Leaving on a Jet Plane..I don't know when I'll be back again

[ML]

Another negative of writing and skype.  Best to just meet women face to face and not waste all the time before hand. 

Any so called 'negative' from writing and skype is overwhelmed by the 'negative' potential of following your advice to just go and meet with minimal writing and skyping (I presume you mean).

The number of disasters from the WOVO approach skyrocket when it is coupled with a minimal write and skype approach.

Of course it is best to not draw out the writing and skyping forever AND true that you should not fall in love with the woman (man) you write and skype with.

But  it is totally irresponsible to advise people to skip the write and skype stage and just jump on a plane.  The only time that would be advisable would be in the case of those who lived nearby.

A great disservice is done to the general pool of men by the extremely limited number of men who live close or travel frequently to the FSU on business or such, and give such silly advice as this.

[Daveman]

Any so called 'negative' from writing and skype is overwhelmed by the 'negative' potential of following your advice to just go and meet with minimal writing and skyping (I presume you mean).

The number of disasters from the WOVO approach skyrocket when it is coupled with a minimal write and skype approach.

kievstar can speak for himself, of course, but I don't recall that he ever advocated WOVO (impossible completely if you WRITE NONE as he HAS advocated).  But rather a go there and Meet Many approach... personally, I think it is a damn good idea, though I can see drawbacks in that certain ladies in whom there may be a great interest could be off on another planet for vacation or something... but, I definitely see the logic of just going there to meet face to face, THEN communicate after..  and go back later for a VO if it leads that way.

[ecr844]

Guys, could we not hijack the thread into a WMVM vs WOVO debate? Neither is a guaranteed 'silver bullet' for 100% of folks a 100% of the time. Folks choose the methods that they think will work for them for the reasons that only they know.

[Daveman]

Guys, could we not hijack the thread into a WMVM vs WOVO debate? Neither is a guaranteed 'silver bullet' for 100% of folks a 100% of the time. Folks choose the methods that they think will work for them for the reasons that only they know.

Agreed...

Great report so far ecr844. Thanks for the honesty. 

[ML]

kievstar can speak for himself, of course, but I don't recall that he ever advocated WOVO

I never said he did.  I intoned on what would happen if his minimalist approach were coupled with  WOVO.

[Eduard]

Guys, could we not hijack the thread into a WMVM vs WOVO debate? Neither is a guaranteed 'silver bullet' for 100% of folks a 100% of the time. Folks choose the methods that they think will work for them for the reasons that only they know.

right Eric, back to your TR. I've been waiting for a couple of months now to see what happened later on.

[Vinnvinny]

right Eric, back to your TR. I've been waiting for a couple of months now to see what happened later on.

Agreed. If he goes silent on us again then there must be repercussions ... and a fine! 

[srsol]

Wow - a great TR - thank you very much for sharing . . . 

[CanadaMan]

I've just got one question for you.
Did you get your netbook back?

[wiz]

Come on Eric

and nice to see you around.

I have been waiting, like the other boys, long time to read your travel report past this stage.......

Love the photos.........

Hi  Eddward

I agree with your comments, why can't people wait till Eric finish his report, have more information posted before starting debating?

wiz

[Ade]

I have to say this.

My wife and I just spent some time reading through this TR and were aghast almost from the beginning. Seriously, this is a shinning example of what not to do in so many ways.

I went and found the TR on RUA in the train wreck room and I've read a few responses there. I have to say that from what I've read so far, Andrew and David have it spot on. And to quote Andrew, my wife and I were also shouting, "what are you doing you sad needy bugger!" from halfway down page 1.

Seriously dude, you allowed yourself to be used and abused, and abused again, and again. Then you went out of your way to pay for the privilege.

I hope you also realize by now that most decent families in the FSU would feel, at the very least, embarrassed to accept such expensive gifts from someone they'd never met and hardly knew. Flowers for her mother and bottle of something for her father by all means, but really!  

For any newbie here reading I will say this; Do NOT get on a plane unless the woman you plan to meet at least shows some signs of interest. Any indifference, move on.

[ML]

Would someone please send me PM with info as to what and where RUA is?
Thanks

[Jumper]

Of course we can all read the TR  , and say that absolutely "we" feel that would bail on the situation immediately,
however *looking back* it is likely JUST AS CLEAR to Eric.

"AJ,"

Thanks, for the kind words and I'll expand on some of your points and explain a little in a coming update

He has promised already to elaborate some on these points?
This is what would help new guys,,right?

So how about we let him ?
and also let him finish the rest of his trip as well?

or you can debate with me, about how you have every right on  a discussion board to
reply and criticize  all his actions and debate them amoungst yourselves endlessly like often happens.
 
 

[facetrock]

  Its so easy to pick apart a guy when he writes a trip report that turns into a train wreck. But I think we should remember that in real life and real time everything isnt so easy to see. Red flags become obvious later when you write the report that you didnt pick up on right away.

  All the suttle little things that happen in real life aren't so immediatly obvious until a man has time to sit back and think it through. This doesnt necessarily mean he was thinking with his dick or had cupids flying around his head at the time when every red flag occured.
  Some things just dont registar instantly in some situations.

 Everyone of us has done stupid things when courting women but at the time it probably seemed like a good idea. Easy for us to see the red flags in this story quickly but in real life it might not have been instantly evident.

[XMan]

I think AJ and Facetrock are spot on.

I think it's difficult to see the light and throw in the towel when one has made a significant commitment to "the plan," especially if there was significant communication prior to meeting.   

I must admit though, that the "Coca-Cola Umbrella Rant Incident" would probably have been the last straw for most. 
It certainly would have been for me, if I had managed to make it that far. 

Hope things improved post her departure.

[Ade]

Are you guys reading the same TR as I am?

Seriously, "in rt everything isn't so easy to see"?

Just off the top of my head without going back through the epic; what about the indifference, the lack of intimacy, the fact they have absolutely nothing in common and couldn't hold a conversation for more than a minute (and why didn't that come up in their long communications beforehand? Even if she were an angel wtf sort of relationship could you have?), and later her temper tantrums. Then there's all the money he was throwing around - I mean, I'm a generous guy but come on, what sort of signals is this going to send to any girl? Her lack of enthusiasm to spend time with him should have been enough - he's looking for a life time partner here remember? If the experience isn't absolutely awesome, it's a no-go and anyone should move on.

I've read ECR's posts on the other forum before and he seems like a nice guy, but, this trip was handled like a newbie and it has to be said. Unless you have unlimited time and resources, the only time a WOVO is a good idea is if you invest a great deal of time to get to know someone beforehand and in addition, you are fairly good at reading people. Even then, things can go pear shaped and guys have to be able to know when they should cut their losses and have the balls to do that no matter how much time and money they've invested up to that point; the fact that he'd spent so much money on her and her family certainly made that decision more difficult.

This was like watching someone have their toenails pulled out one by one, day after day and screaming for more.

[Vinnvinny]

This was like watching someone have their toenails pulled out one by one, day after day and screaming for more.

There are special clinics who will do that for you .... and the rates don't seem so bad. 

[JohnDearGreen]

I think it's difficult to see the light and throw in the towel when one has made a significant commitment to "the plan," especially if there was significant communication prior to meeting.   

Practically all mistakes can be summarized into 2 mutually exclusive categories:
a) not giving it enough time
b) spending too much time with a lady

I have a few regrets on item (a) myself.
My checking account has a few regrets on item (b).

[Jumper]

Are you guys reading the same TR as I am?

Seriously, "in rt everything isn't so easy to see"?

Just off the top of my head without going back through the epic; what about the indifference, the lack of intimacy, the fact they have absolutely nothing in common and couldn't hold a conversation for more than a minute (and why didn't that come up in their long communications beforehand? Even if she were an angel wtf sort of relationship could you have?), and later her temper tantrums. Then there's all the money he was throwing around - I mean, I'm a generous guy but come on, what sort of signals is this going to send to any girl? Her lack of enthusiasm to spend time with him should have been enough - he's looking for a life time partner here remember? If the experience isn't absolutely awesome, it's a no-go and anyone should move on.

I've read ECR's posts on the other forum before and he seems like a nice guy, but, this trip was handled like a newbie and it has to be said. Unless you have unlimited time and resources, the only time a WOVO is a good idea is if you invest a great deal of time to get to know someone beforehand and in addition, you are fairly good at reading people. Even then, things can go pear shaped and guys have to be able to know when they should cut their losses and have the balls to do that no matter how much time and money they've invested up to that point; the fact that he'd spent so much money on her and her family certainly made that decision more difficult.

This was like watching someone have their toenails pulled out one by one, day after day and screaming for more.

I'm reading the same story SJ,and agree..
I think ECR would as well... so what's the point?


I would also like to hear the end of the story  ,
rather than dissect the dead frog on the table.
it's obvious to you or me that the frog is dead, and it is fairly obvious as well, that the the OP knows why the frog is dead.
He isn't crying about the money spent ,and he wasn't asking for advise on how to avoid this in the future,nor is he defending his own  actions. simply stating them and what went down.
Like i mentioned  we can debate,why he went on with her too long ,by our definitions..
or we can let him finish the rest of his story?


I tell you what SJ, 
 

Eric!!!
you know-    reading your story here,  it's become so very clear to most all us forum  board pundits,,
that you stuck this one out far far too long !!

just in case you din't realize that and all..
ok?

feel better SJ?

 I can see the point about helping newbies ..

and i think part of ECR sharing his story is to do just that..  and I do think those points have been made..
and most importantly
the OP has expressed already ,that he intends to expand on those very points?

seriously I do understand the commentary. .  and it is a discussion forum after all..
i  just hate to see yet another TR spiral into unending debates ..
instead of being completed.

apologies to ECR for my own interuption to it ...
 
carry on....
 
 

[LEGAL]

I welcome constructive criticism, and observations, opinions, etc... Any thought you have of flaming or anything of that vein, please don't waste your time or mine.  I am writing this in hopes to help others learn from my experiences, and or not to repeat my mistakes. This trip I took a number of calculated risks. As with any risk it sometimes may not pay off. I ask the peanut gallery to wait until the TR is complete before pitching in with chiding and opinion on various points. Thanks in advance.
Buckle up boys and girls and enjoy the ride.
 

[erudite]

I have read this Trip Report and found it very good and also very brave. It takes effort and courage to write a Test Report like this giving all the facts, showing all the warts, moles and blemishes of trip. I was sorry to see him being picked apart for his mistakes so harshly. Everyone makes many mistakes in this search and I am no different. I will make even more I am quite sure. Let the man tell his story because he does it for the people who read this forum.  At least he wrote a Trip Report and posted it. I skipped making one for my last trip and will probably not write another because of the tendency of some to jump with both feet on a man who is already depressed about his trip and its results in the end.  My last trip was perfect as I found the lady I wanted, but it could have turned out a big dissappointment just as easily. Don't kill the messenger!

[viking]

ECR

Please continue. Many of us feel you are writing a compelling , truthful, report that many can learn from. I wrote a TR many years ago about an experience with a pro-dater. Somewhat similiar. The emotional aspect of it was the worst. Here you hitched up your pants and let it out. Good for you.

[Gator]

I have enjoyed each and every trip to Russia and Ukraine even though sometimes I spent a lot of money and came home empty handed with regard to having connected with a special woman. 

Just the time with women and their paradoxes and glory is usually enough to amke a trip wonderful.   Yet that is just one part as one breaks away from his daily routine and embraces the sense of adventure that only travel can provide.  All the time we are experiencing the intersection of anticipation and imagination with reality.

Examples abound:  getting a different perspective of what life may be about,  encountering a unique character,  managing one's way about a locale, making a discovery sometimes about yourself, capturing something with a camera, surviving a problem, and other fulfilling moments.    Indeed, travel is grand. 

And each trip is also a learning experience.   Of those who criticize a trip report, specifically the way a man conducted himself, I have the following questions:

1.  Did you adhere to any requests the writer may have made? 
2.  Was your response balanced, to include an acknowledgment of his own purposes and what he did well?
3.  Did you offer your criticism in a constructive manner?
4.  Are you a glass half empty type of person?
5.  Have you ever posted a trip report at RWD?
6.  Have you ever been to the FSU?

 

[LEGAL]

And each trip is also a learning experience.   Of those who criticize a trip report, specifically the way a man conducted himself, I have the following questions:

1.  Did you adhere to any requests the writer may have made? 
2.  Was your response balanced, to include an acknowledgment of his own purposes and what he did well?
3.  Did you offer your criticism in a constructive manner?
4.  Are you a glass half empty type of person?
5.  Have you ever posted a trip report at RWD?
6.  Have you ever been to the FSU?

Very well said Gator
Maybe now would be a good time to do what Eric asked at the very beginning!
 "wait until the TR is complete before pitching"

[Handycam72]

ecr844 I'm enjoying your report and looking forward to reading more