Just out of curiousity....

[ECOCKS]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know, PERSONALLY (not hearsay), one or more FSUW who was married to an American, Canadian, Aussie or British man that returned to their home country after divorce? This would only include those who did so after receiving permission for permanent residency - green card or equivalent.

Between my wife and I we determined that we know of 11 divorced couples (most American, but there were two Brits, an Aussie, a German and two Canadians in that group and no expat marriages were counted) and only one of the women did so. We do know one Canadian female who married a Ukrainian male and he returned to Ukraine after a little more than a year of living in Canada.

This conversation came about while we were discussing those gals (and the one guy)  build their new life focused on FSU friends, Russian TV, ethnic markets, Orthodox churches, frequent trips home, lagging English-speaking skills, in short, building a Russian life surrounded by their new culture.

[Gator]

AM-RW couple married.  Her daughter came to the US and returned to Russia to marry RM.  She divorced after she had US citizenship.  She returned to Russia to be with her daughter and grandchild.

[BillyB]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know, PERSONALLY (not hearsay), one or more FSUW who was married to an American, Canadian, Aussie or British man that returned to their home country after divorce? This would only include those who did so after receiving permission for permanent residency - green card or equivalent.

I dated one local RW who was married to an American man. She's in her mid 30s, became a US citizen and went back to Russia to live. She got accepted to an American university and recently came back to America. If she graduates and gets a good job here, she will stay. If she doesn't make anything out of her education, she will go back home unless she finds love here.

[acctBill]

When we lived in the UK my wife and I knew a couple of FSUW who divorced their British husbands and returned to the FSU. This is just a couple of cases in a group of FSUW that numbered over 25 not to mention several FSU couples.  In one case we later found out that the woman, who lived in Novosibirsk, moved to Italy because she couldn't take the Russian winters. 

In London it's true that a lot of Russian women and men, even when married to Brits, tended to live a Russian life.  In a place like London it's easy to do.  It's so easy to find Russian friends and everything else Russian. 

[ECOCKS]

When we lived in the UK my wife and I knew a couple of FSUW who divorced their British husbands and returned to the FSU. This is just a couple of cases in a group of FSUW that numbered over 25 not to mention several FSU couples.  In one case we later found out that the woman, who lived in Novosibirsk, moved to Italy because she couldn't take the Russian winters. 

In London it's true that a lot of Russian women and men, even when married to Brits, tended to live a Russian life.  In a place like London it's easy to do.  It's so easy to find Russian friends and everything else Russian. 

Sp, how many divorcees do you suspect stayed after divorce? I take it you aren't saying 2 out of 25 divorces, just 2 out of 25 couples you knew in total. So, 2 went back but one then subsequently returned to the west.

[Shadow]

Personally met a woman who returnes to Ukraine after being married in the US. She was no longer interested in returning, instead focused on Western Europe.
She is currently married and living on London.

[roykirk]

Yes, we knew a woman from Moscow who married an AM here in our small town.  It was a weird situation I covered in an old thread.  They had been married in Russia a couple of years prior and he had lived there with her while working for a company in Moscow.  Then his job moved him back to the states and after about 6 months or so his wife and stepchild joined him here.  Within a month of her arrival everything exploded.  She either found out (or he admitted) that he was having an affair and he booted her out on the street with her son saying he wanted a divorce.  She initially acted like she was going to try to stay (ostensibly because she felt she wouldn't get any financial support if she moved back to Russia immediately and because she felt her son would have a better life here), but after seeing the legal battle that was in front of her she just quietly moved back to Moscow. 

[kievstar]

I know several who have returned to Ukraine after 3 plus years marriage in USA (number will grow as many people married RW during this past decade as compared to 1990's). 

One woman we know just divorced her husband and is back in Ukraine after 3 years in USA (we bought her a one way ticket back home).  What is interesting is this AM first RW divorced him after 1 week in USA and went home with no residency.  Hopefully he is not allowed to marry anyone in the future he is a real tool. 

I could list more but I would say probably 25% get divorced and return to Ukraine, 25% get divorced and stay in USA, 25% not happy but stay married, and 25% happy.  Regarding women from Russia everyone we know that divorced stayed in USA.  I do see a big difference in Russia and Ukraine women and that the Russian women we know in the USA never seem happy with there husbands.  But I do see a lot larger age difference in the Russian women marriages as well - so that may explain it.  This is based on what I see and is no means a valid statistical sample.  About 100 plus couples in USA.  We seem to meet several new ones a month so the number grows.  Sometimes several in one day.

People having children together almost always very happy. 

[facetrock]

  Kievstar. What do you think. Is a common child going to make the marriage stronger? Or what if the woman has one or two pups already,the man would have to be the complete father in a situation like that. Wonder if it would matter if you had a common child or raised hers as far as marital bliss is concerned.

[BC]

A common child might make you think twice, or thrice before throwing towel, but don't expect a child to resolve existing relationship / marital problems.

Thinking of kids as leverage is wrong, before or after.

[GQBlues]

I first submit our observation and experience may not be statistically significant since we're mostly indifferent to most couples' daily lives. But here's what we know with great certainty simply because we knew the folks personally...

3 couples married RMs that were divorced:

1. She, 42, from Moscow. Divorced her RM hubby (6 months) and left with her son who was 19 at the time. It's too bad too because the son really liked it here.
2. She, 25 from Moscow. Divorced her RM hubby (1+ year) but is currently staying here. At the present time, her priorities are new beau first, career second. LOL. Dated a doctor but the guy booted her off after 2 months of shacking up because she keeps asking for marriage. Welcome to LA. She's currently dating a RM friend of ours.
3. Met RM hubby before while on work visa. Married, the divorced after 1.5 years. She still loves him, so she says, but is currently open to meet men willing to be in a relationship. Hooked up with a European dude who was on vacation here, eventually left to live with him for 5 months only to hurry back here because she said they ate pasta and pizza for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. LOL.

4 couples married to AMs that were divorced:

1. She, 33 from Ukraine. Divorced her AM hubby after 2+ years. Have had 2 BFs that we know about before finally dating her latest beau who's Ukrainian, 29. Still undecided about career. With a daughter who is currently 12 years old.
2. She, 29 from Siberia. Divorced her AM hubby because he turned out to be an alcoholic. She suspected it before but he denies it. 1 week before she arrived, he got tagged DUI for the 3rd time and had to do serious jail time during her K period. LOL. She married him anyway and eventually divorced. She's still 'in country' but we don't know where today.
3. She, 27 from St Pete. Divorced her hubby after 3 years. Was living in San Francisco before, Had one child with the guy, then he turned 'abusive' (her story, we don't know or care for details). Currently fixing to move to LA hoping to land both a hubby and a career, doing what, she have no idea. LOL. Methinks searching more for a man to support her.
4. She, 23 from Moscow. Gorgeous. Apparently coming from a very rich family. Divorced from hubby after less than 2 years. Currently living with brother and is starting to hang-out with the Hollydudes. She'll definitely make a fine DisneyGF.

Odd and Ends:

1. She, 22 from Moscow. Arrived on K1 and within 2 months she decided to go back to Moscow because the AM gets stoned with his buddies everyday. She said they smoked dope so much everything in the house smelled like weed.
2. She, 26 from Moscow. Was here on a student visa and was attending the same Uni my wife did. She drove around on a Benz as apparently her folks were supporting her 100%. When she finished, and I dont know what the exact details were, she got a 'white' card. Some sort of refugee status. She couldn't fathom having to go back to Moscow and leave LA. Currently working and have a live-in RM boyfriend.
3. We met 2 'young' women at my old local watering hole. Just cruising through life and seem to be having a lot fun doing it. Both overstayed their student visa and don't seem to be too concerned about it. They should make a few of our local boyz happy for a short while.

My wife knew some women on or about that are literally flying about with their lives seemingly waiting for a 'man' to get hitced with than to spend their energy towards a career. They're mostly pretty women. Many even ask my wife to see if any of my single friends would be interested...we agree in that we don't want to be involved. Besides, I like my friends. Those women are better off with FSUMs. There are a huge number of them here in LA with careers.

*I* seem to *like* couples who are married to RM/UMs than couples married to AMs. The FSU men aren't so...clingy, for lack of a better term. It's an oxymoron for me to say this but from my perspective, they seem to fit naturally. Women married to FSUMs seem more 'submissive' to their partners than the ones married to AMs.

We do know more than a few AM/FSUW that are, and have been, and still is happily married with their respective families...it's not all doom and gloom out in the wild west.

[acctBill]

Sp, how many divorcees do you suspect stayed after divorce? I take it you aren't saying 2 out of 25 divorces, just 2 out of 25 couples you knew in total. So, 2 went back but one then subsequently returned to the west.

In our little area of London we were frequently in contact with about 25 or 30 couples with a FSU wife and of course knew other FSUW that we saw less frequently.  My wife found out about the FSUW that went home and later moved to Italy from a mutual friend.  The other FSUW we never heard from again.  

Other FSUW in our group divorced their British husbands plus my wife and I meet other FSUW over the years who had been married to British/European men and later divorced.  They all stayed for various reasons. Most stayed because they had children and other family members in their adopted country.  They had settled into a nice life.  Many divorced FSUW worked, some had very good jobs, even by European standards.  If they returned to the FSU their lifestyle and their children's future would suffer.  Other FSUW used the old standby when asked why they had remained in London after their divorce, the Russian weather.  London weather is famous for its lack of sunshine and rain but as anyone who has ever been to the FSU knows Russian winters are something that are best avoided if possible.

[kievstar]

Regarding having children together I think the women become less materialistic and focus on the family.  Men also mature up.  I am not expert just my thoughts. 

I see many RW who really do not like the children of there new AM.  AM are usually clueless to this and think otherwise.  Children can cause additional stress if there under 20 years old or over 20 and still live at home.

Personally I would never marry someone with children.  My wife tells me several times a week she is happy I did not have children before her as so many of her friends have huge headaches do to an AM's children with another wife.

[Phil dAmore]

I know of one woman who returned to Russia after her American husband died.  They had been married in Russia and had a child.  The woman had received her green card and all was well until the guy suddenly dropped dead.  She and the baby returned to Russia.

Because the child is an American citizen he will receive survivor benefits until age 18.  I know for a fact that the woman remarried in Russia and had another baby (with the Russian guy).

[ECOCKS]

Phil and a couple of others, how many divorce situations do you know of overall? While I asked about how many you know that returned some information on how many stayed provides the context which is the primary point we were discussing.

[acctBill]

Phil and a couple of others, how many divorce situations do you know of overall? While I asked about how many you know that returned some information on how many stayed provides the context which is the primary point we were discussing.

Ecocks of the 25 to 30 WM/RW couples that my wife and I knew well I think 9 couples ended up divorcing.  Two FSUW returned to the FSU and one of those women later returned to western Europe.  However, over the many years of living in Europe my wife and I meant many RW, while on vacation or through work or through some other means, who had married and divorced WM, sometimes several times. 

These RW said that they would never return to the FSU for anything other than a visit and some RW wouldn't return even for a visit.  They had European born and/or raised children and/or had adjusted to a preferred European lifestyle.  The FSU had little to offer them after years in Europe.

[Phil dAmore]

E:

Of the 12 couples that Nina and I had a hand in bringing together, all of them are still married with the exception of the above - mentioned widow. 

I have an English friend who is having some major problems with his wife... she just isn't happy anywhere but Russia  because she thinks Ufa is so much better than living in a villa on the Spanish coast. 

FWIW I told him not to marry this girl because she exhibited some major emotional problems.

*sigh* No one ever listens to me...

[ECOCKS]

E:

Of the 12 couples that Nina and I had a hand in bringing together, all of them are still married with the exception of the above - mentioned widow. 

I have an English friend who is having some major problems with his wife... she just isn't happy anywhere but Russia  because she thinks Ufa is so much better than living in a villa on the Spanish coast. 

FWIW I told him not to marry this girl because she exhibited some major emotional problems.

*sigh* No one ever listens to me...

LOL! If you only know one or one and a half out of one or two breakups, that's interesting. Almost exactly opposite what I would have expected.

[GoodOlBoy]

FWIW I told him not to marry this girl because she exhibited some major emotional problems.

Sorry for the  ECOCKS.

Phil dAmore, you have obviously had a lot more exposure to native Russian women (in country) than I have.
Have you noticed a disproportionate amount of RW with noticeable "emotional" problems?
Maybe it was just my bad luck, BUT...before I met my wife I ran into a few (what I would consider) "emotionally damaged" RW over in Russia.
Just curious, thanks.

GOB

[Jumper]

*sigh* No one ever listens to me...

lol Phil..

if it makes you feel any better, i always listen to you.

Not many here have the first hand experience in Russia living long term with what i'd imagine is a typical RW
(yes i know ,i  know , lol,,but still likely typical  heh)

[Phil dAmore]

GOB:

 The emotional instability of some RW has been well documented by myself and others through the years right here on this board.  It is to be expected really.  Since very little in Russia conforms to what  is generally considered to be the norm by the western world it is not surprising that some RW are about as stable as old wet dynamite.  

Confidentiality prevents me from disclosing specific details because it involves a former client but I have had extensive experience with one particular RW who, IMO is nuttier than a fruitcake. 

AJ:  Thanks, I needed that!  


E: We are told that most cross-cultural marriages will fail but I can't say for sure.  I can only report on is my own experience.

[Faux Pas]

I listen to you too Phil. Just tossing that out.


GOB
I've met some that were way the hell out there too but, I wouldn't say any disproportionate to women in the US. Plenty here as well. For that matter plenty of AM that couldn't find their butt with both hands

[Daveman]

I listen to you too Phil. Just tossing that out.


GOB
I've met some that were way the hell out there too but, I wouldn't say any disproportionate to women in the US. Plenty here as well. For that matter plenty of AM that couldn't find their butt with both hands

Agreed on both counts.. I remember Phil's comments about Psychic Cats some time ago.. which I though was an hilarious joke.. until I met psychic cats .. never mind... I can't find my butt either.. every time I turn around it disappears (perhaps the psychic cats can lend some assistance).

I think we, as a general group, tend to think of RW as more off the wall weird simply because we are used to the bizarreness of the west while theirs seem a tad more strange at times (from our perspective), especially some of the superstitions and views of the world.. not really MORE weird, just a different weird and doesn't fly under the WTF? radar as easily

[XMan]

I really wonder if the overall success or failure rate (depending upon whether the glass is half-full or half-empty) is much different than AW+AM marriages. 

Perhaps due to being naive, when I got married I never considered divorce as much of a possibility.  After nearly 10 years, unfortunately it became reality.  Now I find myself at times borderline paranoid, which puts a helluva damper on things during those times, that's for certain. 

In the end, do statistics matter? 
After all, it's going to come down to the two people involved, and in part the situation that they find themselves in (or in other words, what unexpected life challenges that they must face together).

[DKMM]

I wondered the same thing GOB.  There might be some truth to traumatic experiences that cause life long emotional problems and its more likely to have occured in a society that experienced upheaval like the FSU.  Most of the girls I dated there seemed to have problems but that may not be more frequent than found in the USA since behavior is so different than what we are used to.  Womens behavior patterns will always be somewhat of a mystery to me... (in other words I think a lot of them are kinda crazy in both countries).  Finding a sane one was a must for me to get married and while its not quite as exciting it was definitely the right choice for me in the long run.