. Still a no no in my book but, to each their own. One common theme among those guys is they communicated thoroughly with the women and did their due diligence away from the agency.  I suspect another common thread is they were women who did not contact them unsolicited,

[brad5959]

it probably was tacky but something about his wife and her friends testing him out struck a nerve.  we both know that if a man tests a woman and she figures it out he is shown the door and pronto.  as for men who feel they have enough communication, etc. to send a woman money I believe it is begging for trouble.  it is just too easy for a man to want to trust a woman that he's hoping to consummate a relationship with.  better to tell her he will reimburse her when she shows up or just go to her hometown first before travelling together anywhere else.

[Rutherford]

it probably was tacky but something about his wife and her friends testing him out struck a nerve.  we both know that if a man tests a woman and she figures it out he is shown the door and pronto.  as for men who feel they have enough communication, etc. to send a woman money I believe it is begging for trouble.  it is just too easy for a man to want to trust a woman that he's hoping to consummate a relationship with.  better to tell her he will reimburse her when she shows up or just go to her hometown first before travelling together anywhere else.

What you wrote did not bother me .    To clarify , my wife's girl friends  did the same to their  pre-husbands  .

For every scammer , there may be 50  honest  ones

[brad5959]

well I'm glad you have thick skin because I was busted.  I think for every scammer there is probably 500 honest ones--it's just that the scammers and the unethical agencies ruin it for the good women, and for the men on this endeavor as well.  but scams are not unique to Russia or Ukraine, they have been going on for probably thousands of years almost everywhere.

[Ravens9273]

I knew someone who worked for moneygram before. I do not know how WU operates but I cannot see it as being much different.
Go to the place you sent the money. Tell them you sent money to a scammer. Moneygram would send a fake transaction again to the person (no real money) and have a notice on the transaction for the agent on the other side to call the police when it was attempted to be picked up.
From what I was told before that 99% of the time when money wires are used for scams you either 1) have the persons real name or 2) When fake names are used the agent on other side is part of the scam.
Since ID is required for money pick ups either a real ID was used or agent knew of fake transaction and allowed a pickup without ID (meaning they were part of it). If the fake transaction is being collected without calling police Moneygram would investigate agent on other side and possibly remove their account for transfers.
While your money is gone for good there is chance of at least getting this person and or putting their name on block list for receiving transfers.

[brad5959]

I knew someone who worked for moneygram before. I do not know how WU operates but I cannot see it as being much different.
Go to the place you sent the money. Tell them you sent money to a scammer. Moneygram would send a fake transaction again to the person (no real money) and have a notice on the transaction for the agent on the other side to call the police when it was attempted to be picked up.
From what I was told before that 99% of the time when money wires are used for scams you either 1) have the persons real name or 2) When fake names are used the agent on other side is part of the scam.
Since ID is required for money pick ups either a real ID was used or agent knew of fake transaction and allowed a pickup without ID (meaning they were part of it). If the fake transaction is being collected without calling police Moneygram would investigate agent on other side and possibly remove their account for transfers.
While your money is gone for good there is chance of at least getting this person and or putting their name on block list for receiving transfers.

excellent post.  on top of this if the Ukraine tax office is made aware of the transfer of money and the name of the scammer they will go after them for back income tax as it is considered to be taxable income.  the police also might prosecute them and put them in jail/prison to make an example of them.  it has happened in Russian and it can happen in Ukraine as well. 

[kievstar]

Ukraine tax authorities are not going to go after someone for $1,200 usd. 

[brad5959]

I don't believe that.  the US IRS went after me for about $1,000.00, why would Ukraine be any less diligent?  besides the amount is probably more than $10,000.00 as these scammers have been prolific.

[baldhiker]

I knew someone who worked for moneygram before. I do not know how WU operates but I cannot see it as being much different.
Go to the place you sent the money. Tell them you sent money to a scammer. Moneygram would send a fake transaction again to the person (no real money) and have a notice on the transaction for the agent on the other side to call the police when it was attempted to be picked up.
From what I was told before that 99% of the time when money wires are used for scams you either 1) have the persons real name or 2) When fake names are used the agent on other side is part of the scam.
Since ID is required for money pick ups either a real ID was used or agent knew of fake transaction and allowed a pickup without ID (meaning they were part of it). If the fake transaction is being collected without calling police Moneygram would investigate agent on other side and possibly remove their account for transfers.
While your money is gone for good there is chance of at least getting this person and or putting their name on block list for receiving transfers.

Brilliant. I'm going to get in touch with WU and see what I can do. Thanks

[kievstar]

Brad, your comparing the USA IRS (huge organization) to Ukraine. 

Less than 7,000 people reported more than $150,000 usd in income in Ukraine in 2009 which includes 45 million Ukraine people and foreign expats.  I was one of the 7,000 people and am a USA citizen.  They have bigger fish to catch than $1,000 usd moneygrams / Western Unions. 

No one reports proper income in Ukraine.  A big reason Ukraine is an economic mess is they have a tax process which makes no sense and no enforcement.  They are changing it but it is going to take time.  I do like the new tax rules there going to more than likely make effective soon which will crush the $2M loop hole for small business owners in Ukraine who pay little tax. 

[tfcrew]

Ukraine tax authorities are not going to go after someone for $1,200 usd. 

Especially for internet stuff where all this could have been pulled off by Fat Yuri somewhere in Minsk.

[Shadow]

Unfortunately we are talking about the FSU here.
If they give enough effort to have a woman being called, they will be smart enough to let an old babushka pick up the money and hand it to them.
You could be lucky if you encountered someone new in the business, but do not count on it.

[brad5959]

Brad, your comparing the USA IRS (huge organization) to Ukraine. 

Less than 7,000 people reported more than $150,000 usd in income in Ukraine in 2009 which includes 45 million Ukraine people and foreign expats.  I was one of the 7,000 people and am a USA citizen.  They have bigger fish to catch than $1,000 usd moneygrams / Western Unions. 

No one reports proper income in Ukraine.  A big reason Ukraine is an economic mess is they have a tax process which makes no sense and no enforcement.  They are changing it but it is going to take time.  I do like the new tax rules there going to more than likely make effective soon which will crush the $2M loop hole for small business owners in Ukraine who pay little tax. 

like I said Kievstar, the scammers could be prolific so the amount they have not paid tax on could be 10K, for all we know it could even be 50K.  if a good politician wants to make an example out of them to scare others to pay their taxes, that could happen.  the tax office of Ukraine could pursue it.

[facetrock]

  Brad and Baldhiker. Listen to Kievstar. Total waste of time to report the scammer to the tax authorities. The Ukraine tax authority wont care, wont ever get your message and like Kiev said have bigger fish to fry. The politicians are to busy having fistfights with each other to even think of going after some gal or guy in Podunkville for 1200 dollars.
 
   Baldhiker you've wasted enough time already. Go rafting and forget about it.

On another note I have sent money to women for apartment rental before I arrived. But that was after hours of phone calls and skype webcam. Never had a problem

[Jumper]

the only reason authorities  likely would investigate it ,if they thought it was a proflific ring that had 50K to spare..,

then they might visit them to remind them to pay thier "roof"
(or percent of the 50K to avoid taxation or charges)

 

[ECOCKS]

Brilliant. I'm going to get in touch with WU and see what I can do. Thanks

You've received good advice on this several times Bald. Let it go and move on to your vacation and just learn from it. You aren't going to accomplish anything by playing with her or seeking some sort of revenge or exacting of penance on her part.

[Vinnvinny]

I am somewhat surprised by the tone of some comments made here. ‘If she only got you for $1200, consider yourself lucky’, ‘better luck next time’, ‘too bad this happened to you’.

This particular scam had nothing to do whatsoever with luck and had everything to do with incompetent and gullible actions. There is no excuse for not carrying out research and there is no excuse for not listening to the advice of others who have considerably more experience. Whilst I wouldn’t wish for anyone to be ‘robbed’ of their money, lady luck had no play in this situation whatsoever.

A little research would have revealed that you can find a decent apartment in Kiev centre for just over $500 for a week with at worst you having to pay up front for the first night. Most reputable rental agencies will accept this via credit card. Her train ticket from Lugansk would have been peanuts and if a girl told you that she couldn’t raise that amount herself then that on its own should have been a big red flag. Sure, some guys have ‘successfully’ sent money to ladies they have never met but there is usually a common denominator at play in that they built up some FSU knowledge and on the ground experience and have taken certain actions to reduce their exposure/risk.

Sorry baldhiker but as a result of your unwillingness to think with your big brain, carry out research and take advice, you had made it just a little more difficult for guys like me who are still searching. I don’t thank you for that, it’s hard enough already. Feel free to call in the Ukrainian tax authorities or contact WU. My belief is that your time will be better spent by reading this forum from top to bottom before you do anything else FSU related.

Fact: If WM stopped being so gullible then the whole scamming industry would die a very quick death.

[Boethius]

Fact: If WM stopped being so gullible then the whole scamming industry would die a very quick death.

Well, that isn't restricted to FSU scammers.   The same can be said of a myriad of Nigerian scams, Western pyramid schemes, free holidays, free gym memberships, etc.

Cons have existed since the beginning of mankind.  They're not going to end, no matter what we wish.

[GQBlues]

I don't care what you say.  the rule is NEVER send money to someone you have not met.  if you need to meet them in their hometown to accomplish the mission, that is fine.  but do NOT ever, ever send money to a woman (man?) you have not met.  this has been proven over and over, that a fool and his money are soon parted.  you were a lucky exception to the rule!

Brad-

The bottom line is you need to follow what's comfortable with/for you. While I can sit here and tell you it worked for me, chances are it'll be totally different with you - thus we both have conviction we adhere to.

The OP's experience is certainly not the first, nor will it be the last. One thing however that seem fairly universal is you can almost predict exactly what and which advise/opinions they seem to grab unto to by the ensuing replies they follow with. They almost always react to posts that either suggest an uncertainty or outright say the woman is not a scammer.

There's another scam case like this one on the board just recently which netted the same result. I believe it has little to do with diligence but rather a lot to do with cases where a WM is holding unto a 'photo' like this and hoping upon hope that she's real and are really into him despite his instincts telling him otherwise. If the person is willing to completely disregard his instincts and common sense, what chance do the members have in trying to convince him otherwise.

It is in these times where you know regardless what you say the inevitable just needs to take it's course.

[BillyB]

Well, folks, I got bit. I've been talking to this chick for four months now, and even spoke with her over the phone a couple of times, but it was a scam and she got me good. Lost nearly $1,200 because she said she'd set up an apartment in Kiev for a week (I was supposed to leave on Saturday), and tickets to and from Lugansk to meet her parent and friends. Then she asked me for rent money today, because she's losing her apartment:

Always better to visit a woman in her city. Scammers understand some men prefer RW to come to big cities to meet them so they figured out a story to scam those kind of men. They understand most of their victims are not keyboard romeos but would actually make a visit so they are very accomadating to your needs so that you will accomodate them.

If you or anybody else reading has any questions about a RW asking for money, it's better to ask here before sending money so we can give you a wake up call with a swift kick in the butt. You're all anonymous so don't feel embarrassed asking a question. It may save you thousands.

baldhiker, you've been on this forum for a month and a half. You had plenty of time to read the basics on scamming and never send money. Your big head was educated so the little head made the decision to send money. RW in the FSU have lived all their lives without you and your money and can continue to live all their lives without you and your money. If a woman needs money since she's struggling to live, then one has to question if she has family and friends to help and if they don't want to help, then maybe it's best to look for another woman who has friends and good family.

[ECOCKS]

Well, that isn't restricted to FSU scammers.   The same can be said of a myriad of Nigerian scams, Western pyramid schemes, free holidays, free gym memberships, etc.

Cons have existed since the beginning of mankind.  They're not going to end, no matter what we wish.

And that is not just limited to the Internet, add:

"My crew and I are in the area and our current client cancelled at the last minute. We could put new gutters/paint job/roof repairs/pour concrete/whateve for half the cost of licensed contractors if you you could pay us just enough to go get the materials at my brother's friend's warehouse. We'll be back this aftenoon and have it done by tomorrow night!"

"This car was only driven to and from church on Sundays for 9 years by my 80-year old grandmother, God rest her soul."

"Simply put a minimum of $50,000 in this one year investment contract and it will return 20% per quarter. You decide if you want to increase the amount each quarter if you want."

"Now I shouldn't do this because it would get me fired if the boss found out but I can let you have it for XX% off on a cash deal."

"Lucky Duck in the 4th race at Pimlico to win, you can't lose!"

"My name is Tanya/Olga/Helen/Marina and I've never been in this pub before, may I sit with you and have a drink so I don't look out-of-place?"

[Faux Pas]

That means for me to contact men at FreePersonals.ru and at RussianEuro.ru is alright...

...but not at Meetic.com (which is European) or FriendFinder.com (which is American)?

 
I suppose you can contact them anywhere you please 

So, according to you,  if I contact a man at the site which is targeting "Russian women" market in particular, this is acceptable - right?

However if I am aiming at normal men, who are as far from that "Russian mail order bride" hype as possible, and initiate contacts at the international dating sites - then it is an unsolicited contact?

Aren't you contradicting yourself here. You are a Russian woman are you not? How can you contact men  on international sites who are "far from Russian mail order bride hype"? Obviously, they wouldn't be far from the hype if they contacted or responded to you, would they?

Does that mean you give me less rights than European and American women - and somehow less worth? Thank you for clarifying!

Actually no, I don't give you rights or set your self worth. You'll have to do that on your own. It would appear you have some work to do in that regard 

[kievstar]

Olgah, you know friendfinder is a porn site for men and women to meet.  What are you doing on that site?

[Olga_Mouse]

Olgah, you know friendfinder is a porn site for men and women to meet. 

First, there is no H in my last name or forum name.

Second, if amongst a dozen of sites belonging to FriendFinder (MillionairMate, Amigos, AsiaFreindFinder, GermanFriendFinder, ItalianFriendFinder, FrenchFriendFinder, GradFinder, BigChurch, GayFriendFinder, KoreanFriendFinder, SeniorFriendFinder, JewishFriendFinder, IndianFriendFinder, PhilipinoFriendFinder...) you are aware of only one - Adult Friend Finder - it speaks volumes about YOUR interestes & goals first of all...

What are you doing on that site?

Having a profile there, obviously