How much is "enough?" Do I have to be wealthy and established?

[JohnDearGreen]

There are a large number of sociopaths amongst the posters here.    

Brian,
There may be some sociopaths and perverts here, as you claim.  I wouldn't know.  You seem to enjoy the namecalling.

Bravegirl,
I only made $217 million USD last year. Recession years are slower for me. Would that qualify as an acceptable income for a AM?

I'm thinking about possibly moving to the FSU for six months or a year. I'd be a student while living there, all online. I could also work or volunteer part time. I am 26. What would be a good place to live? Say if I only had 10 or 15K to last me.
I'm looking for somewhere with a low cost of living...

[Enot2]

Introvert, don't listen to the guys that say it can't be done, it is difficult, or you need a minimum of $25 K for flights and travel.  A lot of bad info in this thread.

Depending on where you go, a plane ticket will cost $1000 to $1500.  Figure $100 a day for food and lodging.  So if you stay 2 weeks, your cost will be about $3000 at the most.  When you get back and find a woman you possibly what a relationship with, contact her EVERYDAY so she knows you are serious.  If she has a computer, use Skype to talk (it's free).  If she doesn't speak the language, then use e-mail and an online translator but still use Skype just to see each other and maybe teach her some English (if she has a computer that is). 

You should see her at least 1 more time and live together.  If you think she is the one and she doesn't have a computer, take netbook with you for her, they cost between $300 and $400.  You'll also need to buy her Internet access so you might want to take her a (Visa/Master Card) debit card.

Concentrate on the smaller cities (less than 200,000) in Russia or the Ukraine but I would try any city in Moldova, Belarus, or Uzbekistan.  This is where you will more likely find the less westernized younger women.

I will gladly guide you through your journey and even help with immigration papers if you so desire, just send me a message via this website.  It isn't as difficult as some of these people say.  It just takes a lot of time and patience ... and money which you have with a $50K salary.

[BC]

A lot of bad info in this thread.

Care to show where this bad info is?

[Enot2]

Care to show where this bad info is?

Most people say it can't be done or don't waste your time, how much it costs ('How much?  You will need 25-50k at least in savings for your trips and her trip and expenses."), and just bad onfo ("The wrong RW would not divorce you and instead milk you for years while preparing for her life without you.  My opinion is that many RW would have this mentality.")

[ECOCKS]

Introvert, don't listen to the guys that say it can't be done, it is difficult, or you need a minimum of $25 K for flights and travel.  A lot of bad info in this thread.

Yes, there is.

[Vaughn]

Most people say it can't be done or don't waste your time

MOST people say that ??  I'm reading carefully - and have to disagree. MOST people have suggested
and advisd patience, for good solid reasons: establishing himself before jumping feet first into the pool, and to allow a
relationship to develop - rather than to make hasty decisions under a veil of "decisiveness"...

You've failed to take note of encouraging posts, and assign sweeping negativity based on one or two opinions. There
is much wisdom in patience and financial planning. Haste can foil even the best of plans - suddenly grad school becomes
a tad more difficult when little ones begin to arrive... not to mention the guaranteed trials of multi-transition.

[Doll]

Concentrate on the smaller cities (less than 200,000) in Russia or the Ukraine but I would try any city in Moldova, Belarus, or Uzbekistan.  This is where you will more likely find the less westernized younger women.

What is wrong in 'westernized woman"?

[Boethius]

I think there is a perception that less "Westernized" women don't have opinions.

[Vaughn]

  ... and a "less westernized" woman would be more apt to submit to a marital rush job.

That's only my guess - only Enot2 can accurately elaborate - but I do think my guess has much merit.

[Gator]

If you are a good guy and treat a girl well, she should treat you like a King in return. If she doesn't...dump her.

I assume this is your plan.

What is your definition of treating a girl well?  I like the fact that you are not trying to buy love with money, yet it seems that you expect her to love you because all she wants is a good guy, something you are.

What is your definition of treating a woman well?

What is your defintion of being treated like a king?


When do you decide that she does not treat you like a king (first meeting, second meeting, arrival in America, year after marriage, ...)?

[Gator]

BrianW,

I am not trying to bust your balls.  You are about to take your first trip, and I believe your expectations will have much to do with whether you have a good time and find what you seek.

[Enot2]

MOST people say that ??  I'm reading carefully - and have to disagree. MOST people have suggested and advisd patience, for good solid reasons: establishing himself before jumping feet first into the pool, and to allow a relationship to develop - rather than to make hasty decisions under a veil of "decisiveness"...

Need more ....?

1.  "from what I have seen RW are looking for older "established" men"

2.  "Girls this age in FSU aren't very serious for relations with foreing guys and you can searching for long time unsuccessful."

3.  "you would be dating college girls who wont want to move or get married until they finish college."

4.  "The trouble with that is you will have about as much chance as hitting the jackpot in Las Vegas. It happens to some, but most who try lose out."

5.  "Wait till the eggs are all in your basket.  50K in 1 and 150K in 3 sound great but at this time consider what you currently have stashed away in savings.  Add a few months vacation or unpaid leave time on top of that.

Money and time.. all huge expenditures in this endeavor.

BTW, with the age range you are looking at, there is likely very little difference between FSU girls and US girls as far as their dreams go, and a student proly doesn't fit in quite right."

6.  "I started 4 years ago and in that time met quite a few women, some were quite incredible and some were just daters. A few I am still friends with and still see them when I am in town. I know maybe 2 men who have had success on a first or second trip and probably know of more than 50 who have taken multiple trips and are still looking for the right girl."

7.  "You sound like a total looser, no offense.   Better be ready to show the money! "

8.  "How much?  You will need 25-50k at least in savings for your trips and her trip and expenses.  Most college graduates do not have anywhere near that savings."

9.  "Translation: I have enough $ for a single, round-trip ticket to Russia or Ukraine"

10.  "RW for you?  Not now but perhaps later."

11.  "Yes indeed.  Especially so if we are considering the group of FSU women specifically targeting a foreign man (the same can be said for men specifically targeting foreign women).  There are certain character traits (and/or psychological disorders pertaining to relationships) which are dominant in this grouping.  It's a mine field (again IMO).  Go into it with a fast paced mentality and you're probably going to blow yourself up."

12.  "IntrovertedGuy, this endeavor really is much harder than you think.  In many ways dating in the FSU is easier.  However, Russian girls are less tolerant of weak men than American girls: the moment they think you're a wuss, you're done.  In addition, the costs add up and you can have a lot more trouble on the "back end" once you get here here."

[Gator]

I think there is a perception that less "Westernized" women don't have opinions.

She can have opinions.  Just don't voice them.  And she must agree to forget them if they conflict with her husband's opinions.  

You forgot something even more important than attitude about opinions:  smile when complying.

[Daveman]

Need more ....?

...

 
yes I do...now go through each of those and explain why it's bad information from your experience with FSUW.  If it's bad information it should be exposed as such. To expose it as as such is to also provide the "why", "how", etc. Simply stating "that's bad information" isn't enough.

[Enot2]

If you don't know what "less westernized" means then there is no reason for you to know or care.  I will say it is one of the reasons why I love my wife very much and would take her over a western woman any day.

[Enot2]

 
yes I do...now go through each of those and explain why it's bad information from your experience with FSUW.  If it's bad information it should be exposed as such. To expose it as as such is to also provide the "why", "how", etc. Simply stating "that's bad information" isn't enough.

I was answering Vaughn's question about people saying Introvert won't be successful or it wasn't worth his time doing it.  It has nothing to do with bad infomation.  Please read the entire thread before posting. 

[Misha]

So basically I'm a 22 year old graduate student and I'm looking for a wife.

This is the way to do it IMHO. Take a few months, a year is even best, and if you can, between grad studies and your job, take a break and go spend time in Russia or elsewhere in the FSU. Go teach English, go volunteer, go do anything that will allow you to live there and meet many young people, make friends and have a great time. Find something that will allow you to spend a long time in the country and will permit you a visa (for Russia) that will allow you a long stay in the country. Maybe it might entail being a student for an extra year.

In the process, you will meet many, many women. Don't put any pressure on you, simply meet women and eventually one will stand out and if you are nice, young and attractive young man, one will fall in love with you if you meet enough women. I can pretty much guarantee it. The challenge is simply to find a way to spend time there and meet a large number of young, single women. If you do it this way, you do not need to be wealthy and established. Russian young women, marry young Russian men who are neither all the time for love. They will do the same for the right foreigner   

[Shadow]

4.  "The trouble with that is you will have about as much chance as hitting the jackpot in Las Vegas. It happens to some, but most who try lose out."

As this was my statement, I challenge to show that making a single trip to the FSU to meet, propose and marry is actually something that has resulted in a majority of happy and long lasting marriages.
On the internet forums I have been a member of I know of only one person who managed to make this work a long time. If you have evidence to the contrary, I would be interested.

Regarding bad advice, seeking out small towns in the FSU is something for those who wish to gamble on economic disparity to compensate their shortcomings IMHO.
A young man who is making decent money would not need to use such a method, as he would be able to find enough interested women anywhere. Of course if he wish to date out of his league, he would need some extra leverage, however as indicated by others it is doubtful if that would work in the long run.

[Daveman]

I was answering Vaughn's question about people saying Introvert won't be successful or it wasn't worth his time doing it.  It has nothing to do with bad infomation.  Please read the entire thread before posting. 

Okay, then let's just deal with my post (speaking of reading the thread) show me where number 11. has anything at all to do with saying Introvert won't be successful.

[Vaughn]

I was answering Vaughn's question about people saying Introvert won't be successful or it wasn't worth his time doing it.  It has nothing to do with bad infomation.  Please read the entire thread before posting.  

Enot2, far be it for me to speak for Daveman, but it's quite apparent that should you take issue with advice, you
cry "Foul"....  so be it. Some newbies listen, and some never will. I broke a few Commandments myself in my day,
but items like "patience", "financial viability", "planning with respect to time and money" are all exceedingly important
to a WM who really desires to increase his odds of success. You and I may have done things differently - our way,
so to speak - but IMHO, it's hardly wise to preach "Hey - it CAN be done - quickly and cheaply" when in fact, the
history shows that throwing caution out the door turns the odds in favor of the House - not the Player.

Only #7 was truly a sordid post - my bet is that guy will never show his face here again... cannot even spell "loser" correctly...

Consider the source of these posts - WM with much time in service, many trips under their belts and
some who've been there and done that. Most significant was your rebuff to advice offered by Rina,
a genuinely perceptive Russian woman who definitely knows more about younger RW than you and me.

[Gator]

Enot2,

I read your examples of advice.  When taken in context, they do not invalidate Vaughn's overall conclusion.  In fact, they support Vaughn.

In your own words you say

It just takes a lot of time and patience ... and money which you have with a $50K salary.

Was this your path of "time and patience":

1.  Two weeks in a country with a lower standard of living than Ukraine and finding there a woman with whom you may be able to have relationship.
2.  Talking everyday via Skype and teaching her some English.
3.  A second visit in which you live together.
4.  Immigration.

Yes, it can be done.  Do the more experienced RWD members recommend it?  I think not.  Nevertheless, OWW (one week wonder) did it in even less time.  I am not sure where his wife is from

It is splendid that you are happily married.  I hope your house will continue to be filled with marital bliss, happy children, health and hot soup.

[Enot2]

Okay, then let's just deal with my post (speaking of reading the thread) show me where number 11. has anything at all to do with saying Introvert won't be successful.

Do you think that when you say you "will blow yourself up" means he will be successful?

[Daveman]

Do you think that when you say you "will blow yourself up" means he will be successful?

Yes I do, if he avoids stepping on something that will blow him up.  That's the key, is it not? Going in with open eyes.. for example -- not rationalizing away goofy behavior, etc etc... rationalization is but one of the land mines of the fast paced mentality.. so I reiterate... Go into it with a fast paced mentality and you're probably going to blow yourself up.

[Enot2]

Enot2, far be it for me to speak for Daveman, but it's quite apparent that should you take issue with advice, you
cry "Foul"....  so be it. Some newbies listen, and some never will. I broke a few Commandments myself in my day,
but items like "patience", "financial viability", "planning with respect to time and money" are all exceedingly important
to a WM who really desires to increase his odds of success. You and I may have done things differently - our way,
so to speak - but IMHO, it's hardly wise to preach "Hey - it CAN be done - quickly and cheaply" when in fact, the
history shows that throwing caution out the door turns the odds in favor of the House - not the Player.

Only #7 was truly a sordid post - my bet is that guy will never show his face here again... cannot even spell "loser" correctly...

Consider the source of these posts - WM with much time in service, many trips under their belts and
some who've been there and done that. Most significantly was your rebuff to advice offered by Rina,
a genuinely perceptive Russian woman who definitely knows more about younger RW than you and me.

This what I said, " It just takes a lot of time and patience ... and money which you have with a $50K salary."

I agree that "patience", "financial viability", "planning with respect to time and money" are important.  Nowhere did I say they were not.  What I had issue with was the minimum of spending 25K for travel expenses.

[Misha]

This does sound an awfully lot like another poster with the same situation, even including the job.

I would say your odds are not good unless you are willing to spend a year or so over there studying, learning, dating and trying to develop a good relationship. Not every FSU gal is looking for an older, wealthy guy and, in fact, I would advise that you specifically NOT be looking for one that is looking for a non-FSU man. You should be looking for one who is simply enjoying her life and both of you are lucky enough to find each other along the way.

Look for a relationship, not a wife.

I overlooked you post when I replied. It is great advice