DM questions

[facetrock]

  Is DM a legit agency. Depends on what you mean by legit. They serve a purpose. Most men just like to chat and fantasize in front of their computer while whacking off to the web cam. So for those guys that just dream of making a trip but never will it keeps them occupied and entertained. If finding a beautiful Russian woman was as easy as they pretend there would hardly be any women left in Russia by now.
  Now it is possible to find a woman through DM and AWEB but I think it would be very hard to do over the net. There is a guy here named Kievstar that would go right to their office when he lived in Ukraine. I would think that would be your best bet. Skip all the phoney cam crap.
   I equate agencys like that to the World Wrestling Federation. Almost everyone that watches it knows its fake, but they still love to watch it. Kind of a fantasy trip for them.
   
   Its good your going through EM now. Remember, these girls wont wait forever for you to make a trip. Make a plan to travel before you start communicating with a bunch of ladys. Also make sure you can afford this project from start to finish. Figure at least 20k, more if she has a rugrat. Good luck.

[Misha]

Sage wisdom there Gator.  The ladies in those photos are not available to men of average means anyway.  Any man on this forum or in the west who thinks girl of that level of beauty and boldness are not surrounded by extremely wealthy Russian men ready and willing to indulge them in fur and caviar is really off the mark.

Attractive, sure. Exceptionally attractive? Not certain about that. They simply have quality studio photos that do a good job at highlighting the women's "assets." There were many women on mamba that were just as attractive and many more in real life that were no worse than the three women noted above. Also, there are only so many extremely wealthy Russian men and many, many more attractive women than men women to indulge them in fur and caviar  :evil:   

[Boethius]

There are also local men who are not wealthy chasing those girls.  They have advantages foreign men don't have - they're local, they're usually as attractive as the girls, and they are the same age as the girls.

[facetrock]

Decent 35 year old guys chasing 35 year old girls with kids Boethius? Everything I have seen and heard over there says it doesnt happen often.
The good 35 year old guys seem far more interested in the 25 year old gals with no kids.

[Boethius]

I was referring to the women in his photos.  They were all in their twenties.

However, beautiful women have advantages everywhere, including Ukraine.  My husband's cousin, who is very beautiful, just had her third child, at age 40.  She had 2 other children when she met her current husband, a Ukrainian, a little more than a year ago.

[facetrock]

  One of those girls was 34   I am not saying it doesnt happen but like I said everything I have seen and heard tells me if the woman is over 35 with a kid or two it gets very hard for her to find a decent guy her age. However, I have been told they dont have trouble finding 50 year old guys

[Misha]

There are also local men who are not wealthy chasing those girls.  They have advantages foreign men don't have - they're local, they're usually as attractive as the girls, and they are the same age as the girls.

There are many very attractive 25 to 30 year-old women, as attractive as the three here, who are looking on mamba and elsewhere. The reason why they were still looking: they could not find any decent men. If my wife had found a decent, attractive man in Russia, same age as her when she was looking, she would not have turned him down. Fortunately for me, such men were not chasing her  :evil:

[Boethius]

However, I have been told they dont have trouble finding 50 year old guys

HAHA.  Yes, from the West.  Good 50 year old men in Ukraine are usually married, though there are exceptions.

There are many very attractive 25 to 30 year-old women, as attractive as the three here, who are looking on mamba and elsewhere. The reason why they were still looking: they could not find any decent men. If my wife had found a decent, attractive man in Russia, same age as her when she was looking, she would not have turned him down. Fortunately for me, such men were not chasing her  

Sometimes they can't find a decent man.  Sometimes, they are women local men would never consider for marriage.  

It's a two way street.

[facetrock]

 Well if its all the same to you Boethius I will keep my fantasy of a good looking 35 year old even though I am 50
I dont have a problem with kids either
And one more thing what the hell does  "Boethius" mean anyway.

[kievstar]

Agencies will provide free professional modelling shoots for attractive girls which the girls get to keep the photos as well.  All the girl has to do is to agree to let the agency use the photos.  This is why many girls are in bathing suits and sexy lingerie.  There not all whores.  This is typical for the girls under 25 years old who really are not serious in foreign men but attractive enough to get the agencies attention.  A good photo shoot can be $400 usd for the girls.  So when they get it free they like it.  Now when you see women over 26 years old with photos that are very sexy best to stay away.  There is a reason men would be wise to stick to women over 26 years old.  

Can you meet these girls if you show up (under 25 and sexy photos).  Maybe but most have boyfriends whether local or foreign but the agency likes the revenue from their photos.  However these girls change boyfriends alot and depending on timing of visit may meet them.  Many times these girls tell the agency to screen the men as they want a big catch.  

Besides Jack has anyone on this board really hungout with agency owners or workers in Ukraine.  When I mean hanging out I mean eating dinner in there house with their families.  When you find out how they really work you will realize best to visit rather than write an agency.  

Agencies make there money by having women people want to write.  Many men like the young women.  Many men write.  So they run there business for the letter writers.  

[Misha]

Sometimes they can't find a decent man.  Sometimes, they are women local men would never consider for marriage.  

Yes, and in Russia it is much easier finding women falling under the first category. However, there are plenty of the second kind as well if one is incapable of telling the difference.

[kievstar]

Boethius - is a very famous man from the 6th century.  

[Sculpto]

Every locality in the FSU if going to have variations on the theme.

My recent trip was to St P.  What I saw there was girls with very very high self esteem, deserved or not, were cold as ice and were certainly not going to talk to an average guy on the street let alone on the internet.  There were tons of girls only slightly less beautiful but who didn't walk with that certain swagger that were very approachable..

That is the distinction I am trying to make.

The so called high self esteem girls WILL make studio photos of a artistic and erotic nature just to stroke their own egos.. and they will still not be available.  

Normal girls who are just as pretty but without caviar dreams (fantasies) will have normal photos, which if they are bold might include a bikini shot from their trip to Krim or Hurgada.

Anyway.. I have also heard from a large number of those so called "high self esteem" girls that they "know their worth" and will not settle for anything less.

My opinion is the girls on agency sites that have such an appearance are, if they are even slightly sincere, fishing for pro athletes, millionaires and other such "players" that are not represented by the typical member of the forum or for that matter agency sites in general.

Buyer beware!

[Sculpto]

Kiev is right..

Misha.. Western men, especially Americans and Canadians, are not gods gift to women to be sure.  YOU might be an exception.. a lot of the guys on the forum might be EXCEPTIONS.. but.. have a look at the womens portal I posted for AWeb and take a look at the men...

A lot of FSUWs will do just fine sticking to local men compared with the high quality offerings they get on agency sites.

So.. we are back to the "exceptional" discussion again.  Many guys are always harping on finding the exceptional girl.. "lots of bad girls in the FSU.. find the special one".. so.. doesn't it stand to reason the same dynamics and standards should apply for FSUWs looking west?

[veritas]

Now when you see women over 26 years old with photos that are very sexy best to stay away.  There is a reason men would be wise to stick to women over 26 years old.

Huh?  Am I missing something here? 

Agencies make there money by having women people want to write.  Many men like the young women.  Many men write.  So they run there business for the letter writers.

Thanks, kievstar ... I've figured that out by now, after spending $50-$80 writing letters on D-M (months ago) ...

Kevin

[Sculpto]

$50-$80

LOL..

Anyone here that has spent more?  I burned $1400 on HRB..

[facetrock]

Sculpto. I think thats the reason why the success rate is so low. Both sides with unrealistic expectations. More so on the mens side.
Ever sit down and talk to an agency girl and hear some of the storys they can tell about western men?  God some can crack you up

[Misha]

Misha.. Western men, especially Americans and Canadians, are not gods gift to women to be sure.  YOU might be an exception.. a lot of the guys on the forum might be EXCEPTIONS.. but.. have a look at the womens portal I posted for AWeb and take a look at the men...

No, but a decent guy, with a good job, who is not a player, can find very attractive women. It just requires knowing how to find an attractive woman looking at average photos that are not studio photos.

A lot of FSUWs will do just fine sticking to local men compared with the high quality offerings they get on agency sites.

Some do, many don't.

[Misha]

Boethius - is a very famous man from the 6th century.  

Yes, a Christian martyr: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02610b.htm

[Sculpto]

Sculpto. I think thats the reason why the success rate is so low. Both sides with unrealistic expectations. More so on the mens side.
Ever sit down and talk to an agency girl and hear some of the storys they can tell about western men?  God some can crack you up

Yeah I have Facet.. I am actually in correspondence now with one I met on a social site.. not a love interest but she is investigating some things for me.. but she has told me some absolutely SHOCKING stories.. I mean she is an employee at an agency.. I found her in a thread about "whats better to live.. Russia or USA?"

When I hear stuff like that.. its no wonder the ahppy shiny has worn off international marriages for a lot of FSUWs...

Also.. there are some threads on expat forums that cover this issue as well..

[facetrock]

 What I've learned about photos Misha is this. With glamour shots you can usually deduct 2 points on a scale of 10 in real life. Regular photos if you look closely you can find a very beautiful woman hidden in a bad picture and will surprise the hell out of you in real life.
 

[kievstar]

The women over 26 years old with sexy photos and lingerie photos tend to be more of the gold digger or hooker.  

Young girls see nothing wrong with fancy photo shoots.  There also not in a rush to get married.  Generally as women get to 26 years old there more mature and know what there looking for.  A serious woman over 26 years old looking for a good man for marriage whether rich or poor man is not going to use her sexy photos.  A foolish or non serious woman yes.  

But who wants to marry a foolish or non serious woman?  That is the problem.  Many foreign men do.  They see the photo and write 50 letters over a year than fly to visit and she is not available - visiting sick grandma.  The agency than lets the man pick more women which are out of his league and it is one big trainwreck / shopping trip.  One of these women will get this man to visit a second time and really milk him.  This is the typical story of the foreign man who visits.  This is not typical of a man who studies RWD before getting into this.

Do you homework and everything will work out if your a good man dating in his league.

[Misha]

What I've learned about photos Misha is this. With glamour shots you can usually deduct 2 points on a scale of 10 in real life.

I agree, and that is the best case scenario. Saw some decent photos when looking for women locally, and when we met the women weighed more than I did 

Regular photos if you look closely you can find a very beautiful woman hidden in a bad picture and will surprise the hell out of you in real life.

That is exactly what I found with my wife 

[veritas]

I burned $1400 on HRB..

Wow, Sculpto ... I guess I got off easy then -- so far ... 

BTW, Sculpto, I saw in another thread that you're no fan of "Jim" (agencyscams.com),
BUT -- like the poster who replied to you there -- "Jim's site" was the first real evidence
I found (when I first Google'd "Dream Marriage" and "scam", months ago) that there WAS,
in fact, very good REASON for my initial suspicions ...

Just sayin' ...

The women over 26 years old with sexy photos and lingerie photos tend to be more of the gold digger or hooker. 

Do you homework and everything will work out if your a good man dating in his league.

Thanks for the clarification, kievstar ...

Kevin

[Sculpto]

Kevin.. the problem with Jim is that his scam girl list is unfair.  And, once a girl gets on there its impossible for her to get off.. many girls with stolen photos have ended up on his site as have girls who were actually the victims of disappointed men who cried scammer when they didn't get the Mail Order Bride they paid for.
 
I don't have a big issue with his agency listings except for the fact there are persistent rumors he takes money from white or gold list agencies and sites...

of particular concern with Jim is his support for AFA which uses many of the same affiliate agencies that your DM site.  If you do some careful searching most likely you will be able to find the profiles on a variety of sites that are blacklisted and yet have the same profile listings as AFA.

I believe this forum gets a pretty low rating as well and that has more to do with Jim being called out for some of his less than scrupulous actions than any legit issue with RWD.  Anyway.. if you hang around long enough you will see our little community/sub culture has its own rules and heros and foes...

But everyone loves me!  really they do!!!  I never start trouble!!! 

Wow, Sculpto ... I guess I got off easy then -- so far ... 

BTW, Sculpto, I saw in another thread that you're no fan of "Jim" (agencyscams.com),
BUT -- like the poster who replied to you there -- "Jim's site" was the first real evidence
I found (when I first Google'd "Dream Marriage" and "scam", months ago) that there WAS,
in fact, very good REASON for my initial suspicions ...

Just sayin' ...

Thanks for the clarification, kievstar ...

Kevin