Good advice from someone who doesn't know anything.

[Tag-n-bag]

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.


Trust me, this should be your first requirement unless you speak Russian. The advantages are obvious and this one bit of advice will save you money as well as headaches.

So, if this is your first outing, a nice ass, beautiful eyes, incredible rack and oh so sexy lips are nice, but go for English first, let the other stuff come later.

[Gylden]

But somebody has to pay for all of those English lessons!!
 

[Jumper]

are you going to add #2?
That it's best to go for someone of good integrity and character as well?

 
  

[kievstar]

I guess I should trade my wife in as she spoke no English when I met her.  English is a very easy language to learn in 6 -12 months if your woman is smart and motivated.  

Every person is unique and different methods work.  There is a guy on this board who just did well in Kiev with an Odessa area girl mainly because he dated more in his league by meeting with a woman with a child already.  I told him to do this 2 years ago (he would not listen) and by the way this guy hates me for pointing it out two years ago. I am sure when he posts his trip later this week he will not mention that I told him to go after women with children 2 years ago.

Every case is different.  Some men have a huge league to date from and some have a dried up pool to select from.  League is more than looks and age.  But anybody can step up to the plate several times and get a hit.  The key is to have a successful longterm marriage.  Learning English is just a small hurdle.

[wicheese]

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

But that would mean I would have to talk to them, it can't be a good thing 

[Shadow]

I communicated with women with varying level of English. MrsShadow was not the highest in language skills, though she was far from the worst.
With one woman I communicated in Italian, another preferred French. As I have some command of both languages it did not matter. A common language is more important, it does not have to be English.

[ECOCKS]

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.


Trust me, this should be your first requirement unless you speak Russian. The advantages are obvious and this one bit of advice will save you money as well as headaches.

So, if this is your first outing, a nice ass, beautiful eyes, incredible rack and oh so sexy lips are nice, but go for English first, let the other stuff come later.

It's an important consideration (for BOTH parties) but not critical depending on their personalities, patience and tolerance.

[Faux Pas]

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.

1. Find a woman who is either fluent or at least proficient in English.


Trust me, this should be your first requirement unless you speak Russian. The advantages are obvious and this one bit of advice will save you money as well as headaches.

So, if this is your first outing, a nice ass, beautiful eyes, incredible rack and oh so sexy lips are nice, but go for English first, let the other stuff come later.

So how do you suggest you will get to know the lady and possibly progress the relationship if you cannot speak and communicate with her in some language you both speak? Sign language? Do you speak any Russian? A slate and chalk so you can both draw pictures? 10 buck an hour interpreter? Will the terp feel a bit uncomfortable in bed with the two of you. That is if you can get that far?

[Gator]

Not sharing the same language means that more time should be taken before deciding about marriage.  Both of you will need the patience of Job because you will have many misunderstandings.  At first you can not have serious conversations.  You can not have intimate conversations about emotions and feelings.  Making a decision together is very difficult.  Heck, it is almost impossible to convey a joke or order food in a restaurant.  The only films you can watch are those with subtitles.

In my mind, the woman must be very special to warrant the extra time and frustration inherent in such dating.  However, if you have the time and patience, do not let a language barrier stand in the way. 

WARNING:  don't fill in the blanks with assumptions.

[kbluck]

The real question is whether you both feel you are communicating well enough (in whatever pidgin you can come up with) to move forward with a relationship. Different couples will have different standards on this score. Some people are very good at expressing themselves and understanding meaning even without a strong command of the language, and can seem to have conversations with almost anybody anywhere; others will not understand somebody at all if there is even a slight accent or unfamiliar turn of phrase. We've probably all met people on both ends of this spectrum. Know thyself.

So, I disagree that it is necessarily important that the woman already be proficient in English. If you can find one who is, that's certainly a big plus. But frankly, there are very few such women, and even fewer that will readily understand normal idiomatic American English about any complicated subject (like your relationship.) School learning certainly won't qualify anybody for that sort of fluency. Really, only women who regularly work with foreigners have any likelihood of being truly fluent, and most of those will life in major cities where foreign companies do business. So, if strong English is a hard requirement for you, be prepared to be a lot more selective. Don't even contact women not rated at the top of the scale. And even for those, don't believe they're really fluent until you've had a live, unscripted, unassisted conversation with them. And even then, be prepared for startling gaps in comprehension.

On the other hand, even if one is comfortable with a lesser degree of current skill in English, I do feel that one should strongly prefer a woman who is demonstrating a clear determination to learn some western language, most commonly English. I don't mean some limp effort with an old dictionary she leafs through every other Tuesday. I mean a serious, committed program of study where she spends significant amounts of her own time and money and makes steady progress.

I think so because emigration is hard. I fear most women listed on agencies and personals sites really have no idea what they're getting into. The problem at hand is that altogether too many women are simply not prepared for success. They have no evil motivations. In fact, they hardly have any motivations at all. All they have is a vague fantasy of living some Hollywood dream life. "Why not, let's see what happens" is a very common attitude. They haven't thought the whole thing through. Very often they don't really think anything will come of it in the first place. That's a recipe for disaster if things start moving fast with some foreign man.

There is no skill more basic to success than being able to speak the language, so if she is serious about learning that language she has likely given serious thought to all the issues. That's a good thing. Women who live in a fantasy world imaging that everything will just magically come together when the right man comes along, in my experience, don't do well when the culture shock hits. Culture shock and homesickness is a marriage-killer. You'll want a self-starter who is inclined to attack problems constructively, rather than lie down and give up like most people.

--- Kevin

[Faux Pas]

The real question is whether you both feel you are communicating well enough (in whatever pidgin you can come up with) to move forward with a relationship. Different couples will have different standards on this score. Some people are very good at expressing themselves and understanding meaning even without a strong command of the language, and can seem to have conversations with almost anybody anywhere; others will not understand somebody at all if there is even a slight accent or unfamiliar turn of phrase. We've probably all met people on both ends of this spectrum. Know thyself.

So, I disagree that it is necessarily important that the woman already be proficient in English.

Kevin, I believe differently from you on this subject and naturally my belief is based on my experience. You obviously did something right passing the decade mark. How much english did your wife have?

[Tag-n-bag]

Do  A slate and chalk so you can both draw pictures?

ROTFLMAO

 

[Chicagoguy]

 A slate and chalk so you can both draw pictures?   
 
Almost. What we do is if it is an important longer conservation is email each other and use computer translation. Then we fill in the blanks. After 1 year and ESL plus total immersion we are much, much better. But this is not for the faint of heart.

[kievstar]

It also depends on the man's patience as to many men try to rush into marriage rather than taking 1-2 years of actual face time to get to know each other and marry her in her country.  You can speak the same language and still not understand each other.  British English and American English are very different and eventhough you think you both understand each other you probably do not unless you spend a lot of face time together. 

You will find that men who marry in her country have a lower divorce rate than men getting married in USA.  Why - a serious girl is not going to marry a fool in front of her family.  A non serious girl will marry a fool in front of his family. 

There is a reason there is a lot of arguments on this board as we all read and interpret English differently. You have some people who will dwell on one sentence out of 3 paragraphs.  Eventhough the sentence taken out of the paragraphs loses its meaning.  You also have many words that have different meanings depending on which part of the USA your from.  It gets even more complicated as hundreds of new words invented each year. 

[wicheese]

There is a reason there is a lot of arguments on this board as we all read and interpret English differently. You have some people who will dwell on one sentence out of 3 paragraphs.  Eventhough the sentence taken out of the paragraphs loses its meaning.  You also have many words that have different meanings depending on which part of the USA your from.  It gets even more complicated as hundreds of new words invented each year. 

This is so true as I know I have written things that made perfect sense in my head, but my written words confused or angered others.  In the context of my RW, she's a fluent English speaker but we still have misunderstandings because she's framing the conversation in how things are understood in Russia while I'm relating it to how things are understood in America. 

[Patagonie]

I think so because emigration is hard. I fear most women listed on agencies and personals sites really have no idea what they're getting into. The problem at hand is that altogether too many women are simply not prepared for success. They have no evil motivations. In fact, they hardly have any motivations at all. All they have is a vague fantasy of living some Hollywood dream life. "Why not, let's see what happens" is a very common attitude. They haven't thought the whole thing through. Very often they don't really think anything will come of it in the first place. That's a recipe for disaster if things start moving fast with some foreign man.

Absolutely true some of them imagine that is a fairly tale and they just as to climb to the red carpet and wait champaign. Let's see what happens, you are right is a very common attitude. But in life too a lot of people have no willing at all. Each mate needs to put a lot of willpower...

[Boethius]

I think comparing face to face communication with message boards is silly.  On message boards, one doesn't have the "cues" of body language and emphasis, nor can one interrupt to clarify a point.  People will generally clue in on what is relevant or interesting to them in a message, rather than the whole message.  That's not the case with face to face communication.

I highly doubt that where one marries is all that relevant in marital success rates.  It really boils down to the individuals involved and what motivates them.

[groovlstk]

I think so because emigration is hard. I fear most women listed on agencies and personals sites really have no idea what they're getting into. The problem at hand is that altogether too many women are simply not prepared for success. They have no evil motivations. In fact, they hardly have any motivations at all. All they have is a vague fantasy of living some Hollywood dream life. "Why not, let's see what happens" is a very common attitude. They haven't thought the whole thing through. Very often they don't really think anything will come of it in the first place. That's a recipe for disaster if things start moving fast with some foreign man.

Absolutely true some of them imagine that is a fairly tale and they just as to climb to the red carpet and wait champaign. Let's see what happens, you are right is a very common attitude. But in life too a lot of people have no willing at all. Each mate needs to put a lot of willpower...

I'd agree 100% with this, only I'd also add that the fantasy element and "what the hey, why not?" attitude is also present among a lot of men.

[kievstar]

Boethius check the marriage rates to K-1 and K-3 and than later divorce.  A significant difference in USA. 

[Boethius]

I am fairly certain the US doesn't maintain such statistics.  Moreover, even if they did, that would include a huge number of expats marrying women from their own countries (Mexicans, Southeast Asians), far more than FSU marriages, and I imagine those marriages tend to last.

[kievstar]

Boethius, they track all of it.  Your a Canadian citizen and how would you be able to enter a USA immigration department and see this information.  You can not.   

[Shadow]

Kievstar, perhaps you forgot to take a look at the Survey report to at least have a sample of statistical data.

If you have further data, perhaps you can show it ?

[Boethius]

Boethius, they track all of it.  Your a Canadian citizen and how would you be able to enter a USA immigration department and see this information.  You can not.  

Almost all US government information is available online.  US citizenship, or even residency, is not required to read online documents.  The US government has stated in the past it doesn't keep these statistics.  Divorce if granted at the state, not the federal level.  Has that changed in the past 3 years or so?

The number of K3's done for FSUW, in the overall "grand scheme" of things, is negligible.  I believe I did see (and at one time, link) a US report on the number of K1's and K3's granted which was broken down by country.  The Phillipines had the highest number of K3's, dwarfing all the others. Mexico also had a larger number than all the FSU.

[OlgaH]

Almost all US government information is available online.  

and Homeland Security publishes its statistics
http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/immigration.shtm

But I doubt they will maintain records of divorces as you said its not their level and field either.

2008 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2008/ois_yb_2008.pdf

U.S. Legal Permanent Residents: 2009
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/lpr_fr_2009.pdf 

[kbluck]

How much english did your wife have?

Her conversational English was very poor at the beginning. Her initial letters to me were entirely in Russian. (Handwritten in cursive script, no less.) I probably could not have developed the relationship with her if I didn't meet her halfway by reading/speaking some Russian. I spoke Russian about as well as she spoke English, but the use of both languages seemed to have a synergistic effect that turned our respective poor skills into decent communication. We could almost always understand each other well enough in one language or the other, sometimes both in the same sentence. The dictionary was always at hand (Oxford paperback pocket edition for portability) and sometimes writing things down helped. We were together non-stop for almost three weeks when I visited (I was staying with her in her family's house) and that was probably instrumental, as we both developed the skill for understanding what the other wanted to say without needing the entire sentence or even when using the "wrong" words. We had developed something resembling an idioglossia by the end of the visit; very likely a third party listening to us would have had only a vague idea what we were talking about. We used an interpreter only once, and that was only to facilitate "the talk" with her dad who spoke no English whatsoever.

Obviously, this all worked out because of our specific personal natures and circumstances. I certainly can't recommend this approach as a general one-size-fits-all "best practice". But nevertheless, for guys who know what they want, have some experience dealing with non-English-speakers, some proficiency with learning foreign languages themselves, and who feel up to the challenge and are ready to work hard, poor English need not be a disqualifying factor.

I will hasten to add that there is much wishful thinking on this subject from both sides, and that neither the man nor the woman should fool themselves into believing language will not be a problem. It will, even under the best of circumstances. But to a certain extent, *knowing* that communication will be difficult might actually make things easier, in the sense that it puts you into the correct frame of mind up front. The trick here is fighting through the haze and achieving real communication by hook or crook, rather than just settling for non-communication and hoping everything will work out.

I'd also add that the fantasy element and "what the hey, why not?" attitude is also present among a lot of men.

True enough, but this is largely a self-resolving problem as men with the "why not" attitude are rarely prepared to exert the effort to proceed to the point of marriage or even travel. They may annoy some ladies with their prattle, but that's about it.

Ladies who sign up cavalierly and never give it a further thought, on the other hand, may actually find themselves face-to-face with a guy proposing marriage. And they may actually accept in the same "why not" spirit.

-- Kevin