Almost-total newbie here ...

[veritas]

Kevin,

Joanna put aside, tell us your your marriage.

Were you able to be an adequate "husband" for your wife? How long were you married and why did you divorce?

This will be necessary in order to try to answer your question.

Fair enough, pit bull, but get ready for another long story ..........................................................

(Is there any other KIND? )   To be continued in a few here .....................................................

(Hey, I don't mind!  It's Saturday night! )

[Misha]

Kevin, Joanna clearly had plenty of her own issues. Three years was way too long to obsess over her. Pitbull is right. What about your marriage? That is what is more meaningful.

[veritas]

OK, about my marriage ...

I was 28, and Christina was 24, when we met -- both virgins, both with EXTREMELY limited experience ...

We met at a 1992 Super Bowl "party" (just 4 of us), hosted by my co-worker Bob and his wife Bambi,
who was Christina's best friend ... It was basically a "setup" -- Bob worked with ME, Bambi had a FRIEND, etc. ...
Seemed like a decent match to them at the time -- we were both NICE, kind, honest, faithful, helpful, etc. etc. etc ...

I wasn't really particularly "attracted" to her, but she seemed nice enough ... She was the (lower-intellect) "baby"
of a family that had two older, very bright, very PROTECTIVE sons ... She called me at work the next Friday and
asked me out -- to Universal Studios -- and I was delighted to say yes ...

So we hit it off nicely enough ... She was MORE timid -- first date notwithstanding -- and MORE quiet than I ...
And we were both serious, thoughtful, considerate, and above all, NICE ... (Read: "sappy") ... It was the first
real relationship for either of us, and we were "head over heels" ... She showed me all the wonders of the Disney
resorts, and I was an honest and true gentleman with her (naturally!) ... Her family much approved -- at FIRST ...

(To be continued) ..........................................

[veritas]

Within a month or so, we were kissing; with two months, we were "making out" everywhere;
and by mid-May, we first had sex at my apartment, SHE being more of the "aggressor" there ...
And she spent the night there with me ...

Well, her family FLIPPED OUT about that when she didn't come home to her brother's house
that night, and soon EVERYONE knew that their precious "Chrissy" (the protected baby) had
CLEARLY been "taken for a ride" by this new SCOUNDREL "Kevin" ... (This had happened to her
once before, without the sex) ... And so they didn't trust me AT ALL anymore ... And they put
Christina through HELL asking her, "Is he good to you?" "Does he hit you?" "Is he trying to take
advantage of you?", etc. ... And we supported each other throughout -- we were "in love" and
writing crazy poems, saying crazy things, etc. ... But we thought we were "meant for each other" ...

The pressure began to build from her family for us to get MARRIED and LEGITIMATIZE this "den of
iniquity" ... (My words -- they weren't religious) ... Well, I LOVED her and all (I thought), but I sure
did NOT like pressure from her family!!!  And I really, REALLY resented the fact that THEY didn't trust ME --
"Mr. Gentleman", "Mr. Honorable" ... Of ALL the people in the world NOT to TRUST!!!  It really made me SICK!!!

TBC ..........................................

[veritas]

Anyway, cut to the chase:

Under EXTREME pressure from her family -- and with MANY misgivings -- I proposed to her
at Disney on January 28, 1993: one year to the date we first met ... She was SO THRILLED!!!
She REALLY, REALLY LOVED me!!!  And guess what?  NOW her family were my best BUDDIES!!!!
But I never forgave them for doubting my intentions -- and my HONOR ... I remained COLD to them ...

We got married on May 15, 1993, in a 100-year-old church nestled in oaks and Spanish Moss ...
We were HAPPY -- for almost 4 months ... And THEN my FATHER died, at age 53, of Type I diabetes ...

I was DEVASTATED, but NOT because I much cared for him ... (I'd moved 1000 miles away at age 17) ...

No, it was the GIGANTIC, FUCKING, DISASTROUS MESS of his HOUSE and ESTATE that he left for ME to deal with ...
I now mark his death as the "beginning of the end" of our marriage -- not even 4 months old, with me turning 30 ...

(TBC) ..........................................................................

[veritas]

(And now I'm starting to cry ... Please forgive me) ...

He died in his sleep -- alone -- in his house in New Jersey, where I grew up with him ...
When the three of us -- his 80-year-old mother, Christina, and I -- stepped into his house,
we found a DISASTER of EPIC PROPORTIONS ... Papers and boxes stacked KNEE-HIGH to WAIST-HIGH,
COVERING the house, with just a small PATH to walk through ... It was a FUCKING NIGHTMARE!!!  His
own mother took ONE look inside and said, "He was a sick, SICK man" ... FOOD wrappers, paper BAGS,
BOXES, PAPERS -- you could barely get through the HOUSE!!!  Covering half of his BED, ALL floor and
table surfaces, stacked high, high, HIGH!!!  A FUCKING NIGHTMARE!!!

We worked on that house for TWO SOLID WEEKS, 8-10 hour days, the three of us (Grandma with her inhaler) ...
On the FIRST DAY, I took out to the curb 70 -- SEVENTY -- bursting 30-gallon trash bags ... And we'd just
STARTED to scratch the surface ...

TBC .......................................................................... ....................

[Jumper]

Kevin- Since you are sharing..may i ask,

*why* did you have misgivings to marry her?

(just seems you two were in love, meant to be together ,supportive of each other... etc)
i'm merely curious

[veritas]

Among his BILLIONS of papers -- he was a BRILLIANT pension actuary (usually UNEMPLOYED),
and he knew the U.S TAX LAW inside out -- we found every kind of FRAUD you can imagine ...
FORGERY -- including MY signature -- TAX fraud, INSURANCE fraud, WELFARE fraud, POSTAL
fraud, TRUST fraud -- you NAME it!!!  He was a LIAR, a THIEF, a CON ARTIST, a FORGER ...
He'd even set up a company in MY NAME -- "KLT Limited" (my 3 initials) -- and I had NO
FUCKING CLUE!!!  (All FORGED, of course)  Given enough time, he would have been forging
CHRISTINA'S name, TOO!!!  So it was a DAMN GOOD THING that he died when he did, before
it could get even worse ...

And *I* was the one who had to (somehow) CLEAN UP and MAKE SENSE of this disaster ...
As his chosen executor of his estate -- AND sole beneficiary (about half a million bucks) --
*I* had to somehow RESOLVE all this FRAUD and COLLECT the FUNDS from a BAZILLION
different banks, stock companies, and the like ... He COULDN'T have just "2", or "3", or "10" ...

To say that my father "squeezed each penny till it BLED" would be a COMPLIMENT!!!
He squeezed miniscule FRACTIONS of pennies ... He was all about money, money, MONEY!!!

TBC .....................................................


AJ -- I wasn't sure that *I* was really mentally healthy enough to marry .. And also the VAST intelligence gap ...

[veritas]

Well, my STRICT "code of honor" (and honesty) collided MASSIVELY with all of this FRAUD!!!
I had to collect the 100 or so sources of funds SOMEHOW, but I had to do it HONESTLY ...
And I'm a total OCD perfectionist about everything, too ...

I became CONSUMED with "doing this estate PERFECTLY RIGHT" ... I documented EVERYTHING,
I copied EVERYTHING, I accounted for EVERYTHING -- right down to the PENNY, out of hundreds
of thousands of DOLLARS ... I was utterly CONSUMED with bringing ORDER and HONOR to this estate ...
I went through, and ordered, bajillions of statements, documents, everything I could find that seemed
relevant ... And I SLOOOOOWLY collected -- piece by fucking PIECE -- about $500,000 ... I was using
ALL the resources at work to do this (my managers knew and accepted this), I was spending NIGHTS,
WEEKENDS, practically around-the-clock ... And NOT-so-slowly -- but SURELY -- I was being CRUSHED ...
My probably-genetic propensity for DEPRESSION was now kicking in -- BIG-TIME ...

TBC .......................................................................... ...........

[veritas]

I desperately needed some HELP with this estate -- I was also working full-time --
so I called on Christina to do much of the simple-minded "leg work" involved, going
through boxes, etc. ... (BTW, we bought this house in January 1994, several months
after my father's death) ... The BOXES and the ESTATE were starting to INVADE the
house ... (AND, I'm a "compulsive hoarder", TOO -- just like my FATHER -- although
my house isn't anywhere NEAR as bad ... BUT -- left unchecked -- it COULD be ...
After all, I'm 46 now, and he died at 53 -- 7 more YEARS) ...

Anyway, *I* transferred some -- a LOT -- of MY massive stress onto CHRISTINA ...
Good times at Disney became rare -- it was all estate, estate, ESTATE ... We were
BOTH cracking under the pressure, but especially ME ... I started being sarcastic and
unpleasant, she reacted in kind (though less so), and a HUGE wedge was being driven
between us -- by the COLOSSAL stress of the ESTATE, and by my SANITY seemingly
hanging by a THREAD ... Depression, anxiety, etc. started to rule the day ...

TBC .......................................................................... ............

[veritas]

And then, in 1995, it happened -- the second HUGE blow to our marriage,
and in retrospect, NOT unrelated ... Christina no longer had much of an
"ally" in me -- because MY sanity seemed sorely at risk (I was also losing
weight steadily, until I reached about 130 pounds in 1999 -- at 6' 1") ...

So I guess she started looking ELSEWHERE for support, and she FOUND it --
in EXTREME religion ... "Benny Hinn" (you can look him up), "Fundamentalist",
"Pentecostal", "speaking in tongues", "faith healing", "Spirit singing" (CREEPY!!!),
"visions from God", etc. etc. etc. ...

Common things that we used to enjoy became "evil" -- rock music was "evil",
HALLOWEEN was "evil", dancing was "evil", and premarital sex was "evil" -- so
she disavowed our sex before marriage as "sinful" ... Our next-door neighbor,
who got her INTO all of this (Benny Hinn), baptized her in her POOL ... And
Christina, under the strong influence of "Patricia", came to believe that *I*
was "evil" and -- LITERALLY -- "demon-possessed" ... Among MANY other
things, she wrote about ME:

"The demons in him are screaming and being squeezed"!!!

TBC ...............................................................

[veritas]

You can SEE now where this is headed:

*I* was severely depressed, working like a (HONEST) DOG on my father's totally FRAUDULENT estate ...
*SHE* had found extremist religion, and considered ME "demon-possessed" instead of just "UNKIND" ...

(NO physical abuse, or name-calling, or shouting, or violence, etc. ... SARCASM, SNIDENESS, lack of
SUPPORT for her, lack of RESPECT for her, lack of -- LOVE FOR HER??  I don't really KNOW anymore) ...

SHE now wanted desperately to have CHILDREN -- partly the "religion thing" -- but we'd agreed
(I thought!!!) BEFORE getting engaged that *I* would never WANT children -- legacy of my father ...

*I* lost my job in 1996 -- corporate layoff/merger -- but that was COOL, because *I* had $500,000
in the bank, AND it took some of the pressure off me ... But then I made HER find a job (supermarket)
so we could have health insurance, AND so I wouldn't hafta be around her at home 24/7 now ...

TBC ...

[veritas]

THE FINAL STRETCH: (1997-1999)

I was home now, unemployed and STILL working on the estate -- depressed, unkind, crushed, LOSIN' IT ...

She was bagging groceries for a job and spending all her free time with PATRICIA (next door) and RELIGION ...

I really, honestly believed that I was going to DIE as part of "God's plan" for her to remarry and have children ...
(Neither of us believed in divorce) ... And BTW, *I* grew up with "extreme religion" MYSELF -- legacy of my father --
but *I* had rejected it once I moved away from him, and HER "extreme religion" was very much like what I'd cast OFF ...
So I REALLY would have "none of it"!!!

We fought bitterly, we cried bitterly, she wished she'd never married such an "evil" man, she wanted kids, I didn't ...
I ridiculed her "religion", she "spoke in tongues" and had "visions from God" (e.g., Jesus in our living room) ...

She even had ME convinced that I was "evil" and "demon-possessed" ... Now *I* had no support at home ...

I was *snip*ing losing my MIND and becoming EMACIATED ... She wanted a divorce AFTER all ... I said, "OK!!!!!!!!!!"

The "nominal" reasons for our divorce:

(1) religion
(2) children

... but there was SO much more -- my father's FRAUD, my depression and OCD, my unkindness, her "evil-thinking" ...

Sigh ... Y'all can see what happened ... When my father died, we were BOTH "beaten down" and we BOTH "cracked" ...

Kevin

P.S.  And now I think I'll have a good cry ...

[pitbull]

Kevin,

I will give you my honest opinion, please note that I think you are an honest and decent person, BUT, based on what you have revealed,

You are burdened and damaged with a NUMBER of disorders of psychological (and possibly psychiatric) nature that render you UNABLE and UNFIT to enter and maintain a long relationship let alone marriage.

I believe you have NO BUSINESS in dating FSUW (and frankly dating overall), and you should take off your EM profile. AT BEST you will waste some sincere woman (or women's) time, AT WORST you will SCREW UP the life of some unsuspecting nice FSUW (which this whole MOB process allows rather easily). You putting up your profile on EM looking for a partner is simply WRONG and UNFAIR to these women.

Sincerely,
Pitbull

[facetrock]

I agree Pitbull. Kevin you need to get your internal house in order before you try to pursue a Russian woman. Not fair to her or you if you not mentally healthy.

[veritas]

Kevin,

I will give you my honest opinion, please note that I think you are an honest and decent person, BUT, based on what you have revealed,

You are burdened and damaged with a NUMBER of disorders of psychological (and possibly psychiatric) nature that render you UNABLE and UNFIT to enter and maintain a long relationship let alone marriage.

I believe you have NO BUSINESS in dating FSUW (and frankly dating overall), and you should take off your EM profile. AT BEST you will waste some sincere woman (or women's) time, AT WORST you will SCREW UP the life of some unsuspecting nice FSUW (which this whole MOB process allows rather easily). You putting up your profile on EM looking for a partner is simply WRONG and UNFAIR to these women.

Sincerely,
Pitbull

All RIGHTY then ... Thanks for understanding ...

BTW, I'm more than just a "decent" person ...  I'm a terrific person!

[Jooky]

Kevin,

I just read your Joanna story.

You do realize that you rejected her, right? It's not the other way around.

You say:

And when I naturally kept to my own side of the bed

Nothing natural about it. She laid it all out there for you and you kept rejecting it. This woman must have been extremely frustrated.

Folks, I ask you -- WHAT was I to THINK??

Nothing. You were supposed to act. That's the problem with computer progammer types that think too much. (I'm one as well, so I know).

You say you fear rejection. It sounds like you've never even experienced it!

'Rejection' is just selection and it's a good thing.

[veritas]

Thanks, Jooky ... But her ACTIONS were not in concert with her WORDS ...

I asked my female friends at the time what they thought of all this, and
they all agreed, "LISTEN TO WHAT SHE IS *SAYING* MORE THAN TO WHAT SHE IS *DOING*" ...

So I DID ...

Kevin

[veritas]

This is from a 2006 e-mail that I wrote to my best friend Leslie (female, obviously)
about Joanna ... Every one of my female friends agreed about this "10% / 90%":
____________________________________________________________________


And then at some point late in the conversation, maybe 3:30-ish,
she said for some reason that made sense in context, "Well, you're
very handsome", to which I replied, "Well, thank you -- and you're quite
gorgeous" ... And then THAT led to her to say, "BUT -- I'm afraid to get
involved with you, afraid that you're holding back, etc., that you make
excuses and act like a weenie sometimes, etc., that you're not strong
enough" and stuff like that ...

....

BUT MAINLY -- like you said on the phone yesterday -- Yes, I absolutely
am listening to WHAT SHE SAYS about not wanting to get involved with me
as more than just a friend and will be proceeding on the notion that that stuff
OVERRIDES anything else she may say or do, no matter how confusing or
conflicting it may seem ... Not that it makes much practical difference, really,
because I wouldn't be coming on to her anyway -- for the other reasons that
I already stated -- so she's really totally in the driver's seat when it comes
to our level of contact ... But anyway, I'll simply accept what level of contact
she offers -- whether it seems to be in keeping with her stated intentions
or not (e.g., cuddling, snuggling, sex talk, stuff like that, whatever might
or might not transpire) -- and not "expect" more from her, because I'm
LISTENING TO THE 10% OF THE TIME that she says that she's afraid
to get involved with me and realizing that that seems to override the
90% OF THE TIME that she talks and acts (in my perception) as if
that weren't really the case ...
 
Such as when she told me, just before signing off last night, that I should
lie in bed before crashing for the night and read the "E.S.O." book in bed
and call her late at night and describe to her exactly what she needs
to do to achieve it -- vaguely reminiscent of phone sex or whatever ...
 

[facetrock]

Kevin, drama is a disease. You need to go get cured.

[veritas]

One last quote from that same 2006 e-mail:
____________________________________

Actually, although I'd have no trouble "falling into" something with her if she
were to initiate it -- and in fact it would take some real strength on my part
to resist something like that if it were ever to happen -- I gotta say that what
will certainly keep ME from initiating anything with her -- beyond the fact that
I'm rather timid that way in the first place AND that she keeps repeating that
she doesn't wanna mess up our friendship by getting involved, etc. etc. etc.
and that she's afraid of my inertia/excuses/etc. .. Anyway, even BEYOND
all of that -- even if none of that were present, and I weren't naturally timid
that way, and she were perfectly willing and made that clear, yada yada yada --
I gotta say that I'd still be leery of getting involved with her BECAUSE, with all
the various sex talk I've heard from her, I realize that she talks and acts like
her sexual standards are QUITE high and makes it clear that she's had
a LOTTA sex and knows EXACTLY what she wants and that the next
guy she gets involved with will be on the heels of a long, long string
of lovers with whom he is to be compared, etc. .. (She didn't say it
that way at all, but to me, that's the gist of it) ... And frankly, that's an
awful lot to live up to -- her expectations that way, her "bar", seems
to be set pretty damn high, and the way she talks, I'd be leery myself
of not "measuring up" to her expectations (I toldja on the phone that she
asked me if I was a "good lover" and I just brushed it off with "So I'm told") ...
_______________________________________________________________

You reply just came in, facetrock ... Sorry, but I don't get it?

Kevin

[facetrock]

Drama is a disease. You dont get that? You should get it because ever since you showed up here its been one big Kevin drama fest. Seems that no matter what thread your involved in it always comes back to Kevin and his problems. I honestly think you thrive on all your problems and the attention they get you. People gave you good advice to start with but you still want to keep the Kevin ball rolling so now your posting emails from 2006.WTF?
  If your like this in real life you need to get help. Like Pitbull said you dont need a profile on EM or anywhere else for that matter.
 

[Gator]

Kevin,

What do you feel after revealing so much of your history?

Self-pity?  Or do you feel somewhat better?

Have you seen any improvement in your mental well being over the past four years?

You say "no children."  Why?

Why do you continue to blame your father?   Are you blaming his gene pool?  While you may have inherited some of his brain chemistry, it seems that you have inherited some of his intellect. 

Blaming your father is the same as an athletic yet short person blaming his athletic father, who is also short, for not being able to excel at basketball.  Yet, he can still play basketball and enjoy the game. 

Blame yourself.  Fix yourself.

[veritas]

People gave you good advice to start with

And I'm FOLLOWING it ... That's all been written here ...

If your like this in real life you need to get help.

And I'm GETTING it ... That's all been written here ...

Like Pitbull said you dont need a profile on EM or anywhere else for that matter.

And I'm AGREEING with that ... That's all been written here ...

Anything else? 

Kevin

P.S.  Perhaps you should just "ignore my posts" ... Seriously ...

[veritas]

What do you feel after revealing so much of your history?

Self-pity?  Or do you feel somewhat better?

Actually, I feel somewhat better ...

Have you seen any improvement in your mental well being over the past four years?

In the past year or so, yes ...

You say "no children."  Why?

Because I won't make the same mistake my father made ...

Why do you continue to blame your father?   Are you blaming his gene pool?  While you may have inherited some of his brain chemistry, it seems that you have inherited some of his intellect. 

I've said that in all fairness, he was very mentally ILL -- not "bad" or "evil" ...

Blame yourself.  Fix yourself.

I do, and I am ...

Kevin