Yet more info needed :)

[facetrock]

Gotta agree with Daveman. Forget this one an move on.

[SANDRO43]

FR, we're looking forward to seeing your next avatar - in diapers?

[Aussielion]

I have ditched her and moved on.

[Eduard]

I have ditched her and moved on.

wise choice IMO.

[vwrw]

I have ditched her and moved on.

Could you provide some details please? What she said about her profile on facebook?

[facetrock]

There you go Sandro
I think I look good for fifty

[SANDRO43]

There you go Sandro I think I look good for fifty

I look better than you at 67 WITHOUT diapers .

[BillyB]

How much should I expect to pay for a translator?

If you're communicating through emails, nothing is the cost. Tell any RW to get a @mail.ru account which is free and she'll have a translator to use there to send her mail to you in English and translate your English words to Russian for her to read. Or you can do all the work at the site below.

http://www.online-translator.com/Default.aspx/Text

[Eduard]

If you're communicating through emails, nothing is the cost. Tell any RW to get a @mail.ru account which is free and she'll have a translator to use there to send her mail to you in English and translate your English words to Russian for her to read. Or you can do all the work at the site below.

http://www.online-translator.com/Default.aspx/Text

just keep in mind that you will just be getting "the gist of it", I'd say about 60% of the text will be hard to figure out/pure guesswork/incorrectly translated. Not a good way to really get to know each other on a deeper level.

[Vinnvinny]

just keep in mind that you will just be getting "the gist of it", I'd say about 60% of the text will be hard to figure out/pure guesswork/incorrectly translated. Not a good way to really get to know each other on a deeper level.

Unless conversation is restricted to "how are you" and "what is the weather" I would say the gist is lower than 60% Ed, nearer 40% ... if that.

[BillyB]

just keep in mind that you will just be getting "the gist of it", I'd say about 60% of the text will be hard to figure out/pure guesswork/incorrectly translated. Not a good way to really get to know each other on a deeper level.

Speaking for myself, it's not that hard to figure out the translations. What is hard, hard on the wallet, is hiring a real translator. I doubt many men have an endless supply of money so if it came down to hiring a real translator to communicate with 10 women often or using a free translator to communicate with hundreds of women, I'd take the free translator. I doubt out of 10 women there will be the "right" one for me in that small group.  For those ladies that don't speak English, it will still be hard to know on a deeper level when there is a translator in the middle. There are some things best talked about when two people are alone. I prefer a woman that speak English but I won't rule out one who doesn't.

[ace131]

If you're communicating through emails, nothing is the cost. Tell any RW to get a @mail.ru account which is free and she'll have a translator to use there to send her mail to you in English and translate your English words to Russian for her to read. Or you can do all the work at the site below.

http://www.online-translator.com/Default.aspx/Text

Very often people get misunderstanding because of the online translator. it is machine.
have you tried to translate something from English into Russian and back from Russian into English. you will see what you will have.
friend of mine communicated with American guy. she sent  him online translated sentence "I miss you" but the online translator translated as "i feel bored with you"

Interpreters are also human beings. so it is possible to have a good deal with them.
But if it is agency interpreter than they have fixed prices and do not want to make discounts.

[Aloe]

If you're communicating through emails, nothing is the cost. Tell any RW to get a @mail.ru account which is free and she'll have a translator to use there to send her mail to you in English and translate your English words to Russian for her to read. Or you can do all the work at the site below.

http://www.online-translator.com/Default.aspx/Text

Hey, i just tried to translate a self written paragraph online, here is what i got:

Well, today turned out to be a glorious day, and then all week at work rack. Boss grumbles so indignant over nothing, maybe it's his red days on the calendar, so to speak, it? And then it all around and dig, plaguing does not. Sometimes I feel like he was sent to him! At last weekend, though a couple of days rest from it! I hope the weather will hold a couple more days! I think that's what would do to escape. Can go sit with her friends, discuss-life case yes)

 

Not very clear is it. I'm counting at least 4 sentences that got completely twisted into something ununderstandable, that's 50% of the text

Original is

Хорошо, сегодня выдался славный денек, а то всю неделю на работе замучилась. Босс ворчит да негодует по пустякам, может это у него красные дни календаря, так сказать, настали? А то он ко всем и всему докапывается, житья не дает. Иногда так и хочется его послать, чтоб его! Наконец-то выходные, хоть пару дней отдохну от него! Надеюсь, погода продержится еще пару дней! Думаю вот, чем бы заняться чтоб отвлечься. Может пойдем с подругами посидим, пообсуждаем жизнь да дела )


 

[Eduard]

I had a funny thing happen to one of my clients a few months back. When he first started writing to this girl in Irkutsk (who is now his girlfriend and potentially much more after his next visit) he was using me to translate. But since she knew some English she asked him to send her letters in English, untranslated. So the guy is in law enforcement and he wrote to her about his day and one of the things he said was something like: "I was chasing bad guys in the woods all day and I'm really beat". She didn't understand what he wrote and ran it through an on line translator. She got something that in Russian sounds like: "I like to watch bad boys in the woods and beat them up". Needless to say she didn't write back after that...
He really liked this girl and asked me to look into it see what might have gone wrong. When I saw that sentence I already kind of knew that that's where the problem was, but I ran it through google translate and now I was sure. So I wrote to this girl in Russian and explained what happened. She did tell me that she didn't even know what to write in response to that and decided to forget him at that point. Well after she realised that the problem was with translation we had a good laugh and they resumed corresponding. From this point on he would send me his letters to be translated to Russian, I would translate them and send back to him and then he would send her both English and Russian version. This was also very helpful to her because she could learn spoken English this way and by the time we visited her in Irkutsk last August her English was a lot better and they were able to communicate without me being present after the first 3 days.

BillyB, I understand what you are saying about saving money, what many men realise is that they pay one way or another. For many, time IS money!

[Vinnvinny]

I had a funny thing happen to one of my clients a few months back. When he first started writing to this girl in Irkutsk (who is now his girlfriend and potentially much more after his next visit) he was using me to translate. But since she knew some English she asked him to send her letters in English, untranslated. So the guy is in law enforcement and he wrote to her about his day and one of the things he said was something like: "I was chasing bad guys in the woods all day and I'm really beat". She didn't understand what he wrote and ran it through an on line translator. She got something that in Russian sounds like: "I like to watch bad boys in the woods and beat them up".

The problem there Ed was with your client who was using slang which will obviously 'throw' many people whose first language isn't English.

If he had written 'I had been following criminals in a forest all day and I am tired' then I'm sure his lady would have a greater understanding. This is typical of WM IME, I have often found myself having to 'translate' on behalf of other guys to English speakers simply because they were too lazy or inconsiderate to the 'foreigner' they we talking to.

[Eduard]

I have often found myself having to 'translate' on behalf of other guys to English speakers simply because they were too lazy or inconsiderate to the 'foreigner' they we talking to.

Or maybe they were just inexperienced? My client was pretty much a newbie to this, so how would he know? You've been at it for years, travelled to Ukraine about 30 times, I think? so off course you had experienced this problem and learned from your mistakes. This was the first time that my guy was talking to Russian women and now he's been to Russia only once so far (going back to spend 3 weeks with his girlfriend again in December). I assure you that he learned from that one time mistake and when he was alone with his girl he used simple phrases.
Nut basically you just confirm my point that a WM can't talk normally, the way he usually talks, can't make jokes, can't really show his personality at all, and neither can an FSU woman when they are trying to communicate without a good translator. IMO a man can either get simply very lucky and marry a good woman strictly by chance, or he can marry the wrong woman and will spend many times the amount that he "saved" not having a good translator.
Just my 2Cents.

[Eduard]

I just think that it's good to have a better understanding who you are dealing with and without a real good knowledge of Russian it's next to impossible to tell. And FSU women can be very different from one another. Here is a sample from this RW's profile (you usually won't find this type of candid "about me" description on MOB agency sites):

О себе
♀ Я не подарок,. . . Я - сюрприз ♂
Я МОГУ БЫТЬ РАЗНОЙ:МОГУ СТОЯТЬ В КРАСИВОМ ДОРОГОМ ПЛАТЬЕ НА КАКОЙ НИБУДЬ ГЛАМУРНОЙ ТУСОВКЕ, МИЛО УЛЫБАТСЯ И РАСТЯГИВАТЬ В ТЕЧЕНИИ ЧАСА КАКОЙ-НИБУДЬ КОКТЕЙЛЬ.А МОГУ ЖРАТЬ ВОДКУ, ПАДАТЬ В ГРЯЗЬ, ДРАТЬСЯ...И МНЕ БУДЕТ ПОXYЙ, ЧТО ОБО МНЕ ПОДУМАЮТ!

P.S. Не надо злить забывчивую маленькую блондинку, она может оказаться умной стервой с очень хорошей памятью!
И создал Бог женщину...существо получилось злобное,
Но ! забавное...) 


God help you!

[Patagonie]

Or maybe they were just inexperienced? My client was pretty much a newbie to this, so how would he know? You've been at it for years, travelled to Ukraine about 30 times, I think? so off course you had experienced this problem and learned from your mistakes. This was the first time that my guy was talking to Russian women and now he's been to Russia only once so far (going back to spend 3 weeks with his girlfriend again in December). I assure you that he learned from that one time mistake and when he was alone with his girl he used simple phrases.
Nut basically you just confirm my point that a WM can't talk normally, the way he usually talks, can't make jokes, can't really show his personality at all, and neither can an FSU woman when they are trying to communicate without a good translator. IMO a man can either get simply very lucky and marry a good woman strictly by chance, or he can marry the wrong woman and will spend many times the amount that he "saved" not having a good translator.
Just my 2Cents.

In fact i just return from my last travel in FSU, and for the first time i used a translator during meetings. My 2cents :
   For a good introduction, and good profile (in russia) a professional translator is needed, no doubt about that.
   For correspondance probably. My correspondances have happened always with girls who had good english skills for the few i had exchanged letters so i haven't enough experience about this topic.
    In dating. 1/An interpreter is a big love killer 2/ an interpreter can be the full part of the scam when you are in  a bad agency with an interpreter you MUST use with the fee, so of course always use an independant interpreter 3/ By using an interpreter from the beginning you will not know her skills in foreign languages 4/ a girl who need an interpret is at my opinion, except particular cases, not a good marriage material. a/ if you cannot communicate, where are you going ? To crash b/ a girl who don't make any effort at this stage will probably make no effort in the relation. People who don't make sacrifice from the beginning will not do in the future. So working alone in a relation is the best way to be very disappointed at the end. 5/ Agencies and interpretors are trying to make money, wich is natural of course but in fact they don't help girls, who in general, and for a lot of them, have little english at least. They need to practice and work a little. When girls do this they show a GOOD sign of their interest. They need some self confidence, so you MUST kick out interpreters, to let them to speak. In dating remember you can use a lot of things to  help communication : draw, hands, mimics, electronic translator (i agree not always good, but with my basic english i have no problem in general). And it's FUNNY and it's a good way to enter in the intimate area of the girl (wich not happen when an interpreter is present) 6/ Why in dating an interpreter can be or must be essential a/ to check scammer, AFTER at least the second date, TO GO INTO very importants topics wich needs to be very well understood .
So
As interpretors are expensive and sometimes very expensive (between 10% and 35% of your travel if you use one) it's important to limit their use in the way i explain above. You need to compromise between the big mistake (scammer, the example quoted by Eduard) and the intelligent way wich should extend your life dating path. Why ? because money is one of the key of the process of course and you must be careful with money.

Little precision about 6/a/ I want to say here : you don't NEED an interpreter at all for the first meeting. It's the best way to reduce the cost of you WMVM (or WOVM). Why ? As Jack says about dating 85% of meetings have no success after one or few hours. So why need to use an interpreter at this stage ? You need to focus about what you feel with her. And more, when a girl must speak in her non native language she has, often or always, to open more her body language. And if her abilities in english are part of your score, so you can know more about her english.
So really, at my opinion you need to use an interpreter only with your toplist, to check the girl, and about topics you absolutely want to understand her exact point of view, with no MISINTERPRETATION.
Patagonie.

[Eduard]

I'm sorry, but after reading your post, I don't think that you have an understanding of the dynamics of building a relationship with FSU women.
If you continue using this approach and philosophy you might get very lucky and meet a woman who will deal with the situation according to your expectations, but it's going to be purely by luck. This approach will cause you to lose many great potential matches along the way and may take years (if you ever do succeed). I work with guys who are communicating with FSU women on a daily basis, many of them communicate with the women without translation part of the time (on skype) and I see how many of them fail particularly because of that. Sometimes I manage to salvage things, other times it's too late. And most of the times it's because of missunderstandings specific to the language barrier.
Also when guys meet their girls in the FSU for the first time, IMO it is absolutely imperative to have a good translator present (some one you trust and who is 100% fluent in both languages). You don't want any misunderstanding or miscommunication at this stage. It is even more difficult to communicate at this stage, because both are very nervous usually, and even if a woman knows some English, she usually forgets most of it at a moment like this. In my experience both men and women are very glad to have me there for the first 2 or 3 days while they get to know each other and build trust and understanding. And if things work out they simply tell me to get lost after that initial period of getting comfortable with each other and only call me with questions or have me join them when they need to have a serious discussion. I've gone through this so many times already, I could write a book. And your suggestion is a recipe for disaster 9 times out of 10 (figuratively speaking) with perfectly good, suitable women.

[acctBill]

I just think that it's good to have a better understanding who you are dealing with and without a real good knowledge of Russian it's next to impossible to tell. And FSU women can be very different from one another. Here is a sample from this RW's profile (you usually won't find this type of candid "about me" description on MOB agency sites):

О себе
♀ Я не подарок,. . . Я - сюрприз ♂
Я МОГУ БЫТЬ РАЗНОЙ:МОГУ СТОЯТЬ В КРАСИВОМ ДОРОГОМ ПЛАТЬЕ НА КАКОЙ НИБУДЬ ГЛАМУРНОЙ ТУСОВКЕ, МИЛО УЛЫБАТСЯ И РАСТЯГИВАТЬ В ТЕЧЕНИИ ЧАСА КАКОЙ-НИБУДЬ КОКТЕЙЛЬ.А МОГУ ЖРАТЬ ВОДКУ, ПАДАТЬ В ГРЯЗЬ, ДРАТЬСЯ...И МНЕ БУДЕТ ПОXYЙ, ЧТО ОБО МНЕ ПОДУМАЮТ!

P.S. Не надо злить забывчивую маленькую блондинку, она может оказаться умной стервой с очень хорошей памятью!
И создал Бог женщину...существо получилось злобное,
Но ! забавное...) 


God help you!

Ed if she's real good looking she's probably getting lots of mail, after all most WM don't understand Russian.  Therefore most WM don't know that she's admitting to being a b*tch and not even in a particularly humourous way.

[Patagonie]

I'm sorry, but after reading your post, I don't think that you have an understanding of the dynamics of building a relationship with FSU women.
If you continue using this approach and philosophy you might get very lucky and meet a woman who will deal with the situation according to your expectations, but it's going to be purely by luck. This approach will cause you to lose many great potential matches along the way and may take years (if you ever do succeed). I work with guys who are communicating with FSU women on a daily basis, many of them communicate with the women without translation part of the time (on skype) and I see how many of them fail particularly because of that. Sometimes I manage to salvage things, other times it's too late. And most of the times it's because of missunderstandings specific to the language barrier.
Also when guys meet their girls in the FSU for the first time, IMO it is absolutely imperative to have a good translator present (some one you trust and who is 100% fluent in both languages). You don't want any misunderstanding or miscommunication at this stage. It is even more difficult to communicate at this stage, because both are very nervous usually, and even if a woman knows some English, she usually forgets most of it at a moment like this. In my experience both men and women are very glad to have me there for the first 2 or 3 days while they get to know each other and build trust and understanding. And if things work out they simply tell me to get lost after that initial period of getting comfortable with each other and only call me with questions or have me join them when they need to have a serious discussion. I've gone through this so many times already, I could write a book. And your suggestion is a recipe for disaster 9 times out of 10 (figuratively speaking) with perfectly good, suitable women.

I understand that you are defending your job, me i have nothing to earn...
I can say to you i'm a very lucky men because in 4 FSU travels (not counting two scammers) in FSU i started 4 buildings relations with girls (for three of them, i decided to stop because they are not good long relationship materials and for the last daddy had considered that the age gap between us was too wide (18)), so for the moment we can say in 13 months, as you see a translator has very little thing to do with building relationships with FSU woman. I recommend them , for the reasons i had written (introductions, profiles, check scammer, important questions when no misinterpretation are required, legal documents, doctors) and perhaps correspondance.

Eduard i'm writing less and less now because i'm more interest to meet. And you know that genuine woman are waiting true man in their cities. After few months they begin to be very tired to write (i don't speak about agencies' interpreters) to strangers who often don't show (before the first meeting).

Lost a relation because misunderstanding doesn't mean an interpreter is the main key of the success.
You are a part of the success, a little,  and i showed you all the disadvantages of using an interpreter (because all intermediate in a communication are losses in communication : remember communication is 6% of meaning 38% of intonation and the rest in body language).
Don't inflate your part please.
I understand you are passionate for what you are doing and i'm sure you provide a good service for your customers but extend to :
 Without me your life will become a defeat don't impress me.
Have a nice day.
Patagonie.

[Kuna]

In fact i just return from my last travel in FSU, and for the first time i used a translator during meetings. My 2cents :
   For a good introduction, and good profile (in russia) a professional translator is needed, no doubt about that.
   For correspondance probably. My correspondances have happened always with girls who had good english skills for the few i had exchanged letters so i haven't enough experience about this topic.
    In dating. 1/An interpreter is a big love killer 2/ an interpreter can be the full part of the scam when you are in  a bad agency with an interpreter you MUST use with the fee, so of course always use an independant interpreter 3/ By using an interpreter from the beginning you will not know her skills in foreign languages 4/ a girl who need an interpret is at my opinion, except particular cases, not a good marriage material. a/ if you cannot communicate, where are you going ? To crash b/ a girl who don't make any effort at this stage will probably make no effort in the relation. People who don't make sacrifice from the beginning will not do in the future. So working alone in a relation is the best way to be very disappointed at the end. 5/ Agencies and interpretors are trying to make money, wich is natural of course but in fact they don't help girls, who in general, and for a lot of them, have little english at least. They need to practice and work a little. When girls do this they show a GOOD sign of their interest. They need some self confidence, so you MUST kick out interpreters, to let them to speak. In dating remember you can use a lot of things to  help communication : draw, hands, mimics, electronic translator (i agree not always good, but with my basic english i have no problem in general). And it's FUNNY and it's a good way to enter in the intimate area of the girl (wich not happen when an interpreter is present) 6/ Why in dating an interpreter can be or must be essential a/ to check scammer, AFTER at least the second date, TO GO INTO very importants topics wich needs to be very well understood .
So
As interpretors are expensive and sometimes very expensive (between 10% and 35% of your travel if you use one) it's important to limit their use in the way i explain above. You need to compromise between the big mistake (scammer, the example quoted by Eduard) and the intelligent way wich should extend your life dating path. Why ? because money is one of the key of the process of course and you must be careful with money.

Little precision about 6/a/ I want to say here : you don't NEED an interpreter at all for the first meeting. It's the best way to reduce the cost of you WMVM (or WOVM). Why ? As Jack says about dating 85% of meetings have no success after one or few hours. So why need to use an interpreter at this stage ? You need to focus about what you feel with her. And more, when a girl must speak in her non native language she has, often or always, to open more her body language. And if her abilities in english are part of your score, so you can know more about her english.
So really, at my opinion you need to use an interpreter only with your toplist, to check the girl, and about topics you absolutely want to understand her exact point of view, with no MISINTERPRETATION.
Patagonie.

I'm sorry, but after reading your post, I don't think that you have an understanding of the dynamics of building a relationship with FSU women.
If you continue using this approach and philosophy you might get very lucky and meet a woman who will deal with the situation according to your expectations, but it's going to be purely by luck. This approach will cause you to lose many great potential matches along the way and may take years (if you ever do succeed). I work with guys who are communicating with FSU women on a daily basis, many of them communicate with the women without translation part of the time (on skype) and I see how many of them fail particularly because of that. Sometimes I manage to salvage things, other times it's too late. And most of the times it's because of missunderstandings specific to the language barrier.
Also when guys meet their girls in the FSU for the first time, IMO it is absolutely imperative to have a good translator present (some one you trust and who is 100% fluent in both languages). You don't want any misunderstanding or miscommunication at this stage. It is even more difficult to communicate at this stage, because both are very nervous usually, and even if a woman knows some English, she usually forgets most of it at a moment like this. In my experience both men and women are very glad to have me there for the first 2 or 3 days while they get to know each other and build trust and understanding. And if things work out they simply tell me to get lost after that initial period of getting comfortable with each other and only call me with questions or have me join them when they need to have a serious discussion. I've gone through this so many times already, I could write a book. And your suggestion is a recipe for disaster 9 times out of 10 (figuratively speaking) with perfectly good, suitable women.

This post is a wonderful example of how some men come to dislike Ed.

It demonstrates his poor social skills perfectly.

Considering he is here purely for business, you'd think he'd be a little more respectful of other men's opinions.

Go on Ed... now tell this guy you have a 100% success rate!

[GQBlues]

I want to take the time and say I agree with you Kuna.

No, let me reiterate that and say I STRONGLY agree with you Kuna. But I will leave it that to keep this thread on course so it doesn't get lost in a section where casual lurkers are deprived of factual information they need in their selection of SPs on this site.

[Gator]

I just think that it's good to have a better understanding who you are dealing with and without a real good knowledge of Russian it's next to impossible to tell. And FSU women can be very different from one another. Here is a sample from this RW's profile (you usually won't find this type of candid "about me" description on MOB agency sites)

God help you!

Please don't be so condescending about the savvy of American men.  Do you think men don't understand that women are different.  Believe me, some American women can throw a bitch show and even a horror show. 

Without the details,  the police were called outside a restaurant, a beautiful young woman arrested,  her brother was called to bail her out of jail....the brother's immediate response:  "You don't know the history, but if we are to remain friends  don't you ever call me  again about her; she can rot in jail (click)."

[Eduard]

Please don't be so condescending about the savvy of American men.  Do you think men don't understand that women are different. 

I guess some don't. Most guys who contact me about RW have this notion that they are all little sweet, beautiful angels. You and I know that this is not the case and that there are all kinds of women in the FSU. But many WM have been misinformed.